BMW 1-Series

m1miata

Well I was thinking somewhere between $20K and $22K for the little car. Anything over that is ridiculous indeed. The Audi A3 is way overpriced for a little FWD car.
-Loren

fedlawman

Even a little 4-banger Miata costs over $23,000. Why should a 6 cylinder, 215-255 hp BMW cost less? I'm thinking about $28,000 for the "little six" and $31,000 for the "big six."

How about a twin-turbo 135i for $34,000? I'd be all over that!

dhanley

They have one testing in europe. Don't know if it'll come here or not...

C&D already pedaled the 335i sedan to 60 in 4.8. Assumedly a smaller, lighter 135 would be quicker. Isn't a miata mid sevens?

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=107290/pageNumber=6

Even the most basic 1-series six-banger is going to be quicker. Figure mid-sixes for a 128i.

fedlawman

The 335i is probably one the finest luxury performance sedans on the market. I love the car and the performance is impressive.

If only it weighed 500 lbs less...

Actually, I hope the 135i comes over here as a small coupe (235i?). At about 3100 lbs, it would be just about the perfect car for me. I've lately had my mind on a late-model Porsche (Boxster S, Cayman S, or 911), but with backseat space either very tight or non-existent in the cars from Stuttgart, a small BMW coupe would be a better fit for my lifestyle.

And still the question of whether to keep my M3 and add a new BMW or used Porsche to my garage, or sell my baby and splurge on a 997. Tough choices like this are probably why I just keep my M and fanatsize about the rest (that and the sheer joy of driving the M3).

If the 1-Series ever does come here, it'll mean much emotional turmoil for me...

kyfdx

..with a stick.. My wife hates hatchbacks and won't drive a stick..

It will be mine.... all mine!!!

wale_bate1

Give me the six cylinders, five doors and two-wheels at the rear powered. You can charge me up to $37K and change for a loaded one, I'll pay it.

The 3 has become a midsize. Smaller, lighter and quicker-stepping, with a dose of sporting comfies, that's what's needed here lads...

ateixeira

To be fair, the Miata was never about speed, and still isn't. Plus you can't compare a roadster to a hatchback.

Americans just do not accept hatches as "premium". The A3 is a small success, but still does tiny volumes if you look at the big picture.

By the way, BMW is supposed to be doing a Z2 to compete directly with the Miata.

-juice

fedlawman

I agree with you. My comment was referring to performance for the dollar (that even an entry-level BMW will still cost thousands more than a Miata).

I owned a 1994 Miata for almost ten years, and I never craved additional performance. Of the dozen or so "sports cars" that I've owned over the years, only the M3 is a more satisfying drive - and in sharp contrast to the Bimmer, I never turned a wrench on the Mazda!

ateixeira

I commute in a '93 and so far in 5 years I've spent $10.72 on a clutch slave cylinder rebuild kit.

-juice

elemoncelli

All I want is a Base 1 series 5 door with a diesel engine and a steptronic transmission (my feet cant handle 3 pedals).

A small city car that gets 40mpg while doing 0-60 in the mid to low 7s and includes RWD and the handling of a BMW....
oops! Watered the keyboard.

elemoncelli

I wrote BMW and this is what they wrote back.

Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding the 1 Series. We appreciate your interest in our vehicles.
BMW does not have plans to bring the 1 Series to the United States at this time. However, BMW is always dreaming of exciting ways to tempt and please its special customers. We are designing and building models destined to propel BMWs brand of power and style to a new level of driving pleasure. Please stay in contact with us through our website,
www.bmwusa.com, for product updates and releases.

If you have any further questions, please contact us at (address) or (phone number).

nyccarguy

they could be full of it. You won't get future product knowledge from BMW corporate. Take what they say with a grain of salt (a big grain). I wrote to them complaining about the lack of a "true" sports package and only AWD available on the 3 series wagon. They pretty much gave me the same cookie cutter response they gave you. About a month later I saw a RWD 328i wagon available with sports package.

autoboy16

I'm not 100% sure but if we did get the 128i, would its competition be:

A3
M-b A(B) class
Volvo c30
Acura rsx-s
ect? Like this video states and a few i threw in

-Cj

nyccarguy

Unless they offer the A3 2.0T here with Quattro (FWD only now), a RWD 1 series doesn't have much competition.

MB axed plans to bring anything smaller than a C Class here (SMART will be slated below the C).

No more RSX Type S

That C30 is cute, but drive it back to back with a BMW and I'm sure there will be a clear winner.

BMW offers excellent balance, RWD, and free maintenance for 4 years/50K.

elemoncelli

Found on Edmunds today
"Norbert Reithofer, BMW's new CEO, confirmed that the entry-level 1 Series will come to the U.S. but not in the hatchback form currently sold in Europe. He noted that the 3 Series is sold as a sedan, coupe and wagon. "We could have something like that for the 1 Series.

ateixeira

The wagon looks better than the hatch, anyway. The hatch is too short and the proportions look odd. The wagon is so small is looks like a better proportioned hatch!

-juice

sunilb

Not sure I really see much of a cosmetic difference (# of doors, aside):

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119209

Here's what I like...

The 120i gets an additional 20 hp and 7 lb-ft for 170 hp and 155 lb-ft. Both have fuel economy in the very impressive mid-40-mpg range.

170hp and 155lb-ft AND 40+ mpg!!! Sounds like a 21st century version of the E30.

Here's what I don't like...

But North American customers will have to wait; it won't be until next year, after sedan and cabriolet versions of the price-leading BMW are launched, that it will land in the United States.

Sedan? Blah! I like the 3- or 5-door version.

wale_bate1

a five-door or forget it.

C'mon BMW, listen up!

blue330xi

I like the three door best. Agree with whoever said turbodiesel steptronic. I think that this product may be a failure. Price too low and you cut into the mini sales. Price too high and you encounter too much near luxury competition which may sway buyers. No one wants a 1 for $30k+ but they would have to make it priced above the cooper S which starts at 22k can be optioned up to 32k with all packages.

qbrozen

I would also note that they need to watch for Volvo's C30. Pricing seems to be in the air, but the reports I have seen claim it will start somewhere around $23k-$25k. And that comes standard with the 220 horse turbo I5.

Seems to me like bimmer might be looking to relive their last hatchback if its priced too high. With 170 hp and a $25k pricetag to start, its too little for too much. Benz did the same thing with the C230, which is now axed.

I also agree a turbodiesel would be the way to go. But give me a true manual tranny.

wale_bate1

for bringing a five-door would be the Mini, and potential canibal activity. Or maybe not.

As a five-door, a la A3, I'm a candidate; RWD being the persuasive argument. As a three-door, I'm more drawn to something along the lines of a G35 coupe. IMO, the three-door looks cobbled and stubby, like a bit of an afterthought.

elemoncelli

Turbodiesel Steptronic, that was me! :shades:

I would have to see the cars for real, before making a decision, though the wagon sounds nearly perfect, 5 door practicality without looking so stubby. The three door I like a lot but I seem to have trouble getting out of 3 doors like the Mini. Their long doors give me problems. The 5 doors (Audi/VW/BMW) all look like the rear doors were afterthoughts. As if they thought "hey there's enough room for 4 doors!"

If I cant have a diesel steptronic can I please have a 120i steptronic that runs on regular? 170hp and 155lb-ft AND 40+ mpg. That sounds like I'd almost forget the diesel.

fedlawman

http://news.windingroad.com/body-stylesmarket-segment/hatchbacks/bmw-source-conf- irms-gti-killing-135i-for-us-market/

blue330xi

Personal preference aside (I like 3 doors) I compleatly agree with you, a 4 door could present a resonable argument for above mini price and marketing...I just hadent thought about that before. I tend to like slightly larger 4doors like my 3 series, but very small 3 doors. If they did drop a 300hp turbo (aka 335i) engine in, I would pay 30-32k for it... I still would rather have the little diesel. With the turbo I6 it would be a WRX/STI killer with luxery...now that would be cool, like the last gen M coupe. I think im the only one who liked it...

kyfdx

Doesn't look like we are getting the 4-door hatch, which is the one I would want...

My wife, however, would be perfectly happy with the sedan..

wale_bate1

Bah. Anyone can give you a sedan... :lemon:

blue330xi

what about the three door hatch? I might just consider that for my next car if it comes out. I am very happy with my 3 series but I like to have a complete warentee and service package at all times. This or the 335i will be my next car. Price difference does not matter so much to me but I dont want to get overcharged for a 1 series.

dhanley

"now that would be cool, like the last gen M coupe. I think im the only one who liked it"

I LOVED the last gen M coupe.

kyfdx

There is an entire group of M coupe lovers who meet every year...

The event goes by the name of DorkFest.. :P

kyfdx

I'm just saying...

blue330xi

Then I must be king dork. I think of it as a more fun hatch back (rwd and 300+ hp).
EDIT: I dont know what it is about it, when I look at it it makes me want to drive it, it just makes me happy whenever I see an M coupe. I should have bought one when I had the chance to get a new one.

kyfdx

I get that.. I've been attracted to a lot of cars that other people can't stand.. But, even being a BMW fan, I could never warm up to the M coupe..

Of course, I've never driven one, either.. I'm sure that would help..

wale_bate1

the Keds high-top!

I too, am a devotee of the sneaker-mobile. It has a hatch. Real cars have a hatch, just as real wheels have five spokes (each). :shades:

Truly, though, I've admired most variants of like vehicles over the years. MGB/GT, GT6, etc., all float my boat a tad more than their topless counterparts...

fedlawman

I'll take mine with 3 pedals on the floor and cloth seats please!

nyccarguy

I kinda dig the 3 door 1 series. That 235i is sweet too! I'll Take 3 pedals, the sunroof, & sport package!

wale_bate1

Me? DSG (under license of course), sport package and perfed leather please.

ateixeira

Meh, that looks like it could be the next Tiburon or something. Bring a roadster like the concept, what was it, CS1?

-juice

fedlawman

That spyshot is actually a couple of years old. In keeping with current trends, I'm sure the production version that makes it to our shores will be much less attractive.

blue330xi

If they do bring the 135i over to the US I hope the turbo 3.0 isnt detuned from the 335i spec.

blue330xi

a current 130i M sport in england weighs 1450kg or 3200lbs. A 335i sedan weighs 1610kg or 3550lbs, a 330i sedan weighs 1555kg or 3428lbs. So the turbo and all its hardware must add about 125lbs.
I dont think its unreasonable to conclude a 135i will weigh about 3325lbs. Thats over 200lbs less then the 335i. If they actually bring over the 135i we could have one heck of a little performance car. Car and driver got around 4.8sec to 60 out of the 335i, Maybe we could see 4.7 or 4.6 out of a 135i.

fedlawman

You know, I've never driven a turbo-charged car that I really liked. I recently spent some time behind the wheel of an Audi A4 with the highly regarded 1.8T four cylinder turbo.

I thought the throttle response was "laggy" and the flywheel effect too heavy - as though the throttle was detached from the engine, and revs were slow to wind up and decay.

Anyone here driven the new turbo N54 who can comment on turbo lag and throttle response?

kyfdx

I've never liked the 1.8 Turbo..

Have you tried a newer model with the 2.0T? Like night and day...

fedlawman

No, I don't know anyone with one of the newer VW or Audi turbos.

Are you saying the 1.8T isn't a good example of a lag free turbo? I hope so, because the new BMW mill interests me very much, but I'll avoid it if it feels even slightly artificial.

kyfdx

To me... every iteration of the 1.8T has been lethargic... though I have to say, I've never driven the 225HP version that they put in the top level TT..

The first one that came out in the early A4s was only 150HP.. Even the later models with 180HP seemed sluggish, all through the rev range..

You know how the TSX takes a little while to spool up, but then comes on strong? The 1.8T never comes on... period..

The 2.0T, on the other hand... seems very linear, with plenty of grunt, as well..

Just the way it feels to my butt-o-meter..

fedlawman

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I'm talking more about response at throttle tip-in vs. power delivery.

For example, in stop and go LA traffic in the 1.8T, it felt like there was a rubber band in between the gas pedal and the engine. And then, when the engine finally got the signal and started to respond, it lunged forward harder than I intended.

Definitely a "rubber band" kind of effect.

The TSX had good throttle response, even though power right at tip-in left something to be desired. At least the revs responded immediately when applying a smidge of throttle.

dhanley

Rubber band is precisely how to describe it. I used to have an old saab, and that was MUCH WORSE than the 1.8T. In some situations you could press the gas pedal and count "one one thousand, two one thousand.."

Compared to the 1.8T the 2.0T has, say, 80-90% less lag.

I thought the power of the 1.8T was ok in a light car like a stripped stick jetta. In an automatic passat? Not so much. I do like my cars to have some low-end grunt, though. I'm probably weird for thinking a base 240hp boxster feels weak down low.

blue330xi

there is hope, the turbo is variable vane. This means it will spool up much sooner then another non variable vane turbo of the same size. Look at the new mini cooper. It spools at 1500rpm with a like variable vane setup. Compare that to say a WRX STI which is lucky to spool at 2800rpm. Also BMW limits the boost at low rpm to give the engine a very linear feel. Others have written that they could not even feel the transition to + boost with the 335i but who knows without driving it. For what its worth the new 911TT went to variable vane as well. It wont be no lag, but it should be much less. But the disclamer comes that I have not driven it so I really don't know for sure. Also it is a 3.0l with decent compression which suggests it should have decent torque right off the bat.

EDIT: also while the VW's spool pretty low they are still smaller displacement (2.0l) so hopefully the added size of the 3.0 will help cover any torque loss at low rpm. On the other hand if I remember correctly VW builds long stroke engines to also add torque dispite small displacement (correct me if im wrong).

fedlawman

I'm hopeful that the the BMW is much improved over this type of laggy motor. Oh, you're not weird, I think the base Boxster is weak too.

Blue - I agree that cars with a larger motor probably suffer much less from this effect because of their larger displacement. Even the Subaru STi I drove was much less noticeable than the Audi, thanks to it's 2.5 boxer engine - it's got decent TQ down low even without the turbo.

BTW, the Audi I drove was a 1.8T convertible with slushbox - probably the worst possible combination of weight and gearing for that little boosted motor to try to propel.

I need to drive the 335i for myself to know for sure how a really good turbo mill feels. And then I'll remember that, however good it is, the 1 series will be that much better!

dhanley

Not variable vane, a quote from a BMW engineer:

"We also looked at variable vane turbos and other technology during development, but with our Vanos system these were unnecessary."

The lack of lag is because:

1) Direct injection lets them maintain a high compression ratio.

2) Boost isn't that high ( they took a 255 hp engine to 300hp )

3) There are two small turbos, so there isn't as much inertia to overcome.

Oh, fed, you drove a slush cabrio. That's slow.

Yeah, when i drove the box, my general thought was "this car is nearly perfect. Only a BMW motor could improve it. But seriously, off the line, my 2.8L sedan feels gruntier. Of course, over 3500RPM the box is much quicker. But will i have to make a racket to pass an odyssey? Seems wrong somehow.

blue330xi

dhanley is right.
http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredvehicles/160_0612_et_2007_bmw_335i_coupe/

serves me right for reading unconfirmed rumors on BMW forums. This makes me significantly less excited about the 335i. Still cool but not really ground breaking in any way... I should note its really more then 300hp according to the dyno, something like 325 or so but still 75hp or so is not much.... Im still excited about the 135i though. But I dont think I will be for long if it is more then $35k....