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Next year, meanwhile, Toledo Jeep Assembly will begin building a second diesel model for the U.S. market when the redesigned Jeep Wrangler is offered with the alternative-fuel engine, said Dan Henneman, chairman of United Auto Workers Local 12's Jeep unit.
Wrangler CRD
If you go on the CR website you can submit a comment about the article. I wrote to let them know that I have lost faith in their product evaluations. If they can be this far off about one, surely they are inaccurate on many others.
However, no tire works on ice.
My opinion LK
I have a friend whos wife flipped her Liberty.
I am glad to see another happy Jeep owner...
Yes I agree they are way off on this one.
Speak Soon...
Lightnin3...
I hope you are still around!
I've explored voluntarily what you've described the first winter I had the Jeep with "S4" stock tires but not "ST" like most of you suffer from.
What immediately came clear to my mind was:
- When you start to loose control sideways, the ABS can stop the truck with minimal damage only if you get it into NEUTRAL or FULL-TIME mode on the transfer case. This system needs to have the 4 wheels for itself
- When you can't come to a full stop going downhill you MUST put the gearbox into Neutral because otherwise it will keep on pulling everytime the ABS releases the brakes to catch and make sure there is adherence of the 4 wheels on the road.
This diesel is very predictable to drive on ice and snow, but I would suggest you try it first before it tries you.
I've used mine a bit more than 2 years in all kinds of driving conditions and I use the 4WD Part-time only to get out of a punctual mess I've deliberately chosen. :sick:
Happy new year :shades:
I hope that you and your occupants are well. The jeep can be fixed or replaced.
When I was a teenager, I was doing donuts out on our county road on a four-wheeler. I was having a blast until I got too close to the side of the road and flipped myself and the quad across the ditch and into the barb-wire fence.
I am not a physicists but it is my $.02 that you were in a sideways slide, your back axle was locked ('05 with Trac Loc, right? My March build '05 has trac-loc)and you went from no traction to lots of traction. The end was result was tip/flip (sudden regaining of lateral traction and wheels spun off of the rim with sudden re-gain of torque).
I don't know if this makes sense but this my hunch as to why the '06 when to anti-loc, roll and slip being all computer-brake controlled. I love the trac-loc, but it had to go for everything to work together and to prevent your situation in future model years. While a tire change might have helped (I am keeping mine until I wear them out), a spinning tire and a fish tail is a spinning tire and a fish tail. There are ways out of it BUT this depends upon reaction time, driver skill AND luck.
Hope this helps explain what happened. Others can chime in to correct. There is a lot of on and off-road experience on this site. I hope you and yours (plus the jeep) a speedy recover.
Boilermaker2
Of course, the Montero would roll over much easier on hard surfaces, instead of sliding. There may be a bit of a handling compromise at play.
I don't believe I can lean Libby over onto two wheels or over without fairly extreme circumstances. And, the stock tires are poorly suited for slickness, greatly suited for good mileage and D-C's profits.
I'm an advocate of testing limits of a vehicle under controlled circumstances. Find an icy parking lot that's empty and have some cautious fun! Use tried and tested methods to regain stability in adverse traction conditions.
Adjust your 'serious' driving habits to the vehicle and immediate road surface- and level of confidence. I'm still very much in learning mode with the Liberty equipped with very good LT traction tires. Haven't been lacking stability enough to drop tire pressure (38-36 psi), which may improve things markedly.
Those are good tips ! Unfortunately, isn't a full stop required to resume power if you pull the transfer case into neutral ? Maybe not if transmission is also put into neutral before re-engaging. :confuse: Disengaging clutch is certainly the trick with manual transmissions. I'm also not a fan of driving one-handed when I sense precariousness of the situation.
Needs research !
Typical review, some literary exaggeration, some good and some bad, overall it is fair.
flat rate tech mechanics talked about some long hill in CA, where every summer, people not making the engine push the tranny downhill would "melt the case hardened steel" because the driver was not downshifting and the drive tires were pushing the stator? There is the jake brake and I thought dieselpage talked about air restriction on the gm's. What should we do going down long hills?
As for the trac loc slipping ,well if you ease off on the gas peddle on a merge or in slippery conditions this would happen.The torque produced would put you in a tail spin.
If you even notice it being a little slick ,put in full time 4WD that way you have better control ,if you want to boot it.
I would like to add that this wouldn't happen if they had good all terrain tires on.
Michelin LTX M/S, are reasonably priced now,and are a good all season SUV tire.
But I suggest B.F Goodrich All Terrain T/A KO very quiet and sticky..
But my suggestion really is to get a second set of rims and tires for this slippery season.They will show better results.
Also put about 50 lbs of weight in the back if you are just commuting to work.I find the Libby acts like a pick up for traction in the back.She is a bit light for the torque of the engine.Having weight behing the wheels will help them bite in.
Speak Soon ..
Lightnin3...
Farout
But any idea what would help my problem?
Farout
Farout
With all this in mind it makes it so an owner can reasonably replace the tires with something more in line with their needs.
If the tires were found to be mislabeled or defective them there would be a reason to pursue legal action.
As for flipping a Liberty, DC has put warning stickers on the visor that these are at risk for flipping. Perhaps the 2006 have a better control system, but so far we have been cautious and alert to the possibility of flipping. The Jeep Liberty is not near at risk as some of the other SUV"s especially noteworthy is the early Explorers.
I am sure the lawyers are keeping their eyes open for any SUV that they can have a class action suit on.
Farout
But if,I was a savy buyer and knew that I was , at sometime ,going to take my little SUV Skiing in a remote area with lots of snowy weather,
or travelling to the East coast where there is "lots of rainy weather" ,
I would definately suggest to ,
at least trade the stock tires for some that are a little more agressive tread,or with good name brand.
Dealerships do carry other brands of tires.
Which I think most people who have owned a 4X4 for some while have a preference to a brand of SUV tire,that performs well and is easy to replace.
But I would definitely try to make a deal with the dealer before the vehicle arrives in the lot,to trade them in for some better performing tires,like the ones I suggested earlier.
I am sure a deal can be made at that time or at least brought to a tire store and get the ones that the buyer wants , put on and a rebate for the stock tires .Of course this "deal" would have to be set ahead of time with the dealer.
I have to admit I was a bit worried ,about the safety factor of these tires as well.
I just wanted to say don't wait till some bad weather hits,I would suggest in investing some good name brand All terrain tires,and not even be worried about bad weather when it comes.
Not to mention ,I have found that a good name brand has a longer longevity
It could save the aggrevation of getting these stock ones replaced in 2 years.Which par for the course for stock tires.
Speak Soon...
Lightnin3...
In my younger years I took ice racing courses near Chamonix and I was shown that my natural reflexes were erroneous on ice or snow. 20mph on ice can simulate conditions of 80mph on a dry road, and I stongly recommend to learn safely how vehicles react when you loose adherence. On an ice ring there is no risk and people are expecting to slide. We have winter driving-school sessions here for those drivers who don't feel comfortable on slippery roads. You can attend even if you're above 60 years old!
Here is the link to cold weather pleasure:
http://www.iceraces.com/pages/indexan.htm
If you have the chance to get the Jeep sliding sideways and disengage the transmission, you will discover something different and not scary at all. Only practice in safe conditions or better with a teacher can cheer-up someone who experienced a loss of control.
As of adding an extra 50 lbs on the rear axis, I can say there is no difference for my driving alone, with a passenger or fully loaded. This truck is well balanced, and you can see this by looking at the shape (load) of the 4 tires. In all cases I use the 4WD Full-Time when the road is slippery or going downhill on mountain roads.
Can anybody tell me what kind of turbo is on the CRD? Is it a VGT (variable geometry), wastegated, or just a standard turbo?
Is there any aftertreatment of the exhaust - particulate trap, or catalyst?
The current problems with egr are pretty much the same for all modern diesels using egr. Just check any of the GM (DuraMax 6.6L) or Ford (Navistar 6.0L) diesel discussions. Depending on the type of turbo and how it is controlled (if VGT or wastegated), it may be possible to block off the egr without causing problems other than higher NOx emissions. All diesels run lean, so eliminating egr flow won't hurt a bit as far as leaning the combustion. The advantage is that fuel economy will be improved - possibly drastically. However, it is also possible that the turbo will overspeed unless somehow protected by wastegating or vgt actuation.
So...has anyone tried blocking off the egr on a CRD?
Greg
As far as I know, the turbo is of the VGT type. It spools up pretty quickly and is made by Garrett (I think).
As to after treatment, there is a catalytic converter, but I am not sure which pollutant is being treated by it.
As to the EGR issue, I believe that the poor quality of domestic diesel fuel is the culprit. It is high in sulfur, low in cetane and basically crap. This engine is designed to run on LSD (no pun intended) or ULSD with a cetane of 51 or better. That is EU quality fuel. I would not mess with the EGR.
Once ULSD is in place, and hopefully improved cetane too, many of the EGR issues will fall by the way side.
I have no experience with Alcorn or other ship sized diesels, but basic operation principals are similar. Fuel air and compression are necessary to operate. Absence of one will stop the engine, even a run away.
The basic issue that started this discussion however was the cruise control cutting out. That is a Mopar thing that is designed to 1) maintain road speed even downhill, and 2) not overspeed the engine when going down hill.
Anyway, some good discussion and the experienced techs came forth to dispel wives tells. I applaud all who responded with logic and reasonable explanations.
I have been prowling over my CRD looking at way to increase my overall mileage. It has hung around the low twenties since I bought almost 7,000 miles ago.
Last week while changing the oil I broke down, took some advice from this site and snugged the turbo hose clamps. I was surprised that they weren't as tight as one would think.
I had a hunch last night and I popped the canister to look at the air filter. I was appalled. It was filthy. It was dirtier at 6.7k than any of my vehicles before have been at 12k intervals.
This vehicle is strictly a pavement pounder. It occasionally drives on soft stretches but nothing like I know some have put their KJ's through on this site.
Cheers,
Boilermaker2
Has anyone else had this issue? Has anyone done a before/after snugging their hoses?
I haven't had time yet to follow the pathway, does anyone know if the air is routed in such a way as to pull engine emissions back through the filter if there is a loose fitting? While I would applaud DCX for such an environmental feat, I would also expect that they make the owner/operators aware of this.
As for the hose clamps, check all of them, even from under the CRD if you have to. I check them monthly and that takes about fifteen minutes.
As to the routing of exhaust gases through the air filter, I do not think any manufacturer would do that. Any routing of exhaust/crankcase gases is done after the air filter and not before, even with a loose fitting or clamp.
Farout
Farout
Farout
Speaking about air filters and I know a lot has been said about K&M, but what is a good air filter for these CRD engines. I called our local parts dealer and he has about 5 air filters listed for this and 4 oil filters as well for the CRD, so they are starting to stock these parts. I am not into high perfromance or rock climing, just getting good mpg and long service.
At least Motor Week is more truthful than Comsumer Reports, who claim their CRD got 11mpg! I have long questioned is CR was not bias against American made cars & trucks, now we know they bend the truth to suit their fancy. I canceled CR!
Farout
Like you, I would like to know what air filters others recommend. Per this board, I got purolater oil filters. Not sure about the air filters.
Boilermaker2
The CRD will go through bumper deep snow with the stock tires @ 26000+ miles.
It climbs hills just fine in OD @ 50 mph and even better at higher speeds.
It has the same snap off the line as the Cherokee, but with a 2 sec delay.
It really needs a stick.
Closed crankcase ventilation feeds into the turbo inlet hose well after the air filter just before the turbo inlet. Other than high airflow I can offer no other reason why the filter gets so dark.
Are the '06 CRD's even in production yet???
The lease on my current vehicle expires at the end of February, and I've been told that it takes 6-8 weeks from order to delivery for a CRD (I'm sure I'll have to order from the factory to get what I want - LTD without sunroof but with hands-free and Sirius). Given that time lag, I need to commit soon or move on to another vehicle (second choice, Subaru Outback).
-The K&N (not dirty enough for cleaning)
-The original
-The MANN diesel
So far, only the K&N made my mileage drop a bit. Both original and MANN are paper element filters and give no difference in mileage or performance.
I clean them with a vacuum cleaner every month or so, but never tap them against something. You should always check for filter integrity agains a bright light source by gently bending it from the turbo (clean) side to expand the wiggles and look for cracks. Beware of brushes that can provocate an opening between the paper folds when they are dry (winter and desert conditions).
I have the CRD and live west of Denver. I also drove a 4.0 L Cherokee. In terms of comfort the CRD is much better than the Cherokee. In answer to your question about power on the passes, yes you can cruise at 70+mph and stay in overdrive. You can typically drive I-70 and not downshift out of overdrive unless slowed by traffic. It seems that the turbocharger generates sea level performance at high elevation. As a example, last fall I drove to Aspen for the weekend on one tank, cruising 75 - 80 when I could, went over 3 passes each way, did a little offroading and acheived 27mpg!
I just helped a friend of mine negotiate a deal on a dark khaki '06 in the last week of December 2005. There are not many out there, but they are around. There are still a few 2005 CRDs with nice option packages here in the Indy area.
The deals in December were amazing. Some dealers out here were offering the Green Sheet (Employee Price) AND $1000 cash back for financing AND $1500 bonus cash. Had I waited another month I would have saved $1500 too!!! Keep looking as deals abound!
You may be a member of the highest CRD mileage club. Could you please report your current mileage and whether or not you have had an EGR, or other warranty repairs?
Farout
With this Cruise control thing and the not up to par with the mpg, and high diesel prices, I am kinda wondering if I bit off more than I should have. I have never before had a truck that seems to have so many little things to fidget with. I am "tired & worn out". If DC expects the CRD to gain real sales numbers they have to get better trained tec's. I now know why some DC Jeep dealers here don't sell CRD's.
Farout
Thanks for the advice. I don't need the towing capacity but am attacted to the longevity of a diesel - my wife had a 1982 Benz diesel that we bought with 100k, and was still going strong at 20 years and almost 300k when we sold it (the peripheral stuff like A/C and window motors were all starting to fail, and the cost-benfit analysis swung to selling it).
Also, the Liberty offers Sirius and Bluetooth, neither of which is available on the Subaru (though I am baffled why NAV and Sirius can't be ordered together from JEEP). A comparably equipped CRD costs less than the Subaru as well.
That said, it would be foolish to lease / purchase without first test driving ...