Porsche Boxster and Boxster S

bxstrnewbie

Just had my new 2003 Boxster delivered at a great price. The car has 17" wheels, and I'm wondering if I should upgrade to 18" Porsche or aftermarket wheels.

Is the performance/handling gain worth the added cost? Also, how will 18" wheels effect the ride quality.

Any opinions appreciated.

speeds2much

They look better imo, but that's really where the benefit stops for normal street driving. Also, 18" rims are easier to damage and ride quality will suffer.

The extra-firm sport suspension would be a teeth-jarring experience and seems inappropriate for anything except extremely well-maintained roads (e.g., German autobahn) and race tracks. The standard suspension will handle road imperfections in a much more civil way, and you may even find that results in "better" handling in certain conditions.

Basically, if you're gaining a worthwhile handling edge on the road with options like these, you're probably driving too fast.

designman

Boxster owners and fans. Hope you have had the opportunity to read the February issue of Automobile magazine. If not, you should know that the magazine gave all-star awards in 14 categories and the Boxster won it in the sports car category. Talk about getting some validation with all this talk about value in the S2000 and 350Z. Do you know why we have Boxsters? It’s explained as follows. I can’t imagine finding any piece of writing on our baby that will top this. It’s awesome:

“The two seat roadster segment is based largely on impulse and emotion. New roadsters sell well for a few years until they are deemed passe by the mix of enthusiasts and poseurs who consume them. In this constantly evolving segment, the Boxster is so immediately perfect and timeless that only slight tweaks are necessary to keep it on top. Porsche knows when to change, and more important, when change is unnecessary. A true Porsche, the Boxster feels crafted instead of merely built. It is beautiful to behold, still or in motion, and even better when you are the one putting it in gear. Boxsters speak so clearly through the controls that driving becomes an existential quandary of human getting lost in machine, in the snarl of the flat-six and the gentle pulsing of the leather wrapped steering wheel. Cynics will claim that there are less expensive sports cars that duplicate, or even surpass, a Boxster’s quantifiable abilities, but none has its noble grace, which is rarely found in machines at any price. Mesmerizing and involving, the Boxster is a living being in a segment full of automations.”

boxsterlover

Could not agree more on Feb Automobile issue. My personal choice was between the BMW 3 seies convertible and the Boxster, rear seating practicality versus mid-engine design and other than the Toyota MRS, only Porsche has it at less than stratospheric price ranges. The 18" wheels look better but the performance difference must be negligible. Porsche's ride pretty well for sports cars and handling is supreme with either tires.

jwilson1

I'll bet everyone of you guys who own a Boxster already knew what Automobile confirmed. But it is nice to have it underlined, especially by someone who can get the phrase "existential quandary" into an auto review!

RE: +1 wheels. The only reason to choose a larger wheel for performance is if you plan to put race rubber on them and take the car on a track like Daytona with long straights and big sweepers. In fact, on my 911 I have race rubber on an extra set of -1 (16") wheels. The general rule is CF Racing's motto: To add speed, add lightness. JW

serranot

I just purchased an '03 Boxster S with 18" lightweight Carrera wheels and the rigidly tuned chassis. Because of the relatively light weight of the car and the minimal unsprung weight, the thing actually rides pretty well even for daily driving. Our '94 Corvette was much more back-breaking, even on normal bumps. I think it is a great compromise between ride and handling.

Tom

jhammell

Serranot,

Thanks for your posting. How many miles have you put on the car, where are you located, what type of roads are you driving on and did you drive a Boxster w/o the sport chassis to compare the two ?
I appreciate your feedback as I getting close to submitting my order.

boxsterlover

Had a stange problem with the Bose stereo on my Boxster. Had been listening to the stereo and then dropped the top of the car. When I turned on the stereo again, no sound came from the CD or radio though the radio and CD appeared to be working normally by all other accounts. Read the manual and could not find any trouble-shooting info so I closed the top and the sound from the radio and CD came on again. I then dropped the top with the radio on and it stayed on. Anyone else have a similar experience?

serranot

Jhammell,
    I purchased the car used with 7k miles on it. Because it was a gift for my wife, she has let me put a grand total of about 50 miles on it. I only drove one previous Boxster before, a '99 with the sport package. Sorry, but I don't remember much about that car, so my frame of reference is nonexistent. Like I said earlier, I have ridden in other cars (Corvettes, mainly, and '93 RX-7) where the sport package was utterly punishing. I drove the Boxster today for about 30 minutes around town (northern Virginia/DC) and was pretty comfy. I'm about 5'9, 205 lbs, so the seats are a little narrow for my backside, but I find the suspension just right. One thing about the wheels--if you hit a pothole or a curb, you WILL damage them, no question. So I have been a little extra vigilant with all of the potholes around here right now. If you want a little more piece of mind, go with the 17s. One other thing--I love the PSM. You can overcook any corner and the computer just reigns you in. Given the rigid chassis and 18" wheels, it's very easy to get the back end to slide without PSM.

Boxsterlover - I came out of the store yesterday morning and started the car--no sound. Everything was lit up fine, but no sound. I turned the car off and on and it worked fine again. Can't figure it out. I have the Bose.

Regards,
Tom

jhammell

Serranot,

Your spouse is one lucky lady.

We are in Atlanta and the roads for the most part are not too beat up as we have been able to keep our other wheels (40 and 45 series rubber) from the potholes. We just try to be more careful at night on unfamiliar roads.

I am sold on PSM so I think that my "regular" Boxster with the sport chassis, 18" Carrera wheels and the rest of my options list will add up to a terrific machine. I will keep you posted as we go "out for bids" on who wants to sell me the car.

Thx,

JH

jwilson1

With most cars it really doesn't matter how you modify from the original package because it's all cosmetic since the car is pretty much what it's gonna be. But with the Boxster, and even moreso with the 911, it makes some sense to make your mods slowly and after purchase .... unless of course you're leasing (I forget if you said). There is an incredible range of options available to you for possible suspension, wheel, brake, tire, etc. variations out there, even mixing and matching Porsche components in ways that are not offered through options. Often you'll find, too, that the modification you want to make is somewhat cheaper than it was as an option -- but mods are an especially slippery slope. Pick up a copy of Excellence and look the ads over to see what I mean. DIY does offer you the possibility to make changes in smaller increments, however, not for finances but so you're sure you like each of the changes you are doing.

For example, I wanted more torque from my engine. So I eliminated the secondary muffler (about $350 + labor), drove it for awhile and decided it was still not what I wanted ... so added an Andial chip -- much more like it. What's important is to make the changes in a sensible order -- exhaust before engine and, in your case, shocks/struts likely before springs before wheels/spacers. This way you'll have a setup that is exactly how you like it. You may even find that you like it the way it's set up by Porsche on the stock unit after you drive it for a couple of weeks and save yourself several thousand!

Best wishes, JW

jhammell

Thanks again for your input. You are spot on with what I am planning to do with this car over a period of time. I will pick up a copy of Excellence to start plotting.

I have an 1985 VW Golf GTi (that is now my track car) that I bought new and over the many years have modified to a point where it is far from he original. We have an '02 530i that will have a few modifications after the warranty expires but because it will be my wife's car they will be minimal. Another 70 degree day here like today and I will really want to get this car going at the factory for delivery next week (not going to happen).

JH

boxsterlover

Thanks for the message about your Bose radio. I hope that there aren't any more electronic gremlins willing to strike at any time. Concerning PSM, I had a chance to get a better deal on another Boxster S but without PSM. I passed on it because in testing a regular Boxster, I was accelerating on a slippery, icy road from 2 to 3 gear when the car started to fishtail. I had never driven a rear-drive vehicle but I remembered to stay off the brakes and counter steer. With my car with PSM, I once entered a turn fairly fast when there was a stopped car about halfway through the turn that I couldn't see. I then braked hard and felt the rear come around but within a split second it went right back into place. I think PSM should be standard.

boxster_newb

I'm in the market for an '04 Boxster base and was wondering what kind of deals people have been getting. I'm in NJ and was offered $2500 below MSRP for an in-stock car. Any thoughts ?

designman

There have been some real good deals on leftover 03s... like $10k off MSRP and there are some still around. The Boxster market has been soft and reportedly Porsche cut back on 04 production in an attempt to keep prices up. Apparently, this past year was a first with the manner in which they discounted.

$2,500 off retail for an 04 sounds pretty good on the surface, but I'd look into it harder in light of the heavy discounting that has been going on. If Boxster sales are indeed slumping and continue to do so, you will be taking a hit unless you plan on keeping the car for long time.

There was a time not too long ago when you were lucky to get $500 off a new Porsche. However, times are changing.

boxster_newb

Thanks for the advice. At first $2500 < MSRP sounded good, but then after reading about the heavy discounts on the '03 models and the redesign coming next year(2006 ?), I think I might be able to negotiate a bigger discount. I'm still looking for an '03, but it's slim pickings here in NJ !

starrow68

I looked at most sports cars a couple years ago and went with roomy over agility. Then I got some input on tracking, driving events at road racing facilities with instruction available. I've been to several and I see a few Corvettes, 911's, lots of BMWs, various performance brands from Japan but so far at six events on four different tracks, never a Boxster. My test drives confirmed it had the power to run with the rest, and would probably be quicker if not faster than my Vette coupe, not a Z06. Maybe it's different in other areas but in Northern California I wonder why getting up to speed without the potential for red lights doesn't attract the Boxster?

jwilson1

At time trials and drivers ed. events, you're not competing against other drivers really, but against yourself. Sure you can compare times, but if you try fender-to-fender stuff, you won't be welcomed back. I mention this because you don't really need to be competitive with other cars there. At a PCA event you'll be grouped by experience and (presumed) skill. You'll be moved up to another group not on the basis of your car but according to ability as observed by your instructor.

All that said, most have felt that the Boxster, even the S, isn't suitable for track events and call it "underpowered." (Don't shoot the messenger.) But as I say, it's not about "beating" other cars and you will be encouraged to stay out of the way not only of faster cars but, if any, faster drivers.

The Boxster has been very successful in autoX, able to stick with the Honda on local levels in the hands of a skillful driver. BStreet for the regular and AStreet for the S model. The car is loads of fun to drive and most choose it for that reason. And you can go plenty fast enough to get started in track. Locally, the Boxster is a frequent sight at track days. Best, JW

designman

If you want an 03 they are still out there but you will have to do some homework/legwork and be willing to buy from a dealer that is not so close to you. Not a problem IMO.

Try NY and CT. They have bigger inventories. I saw some dealer ads in the New York Times this past weekend with 03s. Do a dealer search on the Porsche website and start dialing.

If you are passionate about the Boxster it will be worth it. I put a lot of effort into it but enjoyed every minute. My problem is that I still have 911 fever. It's OK though, I have it all in persepective... the Boxster has a ton of talent and costs considerably less.

:-)

starrow68

jwilson1, thanks for the insight, been to Corvette only autocross and track days for all comers which I realize is not a great cross section. I'm very aware of the rules about not 'racing' during DE's and find it very smart, giving plenty of clearance and wishing for some in return, I do pass a fair share given the power of the Vette but I've been passed by better drivers in things a few steps back from the Vette. Just noticeable that I've never come across either Boxster. The only event I got times at there were several S2000s that were much faster, don't know if they were stock or driver level, could have been as green as I am.

ds2k1

Do any of you notice the steering wheel pulling a little to the left on hard acceleration, and then returning to the center once you let off the gas? Is this normal? If so, what's causing that? If it's not normal, should I be worried? In case it matters, I have an '03 Boxster S with about 3500 miles on it.

Thanks.

designman

Have not noticed it and I'm a stickler for unnatural yawing. However, during hard acceleration I'm usually concentrating on other things such as the stick, tach, road, other vehicles, skulking Impalas and Crown Victorias. Will definitely look for this now that you mentioned it... will let you know what I find. I'm assuming you already checked your tire pressure?

boxsterlover

There are some good websites to look for Boxsters but my experience was that the best websites are the Porsche dealer ones. I bought mine at Hoffman Porsche @ Hartford Ct. He had a very nice 2003 Boxster S with very few miles on it, blue exterior and beige interior. There is a dealer outside Philadelphia with a lot of Porsches and you can try www.luxurycars.com. They have a 2003 all black Boxster S for $43,900 but with tiptronic. They also have a 1999 911 C2 Coupe for $35,900. Good luck.

monkstermann

Hello everyone. I'm new to this discussion; looking for used boxster/boxster S around year 2000 or so. I was wondering where I can find change history for things such as design improvements etc. and what years are to stay away from.
Also what does PSM stand for. Though I infer that it's some kind of stability control how does Porsche approach it vis a vis other manufacturers?
 
Thanks

Mr_Shiftright

Porsche Stability Management is what it stands for. Near as I can tell it works like most other stability control systems, reading any situation where the driver's inputs are not rational in relation to the direction the car is going in. So selective braking is applied to individual wheels to straighten the car out and also the engine power can be cut if things really get freaky.

Personally, given how stable the Boxster S is, I don't see where most drivers should need it, unless you have a history of going sideways, backwards, etc. in your cars. Some people are real hotfoots vis-a-vis their actual skills (well look we all overestimate ourselves now and then) and they may be better off with it.

You can disable the PSM but it kicks back in automatically when you are braking or so I'm told.

designman

As far as I know (and that's not a lot) there are no Boxster Ss to stay away from. The S came out in 2000 and any issues I have heard are about early non-S Boxsters.

2003 brought slight trim changes to the front/rear bumpers and the replacement of the plastic rear window with glass.

2004 is identical to 2003 with the addtition of 8 hp.

I consider PSM a safety benefit. As Mr Shiftright suggests, as good as I think I am as driver, I probably overrate myself and believe PSM works unobtrusively to our advantage. Is it worth it? At the very least it gives me a little peace of mind, so on that note my answer is yes.

chile96

The only difference between '03 & '04 is the option of an additional color - otherwise these cars are identical. The '03 received an extra 8 HP for the S as well as a glovebox, glass rear window, new radio system.

jwilson1

If you've got to have stability mgt., PSM is (imo) to be preferred. It gives up a lot more to the driver than most other systems, which seem to cut in at the slightest notion of wheel slip. PSM lets the driver induce some oversteer without butting in, and I know a couple of decent drivers who even leave it on for autoX. JW

boxsterlover

Everyone just about covered the PSM and Boxster/Boxster S topics. I found a great website at another chat room for used Porsches. It is Rennlist.com. I also saw a picture of the upcoming Boxster, probably disguised but it wasn't an earthshaking difference from the current model. The caption said that there would be an increase of about 10-20 HP and given the markup especially in the beginning on a new model, I would think that a good discount on an '03 especially the S model, would be a great buy. I feel that the competition has caught up to Porsche but the S model is competitive with them and the glass rear window makes a world of difference.

monkstermann

Thanks for all your input Mr Shiftright, designhost, Chile96, jwilson1 and boxsterlover. Made some calls myself re PSM to the local Porsche dealer Desert European and they said probably don't need PSM living in the desert as I do, that they actually come stock with a stability mgmt system and with PSM it gives you a button on the dash to disable if your so desire. Is this accurate or inaccurate??

jwilson1

So you found Rennlist! My favorite spot. If you have an interest re:Porsche, that's the place to go. Good people, too. If you want an even more extended discussion of Boxsters, you'll want to visit P-car.com which, in addition to extensive forum coverage and articles, has an excellent tech and diy section.

RE:PSM -- the switch is the whole idea of PSM, that it can be shut off if you wish. What the dealer is referring to is the traction control element, and that remains involved (IIRC) even without PSM. In the desert I think PSM would be useful depending on how you want to drive -- if you're a hotfoot and tend to overdrive your abilities (as Shifty said), it's probably a good safety device. But if you stay within your abilities it really serves no purpose that I can see ... other than for unplanned emergencies, of course. There are two options I like for that reason: PSM and litronics. JW

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, at Edmunds we show the PSM as a $1,200 (and change) option.

Probably having it would be good for resale value, but I personally would never order it since I never want a computer to take control of the car from me. Modern cars are bad enough already with how much they are isolating the driver. So I feel buying these things will only encourage manufacturers to take away further control from you, turning "driving" into "steering". Benz is getting dangerously close to my worst nightmare in that regard already. "Intelligent Cruise Control" makes me shudder.

But that's just me, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of any driving decision I make. Hey, it's my Porsche and I'll pay for that piece of desert I might chew up.

Hmmm...now what car do you think has "caught up" to the Boxster S? I know there are cars with good or better numbers but I haven't driven one that is as sweet to go on the road yet. Am I missing something?

jwilson1

I certainly agree with what you say -- but I think someone should add that for the "typical" driver many of the 'safety devices' can be beneficial. I have enough track experience to be sure I'd be comfortable with you driving & cornering at speeds where I'm just not able to go and be confident because you have a lot more experience.

In addition, there are a whole lot of people who've never been near the driving "edge," don't know where the edge is, or what their car will do when it reaches the edge -- those drivers are the ones the price of PSM is a value for I think.

That said, between MBs insistence on automating the automobile and BMWs insistence on turning the dash into a terminal, I will never consider either one. JW

boxsterlover

I would have to say that Rennlist.com is the best website I have seen for Porsches, even better than P-car.com which seems more geared to the slant-nose 911s. Rennlist is so good that I might have changed my buying had I known, but I didn't do too badly. I too, was interested in a 911 but thought that a good used one was too pricey and that one day I would get a "regular" car with all-wheel drive for winter driving, etc. If that doesn't happen, I may trade up in the future for one but for now I am absolutely crazy about the Boxster. Just can't wait for spring to break out to unleash it.
I think that the market for these cars is improving constantly and whereas the Boxster is like a well-crafted Swiss watch, some other makes, Honda, Nissan, BMW and even MB for example are offering similar to even slightly better performance at close to the same level of refinement. Porsches though are unique and I can see why they have such a devout following. Also it is the only one of the group with the engine not in the front which makes it a different driving experience. Though I could get passed by a Subaru WRX, that isn't the point. Come to think of it, that would make a great winter car.

monkstermann

Hey Boxsterlover, please give me a discription of which Boxster you've got (I assume you own one) & equipment schedule etc. etc.
Did you find it on Rennlist? I'm leaning on certified pre-owned for the warranty extension reasons;
Thanx

jwilson1

Just to be sure you're aware -- AAA, for one, offers a very good (and reliable) extended warranty at just about the same as what you'll pay for the Porsche certification, and the Porsche program only lasts an additional two years. JW

Mr_Shiftright

I think the Boxster S is way prettier than any of the competition and I find the total driving experience the most enjoyable in a Box. Sure, maybe not the fastest or the highest Gs or whatever, but that's just cars on paper. You buy a car strictly on paper stats and you can get really disappointed sometimes. These cars are pricey though, I have to say, so I can see why people opt for something else. If you can get 95% of a Boxster for 75% of the price, hey, that's not irrational thinking.

boxsterlover

This is the Boxster I bought. It is a 2003 back Boxster S with Savanna Beige standard leather, 18" wheels, CD shelf, wheel caps with colored crest, floormats, cruise control, PSM, heated seats, Bose Digital w/windstop and Xenon headlamp package. I added a K40-2000 Undetectable radar/laser detector. The car had only 120 miles on it. I did not get it via Rennlist but through the Porsche dealer website, specifically, Hoffman of Hartford, Ct. He had a another nice '03 Boxster S but it didn't have PSM which I wanted so I passed. Don't get me wrong, I think the Boxster is a gem of a car but without the discount, I would have been looking at a regular Boxster and the comparison with other vehicles would have been more difficult. Incidentally, Hoffman had several regular Boxsters in his showroom. There was another dealer just outside Philadelphia who also had several pre-owned Boxsters.

jwilson1

Sounds like you got a beautiful car! Now if we can just get rid of the snow.....JW

ds2k1

how much did you get this car for, out of curiosity? sounds like a beautiful car.

monkstermann

jwilson thanx for the input. I did a google search and the company I called said they didn't/couldn't provide coverage in California!##** Didn't have time to call another one as work interfered; anybody out there know if this is correct? Mr. Shiftright maybe??
Boxster lover: it does sound like you got a nice car. What discount did you receive? Was it "used" or a "demo" or because it was an '03 and the 04's were in the showroom? Monk

boxsterlover

I paid $49,800 plus tax for the car. Technically, it is a new car because it was never titled which means that I get a new car warranty and the clock starts when I take delivery. The dealer's invoice which I got from Porsche Cars North America says $50,881 and the dealer's MSRP was $58,515 so exactly how much of a discount I received is subject to debate but it was just slightly over my budget. It was probably a demo or the owner's wife used it as a second car or something. The dealer was very fair and even paid for the first tank of gas. Incidentally, with regards to the car pulling to one side upon acceleration, I haven't noticed it on my car. Hope this is helpful.

Mr_Shiftright

God, you guys are giving me the Porsche itch again...

Sorry monstermann--what was your question exactly?

monkstermann

Mr Shiftright. My question was about an aftermarket certified warranty for Porsche used cars. {Assuming a purchase from a private party or non-Porsche dealer) I did a Google search and the 1st company I called said that they couldn't offer one because California didn't allow it! (seems pretty illogical to me, but then again he had a heavy non-American accent and w/all the "outsourcing" going on could've been truly mis/uninformed.) I didn't have time to call the next one on the list to verify so I thought I'd talk to the experts here at Edmunds!! (stroke-stroke) I know you won't let me down. (pressure-pressure)
Monk

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm... I think I'll pass the buck here if you don't mind and send you over to the Warranty board. I'm sure someone there has already gone through this:

Warranty Board

shifty

jwilson1

Does AAA operate in California? Some extended warranty places aren't so 'reliable.' So whatever you decide, stick with the big names. JW

uswaiter

How would you characterize the Boxster S handling behavior?

I got a used 2000 Boxster S late last summer. All of the sports car magazines characterize Boxster handling as mild understeer at the limit. My Boxster S hangs it's rear end out at the limit, and although it doesn't spin, I call that behavior oversteer. I've driven Porsche 944, and 3-series and 5-series BMWs, and would characterize their behavior as neutral or mild understeer; but it seems to me that what I'm seeing in the Boxster is something else; namely oversteer. I find oversteer in cars somewhat disconcerting.

Comments?

jwilson1

with Porsches has been dependent on speed and tires as well, of course, as suspension. Assuming the second two are the same, I've found most to suffer pretty heavy low-speed understeer and light oversteer at higher speeds. Assuming you're getting oversteer at lower speeds, without inducing it with power or throttle-off technique, I'd check the tire model and inflation to see if they meet factory specs, and perhaps check to see if the suspension has been modded. JW

docbdi

I just purchased a 2004 Boxster and love it! I have a few questions. First, does anyone have a cover that protects the car in snow and winter weather? If so, is it a Porsche cover or do you recommend some other manufacturer which stretchs and goes on easy with little difficulty? Second, I seem to get sound only from the dash speakers. I have Hi Fi sound and see speakers on the doors. I tried the fader but nothing changed. Any instructions or advice?

designman

Congratulations on you new Boxster! If you only have front speakers I don't believe you are going to get fade, only right/left balance. This is how it is on my 02 anyway. Play with the bass/treble and you should get sound (bass) from the door speakers. It's not profound, but it's there. I have my bass turned up more than normal and I'm not one who likes a lot of bass. If there's any doubt, take it to the dealer, run through it with them, and listen to other Boxsters they have in stock.

When you get this issue settled, drop the top, cruise by the hamburger stand, put on a Beach Boys CD and play "Fun, fun, fun 'til her daddy takes the Boxster (woops) T-Bird awa-a-a-a-y!)

Good Luck!