Jeep Liberty Diesel

1153154156158159224

Comments

  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    Winter2,
    the hole in my understanding is what it does to exhaust / air pollutants. Our engines are for emergency stand-by and run only about 100 hours a year. We haven't had to deal w/emisions either because the Nordbergs were built in 1972 or some other exemption.
  • playgabeplaygabe Member Posts: 31
    Unless these newer 4 wheel drive SUV's have something I don't know about you will also have to change your front differential to 4.11 gears to match the 4.10 in the rear!
    I read on one of the RV forums about not exceeding 70% of your total gross pulling weight to avoid this kind of problem.
    As for the Chalet Xl we have, it takes about 30 seconds to set the walls after the elec motor lifts the roof (10 seconds). Then about another 10 minutes for the built in jacks to be lowered and that's it.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    "Fischer-Tropsch" was apparently left aside because cheap crude oil gives instant profit. Money and 'cold feet' seem to be the only 'flavors' behind this. I just read that fuel taxes represented ~15% of the nation's budget, so I doubt fuel will never be cheaper. Our source of petrol comes directly from the south of France (this could also be called a monopoly) and "TOTAL" seems to be the major distiller.
    Concerning the anti-diesel mentality, we were recently told that for historical reasons most of the gasoline produced here goes to your side of the pond :blush:
    Would this have been done for balancing or book-keeping between both continents?
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    winter,
    Thank you for wanting to ship me the additive, but unfortunately today I'm pretty sure you would get into deep trouble if you wore a beard and wanted to ship me a funny looking liquid :sick:
    In fact, I already profit from an equivalent combination of additives in the fuel I buy. If I buy the cheaper diesel fuel (1 Euro/liter) and put the additive in it, it comes to the same cost... (now down to 1.17 Euro/liter)

    I made a little research concerning 'a' common cetane improver. This is a nitrous ester or 'energetic material' called "triethyleneglycol dinitrate (TEGDN)" also used in solid rocket fuel (propergol). TEGDN simply introduces more heat during the diesel combustion cycle without any deflagration. This is the official choice of the EU (doc#= 2000/C 241/01) where it is said that TEGDN is used to shift/adapt the ignition timing of modern diesel engines.
  • mngolfermngolfer Member Posts: 18
    Dealer had the Jeep for 9 days for the torque converter repair. Now the transmission has a hard clunk when slowing down at about 10 mph. Looks like back to the dealer again. This is what it was doing before they supposedly fixed it.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I also hear a hard clunk since day one! In my case it's just the normal play of the transmission. Do you hear it when you disengage at standstill?
  • mngolfermngolfer Member Posts: 18
    Have not noticed that. This is the wife's car and I get to drive it once in a while. Does not happen all of the time. First seemed to be when starting out in the morning or after the vehicle had not been driven for several hours.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    When you rapidly come to a stop from driving at 30 mph or more, the transmission doesn't have enough time to downshift smoothly using all gears and remain under tension. This is when I hear the big bang! The rear transmission shaft is left relaxed just before coming back into 1st gear and rotates in the opposite direction of it's previous tension. It's usually a 1/4 turn backlash. When the truck ages you can feel it in your feet :shades:
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    thstranger: When I check it "cold" with the engine NOT running it shows trans fluid 3/4 of an inch above the full mark. However, I believe that the engine MUST be running, and look at the trans dipsticjk when you first start up. When warm ours is reght at the full line.
    Hope this gives you some help.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Winter2: If neither of you could hear the engine them, here are some reasons why. 1.The engine was off. 2.Both of you need to replace the battires in your hearing aids. 3.The engine noise from the freeway next to uall was so loud you couldn't hear your engine run. 4.Maybe his muffler was off on the Lexus?
    We often park in a multi- level parking garage, and I can hear our engine 200 feet away! Quiet, this engine is NOT! However the smell is not present except on a really cold morning after sitting over night, and then for a brief moment when starting. As for slow, I consider that this is a 4 cyclender. engine, with only 160 hp, it does pretty much ok, but nothing to write home about. Towing is where this engine shines.
    We bought this CRD mainly for better fuel mileage. Last time we got 28 mpg!!! Which was on Phillips 66 diesel.
    Give some thought on this, and give it a laugh!

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    synlubes. Wow, that's not good! My first thought is the PCM, or the ECM. But maybe as simple as the nut behind the wheel. I am only kidden, I think this is a dealer fix thing. Wish you luck, Mike.

    Farout
  • thstrangerthstranger Member Posts: 60
    Thank you, Farout for your reply....I do feel better knowing that when you checked your crd cold with engine not running it was above the two "hot" holes...as mine is!! I have noticed that the "hard shift" going into 3rd gear has became a little smoother....
    Thanks again,
    Skeeter
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    With the ignition off it is wide open-it moves fairly easily when pushed to closed and then goes to open when released.
    When you shut off the ignition it is being held open electrically-you can't force it shut. It just hums until it times out.

    There is a bit of oil in the hose and on the flapper, not great amounts after 53000 miles.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    winter, I think part of your NOx / nitrates question is explained here:
    http://www.epa.gov/OTAQ/guidance/420b04005.pdf#search="CETANE IMPROVER"
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Farout, I wonder if yours is particularly noisy. Mine is not audible from 50 feet away even in quiet conditions, and I'm young with good hearing. Fuel type seems to vary the noise level - the right mix of biodiesel (around 10%) and premium petrodiesel (BP or Meijer) makes mine very quiet, no louder than a gasoline engine at idle. On the other hand if 100% low-grade truckstop diesel is in the tank, it's significantly louder.
  • hogwild1961hogwild1961 Member Posts: 26
    I was wondering why cant u just clean the egr valve...On my Lincoln it would stick open and i would take it off clean it then it was fine for another 10k or more

    Thanks :)
  • storageguystorageguy Member Posts: 30
    Does anyone know where the Liberty diesel engine was manufacted. I have heard Frane, and also Germany.
    My 06 has 23,000KM or close to 14,000 miles. Replace ECR valve under warranty, other than that a fantastic little SUV. Canadian Ken
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Member Posts: 253
    The dealer won't clean it out when it is faster and more profitable for them to just charge a new one out and have warranty or the customer pay for it. When these egrs fall out of warranty someone will figure a way to service or rebuild them and save money. I used to clean the carbon build up out of the old egr valve's orifice on the gas engines of the 80's. I didn't like spending 70 to 150 every 10K miles either. They used to stick open and the car would stall or stick close and the engine would ping.
  • arvmanarvman Member Posts: 95
    A.V. Motori builds the diesel in Italy.this is a widely used engine in Europe.It is a proven motor,problem is all the emissions devices attached to it and some fuel quality issues in north america which hopefully will be sorted out soon.This is a good forum,check in once in a while.I'm out in Victoria,had the c.r.d. just over a year and quite happy despite a few hiccups,cheers...
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Cute on all accounts!

    I add enough cetane improver to raise the cetane past fifty or fifty one. Next, being in Florida it is rather warm here so that helps too.

    I took my CRD to the dealer this morning for the ball joint recall. The service advisor did not realize my Jeep was a diesel until he opened the hood. It is that quiet.

    As to 28 MPG, not bad. I have gotten 30+ but was moving along at a constant 62 MPH. That is a sweet spot for my CRD when it comes to fuel economy. As to performance it is pretty good, not a rocket, but it does get out of it's own way. Fifty to seventy-five performance in OD (without downshifting)is very fast and there are not flat spots during acceleration.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    This engine comes from our friends at V.M. Motori in Italy. It was once a wholly owned subsidiary of Detroit Diesel but in the recent past was purchased by Daimler. They have been making diesels since 1947 and have a good reputation. Chrysler (in Europe) started using their engines sometime in the late 1980's or early 1990's.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Hi storageguy,
    Do you still want to know where the plant is and what it looks like? You can use the following coordinates in the 'goto' index of "Google Earth":
    44°44'16.48"N, 11°17'43.52"E
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    arvaman: V M Motori builds this engine. Web site is
    www.vmmotori.it/en/index.jsp I have e-mailed them and got a 9 page response, good luck.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    thstranger: The Tec at YARK says a hard shift with the 545 RFE is good, he is more concerned about a super smooth shift . A smooth soft shift is using up the clutches, so Dan says. Mine shifts very solid and firm.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    winter2: By current Cetane level of 42 it would take 3 quarts (at least) to raise the Cetane to a little over 46. that would add $21. more for each 20.5 gallon tank. That makes J-4 look cheap!
    I have seen more than 5 CRD's and all sound the same. Your's must be very quiet. However, with B-20 it is much quieter, but rotten fuel mpg. Our 3.7 Liberty can jump ahead of the CRD, and leave it far behind. I consider the 3.7 pretty slow. You are right the CRD is not a rocket, it is not even a good cherry bomb either. The CRD is a good 4 cyc. and that's all.
    The CRD is lucky to do the 1/4 mile in under 12 seconds. IT takes 17 seconds to go 75 mph according to Jeep.

    Farout
  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    To be exact, it took 17.5 Seconds at a tad under 75mph to cover the 1/4 and I am much sicker then anyone in here so I truly know this. I raced mine at the U.S. Diesel Nationals back in September of this year.
    Ran like a 3 legged dog, so anyone that thinks this is fast might be sicker then me.
  • turbledieselturblediesel Member Posts: 28
    Benn awhile;

    Ever since my new EGR valve at 16000 miles the thing has lost any sense of having a turbo and never... NEVER breaks 20 MPG in 2wd. I suppose it'll drop to 15MPG in 4wd. It won't pass well anymore even when downshifting first. Took it to the five star dealer in Anchorage for a tru week long hassle. It had no codes and seemed fine in a test drive so the hood never got popped. The Anchorage five star dealer couldn't get their computer working, threw my ride and plans away , stuck me with the rental car bill after I got home 170 miles away, and stole my fleece vest.

    If you live in AK don't buy a chrysler/jeep product.

    Turblediesel
  • boonecrdboonecrd Member Posts: 1
    2005 CRD w/ 10,000 miles, and I would like to start my own maintenance (too many misinformed mechanics to trust w/ my little diesel) Can anyone recommend/share a schedule for oil/filter changes and what type/brand products they use for this maintenance. I do live in a cold mountainous environment, if this makes any difference. Really appreciate the help. By the way, we have a new biodiesel co-op in my town. I'm told I'll need to change filters more often when running on biodiesel because of its increased solvent properties...any help in this area is also much appreciated.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Your question(s) will give you 20,000 answers from about twelve different people. I will try to help based on my experience with this diesel and one I owned many years ago.

    1. I generally do not follow the manufacturers schedules. They may have done the testing but I feel they still push the oil too far considering domestic diesel is borderline garbage. I run oil in my CRD for no more than 5,000 miles and my driving is about 40% high speed and 60% city. If I drove more highway and less city, then I would probably take it to 6,000 miles but no more than that.
    2. As to brand of oil and viscosity of the oil, stay away from Mobil 1 0W-40 unless you have your fuel shipped over from the EU. As I have learned, cetane will not improve significantly with the introduction of ULSD so blowby contamination will still be a problem. Use an oil that is CI-4+ rated like Shell Rotella (synthetic), Amsoil 5W-40(there is a new one available that is CJ rated) or Mobil 1 5W-40 Delvac (synthetic). As to oil filters, WIX is quite good, as are those from Amsoil (Donaldson). I am sure there are other good brands out there.
    3. As to the use of biodiesel, be careful. Talk to people who have used this brand of biodiesel in their diesels before trying it in your CRD. Until biodiesel quality is more consistent, I would not use more than B5 (one gallon/tank). I have tried up to B20 and frankly the engine was not all that much smoother or quieter than when I used B5 or B10.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Farout,

    The cetane improver I use costs me about $2.50 per fill up. The detergent I use has some cetane improver in it and with the additional cetane improver, it adds up.

    As to performance, as I said before it is adequate for the job. Since I have added the K&N air filter, it is a bit quicker off the line. As to the quarter mile, the CRD beat the 3.7 by one or two tenths of a second. I have the original Car & Driver article in MD.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Nice to hear from ya again. If they did NOT replace the PCM when they replaced the EGR, you may well replace it again several more times. This is what the USA volume dealer does and requires it done when a EGR goes bad.

    Farout
  • arvmanarvman Member Posts: 95
    I didn't know the C.R.D. was supposed to be a quarter mile racing vehicle.Is there an underground club racing these things or did some of us buy them for fuel economy?When it comes to quarter mile,there is no replacement for displacement but mine is only a 2.8,guess I'll stick to the street.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    The oil change is extremely easy on the CRD. Just make sure you have an 8mm allen wrench type bit that goes on a socket wrench. Oil drains out pretty fast so have a big catch pan. Also, make sure you find the little copper washer on the drain plug - it is very thin and falls off easily, but you will want to reuse it.

    I use Shell Rotella-T synthetic 5W40. It has a CI-4+ rating and is available at Walmart at around $17/gallon (4 quarts). You will need 6.2 quarts per fill. I think Mobil 1 5W40 is as good, but not any better, and it's much harder to find. I agree with Winter2 that I would not use 0W40 from Mobil. I would consider Redline or Amsoil if I got it for the same price as those two; I see no reason to seek it out as the CRD is very happy on the Rotella-T, and I expect that other systems will fail long, long before the internal engine components wear out.

    I use a WIX filter; I believe the NAPA Gold filter is the same thing. Quality part, readily available and inexpensive. If you don't use that brand I would use OEM. I wouldn't use common cheap brands like Fram.

    I had first oil change at 2400 miles and since then have been aiming for 7500 miles between changes. I do not think this is excessive given the oil type and quantity. Obviously you won't hurt it to change more often, you will only spend more money. I would change more often if I was towing, doing offroading, spending lots of time on dirt or otherwise putting serious strains on the vehicle. My CRD sees fairly light use with a lot of highway miles.

    I use B20 every couple of tanks, and my CRD runs noticeably better on it. Obviously not everyone here has had the same experience. I believe biodiesel quality does vary significantly, and co-ops are iffy in my view. On the other hand if the co-op has a chemical engineer and is testing that the biodiesel meets ASTM spec, you may be ok. I would research thoroughly before using their fuel. I buy my biodiesel from only two suppliers who are both fuel suppliers in farm areas and carrying biodiesel to appeal to their local soybean farmers.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Farout, a Corvette Z-06 is lucky to do the 1/4 mile in under 12 seconds! I think the actual time is in the 17's. However, I have personally found it quite peppy and never slow for any reasonable driving use.

    Likewise, I think your local B20 must be poor quality. My mileage is the same on B20 as on petrodiesel. There appears to be a LOT of range of biodiesel fuel quality.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I have 52,500 miles on the Jeep now.
    I just rotated my tires (again) and did the visual inspection of disk brake wear and wheel pits. The front disks should last another ~20,000 miles and pads have above 1/4" of material left. Rear disks are normally corroded considering we use salt during winter. And that's it :shades: The rest is just gently aging :shades: :shades:

    I'm a bit confused about you guys having to change the lower ball joints on recently built rigs. Is it really needed or just a service habit on this truck? The service manual claims 1.5mm play is the maximum acceptable play. I can only measure 1/3 of that value and the skirt protecting the grease packing is still very soft. :confuse:
  • thstrangerthstranger Member Posts: 60
    That is very good to hear....mine seems to have eased up a bit going into 3rd...Thank you for the up-dated info. Farout.....I sure wish the ULSD would get here soon....
    Thanks again,
    Skeeter
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Caribou,

    The ball joint replacement is not part of normal maintenance. Daimler-Chrysler has done a recall on this part for a second time because of failure issues based on a design flaw or flaws and probably a part assembly issue.

    I did the recall yesterday and the new ball joints are different from the old ones. They seem to be made more stoutly, have a larger skirt, and are packed to the top with grease. The original ball joints had a somewhat smaller skirt and the that skirt was translucent. I was able to see a grease level in those, about 2/3 full. It would be nice to have a zerk fitting on the ball joints and on the tie rod ends.

    As to aging gently, are you talking about your CRD or are you talking about yourself? :)
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    Thanks for the information, web sites and even google earth location. storage-guy
  • indianrefiningindianrefining Member Posts: 102
    I've got a question: Are Liberty owners supposed to be individually notifed by mail regarding the ball joint recall, and does the recall apply to all 2005 Liberties? I have still (as of 12 October) received no notification.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The recall applies to all of them, regardless of when they were built.

    You can still go to your dealer and have the recall done even if you have not received a notice. I did this yesterday. I suggest you make an appointment to make sure they have the parts on hand.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Winter2,
    I have more articulation issues than my Jeep has! :P
    I wish I had a few zerk fittings for myself.

    Rotating those 5 big wheels after a long day's work is not done for free anymore and I still use the cross tool, not the impact air gun. I'm always afraid of damaging wheel studs. Just a thought: for those who are not 8 foot tall, wait until the truck is on it's wheels to remove and put back the spare wheel. I just discovered this because the spare wheel mounting plate was 5 feet off the ground last night :sick:

    I found no rust spots, simply nothing to mention or complain about. BTY, has anyone showed up with a greasable ball joint?
    The US service manual calls for greasing different joints. Where are they?
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    arvman: Someone about a week ago stated how powerful (speed wise & fast) this CRD was. I just pointed out that our CRD was adaquit, but mothing to brag about. I also said that our 3.7 2006 Liberty was faster on the get go. That too was not agreed with either. I think that the Liberty is good for what it is supposed to do. Racing is NOT in the list, that's as far as I am concerned any way.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    caribou1: I called several places to see if I could get the ball joints with the zerk fittings. Only DCX had the fittings, and no noticeable changes after they replaced all 4. Maybe France has not pushed DCX to get your ball joints replaced. I also did not notice ant difference in how the Jeep drove either.
    The joints the manual refers to is the U joints if they have any, that's what a Tec said. In other words...he did not know either!

    Farout
  • zoomy2zoomy2 Member Posts: 50
    Playgabe,

    I was planning on both differentials, plus adding an ARB air locker to the front. At a lower ground speed the engine will work less when pulling. It will also drop my overall mileage, that;s why I'm going to try a set of smaller OD tires first.

    I like the Chalet esp the XL model with the queen bed option, we just didn't want a pop-up type camper and the 18' Zoom fit our long-term needs.

    On my shudder issues since they only happen after passing or slowing down after a quick acceleration I think it could be the fact that the transmission and TC are in "lock-up" mode. When decelerating the transmission is trying to turn the engine and the computer sense this and shuts fuel off to individual cylinders to control over reving the motor. When one does a gentle acceration and then a gentle decceleration I don't notice it.

    I have almost 28K on mine and am having the fuel filter and an oil change done tomorrow by the dealer. I have them use the Mobil 1 0W40. The ball stud are also being changed as mine is one the list to be done but I haven't receive any notification by mail, but its in the dealer's computer to be done.

    I have had the one transmission filter changed because the fluid would drain back and the libby wouldn't move until it filled back up, this was under warranty. My CRD is wanting to have all of the problems I have read about here, after the warranty runs out, this way I can personelly pay for the repairs.

    My biggest fear it turbo failure, I always idle the engine for at least 1 minute, after pulling the trailer its at least 15 minutes and re fueling after highway driving I leave it running. I have had the engine on for 10 hours straight during some our travels. :)
  • fustfust Member Posts: 29
    IN THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS I HAVE NOTICED THAT WHEN COMING TO A HARD STOP IT FEELS LIKE THE TRANSMISSION OR OTHER RELATED ITEM KICKS BACK,ALSO IF I COME TO A SLOW ROLLING STOP IT DOSEN"T HAPPEN BUT AFTER I RELEASE THE BRAKE PEDAL AND IN MOTION THE TRANNY FEELS LIKE IT KICKS IN. DOES ANY ONE ELSE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM OR I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY IDEAS.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Yesterday, I spoke with the Shell diesel fuel guru on the phone. What he told me was just as disappointing as the other refiners.

    The cetane of ULSD will be a two to three points higher than present day LSD. Shell also has a premium diesel with a cetane of forty-five. In ULSD form, it will remain at forty-five.

    This guy told me that none of the refiners are willing to make a fuel with a cetane of fifty because of the cost, and lower yield (amount) obtained in the refining process. The refiners all adhere to ASTM-975 as closely as possible in order to maximize output and minimize manufacturing costs.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Here is a UK link to european diesel: (it's in english)
    http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7002526

    It mentions 55% cetane in ULSD instead of the normal value of 51%. Now when you are talking 40 or 45% cetane in the US, is this expressed in another form such as per volume or a concentration? The difference is just too great.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Caribou,

    Cetane is not expressed as "%" but as a plain number. I believe that cetane is viewed the same way here as it is in Europe.

    In the EU there are significantly more diesel powered cars than here in the United States so the quality of diesel fuel in Europe is more important. Higher cetane has multiple benefits, including better performance and lower emissions. In the United States, diesel is relegated to industrial fuel status and that means big tractor-trailer vehicles and other industrial uses.

    If you want to find out how much of a difference using U.S. diesel makes, bring your CRD over here and run a few tankfuls of our garbage. You will notice a difference in the form of more vibration, more noise, more soot and less economy. You will think something is wrong with your CRD.

    Why do you think I add detergents and cetane improvers? I want that 51 cetane performance. I have no vibration, almost no noise, and even less soot when I use these products.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Member Posts: 253
    I had the same problem when my battery was failing. With mine the problem got worse until the battery didn't hold enough of a charge to start the engine after sitting a couple days. I fought with the dealer and they finally checked the battery. After they changed the battery the shifting issue slowly went away. You trans controller keeps going back into learning mode. This trans has an adaptive mode for the first 500 miles after the controller gets forced flashed. This can happen if your battery goes bad.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Member Posts: 253
    For a heavy little suv this unit is fast. Most little sports coupes like the BMW's with the 3 liter 6 cylinder engine do the 1/4 mile in 14+/-.5 seconds. Where the
    CRD is quickest is off the line up until 30 mph. But if you want to go fast by a corvette. This engine can handle another 50 hp and 100 lbs of torque just by reprogramming the PCM. But it won't pass emissions and the mpg's will drop.
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