Subaru Crew: Suggestions for Subaru

subearu

on the Camry hybrid - I think they are planning 100k a year.

-Brian

rsholland

am I the only one who thinks it is a little odd to be so concerned about hybrids when such a huge portion of the yearly autosales are SUVs and trucks that get horrendous gas mileage?

Toyota already has a Tundra V8 hybrid in the works. It's just a matter of time before we see hybrids in those vehicles too. GM has announced a hybrid Silverado will be coming to market shortly. Although GM is just tip-toeing at this point, as their hybrid Silverado (from what I've read) is hardly earthshaking. At least it's a step in the right direction.

I'm willing to bet you my friend, that in 10 years time hybrids will hold their own in sales, and won't be considered just another automotive contraption.

Bob

locke2c

meet me in the cafe! we'll have very little to do with suggestions for subaru in short order.

nygreg

My comment about making mature choices was squarely aimed at the "SUVs and trucks that get horrendous gas mileage" crowd. I laugh every time I pull up to the pump next to a SUV, which is every time.

G

ateixeira

What's funny is when you arrive after them, fill up, and leave before they do. That's what a 44 gallon tank will do for you.

-juice

nygreg

toboggan

Coming down from Duluth to the Twin Cities this past Sunday, I was running about 75MPH as there were some strong cross winds. Guess what type of vehicles were passing me going on average 80MPH?? Give up??? SUV's, 4X4 pickups. One 4X4 crew cab was pulling a 6 snowmobile covered trailer (scary). I would have been running faster (~78-80mph) but had the ski box on top. Talk about a collection of gas hogs!!

My gas mileage was 22.3 mpg on that trip. I could have run for a month on all that gas that was geing burned.

MNSteve

jrosasmc

I've come to the conclusion that of all the boxer engines Subaru has produced over the years, the best ones in terms of durability and peformance are the current 2.5-liter OHC, introduced in '99, and the awesome WRX engine. I also liked the 2.7-liter 6 in the old XT6, but you don't see many of them anymore.

paisan

I think the most durable so far are the 2.7L H6, the 3.3 H6, and the 3.0 H6 for NA motors and the 2.2t from the Legacy/22b.

-mike

ateixeira

I disagree about the Phase II SOHC EJ255 being the best engine in terms of durability, in actuality the gasket issues probably put it among the worst (of a good batch) of Subaru engines.

Torque is very good for its size, so yeah, performance is good.

But look at the any H6 Subaru has made, they've had fewer problems. The EZ30 in the VDC and LL Bean are bullet-proof and don't have the gasket issues of the EJ255.

So far the 2.5T engines (EJ257) haven't shown any issues.

Honestly? I'd rank the H6 first, then the 2.5T, then the 2.0T, and then the 2.5l last.

Subaru is standing behind them, as they should, and covering them for 8 years 100k miles, so I still recommend that powerplant. I just don't think it's the best Subaru engine, not even close.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

-juice

jrosasmc

Is the Phase II the 2.5-liter DOHC unit first seen in 1996?

jrosasmc

Oh my mistake, it is SOHC.

ateixeira

The DOHC was used until 1998 in the Forester and Impreza and until 1999 in the Legacy and Outback. After that both went to SOHC.

We own one of each.

-juice

jrosasmc

I drive a Volvo 850 and I once was beaten by an Impreza 2.5 RS on the highway.

ateixeira

Non-turbo? The 850 is a lot heavier and the base engine made something like 168hp. The RS has 165hp so I'm not surprised.

-juice

jrosasmc

Yes, my car is a non-turbo. 168 hp in a 3300-lb. car is adequate at the most.

jrosasmc

I'm sure even a regular Impreza L of late-'90s vintage with the 142-hp 2.2-liter would clean my clock on a track.

bigelm

The weight alone is what killed you... 165HP is not alot on a car but because the RS is a light car, it has advantages... as you saw.

oregonboy

So where does the 2.2 fall in the list of great Subie engines, regarding durability and reliability?

My sister is considering an older Legacy or Outback. Are any particular mid-90's Subarus better (or worse) choices?

ateixeira

That's one of the top engines, also.

Really it's the same block as the 2.5l, so it's over-engineered. I'd pick that as my "budget buy" for Subie engines.

Check the seals and gaskets. Any 2.2l this old that is clean will probably never leak.

-juice

jrosasmc

I just drove my mom's Volvo S70 home for her because of the major snowstorm we are having in VT as we speak...even with traction control, this car did okay, but not spectacular, in the white stuff. I saw plenty of Imprezas, Outbacks and the like go through it like it was nothing.

ateixeira

Volvo has a good AWD system optional. It makes a world of difference. I've driven them back to back and would not settle for the FWD model.

-juice

rsholland

I would like to see Subaru move to using dent/ding-resistant fenders and door skins, like those used by Saturn.

Bob

njswamplands

ateixeira

Subaru has used cladding instead.

Saturn's panels mandate wider gaps that most customers associate with poor quality. Indeed, the minivan won't have them, and Saturn will phase them out.

-juice

rsholland

Why would a wider gap be needed? That doesn't make sense. Maybe it's just Saturn's lack of quality control?

As to cladding, that's fine for dings on the lower door/fender, but not the upper door/fender, and not all Subies have cladding.

Bob

ateixeira

Apparently the plastic expands/contracts at a different rate than metal, so wider gaps are needed. It created a scenario where perceived quality was poor, so Saturn is dropping them.

-juice

locke2c

I would think it is a cost issue.

~c

nygreg

It's always a cost issue.

greg

zor

The thermal coefficient of expansion for most plastics is two orders of magnitude greater than that of steel. I like exterior plastics where I need see-through bullet-resistance, but I'd shy away from it in place of sheet metal.

At least Subarus are largely galvanized. Are any of you having rust problems where you get dings or chips through the paint?

-Zor

rsholland

One of the points I've been preaching about is that the Baja needs to have "real" utility for the average person; and nothing illustrates this fact better than the ability to handle 4'x8'paneling.

The current Baja's inside bed width is 49" wall-to-to-wall, certainly wide enough to accommodate 48" wide paneling (the '06 Baja will most likely be a bit wider, as per the '05 Outback). However, there are wheelwell indentions that eat into that space, roughly 3" per side. I would suggest that Subaru push those wheelwell indentions out (increase the track) so that they are flush (disappear!) with the inside bed walls. This would mean that there would be a bulge on the outside of the rear fenders much like that seen on dually-equipped pickups. The fender bulge would not, however, be that extreme; but it would certainly exist. I would also extend the bed length enough (and wheelbase too!), so that when the switchback is down, and the tailgate is down, you would have 97" length when the bed extender is in place. Then make the switchback opening the same 49" width as the bed, beef up the rear end at bit, add the self-leveling rear suspension, and... voila! A Baja that is 4'x8'-friendly!

As a marketing bonus, the beefy-looking rear fender bulges will now signal to those skeptics that just maybe this dog can now hunt.

Bob

ateixeira

It's interesting that Chevy is marketing the Colorado as a mid-size pickup. Seems like Dodge already did, so maybe they're taking pot-shots at Subaru for the Baja being so small?

-juice

lark6

Chevy ought not take shots at Subaru, given that they sell rebadged Foresters as Chevies on the Indian subcontinent.

I wonder if the new Equinox will be viewed as a Forester competitor? I imagine so if it is targeted at the Escape/Tribute.

Ed

ateixeira

Equinox has a much longer wheelbase and a lot more rear legroom, but the cargo area is small. Kind of the opposite of the Forester. It's also V6 only. So they're fairly different.

Marketing doesn't always look at ownership, remember the Subaru ad that showed the Grand Am crash test (poor) and said competitors were banging their heads up against the wall?

-juice

paisan

The canyon isn't a chevy. It's just another rebadge. It was designed (except for the engine) by Isuzu.

-mike

rsholland

Another point to ponder: On or about the '06 Baja's debut, so will the 7-passsenger crossover debut. As we all know Subaru is a master of parts-bin swapping to arrive at new and different models. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the new Baja, even though it will still be Outback-based, shares some beefier components from the crossover -- such as the (wider) rear suspension I mentioned above.

Bob

ateixeira

I think that's what's required for a volume pickup. Question is, what would it cost? Subaru would have to de-content to bring it down to pickup pricing, maybe $26k or so.

Given the 7 seater is supposed to start off at $30-33k, I don't know how they could get there.

I will say this - get it right, or don't even bother. Start with the current Baja turbo and add utility and size all over the place.

-juice

rsholland

will be packed with luxury gizmos. That I don't expect that in the Baja. However, the Baja certainly could benefit by sharing some of the 7-seater's HD mechanical components. I mentioned the rear suspension, but also perhaps the tranny and some other stuff too.

Just by removing all the extra Baja-specific cladding Subaru could save a bunch. If the front bumper and the subtle front wheelwell cladding from the Outback were used, then there's extra (development/production/inventory) savings too.

Bob

ateixeira

If the rear track were wider, than at least the flares and cladding could be justified.

-juice

rsholland

from the "B" or "C" pillar forward, with the exception of the grille insert, it was pure Outback, there would have to be savings.

The current Baja has it's own front bumper, front wheelwell and door cladding. I'm saying get rid of that, and use what the Outback is using. Only from the "C" pillar to the rear bumper it would be Baja-specific.

Bob

dwcolorado

I'd like to see electronic stability control (VDC) across the entire Subaru lineup ... auto/manuals, limited/non-limited, etc. At the very least it should have been on ALL the 2005 Legacy/Outbacks to compete with the competitors.

Personally, after I heard about the 2005 Legacy/Outback GT’s and saw one at the car show, I wasn't even going to bother shopping the competition until I realized I wouldn't be able to get a manual transmission with stability control! Too bad as the nearest Subaru dealer is 2 miles from my house, while all the competitors are over 50 miles away.

dwcolorado

I forgot to add that if stability control (VDC) were added across the lineup, it should probably have an on/off switch, so as not to upset the hardcore Subaru enthusiasts who race/autocross their cars and don’t always want stability control.

p0926

So the fact that you can't get VDC in a manual Subaru would really prevent you from buying one?!?! Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing but I've gone 3 decades without VDC and have managed not to lose control of any of my vehicles ;-) So sure VDC might be a nice-to-have option but it would be way down on my list of priorities when buying a new vehicle.

-Frank P.

dwcolorado

I live in the mountains of Colorado. We get our first snow in September and I've seen it snow 2 inches on the 4th of July. So yes, because my wife and I end up driving in the snow, ice and slush on a regular basis, the lack of VDC availability in a manual subaru has made me seriously start considering a base model Passat 4motion or A4 quattro instead.

IMHO VDC is the same as an airbag ... hopefully won't ever need it, but sure will be glad to have it if I do.

ateixeira

I agree, they should spread it around across the lineup.

Do keep in mind the Passat 4Mo costs more, and it's an option so make sure the one you get has the option.

-juice

bluesubie

He lives in the hills of Western NJ and sees anywhere from 4-5+ feet of snow every winter.
His wife chose an LL Bean and he said he's never felt the need for VDC.

-Dennis

p.s. - I've heard that VDC engages automatically above a certain speed, even when it's off.

volkov

That is something designed to save you in a catastrophic event. VDC's arguably more like ABS, and it can't defy physics if you really get out of control. I've never blown an airbag, but I've freaked out traction controls and VDC in vehicles I've test driven. In the case of the VW, it almost felt like it was fighting me, and I found it rather unsettling. As with ABS, there are different qualities and character depending on the manufacturer. I'd hurry up and test drive while you can still find snow covered parking lots as a real guage of how things feel in the road conditions that matter to you. If you are an experienced winter driver, you may not like it.

Nicholas

paisan

Have you ever driven a subaru in the snow? How do you know you need VDC on a subaru if you've never driven one or lost control of one?

-mike

ateixeira

Never lose control? What fun is that? )

Just gimme the off switch.

-juice

paisan

The VDC system uses the VDC system to make a psudo rear LSD. The problem is if you turn this off for track events you loose the LSD properties. If you leave it on, you overheat the break fluid. I experienced this with the E55 even with the MB Traction control turned off.

-mike