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Comments
I doubt RL owners are shopping for a track car, VDC also.
-juice
The niche car maker who made a stake with AWD is now getting surrounded by the hordes. Since the wraps are off AWD and almost everyone is trying to take a piece of Subie's market. Toyota/Lexus have AWD in the G35 probably soon in the Camry? Honda just annouced their SH-AWD system for the Acura RL, just a matter of time before it shows in the Accord.
Here are my ideas, and what order they should be brought to market.
The mysterious 7 Pass Wagon/SUV/Van whatever? It had better come correct with lots of features, safety, performance and luxury. Pull out all the stops. 2 Models Sport & Luxury
Upgraded, luxury Legacy STi to match the S4's M3's etc
Hybrid Impreza, Outback.
They need a large car/truck platform. I would size it like the Q45 or new VW Phaeton or Cadillac STS, a bit larger than the E-Class or 5 series. You can add a truck to this platform, one with true HD capability, Durango like. B11s engine platform
To save costs. Ideas?
Remove Outback from Impreza line
Offer only WRX line for Impreza .
Remove NA H4 except for Hybrid
Remove Outback Sedan
Offer 2 model style levels -
One for Sport = Turbo H4 drivetrain, sport suspension, sport features (leather and alcantra)
One for Luxury = NA H6 drivetrain, sport/luxurity suspension, luxury features (leather,suede, aluminum)
Anybody see this video? It's 10:45 long and in Japanese, but it illustrates how this system works quite well, even if you don't understand Japanese.
Also interesting, is the car in the video with the SH-AWD is not an '05 RL, but instead a LHD V6 US-spec Accord! If Honda decides to equip our Accords with this system, it definitely will spell trouble for the Legacy.
No question, the AWD advantage that Subaru has enjoyed over the years is about to evaporate. The thing about this new Acura/Honda AWD is that they may have actually beaten Subaru at their own game here, and that's scary. Subaru has always promoted their AWD as a driving advantage year-round. Well it appears this new SC-AWD follows that same thinking, with the added advantage of sending all rearward power to the outside wheel when cornering (check the video). So when you're accelerating through a curve, each front wheel receives 15% of the power (30% total to the front), and (up to) 70% of the power goes to the outside rear wheel. That's smart IMO.
Also, unlike some other so-called "smart AWD's, there is always some power being sent to both the front and rear axles.
Bob
Bob
-mike
PS: AWD is nothing new for Toyota and Honda... Remember the All-track Corolla and the Honda Civic AWD? They didn't sell well, and disappeared after a few years.
Bob
-mike
~c
Bob
Greg
(1) Land Rover’s Terrain Response system (4WD): This optimises driveability and comfort, as well as maximising traction. The driver chooses one of five terrain settings via a rotary switch on the centre console: a general driving program, plus one for slippery conditions (known as ‘grass/gravel/ snow’) and three special off-road modes (mud/ruts, sand, rock crawl). Terrain Response then automatically selects the most appropriate settings for the vehicle’s advanced electronic controls and traction aids – including ride height, engine torque response, hill descent control, electronic traction control and transmission settings.
(2) swiveling headlights.
Usually for off-roaders, the 4x4 system is just a hi-low affair, with maybe full-time capability thrown in too. It looks like LR has taken 4x4 drivetrain tuning to a new height, by fine-tuning the drivetrain, depending on what kind of off-roading you happen to be doing (sand vs rock crawling). Interesting. Let's see how it pans out.
As to turning headlights, it's certainly nothing new, as the '47 Tucker had this feature too. However, I've noticed several big-ticket carmakers now incorporating this re-discovered feature in their cars. LR is just the latest.
I'm wondering if either of these new features might make their way into future Subies? I don't think a 5-stage off-road system would be necessary, but perhaps a 4-stage (normal, slippery conditions, sand/offroad, towing/hauling) would be possible.
Bob
-mike
-mike
Time to put the Impreza on Weight Watchers.
-juice
Impreza- Slightly smaller/lighter than current models
Coupe
Sedan
Wagon
2.5/2.0t/2.5t motors
Legacy/Outback- As is for 2005
Sedan
Wagon
OB Wagon
2.5/2.5t/3.0H6 motors
Paisan- Larger than the legacy platform, wider, longer along the lines of a full-size vehicle. Sedan/Coupe would be a normal car-type item just a large sedan, wagon would be raised up/variable raised system 7 passenger along the lines of the pacifica wagon or an old caprice-sized vehicle. These models would get the goodies everyone always is begging for Nav/HID/gadetry and be Flagship vehicles. They'd compete with the Volvos/Audi A6s/etc. and be stickered in the low 30-mid 30s.
Coupe
Sedan
Raised-wagon
3.0H6/3.5H6/3.5H6t Motors
D-max based SUV 7-passenger with truck frame
SUV, AWD standard, Low-range gearcase for true offroading.
3.5L V6DI
D-max based Pickup Truck same motor etc as above.
-mike
i wished subaru had a slightly larger wagon that fit 5 more comfy when i was shopping last august...
-mike
Greg
-Dennis
The other camp calls it boring and derivative, and is asking for something more imaginative.
I like the 2005 Legacy, but a Saab owner just came by my desk and saw my new brochure, then asked, "when are they coming out with a new Legacy". So he couldn't even tell it was new.
-juice
It seems that most new AWD adapters are either adding AWD to cars with existing FWD architecture in order to limit the shortcomings of FWD, or are adding AWD primarily to improve driveability in inclement weather. Therefore, Subaru can continue to exploit two niches.
1. Very high performance vehicles at reasonable prices, such as the WRX and the new Legacy GT, with numerous STI permutations possible.
2. Building crossover vehicles with what I call true "real world" off road capability. This looks like the direction for the new Outback. These cars would not necessarily be aimed at rock crawlers or recreational off roaders, but aimed at people who for work or other outdoors recreational activities (hiking, camping, fishing, hunting, canoeing etc.) end up driving on the rougher USFS roads or on private logging trail type roads.
I do a lot of this type of stuff for work and play, and based upon what I have learned so far would much rather be in my Forester or preferably a new Outback XT with 8.7" of ground clearance than any other cute ute or family oriented crossover.
As I said it looks like Subaru is already aiming this way, and I think this is the ticket to keep the company viable.
Symmetrical AWD sounds nice, but doesn't tell you enough about the capabilites of the system. Sure most of the enthusiasts can find the information, but the general population probably doesn't know enough details.
A few years ago, I went to an Audi dealer and was pretty impressed by their Quattro brochure. Not some short blurb in a catalog, but an entire booklet about Quattro.
Speaking of off-road, the 99 Outback was one of the few Subes to have a metal engine underguard as an option. Now they're all plastic.
-Dennis
Who knows...
-mike
We all sit here and talk about how this design may be inferior to Subaru's, but I had no idea what Honda's "Real Time" AWD design was until I started researching it (still don't know what the #%&@ "real time" means). I prefer the Sube design and performance, but most car buyers won't even come close to tripping the CR-V's AWD function on their test drives. We've seen our profiles, we are the analytical/technical/pragmatic types by and large. Most car buyers aren't. The overwhelming majority of consumers will just say, "OOH it has all wheel drive", and that will be the extent of the research. Well, maybe they'll look at the diagram in the brochure. Until Bob at the water cooler starts saying, "I here that Subaru has the best AWD design", the rest will be irrelevant.
You always have to contain costs etc, but I think interior finish is where Subaru's need work. I personally think the standard level interiors look real cheap, and I'll bet that probably kills more first look sales than anything. My wife was really disappointed by the quality feel of the OBS interior given it's $$. Only good news is that most other brands are cheapifying down to meet Sube.
In the end though, it will be marketing and looks that really define the success of the future brand. Without that, they'll remain niche to a few loyal followers. I think what many want is to see the gospel spread.
My $0.02
Nicholas
The new Legacies and Outbacks also look pretty darn sweet. In general, I like the moves Subaru has been making.
I'm just a little worried about that new nose...
(Harping on this I'm starting to sound like Ballistic talking about the gearing on the XT).
No disagreement there. The one I tried was leather and nicely done. But that's not the "base" or "standard" finish. I hope the '05 Legacy is better updated than the Impreza was in '02. I think those interiors still look dated.
Love the interior black treatment on the Rex though, but again, that's an upscale item.
Nicholas
the automatics have a variety of implementations, with the VDC being at the topic of the technical heap.
~c
-mike
As for Forester interiors yes, the current-gen cars at all trim levels (X, XS and XT) are nicer than the L and S interiors in the first-gen cars. Time will tell if they are more durable.
Ed
Seriously, just because a system is so complex you need a PHD in engineering to understand it doesn't automatically mean it's demonstrably better than its simple manual counterpart.
Just my .02,
-Frank P.
None of this 100% FWD until after slippage.
I hope it stays that way. Starting to get CAFE nervous now.
-Dennis
p.s. re interiors. If you look back to the late 90's Subaru's, the interiors have improved dramatically . Still a little catching up to do though.
-mike
Funny thing is the Audi TT doesn't really use Quattro at all, it uses VW's 4Motion. And the Passat doesn't use 4Motion, it uses Audi Quattro.
So even they have a bit of an identity crisis.
-juice
The interior of the '97 OBS was dramatic. :-D
-Dennis
The interior of the '97 OBS was dramatic. :-D
-Dennis
They are now begining to get the rep as the performance brand.
Again going forward to gain broader appeal and market share, it's the concept of style and presige that needs to be improved. The days of Subaru being a cheap little sturdy durable runnabout are over. They still have to present reliability / value and bang for buck but they also have to offer a level of luxury and prestige that people want in an aspirational car.
They are on the bubble but need to get firmly into the premium car segment like Acura, Infiniti, Saab, Volvo Saab. They might not get to true luxury like Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Jag, Lexus but they need that extra.
The key is to keep the faithful from traitoring? to other brands as the prices goes up. That shouldn't be a problem as long as the content goes up. At this point they still need to make sure they offer more car for the money than others.
I for one will be looking at the 7 passenger Adirondank, or Montauk or Surveyor or whatever they will call it. But i will be shopping it versus the SRX and the Dodge Durango. We need the room.
-juice
Greg
* Self-leveling suspension should be made standard on all Outbacks (except Outback Sport) and all Foresters. It's now on the Bean Forester, so let's spread it around next year.
* Limited models should get a Nav system.
* Base GTs and XTs should have a moonroof.
* All turbos (WRX and F-XT too) and H-6s should have HIDs.
* Drop the Outback sedan
* Bring over Legacy H-6 Spec B with 6-speed manual/5EAT)
* 6-speed manuals for all turbos.
* 5EATs to replace 4EATs across the board.
Bob
Put self-leveling shocks on all models that are pre-wired for towing. That would be all Foresters and Outbacks.
Make the moonroof a stand-alone option on non-Limited models. Last year you could not get a Legacy without one, now you have to spend a fortune on a LTD model to get one at all?
I disagree with Bob about the HIDs. Give your customers coupons for discounts on LASIK eye surgery. The projector beams are fine. They could be an SPT option, or something saved for the VDC model only.
I like the other suggestions.
-juice
Bob
Bob
Can't wait to see the sales split. I bet the turbo outsells the H6 by 3 to 1.
-juice
Greg
I'd go for the H6 over the H4 turbo except that the H6 is currently not available with a manual tranny.
Jim
-Frank P.