I also had a problem with the normal hitch ball being located under the spare tire. At first I removed the tire. Then I tried attaching the ball to the trailer and backing into the receiver. That worked untill I had to do it alone. When I took the vehicle into my favorate trailer dealer to have the brake controller put on I inquired about an extension. The one they sold reduced the allowable tung weight by 10%. But instead they found a insert with a slightly longer bar that solved the problem with no reduction in weight limits.
You'll have plenty of power. However, over heating will be a problem if you pull in 70F+ temperatures. I have a 4500# Rockwood Roo and mine still overheats. All updates applied. Waiting for next Spring to finalize on an outstanding arbitration hearing in my local State.
The information below was copied directly from the London Times auto help section. I don't know enough about bio diesel to comment one way or another. So its just FYI:
"Today’s fuels are produced to very tightly defined specifications to make sure they can meet the requirements of modern engines, minimise pollution and give optimum performance. To make sure that the fuel you buy has the properties and additives your engine needs, the specifications are defined in a set of British and European standards. By law all fuel sold must meet these standards. Why all the fuss about specifications and standards? Well, the most obvious purpose of fuel in a car is to burn and provide energy for the engine, but all fuels – petrol or diesel – are a complex mixture of chemicals with a variety of properties. Some of these properties are useful and manufacturers can exploit them before the fuel is burnt. Other properties are not at all useful and have to be overcome. The main useful property is that, being oil based, fuels can act as a lubricant for the very accurately manufactured injection equipment. The lubricating property of diesel and petrol is a part of the standard, so engine designers can rely on the fuel lubricating their pumps and injectors to have the right lubricating qualities to keep things running smoothly. Additives may be included to ensure the fuel meets the standard.
The speed at which the fuel burns is another important factor which needs to be accurately controlled – this is indicated by the Octane rating for petrol or Cetane rating for diesel. If it burns too quickly, the engine will be overstressed and knock; if it burns too slowly you have a serious drop in engine efficiency and the exhaust valves are liable to burn out. Once again, engine designers can rely on a consistent rate of burning when they are specifying things like injector or ignition timing and they can programme the engine management system to optimise performance, economy and emissions.
Then there are the properties which need to be overcome, chief among which is the tendency for traces of heavier oils in the fuel to form deposits where you really don’t want them. These deposits stop the fuel atomising correctly, again reducing fuel efficiency. To avoid this, detergents are added which continually clean the deposits away.
In summary, manufacturers spend millions of pounds on research to ensure that the fuel you buy will run your engine at maximum efficiency. Oil companies in turn spend millions ensuring that the fuel on every filling station forecourt consistently meets the standards the manufacturers rely on and a whole department of government officials carry out checks to make sure everyone’s doing their job properly.
So, you can take advantage of all this research and regulation by filling up with fuel at a filling station, or you can simply tip some old vegetable oil in the tank and hope that it will have the right lubricating qualities, that it will burn at the right speed and then strip the injection system down from time to time in the hope that you’ll clean up all the deposits before they do permanent damage – the choice is yours!"
I actually towed my Palomino Stampede 17 (GVWR 3850) with my CRD, I had no problems but did not go far. I did have to take the spare off as well. Is anyone using sway control or a weight distribution hitch for their trailer. If so, is the receiver extender still necessary?
It was my understanding from discussions with the dealer and the servicemen, that a tranny cooler was not necessary on the CRD? Any one else experience this?
After 20 years, finally got a bespoken vehicle, a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD with 5 speed auto and Selec Track. I now have 4000 miles on it.Far too many problems have arisen. The major concern is Mileage: I got this vehicle and paid extra for the Diesel engine to get good mileage. I HAVE NOT!! Please note I have never had a problem achieving and exceeding EPA Mileage ratings. The EPA sticker says I should get 21 MPG in city and 26 MPG on the highway. I get 19-20 in the city; but about 21 on the highway, in the upper midwest (Replace upper midwest with FLAT!!). I got 21 coming to Minneapolis from Kansas City hauling a 5x8 U-Haul, so my mileage loaded remains about nthe same.The dealer looks at me like i am speaking Klingon with a Farsi accent. Has anyone hade a mileage problem and solved it?? What are the major factors involved in mileage variations?? Remember, I am on 65 with speed control on relatively flat terrain.I see posts from people who are getting 27-29 MPG. How are you achieving this?? Is fuel a factor?? No oil company publishes their Cetane ratings. Are they available from the government or any reliable source; and if so; where??I understand In Minnesota we have Biodiesel mixed with the natural petroleum distillate derivative. Cannot get any facts and figures as to how much this would erode mileage. Are injectors, electronic engine setup major factors?? Would appreciate as many hard numbers as you can supply with your posts Thanks
After 20 years, finally got a bespoken vehicle, a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD with 5 speed auto and Selec Track. I now have 4000 miles on it. Far too many problems have arisen. I have a oil consumption problem. It burned a half quart in the first 500 miles, the dealer topped it off. It burned another quart, the dealer changed the oil at N/C and is doing an oil consumption test. The dealer says 1 quart per 1000 miles is ok. If I had known Jeep was selling me a worn out engine I would not have bought it. Has anyone else had oil consumption problems? Who solved it and how? Please provide as many facts and figures as possible I am getting tired of service department waiting rooms. Thanks
There could be regional differences in fuel, but only one that I'm aware of and that is the distribution of ULSD fuel. BP Diesel Supreme is what I use, and it has a cetane value of 45. I also add Diesel boost about 6oz per tank full which boosts cetane to about 50. European Diesel is a minimum of 50 cetane and it is ULSD. Also, winterized Diesel which I'm sure gets delivered to MN from the refiner/distributor earlier than the rest of us tends to slightly fade MPG in winter months. Oil consumption for the first 1K ~ 8K is normal until the engine gets a chance to break in. Diesels have a longer break in period. Also, don't let your CRD idle long in those MN winters. The Garret VNT15 Turbo requires a minimum amt of boost pressure to maintain the condition of the seals. Extended periods of idle (20+ minutes)will cause a certain amount of oil consumption that will clog the catalytic converter. Some owners have complained about the CRD running poorly after a long idle (i.e. chugging). The CRD gets it's maximum MPG when it is operating in the "sweet spot". Operating under peak conditions is at constant speed and 1800rpm. This is where the engine "breathes" at it's best and is delivering the max. torque and max MPG. Depending if your tranny O.D. is working properly 1800rpm = 60mph~ 63mph. This engine does NOT like high rpm's nor does it like to ingest high revs. When I'm forced to go out of that sweet spot (i.e. 2100rpm = 75mph) my MPG drops to 22 MPG. My 2005 CRD with just over 6K miles makes weekly business trips between Cincinnati and Indianapolis (FLAT TERRAIN). My MPG is 28. Yes, I drive 60~63mph. Have the service dept checkout all the hose connections, some have been delivered loose from the factory in Toledo. Especially any piping to and from the turbo as this had cause loss of pressure to and from the turbo/engine for optimum performance.
I'm getting 20-21 in town and anywhere from 25-30 on the highway. The truck is more variable with highway figures and a number of factors come into play. The most important is speed. The EPA figures are calculated a certain way, I don't remember exactly what the test is, but I believe that for highway figures it involves AC off, a speed around 60 and warm ambient temperatures. If any of these variables are different, your mileage may vary. I have been able to beat the 26 on a few occasions. I have 9000 miles on mine and the mileage is now stable. It had been steadily improving. I also live in Minnesota and burn the same fuel you do. I drove from the Twin Cities to the Grand Rapids area to fish last summer (without a trailer which is a wind tunnel nightmare) at around 60 miles per hour. On the way back, I drove down 35W and went 70. I did the entire 500+ mile trip on one tank of fuel and achieved a solid 29 MPG. Ok well I refueled in Forest Lake. The weather was around 70F and there were no stiff headwinds. On another trip to Marshall, again on a single tank round trip, I got 30. On that trip I left it at 57, at the bottom of the gearing for Overdrive and didn't stop. But there was not a big wind that time and it was in the 80s.
Recently, I made the same trip to Marshall and got 23. We had a stiff western headwind, I drove 60-65 and the temperature was 12F. By that time of course we were burning the diesel fuel that was winterized. I do not get the same mileage with the winterized fuel which I think we start to see by October 1st.
As much as I dislike getting worse mileage for part of the year, I'm glad I have this "arctic diesel" because it is 3F and by the time I get ready to go this morning it will be an even 0F. I have no trouble starting in this weather. Thing fires up like a champ.
Hope this is helpful. Don't know what to say about the oil issue. I got mine new, drove it 6200 miles and it was down 1/2 quart. Changed the oil, I am still reading full at 9000 miles. I think you have an issue there but not in the mileage department.
A woman in my department at work owns the same vehicle as mine but with a 3.7L V6. She is getting 14 in town with the cold weather and rarely cracks 20 on the highway. I think the aerodynamics are a huge factor when you hit the freeways. She rarely beats the EPA figures on this truck but on her Volkwagen, she does beat the EPA figures. (She was really complaining about her crap mileage with her gas engine and asked about the diesel when I pulled up next to her in the garage). I think it is relative.
Hope you are enjoying your truck otherwise. I really love mine and get a kick out of having a diesel.
I thought I write in was just looking under Jeep and found oil dripping out of turbo houseing don't know if this is problem or normal.I have Lawyers writeing to CH to see if they will fix this Jerking and Jerking Jeep. I Pass two cars and slowed down and it even Jerked at 63. I am on third EGR from star which is working so far I have about 5000 miles of trouble miles so far. Have not heard from CH it doesn't look good. Went ahead and brought Wife new camry the Jeep will be mine headache now,the way its been running I didn't fill safe to even let her drive I don't trust the Jeep period. Even if I can get it fix I still will trade sooner or later. :lemon:
Hi, I just want to make you aware, in case you were'nt, that you need to be careful with regards to the size/length of the travel trailer you buy. It has been the experience of those in my RV club, that towing with a short wheel base vehicle has some serious pitfalls, one should be familiar with. If you plan on buy something huge, i.e.: over 24 feet, with that wheel base, you will have serious issues with sway. Even with friction sway bars or the newer anti-sway towing systems, the larger than the tow vehicle trailer will cause a ride, wilder than you will find at most amusement parks. Select a travel trailer that is not too much to handle, control wise, for the CRD. It may have a rating of 5000 lbs., but that does'nt mean you need to match the weight of the trailer to the rating on the tow vehicle. Good luck and have a fun and safe time.
Hey Guy! I just wanted to point out that the CRD was not as rushed to market as many may think. The CRD was in production and selling in Europe for two or three years prior to the North American intro of the vehicle. In Europe the Liberty is marketed as the Cherokee. So, even though there surely are some differences between the Euro and North Am. versions, I would have thought that the bugs had been worked out! :confuse:
From everything I have been able to read the 5K rating is more for the vehicle than the engine. The engine could tow greater loads but the frame size and wheel base are the limiting factors.
2.8L is a new engine. 2.5L CRD is the one that was offered in Europe for the past couple years and now the 2.8L replaced the 2.5L in Europe and at the same time is offered in North America with modifications.
My recent mpg is 19 mpg or just under for majority of city with some short highway driving and 22.7 mpg for 325 mile trip majority highway at 61 mph with some towns to go through. Previously I was obtaining 26 to 28 mpg on the 325 mile trip and 23 mpg on my city/hwy commute. A couple of weeks ago I two instances of the engine running very rough as if it were on two cyl i/o four. I suspected the EGR had failed. Dealership on last Monday diagnosed codes for "multi cyl misfire" and re-flashed the ECU. No other problems found. Extensive test drive after and mpg was 27 plus on hwy. (mpg computations are miles driven vs. gallons of fuel used, except for the 27 mpg test drive number where I used the EVIC numbers, FWIW the EVIC has been within 1 mpg of my calculations per tank of fuel so it is fairly accurate)
Right now I have no codes and I very much want to determine what is the cause for poor mpg. Winterized fuel? I doubt it. Cold weather? Maybe, though I have owned several other diesels and never experienced this type of drop in performance. EGR? Even w/o a code or CEL I still suspect the EGR is part of my problem.
I have sympathy for those who are not obtaining the mpg they would like too as I was obtaining excellent mpg and it was like turning a light switch off when my mpg when off a cliff.
Could you please give a detailed break down of the incentives you received for you '05 CRD. I thought I did good with EP and $1000 cash back, but your deal beats that by about $2300 (about the amount of the Miles of Freedom gas card).
So far though, no problems for me and I have a build date in late June of '05. If the EGR valve goes, then it goes and gets replaced under warranty, but I like the having the opportunity to own such a rare and unique Jeep.
Mine is an 05 with a July build date. No functional problems, MPG problems or oil problems, but I am experiencing the brake noise while backing in the cold, I have never heard it during forward motion. So far, I am happy
Walmart used to carry this oil in 5 qt containers. It is now discontinued in my area Wmarts. What are other sources of this oil for a decent price? Was under $20 ($19.97) at Walmart for the 5 qt pkg.
Since this is my first diesel and I am not familiar with diesels, do I need to add an additive to my diesel fuel during these winter months? If so, what?
Also, my Liberty is a 2005. I currently have 16,000 miles! Got it Easter weekend of this year. Had to have the EGR valve replaced at 10,000 miles. A few other problems such as the brake noise when backing up.
My wife has been driving with the jeep more than I lately and complaining about reduced mileage. Due to cold weather and winter fuel I decided to grin and put up with it. Today I went alone for trip down state and even on 131, the best she would was 22-23 mpg. Sooo, I finally got to a clear stretch without snow or ice, put her out of OD and gave it hell. Nearing red line, I backed off. Went down to 45 and repeated the experience. I then set it at 60 mph cruise and went the rest of the trip with an average of 28.5 mpg. On the return trip, I brought the rpm's up once, dropped back to 62 and averaged 30.3 mpg on return trip. The car has 3600 mi. I found on the level I could get 31.5 but hills dominate here in n. MI. I do use power sirvice plus working with another a fuel catalyst which seems to be working. Wonder what it will do when I get to GA and buy summer blend and suck in warm air? Happy sailing BR
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question thoroughly. This is the type of response I was hoping I would get. Lots of good info, some things to check that I didn't know about. The 1800rpm sweet spot has been mentioned several times in the forums, would like to know where this comes from. Sounds like you would need access to some engine test performance curves to be able to know this. Is this kind of information available anywhere?
i KNOW THE Indianapolis-Cincinnati terrain. Was just there before thanksgiving. Stayed at my son in Laws parents in cincinnati, went to the air force museum in Dayton three days straight. Awesome!! Thanks again.
Thanks for your post. What does the high rpm do? Blow out carbon buildup? Clean injectors? Just started trying Power Service. Thanks again for your input.
I had a problem in August with my jeep leaking oil from the turbo. The first dealer I took it to get fix said my turbo was out. Well I told them that it wasn't and they got mad and told me to take it back to where I bought it. So I did and they got ahold of tech support and they said no it was not a bad turbo. All they needed to do was take off the lines and clean them up and put them back on and tighten them up. Since then no leaks and no jerking. I did have the jerking with it when the lines were loose and oil was a leaking. I have 16,000 miles on the jeep now. And I do need an EGR valve.
Here are the stats on the CRD engine from the VM Motori web site. I have not seen this posted anywhere, so I thought I'd post it for those interested. Ciao!!!
R 428 DOHC 2800 cc - 4 Cyl. - 16 Valve
The ever increasing popularity of the diesel engine and the increasingly frequent requests for larger capacity engines suitable for heavy passenger vehicle applications has led VM to further evolve the R 425 DOHC. Increasing the capacity of this engine to 2.8 L was a relatively simple task thanks to the standard wet liners. This means that only changes to the liner, piston and camshaft were necessary. The result is the R 428 DOHC, an engine which offers all of the features and benefits of the R 425 DOHC plus an increase of over 10% more torque at lower revs. Featuring the same 4 cylinder, four valves per cylinder layout with the latest in common rail injection technology and double balance shaft off the crank in the oil sump, this engine is ideally suited to heavyweight Minivans and SUVs. Additional technical features are as per the R 425 DOHC and include finger followers on the camshaft and cooled EGR. An optional VGT turbocharger may also be fitted and increases the power output to a class-leading 177 CV.
Engine R 428 DOHC Displacement 2766 cc Cylinders 4 in line Valves 16 Injection Common rail CP3 Max power 130 kW/3800 rpm Torque 410 Nm/1800 rpm Weight 220 kg Emissions EURO 3
I am doing what others suggested, blowing it's nose? I assume it clears the EGR which was obviously getting clogged??? I tried this before half heartedly with no real results. But we have been driving under 50 for the most part due to ice and snow everyday. I got ticked yesterday and was more agressive. It worked as I just re-set the on board comp. The catalyst had no effect on mileage until I did this either. We are about to head south and I think we can achieve the 30mpg at least. On my return trip, I entered the expressway, took it out of OD ran the speed way up, dropped back and achieved 31.5 on the flats. Anyhow it was fun to act like a teenager again and out accelerate a few other cars.
The "pushing to the red zone" of the diesel engine over here is done by people who drive in the heavy traffic. Those who drive on the highway with the smaller engines don't need to do this. I now have over 40,000 miles on mine and it runs like new, except for mileage that stays at 11L/100Km (21.4 USmpg). I'm beginning to think that my BFG T/As are absorbing more energy than the stock tires, even being smaller in size. Under pouring rain these tires give a fantastic grip, even at 70 mph (our local traffic speed when it rains). The only thing I can complain about is: Why did we have to wait so many years to find such a rig ?
Glad you found the info useful. Here is more information from VM Motori SPA in Cento Italy where the engine is manufactured. This is a very solid engine, however most of the posts on issues have been with the "American-ization" of the ECM module and the programatic software control of the EGR valve (opening and closing) for the reduction of NOx to pass our EPA. link title The issues are not with the EGR valve or gasket itself, but how the air and pressure breaths through the system. If there is not enough air pressure/oxygen per stroke, along with the oxygen level with the re-mixed exhaust then the soot tends to clog the EGR gate. This is why you see posts of owners "blowing the nose" of the CRD by stepping on the throttle. (Not recommended in my book).Once the EGR gate is fouled, then it throws a fault code (check engine) light. The technicans these days are "component swappers" and will replace out the EGR valve and gasket because it's fouled and never address the source of the problem. The source is that the control module needs to have the appropriate amount of pressure/oxygen moving per stroke through the EGR valve. This can be done with a software modification to the engine control module (ECM).
Hi Minnesota ! , There will be many suggestions on getting the most out of your libby. I have been getting 26-31 mpg out of mine. Which I feel is on average higher than everyone else. I have no garantee's,as I don't know your libbies mechanical condition,but we can try.. First off a diesel's highest torque and efficiency is at or around 1800Rpms,if you can cruise at 1600,BONUS !!.
The thing to remember is don't be dissappointed your still driving the best vehicle for your buck .Just look at all the other SUV's that get 16mpg,and laugh. You have a... go anywhere , anytime vehicle . This is what we wanted right?
So here is the nitty gritty of how I get the most out of her. 1/Regular oil changes; I prefer the Mobile 1 that is uggested in the manual. , especially before a long trip,even if you have a month of city driving.This will clean out the sludge and run smoother.Not to mention the longevity of your vehicle.This will help mpg.
2/Before a long trip or towing a load on a trip : Find fuel stations with premium diesel fuels. eg.Shell diesel "ULTRA",BP Supreme,etc..Fill up on these. This will help mpg..on avg 2- 4 mpg better .Paying the premium price may work out better for you.
3/Before a long trip : add fuel additives to boost cetane for better mpg. For best results..get an additive with cleaners as well as cetane improver in it. eg.Stanadyne performance plus,powerservice.. 4/In winter add to fuel a water dispersant; additive as well as cetane booster.eg.Stanadyne lubricity formula,Kleen Flo... Since most gas stations don't drain off water in the ground tanks built up from condensation,and to prevent fuel line freeze up. If you add this additive it will help mpg as well.when you are pumping fuel ,you may be pumping a certain percentage of water which reduces mileage.This will help reduce the water content.
5/Keep tire pressure at 35lbs.
6/On the HWY ,keep your speed down under 55 mph. Use cruise control on the staight aways. Every 5mph under 65 will give a 7% savings on fuel consumption. The HWY is not a race track and the libby is not a race car , but designed to be a practical , economical vehicle, Take your time... you'll get there and you'll save, trust me. Try it for a week,you'll see .Just bring a coffee on the way to work ,and an extra 10 minutes travel time. To drive a diesel is a different way of thinking. What is the hurry anyway,when you want to save on fuel ,DRIVE SLOWER !!..
7/Use your OH console showing MPG. After "cruise" is set bring MPG up and press reset on console then Decelerate till you reach a confortable MPG reading . You can also zero out the trip odometer on the dash to figure out your mileage on a tank of fuel. And lastly.. 8/Every 2 years change tranny filter ,fluid,and differential fluids,to increase efficiency.I use synthetic fluids only.They pay off in the end,since they have a higher viscocity rating. Besides since fuel costs stay high ,I get it back in fuel savings.
Have fun experimenting and Happy holidays... Lightnin3...
Caribou, Have you heard of EGR problems with the 2.8 L engine in Europe?? I have been told that it is a North American problem. Mine was replaced at 5732 miles, seven days ago. The engine has otherwise been great!!
This is the first small diesel I have ever owned. Previously owned a Dodge pick-up with the 5.9 L Cummins and also a motor home(I think you may refer to them as caravans in EU)with the 5.9 L Cummins, also had a Ford pick-up with the Power Stroke diesel, a recent addition is another motorhome/caravan with a 7.9 L Catipillar diesel.
I see diesel power as a propulsion unit for now and the future as we see less dependence on oil from below the ground and start producing bio fuels from plants grown in the ground. Cheers!!
Thanks for comment, dealer called yesterday, I will tell him about cleaning lines,I have appointment friday Ch rep had called him we are going for a test drive dealer was nice on phone getting Ch invoided makes a differense. The Jeep Jerked this morning hope it will when we test drive friday. Its kind of hard to pick a day and a time its going to jerk the odds are not likely. wish me luck :lemon:
The 1800rpm sweet spot has been mentioned several times in the forums, would like to know where this comes from.
It comes from people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when they don't.
The Torque peak RPM of a CRD is with the throttle wide open and the turbo at max boost. This has zero to do with where the vehicle will get it's best mpg (unless you are talking WOT mpg, which would be around 4 mpg).
Well I hope you get your problems solved. I have my jeep in the shop right now for a thermostat. It just went out on one of the coldest nights we have had in Iowa. Got to about half the operating temp and that was it. So while it is in there they are going to flash the computer and check on the EGR valve. They would have had it back to me today but they didn't send a gasket for the thermostat. Other than no heat and it being -16 degrees she started right up after sitting outside of work for ten hours. She did bark a little when starting but it turned to a purr in about a minute. So have a little faith and let them get the bugs worked out of yours and I think you will enjoy the diesel. Take it from someone who wrenches on farm tractor diesels that diesels are the way to go.
The 1800rpm sweet spot has been mentioned several times in the forums, would like to know where this comes from.
It comes from people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when they don't.
Go look at the torque chart from VM Motori at this link link title for the R428 engine. Then write them a letter, stating their chart by your calculations is incorrect.
Keeping your RPM's low when shifting will help you on fuel, but we don't have to worry about that because we can't stick the diesel unitl they let us have a stick shift. If you keep a lower RPM on the highway it will most times help the mileage, but not always. Depends on the gears you have.I would like to be able to run about 1400 RPM's on the hightway at 65 mph but then you would have to get out and push it over an ant hill. You would have no power. Ever hear the noise of a Jimmy Screamer they are running double the RPM's we are and are a two stroke engine. But they are a good on fuel. Sounds like they are going to blow up.
Hi unclebubba, The EGR problems seem to be related to the newer model that has an intercooler. There have been a few problems here as well since these were 'upgraded'. Mine is not cooled, looks very small compared to what you have, and I don't have the throttle valve on my inlet manifold. To get my hands around the engine, I just need to undo the 3 air hoses and there is plenty of accessibility. Perhaps in the future you will have access to the smaller diesels ~1.4L. They are fun to drive in small cars especially when comes the time to refill because today 60mpg is quite common to carry two adults plus luggage. Unfortunately oil dependence will go on for some time until we have the proper injection system, but our engine block seems ready. I've not yet seen a drop of oil under the Jeep and I've been using the same parking space for over 2 years. This is cool :shades:
Go look at the torque chart from VM Motori at this link link title for the R428 engine. Then write them a letter, stating their chart by your calculations is incorrect.
BSFC (fuel comsumption per horsepower) is at full throttle, like in an airplane or generator application. This has zero to to with automotive fuel mileage.
Read your chart again. 200G/kwhr * 70 KW = 14 Kg or 31 lbs of fuel per hour.
You are right. If you keep it at 1800 RPM, you will get 12 mpg, per the graph, which is better than 4 mpg if you don't keep it at 1800 rpm.
The Gnome is right. But adequate torque only at high rpm is a relatively worthless attribute. Conversely, relatively little torque at low rpm is a flaw.
I like the vehicle that climbs hills near idle- that I don't have to uncontrollably race the engine if busting trail through snow drifts, for instance.
High torque at low rpm is quite favorable for an off-road vehicle; if you like to keep traction, that is.
I have used a weight distribution hitch pulling a 4200lb travel trailer nearly 10k miles with no interference problems.It is far enough out that we still have access to the rear door and it rides level and stable even in cross-winds.I would advise anyone pulling more than 2500 lbs or so to get one and have electric brakes as well.Camper-World is where I found mine.I don't use any sway control devices with this setup,since I found they aren't advised for short wheelbase vehicles.
jeep liberty diesel 05 8500 miles with a little over 5000units made and over 200 post on egr failure that is over 20% egr failure. mine is at the dealer now & it will be at 4 days getting parts.why, when dc knows this part is failing?
Probably because they don't know why the EGR units are failing! Hopefully, the "smart guys" at STAR (the service arm for Daimler Chrysler) will figure out what the deal is. In the meantime, the engine is not the culprit. It may have to do with a number of things i.e.: fuel quality, bad batch of EGR's, or perhaps whatever they did in programing the ECM to meet the fed's emissions requirements. It will all be ok!!! How's that for optimism!!??
That can't be Mobil One totally Syn. oil! I agree WalMart is the least expensive place to get an oil change for the CRD, but don't use a blended oil or regular diesel oil, DC does not accept that in anyway!
At last, You I believe are correct in your statement! the problem is not the EGR itself, and most tec's are simply replacing the end results, rather than finding the source of the cause for the EGR's going out. However considering that 8,333 CRD's were made in 05, and on this forum less than .5% of the owners of CRD's are here that's really a huge problem. Thanks for a direct intellegent post!
I would like to correct your statement. There were 8,333 CRD's made as 2005 CRD's. The 200 posts you have read some are repeat bring backs, and DC is smart to see what is causing the EGR failures. This is a cause and effect problem. These engines are well proven, and considering that any mechanical machine is subject to failure because of a weak component, This is a minor problem not not one would call a major engine failure by any means.
I read that Congress passed a energy tax credit of up to $3,400. as an incentive to offset the increased cost of diesel technology, in much the same way as tax credits for hybrid vehicles. Has anyone got any current information on this tax credit?
I don't know the answer. I'll dig into this deeper later and find the answer (EPA site) if you don't already know it. Right now I have to go put a snow blade on a tractor and fix a dishwasher.
Comments
"Today’s fuels are produced to very tightly defined specifications to make sure they can meet the requirements of modern engines, minimise pollution and give optimum performance. To make sure that the fuel you buy has the properties and additives your engine needs, the specifications are defined in a set of British and European standards. By law all fuel sold must meet these standards. Why all the fuss about specifications and standards? Well, the most obvious purpose of fuel in a car is to burn and provide energy for the engine, but all fuels – petrol or diesel – are a complex mixture of chemicals with a variety of properties. Some of these properties are useful and manufacturers can exploit them before the fuel is burnt. Other properties are not at all useful and have to be overcome.
The main useful property is that, being oil based, fuels can act as a lubricant for the very accurately manufactured injection equipment. The lubricating property of diesel and petrol is a part of the standard, so engine designers can rely on the fuel lubricating their pumps and injectors to have the right lubricating qualities to keep things running smoothly. Additives may be included to ensure the fuel meets the standard.
The speed at which the fuel burns is another important factor which needs to be accurately controlled – this is indicated by the Octane rating for petrol or Cetane rating for diesel. If it burns too quickly, the engine will be overstressed and knock; if it burns too slowly you have a serious drop in engine efficiency and the exhaust valves are liable to burn out. Once again, engine designers can rely on a consistent rate of burning when they are specifying things like injector or ignition timing and they can programme the engine management system to optimise performance, economy and emissions.
Then there are the properties which need to be overcome, chief among which is the tendency for traces of heavier oils in the fuel to form deposits where you really don’t want them. These deposits stop the fuel atomising correctly, again reducing fuel efficiency. To avoid this, detergents are added which continually clean the deposits away.
In summary, manufacturers spend millions of pounds on research to ensure that the fuel you buy will run your engine at maximum efficiency. Oil companies in turn spend millions ensuring that the fuel on every filling station forecourt consistently meets the standards the manufacturers rely on and a whole department of government officials carry out checks to make sure everyone’s doing their job properly.
So, you can take advantage of all this research and regulation by filling up with fuel at a filling station, or you can simply tip some old vegetable oil in the tank and hope that it will have the right lubricating qualities, that it will burn at the right speed and then strip the injection system down from time to time in the hope that you’ll clean up all the deposits before they do permanent damage – the choice is yours!"
BP Diesel Supreme is what I use, and it has a cetane value of 45. I also add Diesel boost about 6oz per tank full which boosts cetane to about 50. European Diesel is a minimum of 50 cetane and it is ULSD.
Also, winterized Diesel which I'm sure gets delivered to MN from the refiner/distributor earlier than the rest of us tends to slightly fade MPG in winter months.
Oil consumption for the first 1K ~ 8K is normal until the engine gets a chance to break in. Diesels have a longer break in period. Also, don't let your CRD idle long in those MN winters. The Garret VNT15 Turbo requires a minimum amt of boost pressure to maintain the condition of the seals. Extended periods of idle (20+ minutes)will cause a certain amount of oil consumption that will clog the catalytic converter. Some owners have complained about the CRD running poorly after a long idle (i.e. chugging).
The CRD gets it's maximum MPG when it is operating in the "sweet spot". Operating under peak conditions is at constant speed and 1800rpm. This is where the engine "breathes" at it's best and is delivering the max. torque and max MPG. Depending if your tranny O.D. is working properly 1800rpm = 60mph~ 63mph. This engine does NOT like high rpm's nor does it like to ingest high revs.
When I'm forced to go out of that sweet spot (i.e. 2100rpm = 75mph) my MPG drops to 22 MPG.
My 2005 CRD with just over 6K miles makes weekly business trips between Cincinnati and Indianapolis (FLAT TERRAIN). My MPG is 28. Yes, I drive 60~63mph.
Have the service dept checkout all the hose connections, some have been delivered loose from the factory in Toledo. Especially any piping to and from the turbo as this had cause loss of pressure to and from the turbo/engine for optimum performance.
Recently, I made the same trip to Marshall and got 23. We had a stiff western headwind, I drove 60-65 and the temperature was 12F. By that time of course we were burning the diesel fuel that was winterized. I do not get the same mileage with the winterized fuel which I think we start to see by October 1st.
As much as I dislike getting worse mileage for part of the year, I'm glad I have this "arctic diesel" because it is 3F and by the time I get ready to go this morning it will be an even 0F. I have no trouble starting in this weather. Thing fires up like a champ.
Hope this is helpful. Don't know what to say about the oil issue. I got mine new, drove it 6200 miles and it was down 1/2 quart. Changed the oil, I am still reading full at 9000 miles. I think you have an issue there but not in the mileage department.
A woman in my department at work owns the same vehicle as mine but with a 3.7L V6. She is getting 14 in town with the cold weather and rarely cracks 20 on the highway. I think the aerodynamics are a huge factor when you hit the freeways. She rarely beats the EPA figures on this truck but on her Volkwagen, she does beat the EPA figures. (She was really complaining about her crap mileage with her gas engine and asked about the diesel when I pulled up next to her in the garage). I think it is relative.
Hope you are enjoying your truck otherwise. I really love mine and get a kick out of having a diesel.
:shades:
I just want to make you aware, in case you were'nt, that you need to be careful with regards to the size/length of the travel trailer you buy. It has been the experience of those in my RV club, that towing with a short wheel base vehicle has some serious pitfalls, one should be familiar with. If you plan on buy something huge, i.e.: over 24 feet, with that wheel base, you will have serious issues with sway.
Even with friction sway bars or the newer anti-sway towing systems, the larger than the tow vehicle trailer will cause
a ride, wilder than you will find at most amusement parks. Select a travel trailer that is not too much to handle, control wise, for the CRD. It may have a rating of 5000 lbs., but that does'nt mean you need to match the weight of the trailer to the rating on the tow vehicle. Good luck and have a fun and safe time.
the Liberty is marketed as the Cherokee. So, even though there surely are some differences between the Euro and North Am. versions, I would have thought that the bugs had been worked out! :confuse:
From everything I have been able to read the 5K rating is more for the vehicle than the engine. The engine could tow greater loads but the frame size and wheel base are the limiting factors.
Will
What kind of boat?
Previously I was obtaining 26 to 28 mpg on the 325 mile trip and 23 mpg on my city/hwy commute. A couple of weeks ago I two instances of the engine running very rough as if it were on two cyl i/o four. I suspected the EGR had failed.
Dealership on last Monday diagnosed codes for "multi cyl misfire" and re-flashed the ECU. No other problems found.
Extensive test drive after and mpg was 27 plus on hwy.
(mpg computations are miles driven vs. gallons of fuel used, except for the 27 mpg test drive number where I used the EVIC numbers, FWIW the EVIC has been within 1 mpg of my calculations per tank of fuel so it is fairly accurate)
Right now I have no codes and I very much want to determine what is the cause for poor mpg.
Winterized fuel? I doubt it. Cold weather? Maybe, though I have owned several other diesels and never experienced this type of drop in performance. EGR? Even w/o a code or CEL I still suspect the EGR is part of my problem.
I have sympathy for those who are not obtaining the mpg they would like too as I was obtaining excellent mpg and it was like turning a light switch off when my mpg when off a cliff.
I also have a much greater amount of smoke now.
:confuse:
So far though, no problems for me and I have a build date in late June of '05. If the EGR valve goes, then it goes and gets replaced under warranty, but I like the having the opportunity to own such a rare and unique Jeep.
I just clicked over 3k miles today.
What are other sources of this oil for a decent price? Was under $20 ($19.97) at Walmart for the 5 qt pkg.
New to the board but it looks like a great board.
Since this is my first diesel and I am not familiar with diesels, do I need to add an additive to my diesel fuel during these winter months? If so, what?
Also, my Liberty is a 2005. I currently have 16,000 miles! Got it Easter weekend of this year. Had to have the EGR valve replaced at 10,000 miles. A few other problems such as the brake noise when backing up.
But I love my Liberty.
Thank you, Tony
On the return trip, I brought the rpm's up once, dropped back to 62 and averaged 30.3 mpg on return trip. The car has 3600 mi. I found on the level I could get 31.5 but hills dominate here in n. MI.
I do use power sirvice plus working with another a fuel catalyst which seems to be working. Wonder what it will do when I get to GA and buy summer blend and suck in warm air? Happy sailing BR
i KNOW THE Indianapolis-Cincinnati terrain. Was just there before thanksgiving. Stayed at my son in Laws parents in cincinnati, went to the air force museum in Dayton three days straight. Awesome!! Thanks again.
R 428 DOHC
2800 cc - 4 Cyl. - 16 Valve
The ever increasing popularity of the diesel engine and the increasingly frequent requests for larger capacity engines suitable for heavy passenger vehicle applications has led VM to further evolve the R 425 DOHC.
Increasing the capacity of this engine to 2.8 L was a relatively simple task thanks to the standard wet liners. This means that only changes to the liner, piston and camshaft were necessary. The result is the R 428 DOHC, an engine which offers all of the features and benefits of the R 425 DOHC plus an increase of over 10% more torque at lower revs.
Featuring the same 4 cylinder, four valves per cylinder layout with the latest in common rail injection technology and double balance shaft off the crank in the oil sump, this engine is ideally suited to heavyweight Minivans and SUVs.
Additional technical features are as per the R 425 DOHC and include finger followers on the camshaft and cooled EGR. An optional VGT turbocharger may also be fitted and increases the power output to a class-leading 177 CV.
Engine R 428 DOHC
Displacement 2766 cc
Cylinders 4 in line
Valves 16
Injection Common rail CP3
Max power 130 kW/3800 rpm
Torque 410 Nm/1800 rpm
Weight 220 kg
Emissions EURO 3
Why did we have to wait so many years to find such a rig ?
link title
The issues are not with the EGR valve or gasket itself, but how the air and pressure breaths through the system. If there is not enough air pressure/oxygen per stroke, along with the oxygen level with the re-mixed exhaust then the soot tends to clog the EGR gate.
This is why you see posts of owners "blowing the nose" of the CRD by stepping on the throttle. (Not recommended in my book).Once the EGR gate is fouled, then it throws a fault code (check engine) light.
The technicans these days are "component swappers" and will replace out the EGR valve and gasket because it's fouled and never address the source of the problem. The source is that the control module needs to have the appropriate amount of pressure/oxygen moving per stroke through the EGR valve.
This can be done with a software modification to the engine control module (ECM).
There will be many suggestions on getting the most out of your libby.
I have been getting 26-31 mpg out of mine.
Which I feel is on average higher than everyone else.
I have no garantee's,as I don't know your libbies mechanical condition,but we can try..
First off a diesel's highest torque and efficiency is at or around 1800Rpms,if you can cruise at 1600,BONUS !!.
The thing to remember is don't be dissappointed your still driving the best vehicle for your buck .Just look at all the other SUV's that get 16mpg,and laugh.
You have a... go anywhere , anytime vehicle .
This is what we wanted right?
So here is the nitty gritty of how I get the most out of her.
1/Regular oil changes;
I prefer the Mobile 1 that is uggested in the manual.
,
especially before a long trip,even if you have a month of city driving.This will clean out the sludge and run smoother.Not to mention the longevity of your vehicle.This will help mpg.
2/Before a long trip or towing a load on a trip :
Find fuel stations with premium diesel fuels.
eg.Shell diesel "ULTRA",BP Supreme,etc..Fill up on these.
This will help mpg..on avg 2- 4 mpg better .Paying the premium price may work out better for you.
3/Before a long trip :
add fuel additives to boost cetane for better mpg.
For best results..get an additive with cleaners as well as cetane improver in it. eg.Stanadyne performance plus,powerservice..
4/In winter add to fuel a water dispersant;
additive as well as cetane booster.eg.Stanadyne lubricity formula,Kleen Flo...
Since most gas stations don't drain off water in the ground tanks built up from condensation,and to prevent fuel line freeze up.
If you add this additive it will help mpg as well.when you are pumping fuel ,you may be pumping a certain percentage of water which reduces mileage.This will help reduce the water content.
5/Keep tire pressure at 35lbs.
6/On the HWY ,keep your speed down under 55 mph.
Use cruise control on the staight aways.
Every 5mph under 65 will give a 7% savings on fuel consumption.
The HWY is not a race track and the libby is not a race car , but designed to be a practical , economical vehicle,
Take your time... you'll get there and you'll save, trust me.
Try it for a week,you'll see .Just bring a coffee on the way to work ,and an extra 10 minutes travel time.
To drive a diesel is a different way of thinking.
What is the hurry anyway,when you want to save on fuel ,DRIVE SLOWER !!..
7/Use your OH console showing MPG.
After "cruise" is set bring MPG up and press reset on console then Decelerate till you reach a confortable MPG reading .
You can also zero out the trip odometer on the dash to figure out your mileage on a tank of fuel.
And lastly..
8/Every 2 years change tranny filter ,fluid,and differential fluids,to increase efficiency.I use synthetic fluids only.They pay off in the end,since they have a higher viscocity rating.
Besides since fuel costs stay high ,I get it back in fuel savings.
Have fun experimenting and Happy holidays...
Lightnin3...
Have you heard of EGR problems with the 2.8 L engine in Europe?? I have been told that it is a North American problem. Mine was replaced at 5732 miles, seven days ago. The engine has otherwise been great!!
This is the first small diesel I have ever owned. Previously owned a Dodge pick-up with the 5.9 L Cummins and also a motor home(I think you may refer to them as caravans in EU)with the 5.9 L Cummins, also had a Ford pick-up with the Power Stroke diesel, a recent addition is another motorhome/caravan with a 7.9 L Catipillar diesel.
I see diesel power as a propulsion unit for now and the future as we see less dependence on oil from below the ground and start producing bio fuels from plants grown in the ground. Cheers!!
It comes from people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when they don't.
The Torque peak RPM of a CRD is with the throttle wide open and the turbo at max boost. This has zero to do with where the vehicle will get it's best mpg (unless you are talking WOT mpg, which would be around 4 mpg).
It comes from people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when they don't.
Go look at the torque chart from VM Motori at this link link title for the R428 engine. Then write them a letter, stating their chart by your calculations is incorrect.
The EGR problems seem to be related to the newer model that has an intercooler. There have been a few problems here as well since these were 'upgraded'. Mine is not cooled, looks very small compared to what you have, and I don't have the throttle valve on my inlet manifold. To get my hands around the engine, I just need to undo the 3 air hoses and there is plenty of accessibility.
Perhaps in the future you will have access to the smaller diesels ~1.4L. They are fun to drive in small cars especially when comes the time to refill because today 60mpg is quite common to carry two adults plus luggage.
Unfortunately oil dependence will go on for some time until we have the proper injection system, but our engine block seems ready. I've not yet seen a drop of oil under the Jeep and I've been using the same parking space for over 2 years. This is cool :shades:
BSFC (fuel comsumption per horsepower) is at full throttle, like in an airplane or generator application. This has zero to to with automotive fuel mileage.
Read your chart again. 200G/kwhr * 70 KW = 14 Kg or 31 lbs of fuel per hour.
You are right. If you keep it at 1800 RPM, you will get 12 mpg, per the graph, which is better than 4 mpg if you don't keep it at 1800 rpm.
I like the vehicle that climbs hills near idle- that I don't have to uncontrollably race the engine if busting trail through snow drifts, for instance.
High torque at low rpm is quite favorable for an off-road vehicle; if you like to keep traction, that is.
Farout
Farout
Farout
Farout
Federal Clean Diesel Tax Credit
...note that the tax break is NOT retro-active.
Oh well, I got Trac-Loc. :P
Are the Bin 5 emissions more stringent than Bin 10?
Emissions US Tier II B in 10 (Euro IV capable)
VM Motori Spec Sheet
I don't know the answer. I'll dig into this deeper later and find the answer (EPA site) if you don't already know it. Right now I have to go put a snow blade on a tractor
Cheers,
Boilermaker