I suspect that satellite radio will eventually become an option in most cars. As to your other points... I'm not so sure that Hondas are significantly more dependable. The mileage on an AWD off-road capable Honda wagon probably wouldn't be much different than the Outback. I thought the new 05s stacked up pretty well in the amenities category, is there anything in particular that you'd like to see? IRT a 4-cyl LL Bean, I can only guess that Subaru wants to position that particualr model as more upscale, hence the bigger engine. Of course one of the best things about driving a Subaru (as compared to Honda) is that every third car on the road isn't one
Funny, when I went to buy my 04 Forester XT, I wanted both leather and a moonroof but to get them I had to buy an auto which I didn't want. I guess enough people complained since Subaru began offering those options with the 5-spd in the 05 models. However, if not having leather was your only show-stopper, the good news is that aftermarket leather is easy to add (which is what I did) and is as good or better than factory.
I also wanted leather when I bought my 2005 Forester. I also would have liked to have the hard surfaces in the luggage area and a load leveling suspension. But I wasn't about to have to go to an LL Bean and take a moonroof to get these things. So I got an XS instead and have suffered with that moquette upholstery and too-hard seats since.
Now the 2006 version is on the way. I might almost have been persuaded to take the hit of trading after only one year in order to get the improved engine/transmission, quieter ride, better seats and the like. But no-o-o-o-o-o, The people at Subaru (those friendly folks who brought us Pearl Harbor) have, in their infinite wisdom, decided that now one must even take a moonroof in order to get such vital items as the all-weather package, a power driver's seat, decently-sized side mirrors, better sound, etc. This sort of bloody-minded thinking just leaves my lower jaw dangling from disbelief at the sheer stupidity of some marketing types. And I thought Toyota was bad!
It must have been thirty or forty years ago that I saw a cartoon created from a photo of the Japanese surrender ceremony aboard the USS Missouri. Above the head of one somber Japanese diplomat the cartoonist had drawn a word balloon with the words: "Oh, well, there's always transistor radios."
One might almost bring that cartoon up to date with a larger word balloon containing something like: "They may have won this one, but we'll get even . . . in a few decades we'll get 'em hooked on Japanese cars, then mess them over with our option packages."
7 Steps To A Perfect Luxury Car, well at least in my opinion and well maybe 8 steps if you prefer wood over plastic, but anyway here is my wish list for the 2007 model:
1) Add telescopic steering. Needed badly for tall drivers with long legs.
2) Rear hatch glass that opens. (what were they thinking?)
3) Auto up/down driver controls for ALL windows.
4) Auto dim mirror standard. hmmm . .
5) Rear rubber bumper guard standard . . again hmm...
6) Auto headlights on
7) Leather (instead of rubber) center arm rest.
I'm sure everyone will have a somewhat different list, but after a day with my limitred 7 with NAV/leather, this is my list. I still am glad I bought it and I understand that for the price they have to leave some stuff out, but I would have rather payed a bit more and had comparable options to most of the other so called "luxury" SUV's in the $30-45,000 price range. The final price would still be well below the competition. Anyone else care to give their list? 0h, did I mention roof rack cross bars not being standard equipment?
It's been a while, six months, if not more, for me to post a wish list for future Subarus. Blame it on the above Tribeca post, as it got me thinking about this again.
Speaking of the above post regarding the Tribeca, I certainly agree items: 3 , 4, and 5. The others I could take or leave. In any event, here's some more for the Tribeca (Dave Sullivan, are you listening?):
• Most people seem to agree the Tribeca needs an engine with more power down low, so that it isn't constantly downshifting when more power is asked for. There are several ways to do this, but my choice is simply a larger H-6, as it's probably the least expensive way to achieve this. If you take the N/A 2.5 H-4, and simply add two more cylinders, you end up with a 3.7L H-6. I would expect it also to get the same type of sophisticated cylinder head goodies that the current 3.0L H-6 has (DOHC, AVCS, timing chain, etc.). By doing this you will end up with an engine putting out around 260 – 270 horsepower and around 250 foot-pounds of torque or more.
An engine like that would be a huge improvement over the current 3.0 unit. I would also be willing to bet that it would get better real-world gas mileage too. Don't get me wrong, the 3.0 unit is an excellent engine—but not in a 4200 pound vehicle.
• Having a 3.7 engine would also allow Subaru to tweak the chassis so that it could have an optional 5K towing (to match the XC90 and ML350—two Tribeca targets). Throw in an electronic integrated trailer brake control (a la Ford Super Duty truck), and it would be perfect. Sorry folks for bringing up this old bugaboo of mine, but I just couldn't resist. And besides, a little constant reminder to SOA from time-to-time doesn't hurt.
• Another old hot-button issue with me is the lack of a full-size spare. I can certainly see why they didn't offer one, as there isn't really any room under the vehicle for a full-size spare. This does beg the question, however: Where is one supposed to put a very wide, and very flat full-size tire in the event of a tire failure, if it won't fit underneath where the spare came from?
Frankly, I would be willing to give up the shallow under the floor storage area, by the rear bumper, if it could be re-engineered to fit a full-size spare. Please give it some thought...
• Oh, and lets not forget my constant request for a dual-range tranny too. That can only help in pulling a 5K boat trailer up a steep boat launch ramp, not mention that occasional off-road excursion (such as deep soft sand on the beaches of North Carolina's Outer Banks—where SUVs do go off road).
• The 5K towing, full-size spare, and dual range tranny could all be bundled as an optional package. Or perhaps be offered as part of a future B9 Tribeca "LL Bean" trim level?
• Speaking of LL Bean: Since the LL Bean models use wood accents inside, I would like to see the LL Bean rear deck badge to use a dark oak wood-looking background (in place of the black backaground) with gold lettering (in place of the silver lettering), so that the badge/logo related better to the inside of the vehicle.
Okay, now that the Tribeca has debuted, and we've seen the pricing, we're starting to get a better picture of what Subaru means by "premium" (not luxury, but premium). With that in mind, here's what I think is likely to happen, or hope will happen as the Subaru products evolve over the next few years:
Tribeca In addition to what I listed above, and besides the LL Bean model I mentioned, I would love to see a "Spec B" version with 50 or 45 section 19" tires, sport suspension, and a 6-speed manual. I mentioned that to Dave Sullivan (the Tribeca Brand Manager at SOA), and he doesn't think there would be much of a market for such a vehicle. Your job (should you choose to accept it) is to convince him there is indeed a market!
Outback Assuming Subaru does develop a larger (3.7L?) engine for the Tribeca, I would also like to see it offered on the top Outback models. Here's the engine models I would like to see:
All Outbacks would be offered with 5EATs, and all but the LL Bean model would also be available with a HD 5-speed manual.
Legacy Here's the engine models I would like to see:
Legacy 3.0GT Spec B VDC with a turbo putting out ~ 300 hp. Legacy 3.0GT VDC with a turbo putting out ~ 300 hp. Legacy 3.0i Limited VDC Legacy 3.0i VDC Legacy 2,5i Limited VDC Legacy 2.5i
All Legacys would be offered with 5EATs. The 3.0GT models would also be available with a 6-speed manual. Other models would be available with HD 5-speed manuals.
Forester Here's the engine models I would like to see:
Forester LL Bean would get the current Outback 3.0 H-6 w/5EAT. Forester XT would get current Legacy GT engine and trannys. Forester X would keep existing engine but get the 5EAT as an option.
All Foresters would be offered with 5EATs, and would be standard in LL Bean. Other models would be available with HD 5-speed manuals.
Impreza Here's the engine models I would like to see:
WRX STi would get its current powertrain upgraded to ~ 330 hp. WRX would get current Legacy GT engine, 5EAT and 6-speed manual. 2.5i would keep existing engine but get the 5EAT as an option.
All Imprezas (except the STi) would be offered with 5EATs. 2.5i models would be available with the HD 5-speed manual.
Baja Hopefully it will remain, and be built off the Tribeca platform, and be inspired by the Honda Ridgeline.
Others? Legacy STi? Forester STi? I'm not sure about those models. Maybe? Maybe not?
Outback Assuming Subaru does develop a larger (3.7L?) engine for the Tribeca, I would also like to see it offered on the top Outback LL Bean model. Here's the engine models I would like to see:
An Odyssey-sized AWD minivan that will seat 8 adults comfortably, built off the Tribeca platform w/3.7 engine.
i love my odyssey but i really need awd that can get me up hills and not drop me off a cliff. the sienna has awd but reminds me of the ford windstar sway that made my family green in the mountains.
i, for one, could really use this vehicle NOW as i need to get out my odyssey before winter but currently dont have a option i like in this area. SUV's suck gas too much, trifecta is too small.
As most of you know, I'm hoping Subaru doesn't give up on the pickup idea, despite the Baja's failure to find acceptance in the marketplace.
I stumbled upon this over at cardesignnews.com. It's a showing of pickup concepts, specifically a future Ford Ranger, that was done by the College of Creative Studies, a leading Transportation Design school in Detroit.
What caught my eye is the first concept shown here, designed by Michael Gillam. Besides really capturing Ford "Big Rig" styling cues, I really like the visual separation of cab and bed—again reflecting big-rig trucks.
It seems all pickups have done their best to blend the pickup bed into the vehicle, so that it disappears, or at least tries to disappear. It's almost as if truck designers are embarrassed that this is a truck and so they try to hide that aspect.
Gillam however, rejects that idea entirely, and embraces the bed, and proudly shows it off for what it really is. I like that. A lot...
If Subaru ever does decide to do another pickup, I would suggest they give this idea some serious consideration.
Yeah, there was someone that had to cross the B9 off of their list in the B9 forum. He drives on the beach and a full size spare is required.
Speaking of the beach, I picked up my annual fishing pass for the beach again this year. It's my second time on the sand with the 225/55/17's. They are much better than the OEM's in the soft stuff and I let out less air than I did with the OEM 215/60/16's. Plus I have slightly more ground clearance as well.
Okay, no matter how much I loved the engine and auto transmission on a Legacy GT, I could not bring myself to buy one. Especially as the car was at the top of my price range these are the areas I has issues with:
The seat on the non-limited (I actually would have preferred cloth with no sunroof) does not have a manual tilt feature, without this I could not get comfortable. If I were able to upgrade to the limited (and I did love the taupe leather), then the seat should have two driver memory settings (come on, how much would a memory feature really add?). Can we have a 12-way power driver seat and an 8-way passenger seat please? That said, the seats in both non-limited and limited are both short and should have more thigh support by making the seat deeper. I think this is an area that would benefit all subarus.
The audio unit! Oh dear the audio. It looks very nice built in the way it is, but iffy sound quality, lack of connectivity and the impossibility to replace it make it poor. Very disappointed to find that I can not add satellite radio to this (as an option or even after market without doing surgery to the car), nor can I add a portable music player. A simple aux input on the front would have helped this. At minimum Subaru need to offer an audio upgrade on this car (AS THE UNIT CAN NOT EVEN BE REPLACED BY AN AFTERMARKET UNIT) that provides MP3/WMA/(OGG - I know nobody provides this but I like OGG and the codec is free!) music CD, satellite radio ready (preferably include it - XT or Siruis as options) plus an aux input on the front for a direct wired portable music player. I would also like the radio to displace RDS station information. An option to plug in a hard disk based "phatbox" would be nice as well. It is about time subaru got in touch with modern digital music conveniences these days. Can you put a McIntosh back in this as an option??
There should be auto up/down on both of the front windows (I actually do not like auto up/down on the rear as it annoys me in my Audi). Auto down driver only is just cheap...!
The 12v/lighter should be repositioned so that I do not need to open a flap to access it.
Lets make the ash tray an option and delete it from the car so that non-smokers have an additional storage space. I find this wasted space and the car is severely lacking in storage compartments.
I like auto dim rear mirrors, so if I have to pay extra for in on this car (which I would have done) then I would like auto dim on both side mirrors as well (such as on my Audi).
Some things I could live with but would prefer not to, but the seats and the audio system (no upgrade options and inability to swap it out) made these items deal breakers.
And IIRC, he was also cross-shopping the Lexus and M-class.
A spare tire in the cargo area would take up too much room. Need to have maximum room for fishing gear and a big cooler for those giant Striped Bass. Although I saw an SUV last weekend with a big cooler on the roof. Yeah, that's easy access!
Funny you should mention that. Years ago, Subaru used put the spare under the hood, and on top of the boxer engine. This was back when Subies used small 13" rims and with much smallers tires—and yes, it was full-size spare too.
Found this over at nabisco. It's from someone who is a Subie dealer over in Sweden:
Thanks for the info Mr Lopinus. I visited Subaru Allrad Auto, Friedberg last week and Mr Gajic were showing us the new 2006 Forester. They had 3 "pilotcars": Two 2.5XT and one 2.0X. I agree that the 2.5XT with beige leather looks really good! The new 17" wheels combined with the front grill and the redesigned taillights makes the new Forester look more classier. On the verge of Lexus RX 300! Good news is also the option for automatic transmission with Sport Shift and VDC. However do we get the auto transmission/Sport Shift and VDC for the Impreza 2.0R and 2.5 WRX? Beige leather wouldnt hurt either for the Impreza! Cheers Martin in Sweden
So the facelifted Forester in Sweden get's 17" wheels, SportShift and VDC... Why can't we get that stuff too? I swear, SOA can be so frustrating sometimes...
Exactly what's missing from the US models. And the CR-V and RAV4 both have stability control standard, so they let the Forester fall behind in this area.
Back when my wife and I were first married and ahd to replace our old (but cheap) car we had looked at a Subaru GL that had the spare under the hood! To this day, I still remember that, plus the salesman's spiel as to how much safer that makes the car.
Mark, when juice and I were at the Detroit Auto Show, I asked Dave Sullivan why the Tribeca didn't have a full-size spare. His answers was, that because the Tribeca has such a wide tire, that using a full-size spare would great reduce the angle of departure. He's absolutely right about that.
This raises an interesting question: With the Tribeca being so tall, and thus having a higher hoodline, would it be possible to reengineer the under hood space to accommodate a full-size spare? I don't know if that is possible due to all the extra complexity now found under the hood (emissions, etc.). Still it's an interesting question...
And speaking of under-the-car spares, I just had a situation with my Explorer (which also has an under-the-car spare) which clearly has me now dead set against these solutions: The car was in for service the other day, and the mechanic noticed that they could no longer lower the spare down, as the cranking mechanism either broke or rusted so badly that it was impossible to use. The cheapest solution was to cut the chain, and get the tire out. So now my spare is sitting in the trunk, and will remain there taking up a huge amount of space until I get a new vehicle.
I much prefer that the spare reside in a weatherproof tub under the floor—and accessed from inside the car—like all other Subies. I think Subaru really needs to rethink the spare situation on the Tribeca.
I personally feel Subaru has to rethink the spare on ALL Subaur's. A full size spare is required, especially if they are pushing the off-road capabilities.
As all the long-timers here know, I've been asking for fullsize spares on all Subie sold here for years. In most other overseas markets, most if not all Subies come with fullsize spares.
Angle of departure shouldn't be an issue as this is not an offroad vehicle. I just checked one out at my dealer yesterday and it's a nice competition for the Murano/RX330/etc But it is in no way an "offroad vehicle" so putting a tub large enough for a full sized spare in the rear wouldn't be an issue.
Interestingly enough, the leather seat fabric is the same exact fabric as in my Nissan Armada, as is the headliner material. Nissan and Subaru often share parts so I'm guessing they have the same supplier of the interiors as well.
Now the question is, when will that 2.5XT with VDC and Sportshift make it our way?
This is the first application of VDC to the 2.5l turbo engine, even the Legacy GT does not have that yet, though it's half way there with VTD AWD. Up until now the H6 has been a pre-requisite for the full-blown VDC.
Plus this is still auto only, they haven't yet mated VDC to any manual tranny at all.
I've often wonder why some of the more sophisticated stuff like VDC, etc., doesn't seem to find it's way on to manual-equipped vehicles.
The other day I happened to visit Nissan's UK site to check out the new UK-spec Pathfinder, and discovered their All-Mode AWD is standard on all models, including those with 6-speed manual trannys over there. So there's hope—at least overseas there is...
are having second thoughts about buying a Tribeca because it's too small. One person in fact just canceled their order. Subaru really needs to offer a full-fledge minivan—and quick!
a relatively easy solution for those who need more room than what the Tribeca offers, is for Subaru to offer a long-wheelbase version, with more 3rd-row seat room? Think of a Chevy Tahoe vs. Suburban kind of thing, but not to that extreme.
The current Tribeca has a wheelbase of a tad over 108 inches. If they also offered a version, with say a 115 inch wheelbase, and with real-adult-friendly 3rd-row seats (and leg room); I bet that would that would address those with space issues of the current model.
Should it have a sliding door? Maybe, maybe not. A sliding door would certainly scream "minivan," be that good or bad. Staying with a conventional rear door would suggest SUV better, and perhaps would better reinforce the Tahoe/Suburban-like relationship that I mentioned.
Perhaps the current (short-wheelbase) Tribeca would be rebadged as the Tribeca GT, and the long-wheelbase version the Grand Tribeca (or something like that).
i know some people hate those minivan doors but they sure make getting into and out of the vehicle very easy and one does not need a ton of room on the side of the vehicle as the doors slide back.
also the 2nd row captain chairs sure make getting to the 3rd row very easy compared to some suvs were you almost have to dive into the 3rd row.
also some people really like sitting up way high but with my in-laws limited mobility anything taller than my odyssey is very difficult to enter/exit. the '04 fxt is a perfect height for them to get in and out easily.
it would be a dream if subaru had something in this arena as the only thing close is the heavily leaning in corners sienna or monster gas sucking american tanks
It would bridge the gap between crossover and minivan. It's clear from the posters here at Edmunds that the current Tribeca's 3rd-row seating just doesn't cut for many here. For me the current Tribeca would be fine, but not so if my kids were younger.
I think a Subaru AWD minivan would be great- drop in the turbo and you could conceivably have a 'fun' minivan. It wouldn't have to be king sized like the Nissan-Toyota-Honda ones. Maybe a little bigger than the current MPV would be nice.
Maybe they could make an Outback version- like the old MPV.
I'm considering something bigger right now, and if Subaru had an AWD minivan, I'd buy it. The Tribeca is definitely too small, and I don't want something huge.
Oh well, I might just have to buy something huge and live with it.
Good idea. I just picked up the 04 Armada and to be honest I love driving it. It handles about 90% as well as any subaru I've driven on the street with it's rear indy suspension, yet it has a ride like a caddy for up to 6 full-Paisan adults. Towing, Power, features, comfort. Too bad Subaru didn't have anything remotely close to it...
-Dennis p.s. - I almost messed around with the thing called Prodigy thinking that I would hear some techno, but figured it might be for the trailer brake.
From what I read around, especially this semi-silly discussion about alleged sinking fortunes of Subaru, one thing comes up all the time: model configurations. And I agree. It almost looks like a sabotage from FHI against SoA (or at least against the customers), where they don't bring some of their best stuff (like Spec B with manual with H-6 engine on Legacy/Outback) to the single largest market (others being Europe, Japan, rest of Asia, etc.) or make some of the strange configs (have to get leather to get sunroof, no manual with Ltd. trim, etc.). And it looks, a lot of people are saying it, begging them for change, but either SoA/FHI are totally deaf and blind, or don't care. Same with standard/optional equipment: one would think telescopic steering wheel is not that difficult to do, especially if you don't have to rely on unionized workers in Michigan. Apparently, in Gunma ergonomics are different than in Stuttgart or Munich.
I thought about this "upmarket" thing and I suspect they really do not mean what they say. It is more posturing than essence. It is nice to shoot for the best and measure against them occasionally, but they could spare me some of those silly comparisons and idiotic "Germany in mourning".
When you come to a site like this, you get enthusiasts that don't necessarily show a representative sample of your normal customers. We crave the performance models, manual transmission, and higher-end stuff like HIDs, Nav, DVD, etc.
They conduct marketing studies with a random sample of customers, which is a more scientific sample, and then determine what to sell.
If it were up to us the lineup would look something like this:
Forester XT with cloth and unpainted bumpers, 6 speed manual only WRX STi wagon only, 6 speed manual only Legacy GT, 6 speed or 5EAT (the only concession) Legacy STi, 6 speed manual only Legacy Spec B, 6 speed
etc.
A very fun but not very practical lineup. Our suggestions and product planning would have them in the poor house.
I do, however, believe that there is a major halo effect that cars like the STi create that is very difficult to measure. I also think a Legacy STi would do the same for that lineup.
When SoA approaches FHI, it's a tough sell. "We will lose money on the Spec B, but we want to sell it anyway" is not going to be a strong enough argument.
Comments
-Frank
-Frank
Now the 2006 version is on the way. I might almost have been persuaded to take the hit of trading after only one year in order to get the improved engine/transmission, quieter ride, better seats and the like. But no-o-o-o-o-o, The people at Subaru (those friendly folks who brought us Pearl Harbor) have, in their infinite wisdom, decided that now one must even take a moonroof in order to get such vital items as the all-weather package, a power driver's seat, decently-sized side mirrors, better sound, etc. This sort of bloody-minded thinking just leaves my lower jaw dangling from disbelief at the sheer stupidity of some marketing types. And I thought Toyota was bad!
It must have been thirty or forty years ago that I saw a cartoon created from a photo of the Japanese surrender ceremony aboard the USS Missouri. Above the head of one somber Japanese diplomat the cartoonist had drawn a word balloon with the words: "Oh, well, there's always transistor radios."
One might almost bring that cartoon up to date with a larger word balloon containing something like: "They may have won this one, but we'll get even . . . in a few decades we'll get 'em hooked on Japanese cars, then mess them over with our option packages."
Check the options list on a Dodge or a Ford truck. They are several pages long. Bring caffeine-free Excedrin.
-juice
1) Add telescopic steering. Needed badly for tall drivers with long legs.
2) Rear hatch glass that opens. (what were they thinking?)
3) Auto up/down driver controls for ALL windows.
4) Auto dim mirror standard. hmmm . .
5) Rear rubber bumper guard standard . . again hmm...
6) Auto headlights on
7) Leather (instead of rubber) center arm rest.
I'm sure everyone will have a somewhat different list, but after a day with my limitred 7 with NAV/leather, this is my list. I still am glad I bought it and I understand that for the price they have to leave some stuff out, but I would have rather payed a bit more and had comparable options to most of the other so called "luxury" SUV's in the $30-45,000 price range. The final price would still be well below the competition. Anyone else care to give their list? 0h, did I mention roof rack cross bars not being standard equipment?
Speaking of the above post regarding the Tribeca, I certainly agree items: 3 , 4, and 5. The others I could take or leave. In any event, here's some more for the Tribeca (Dave Sullivan, are you listening?):
• Most people seem to agree the Tribeca needs an engine with more power down low, so that it isn't constantly downshifting when more power is asked for. There are several ways to do this, but my choice is simply a larger H-6, as it's probably the least expensive way to achieve this. If you take the N/A 2.5 H-4, and simply add two more cylinders, you end up with a 3.7L H-6. I would expect it also to get the same type of sophisticated cylinder head goodies that the current 3.0L H-6 has (DOHC, AVCS, timing chain, etc.). By doing this you will end up with an engine putting out around 260 – 270 horsepower and around 250 foot-pounds of torque or more.
An engine like that would be a huge improvement over the current 3.0 unit. I would also be willing to bet that it would get better real-world gas mileage too. Don't get me wrong, the 3.0 unit is an excellent engine—but not in a 4200 pound vehicle.
• Having a 3.7 engine would also allow Subaru to tweak the chassis so that it could have an optional 5K towing (to match the XC90 and ML350—two Tribeca targets). Throw in an electronic integrated trailer brake control (a la Ford Super Duty truck), and it would be perfect. Sorry folks for bringing up this old bugaboo of mine, but I just couldn't resist. And besides, a little constant reminder to SOA from time-to-time doesn't hurt.
• Another old hot-button issue with me is the lack of a full-size spare. I can certainly see why they didn't offer one, as there isn't really any room under the vehicle for a full-size spare. This does beg the question, however: Where is one supposed to put a very wide, and very flat full-size tire in the event of a tire failure, if it won't fit underneath where the spare came from?
Frankly, I would be willing to give up the shallow under the floor storage area, by the rear bumper, if it could be re-engineered to fit a full-size spare. Please give it some thought...
• Oh, and lets not forget my constant request for a dual-range tranny too. That can only help in pulling a 5K boat trailer up a steep boat launch ramp, not mention that occasional off-road excursion (such as deep soft sand on the beaches of North Carolina's Outer Banks—where SUVs do go off road).
• The 5K towing, full-size spare, and dual range tranny could all be bundled as an optional package. Or perhaps be offered as part of a future B9 Tribeca "LL Bean" trim level?
• Speaking of LL Bean:
Since the LL Bean models use wood accents inside, I would like to see the LL Bean rear deck badge to use a dark oak wood-looking background (in place of the black backaground) with gold lettering (in place of the silver lettering), so that the badge/logo related better to the inside of the vehicle.
Bob
Tribeca
In addition to what I listed above, and besides the LL Bean model I mentioned, I would love to see a "Spec B" version with 50 or 45 section 19" tires, sport suspension, and a 6-speed manual. I mentioned that to Dave Sullivan (the Tribeca Brand Manager at SOA), and he doesn't think there would be much of a market for such a vehicle. Your job (should you choose to accept it) is to convince him there is indeed a market!
Outback
Assuming Subaru does develop a larger (3.7L?) engine for the Tribeca, I would also like to see it offered on the top Outback models. Here's the engine models I would like to see:
Outback LL Bean 3.7R VDC
Outback Limited 3.7R VDC
Outback 3.0i VDC
Outback 2.5i Limited VDC
Outback 2.5i
All Outbacks would be offered with 5EATs, and all but the LL Bean model would also be available with a HD 5-speed manual.
Legacy
Here's the engine models I would like to see:
Legacy 3.0GT Spec B VDC with a turbo putting out ~ 300 hp.
Legacy 3.0GT VDC with a turbo putting out ~ 300 hp.
Legacy 3.0i Limited VDC
Legacy 3.0i VDC
Legacy 2,5i Limited VDC
Legacy 2.5i
All Legacys would be offered with 5EATs. The 3.0GT models would also be available with a 6-speed manual. Other models would be available with HD 5-speed manuals.
Forester
Here's the engine models I would like to see:
Forester LL Bean would get the current Outback 3.0 H-6 w/5EAT.
Forester XT would get current Legacy GT engine and trannys.
Forester X would keep existing engine but get the 5EAT as an option.
All Foresters would be offered with 5EATs, and would be standard in LL Bean. Other models would be available with HD 5-speed manuals.
Impreza
Here's the engine models I would like to see:
WRX STi would get its current powertrain upgraded to ~ 330 hp.
WRX would get current Legacy GT engine, 5EAT and 6-speed manual.
2.5i would keep existing engine but get the 5EAT as an option.
All Imprezas (except the STi) would be offered with 5EATs. 2.5i models would be available with the HD 5-speed manual.
Baja
Hopefully it will remain, and be built off the Tribeca platform, and be inspired by the Honda Ridgeline.
Others? Legacy STi? Forester STi? I'm not sure about those models. Maybe? Maybe not?
Bob
Assuming Subaru does develop a larger (3.7L?) engine for the Tribeca, I would also like to see it offered on the top Outback LL Bean model. Here's the engine models I would like to see:
Outback LL Bean 3.7R VDC
Outback Limited 3.0R VDC
Outback 3.0i VDC
Outback 2.5i Limited VDC
Outback 2.5i
All Outbacks would be offered with 5EATs, and all but the LL Bean model would also be available with a HD 5-speed manual.
Bob
• A larger luxury sedan built off the Tribeca platform, using the 3.7 engine. Maybe even a turbo version?
• A smaller "fun" AWD car positioned under the Impreza. Sort of Subaru's take on the Mini Cooper. Something in the 1600cc range.
• A roadster like the B9SC concept car.
• A luxury Neo-SVX-like 4-place GT, inspired by the B9 concept car—but with much more toned down and refined styling.
• A Wrangler-like small 4x4. Perhaps co-developed with Hummer, and sold under both nameplates?
We know Subaru is working on hybrids and diesels, so they are already in the works.
Bob
i love my odyssey but i really need awd that can get me up hills and not drop me off a cliff. the sienna has awd but reminds me of the ford windstar sway that made my family green in the mountains.
i, for one, could really use this vehicle NOW as i need to get out my odyssey before winter but currently dont have a option i like in this area. SUV's suck gas too much, trifecta is too small.
I stumbled upon this over at cardesignnews.com. It's a showing of pickup concepts, specifically a future Ford Ranger, that was done by the College of Creative Studies, a leading Transportation Design school in Detroit.
http://www.cardesignnews.com/features/2005/050530ccs-show/index.php
What caught my eye is the first concept shown here, designed by Michael Gillam. Besides really capturing Ford "Big Rig" styling cues, I really like the visual separation of cab and bed—again reflecting big-rig trucks.
It seems all pickups have done their best to blend the pickup bed into the vehicle, so that it disappears, or at least tries to disappear. It's almost as if truck designers are embarrassed that this is a truck and so they try to hide that aspect.
Gillam however, rejects that idea entirely, and embraces the bed, and proudly shows it off for what it really is. I like that. A lot...
If Subaru ever does decide to do another pickup, I would suggest they give this idea some serious consideration.
Bob
Speaking of the beach, I picked up my annual fishing pass for the beach again this year. It's my second time on the sand with the 225/55/17's. They are much better than the OEM's in the soft stuff and I let out less air than I did with the OEM 215/60/16's. Plus I have slightly more ground clearance as well.
SoA really needs to offer 17's on the Forester.
-Dennis
Dennis excellent point! I had forgotten about that!
Bob
The seat on the non-limited (I actually would have preferred cloth with no sunroof) does not have a manual tilt feature, without this I could not get comfortable. If I were able to upgrade to the limited (and I did love the taupe leather), then the seat should have two driver memory settings (come on, how much would a memory feature really add?). Can we have a 12-way power driver seat and an 8-way passenger seat please? That said, the seats in both non-limited and limited are both short and should have more thigh support by making the seat deeper. I think this is an area that would benefit all subarus.
The audio unit! Oh dear the audio. It looks very nice built in the way it is, but iffy sound quality, lack of connectivity and the impossibility to replace it make it poor. Very disappointed to find that I can not add satellite radio to this (as an option or even after market without doing surgery to the car), nor can I add a portable music player. A simple aux input on the front would have helped this. At minimum Subaru need to offer an audio upgrade on this car (AS THE UNIT CAN NOT EVEN BE REPLACED BY AN AFTERMARKET UNIT) that provides MP3/WMA/(OGG - I know nobody provides this but I like OGG and the codec is free!) music CD, satellite radio ready (preferably include it - XT or Siruis as options) plus an aux input on the front for a direct wired portable music player. I would also like the radio to displace RDS station information. An option to plug in a hard disk based "phatbox" would be nice as well. It is about time subaru got in touch with modern digital music conveniences these days. Can you put a McIntosh back in this as an option??
There should be auto up/down on both of the front windows (I actually do not like auto up/down on the rear as it annoys me in my Audi). Auto down driver only is just cheap...!
The 12v/lighter should be repositioned so that I do not need to open a flap to access it.
Lets make the ash tray an option and delete it from the car so that non-smokers have an additional storage space. I find this wasted space and the car is severely lacking in storage compartments.
I like auto dim rear mirrors, so if I have to pay extra for in on this car (which I would have done) then I would like auto dim on both side mirrors as well (such as on my Audi).
Some things I could live with but would prefer not to, but the seats and the audio system (no upgrade options and inability to swap it out) made these items deal breakers.
Kerry.
A spare tire in the cargo area would take up too much room. Need to have maximum room for fishing gear and a big cooler for those giant Striped Bass.
-Dennis
But seriously, test fit the full sizer in the donut's location.
-juice
That would be a good dealer installed option.
Funny you should mention that. Years ago, Subaru used put the spare under the hood, and on top of the boxer engine. This was back when Subies used small 13" rims and with much smallers tires—and yes, it was full-size spare too.
Bob
Thanks for the info Mr Lopinus. I visited Subaru Allrad Auto, Friedberg last week and Mr Gajic were showing us the new 2006 Forester. They had 3 "pilotcars": Two 2.5XT and one 2.0X. I agree that the 2.5XT with beige leather looks really good! The new 17" wheels combined with the front grill and the redesigned taillights makes the new Forester look more classier. On the verge of Lexus RX 300! Good news is also the option for automatic transmission with Sport Shift and VDC.
However do we get the auto transmission/Sport Shift and VDC for the Impreza 2.0R and 2.5 WRX?
Beige leather wouldnt hurt either for the Impreza!
Cheers
Martin in Sweden
So the facelifted Forester in Sweden get's 17" wheels, SportShift and VDC... Why can't we get that stuff too? I swear, SOA can be so frustrating sometimes...
Bob
-juice
Back when my wife and I were first married and ahd to replace our old (but cheap) car we had looked at a Subaru GL that had the spare under the hood! To this day, I still remember that, plus the salesman's spiel as to how much safer that makes the car.
Mark
This raises an interesting question: With the Tribeca being so tall, and thus having a higher hoodline, would it be possible to reengineer the under hood space to accommodate a full-size spare? I don't know if that is possible due to all the extra complexity now found under the hood (emissions, etc.). Still it's an interesting question...
And speaking of under-the-car spares, I just had a situation with my Explorer (which also has an under-the-car spare) which clearly has me now dead set against these solutions: The car was in for service the other day, and the mechanic noticed that they could no longer lower the spare down, as the cranking mechanism either broke or rusted so badly that it was impossible to use. The cheapest solution was to cut the chain, and get the tire out. So now my spare is sitting in the trunk, and will remain there taking up a huge amount of space until I get a new vehicle.
I much prefer that the spare reside in a weatherproof tub under the floor—and accessed from inside the car—like all other Subies. I think Subaru really needs to rethink the spare situation on the Tribeca.
Bob
I personally feel Subaru has to rethink the spare on ALL Subaur's. A full size spare is required, especially if they are pushing the off-road capabilities.
Mark
As all the long-timers here know, I've been asking for fullsize spares on all Subie sold here for years. In most other overseas markets, most if not all Subies come with fullsize spares.
Bob
Maybe get a bull bar and mount the spare tire in the front for those that want to hide the grille? LOL
Forester has a full sizer, FWIW.
I added one to our 2002 Legacy L - there is space, you just remove the styrofoam insert.
-juice
Interestingly enough, the leather seat fabric is the same exact fabric as in my Nissan Armada, as is the headliner material. Nissan and Subaru often share parts so I'm guessing they have the same supplier of the interiors as well.
-mike
-mike
-juice
Bob
This is the first application of VDC to the 2.5l turbo engine, even the Legacy GT does not have that yet, though it's half way there with VTD AWD. Up until now the H6 has been a pre-requisite for the full-blown VDC.
Plus this is still auto only, they haven't yet mated VDC to any manual tranny at all.
-juice
The other day I happened to visit Nissan's UK site to check out the new UK-spec Pathfinder, and discovered their All-Mode AWD is standard on all models, including those with 6-speed manual trannys over there. So there's hope—at least overseas there is...
Bob
Bob
The current Tribeca has a wheelbase of a tad over 108 inches. If they also offered a version, with say a 115 inch wheelbase, and with real-adult-friendly 3rd-row seats (and leg room); I bet that would that would address those with space issues of the current model.
Should it have a sliding door? Maybe, maybe not. A sliding door would certainly scream "minivan," be that good or bad. Staying with a conventional rear door would suggest SUV better, and perhaps would better reinforce the Tahoe/Suburban-like relationship that I mentioned.
Perhaps the current (short-wheelbase) Tribeca would be rebadged as the Tribeca GT, and the long-wheelbase version the Grand Tribeca (or something like that).
Bob
also the 2nd row captain chairs sure make getting to the 3rd row very easy compared to some suvs were you almost have to dive into the 3rd row.
also some people really like sitting up way high but with my in-laws limited mobility anything taller than my odyssey is very difficult to enter/exit. the '04 fxt is a perfect height for them to get in and out easily.
it would be a dream if subaru had something in this arena as the only thing close is the heavily leaning in corners sienna or monster gas sucking american tanks
-juice
Bob
Bob
Maybe they could make an Outback version- like the old MPV.
I'm considering something bigger right now, and if Subaru had an AWD minivan, I'd buy it. The Tribeca is definitely too small, and I don't want something huge.
Oh well, I might just have to buy something huge and live with it.
tom
Start with the base H4 Outback wagon and add the following:
- 5EAT w/ VTD & possibly VDC
- Moonroof
- Unique alloy wheels
DaveM
-mike
-Dennis
p.s. - I almost messed around with the thing called Prodigy thinking that I would hear some techno, but figured it might be for the trailer brake.
edit : Somebody say Subaru minivan?
http://www.subaru.net/owners/prototype/exiga.html
-juice
-mike
Yeah, since everyone steers clear of the big monster truck.
DaveM
-juice
I thought about this "upmarket" thing and I suspect they really do not mean what they say. It is more posturing than essence. It is nice to shoot for the best and measure against them occasionally, but they could spare me some of those silly comparisons and idiotic "Germany in mourning".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-mike
They conduct marketing studies with a random sample of customers, which is a more scientific sample, and then determine what to sell.
If it were up to us the lineup would look something like this:
Forester XT with cloth and unpainted bumpers, 6 speed manual only
WRX STi wagon only, 6 speed manual only
Legacy GT, 6 speed or 5EAT (the only concession)
Legacy STi, 6 speed manual only
Legacy Spec B, 6 speed
etc.
A very fun but not very practical lineup. Our suggestions and product planning would have them in the poor house.
I do, however, believe that there is a major halo effect that cars like the STi create that is very difficult to measure. I also think a Legacy STi would do the same for that lineup.
When SoA approaches FHI, it's a tough sell. "We will lose money on the Spec B, but we want to sell it anyway" is not going to be a strong enough argument.
-juice