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During Jac Nasser's reign at Ford, the original plan was to have the Taurus grow into a larger vehicle stemming from a Volvo derived platform. But because of the pricy P2 Volvo platform, there would be no way for Ford to have kept the price low enough to what current Taurus prices are.
So in came the 500, a vehicle that would ideally have been able to compete against Chrysler LHS sedans, FWD and fullsize. BUT Chrysler is going RWD in that segment. Therefore Ford has mentiond the Avalon and Buick's to be it's main target. Advantage with Ford will be availability of AWD, plus interior room will be a bit greater.
The Futura will be Mazda6 derived which is a great thing. And will be packaged and targeted towards Accord and Camry buyer's. Again, both vehicles will make the most of their dimensions...Keeping tight exterior dimensions, yet have large interiors just as the Focus was able to do.
http://199.239.248.45//images/stk/2005/mc2005montego02.jpg
Much obliged.
But the Montego will be a 500 twin. Mercury has not yet mentioned the name for it's Futura twin.
Bret
I hope they forgetabout the Mistake....
The ION and Malibu are in completely different leagues in terms of interior design/materials quality. Personally, I'm not impressed with the picture shown in that link for the Montegos interior. The Freestar interior may have high quality materials, but it looks like its been lifted from some late 80s Toyota. I find the same with the Montego interior. Slap all the wood and pretty leather stitching on it you want, the basic design screams last decade (or two). No doubt though, the increase in quality is very welcome, and Ford seems to be leading the import mfr. assualt compared to DCX and GM.
~alpha
I *have* been in the Malibu and Ion, and while the Malibu is much better than the Ion and light years ahead of its predecesors, it still isn't as good as its competitors. The design especially is bland and uninspired.
The US is one of the homes of design. From the Apple I-Macs to I-Pods, to home design, to movies, to Target-ware the US produces world beating design. Why can't we do it in our automobiles?
Bret
I think LIncoln is doing it world class right now. Oops, except in the Town Car. Sorry.
So then it leads to, "well, if they actually built a good product, then some would"... And that's currently the perception that many will have to deal with for awhile. The onslought of bad products in the 80's and 90's from Detroit has soured many to a point where they are rather closeminded about it.
I actually have one friend with a Passat, she has sunk $7000 of her own money in that unreliable piece of garbage. At one auto parts store where I went to buy a part for her, someone had asked "has your Passat been reliable" she actually said yes! I turned to her with a wide eyed look on me, corrected HER in front of the guy, made her OPEN up her eyes and focus at the stupidity she just said. YET she doesn't like my american manufactured sedan that has never seen a repair center, because she says "oh it's just a Ford".
So this philosphy will require sometime, IF it's something people can get over. It'll take 10 years of Detroit improving in every segment, for the thinking to fade away.
Can Detroit pull it off? Surel.... just in 2-3 years GM and Ford have improved in efficiency reports, reliability ratings, initial quality ratings, even Consumer Reports (which I dislike because of their reporting methods) actually recommended the Focus as tops... This after the Ford has concentrated on improving the Focus... and they have... So conclusion: They can do it, depends on the effort.
I wish Ford would focus on the Lincoln car line, like they have the SUV line and get that aging Town Car spiffed up, and not forget about the wonderful LS for too long.
http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0312/29/insiders-20391.htm
But I can understand those mad at domestic makers. I wanted to replace my Contour SVT with a manual near-lux sports sedan. Where's the Contour SVT replacement, known as the Modeo ST220 in Europe? MIA here in the US. Other domestic options? Only one... The very good Cadillac CTS, which had a terrible interior and a local wheeler-dealership straight out of the 1970's. I went with a CPO BMW 3-series instead.
Look at the Detroit News article. The author talks about the present *and coming* vehicles. That's Detroit's biggest problem. They have no consistency. They make big pushes and then fall behind. Remember all the great cars the US makers had coming out in the mid-90's? The Chrysler "cloud cars," the Contour, the Focus, the W-sedans, etc. They came out and many were praised. Their replacements? Mediocre at best, if we yet have any replacements at all (the Regal/Impala et al are still around, we won't even get the European Focus replacement here, and it only took Saturn about 9 years to replace the S-series with the terrible Ion).
When instead of making a big push and redesigning a ton of models at once with much fanfare to only let them languish and flouder, Detroit instead should emulate the Japanese and European ethos of continuous improvement and quick turnaround times. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler can keep replacing their "yet to be released" models every four or five years with version as competitive as those from the rest of the world, then let me know in 2 or 3 generational cycles.
Otherwise, it'll be more woe if we're looking at roughly the same Malibu, Cobalt, Magnum, Durango, 500, and Freestyle in 2011 as we're seeing in 2004. Think they'll still be "competitive" then?
Bret
But I can understand those mad at domestic makers. I wanted to replace my Contour SVT with a manual near-lux sports sedan. Where's the Contour SVT replacement, known as the Modeo ST220 in Europe? MIA here in the US. Other domestic options? Only one... The very good Cadillac CTS, which had a terrible interior and a local wheeler-dealership straight out of the 1970's. I went with a CPO BMW 3-series instead.
Look at the Detroit News article. The author talks about the present *and coming* vehicles. That's Detroit's biggest problem. They have no consistency. They make big pushes and then fall behind. Remember all the great cars the US makers had coming out in the mid-90's? The Chrysler "cloud cars," the Contour, the Focus, the W-sedans, etc. They came out and many were praised. Their replacements? Mediocre at best, if we yet have any replacements at all (the Regal/Impala et al are still around, we won't even get the European Focus replacement here, and it only took Saturn about 9 years to replace the S-series with the terrible Ion).
When instead of making a big push and redesigning a ton of models at once with much fanfare to only let them languish and flouder, Detroit instead should emulate the Japanese and European ethos of continuous improvement and quick turnaround times. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler can keep replacing their "yet to be released" models every four or five years with version as competitive as those from the rest of the world, then let me know in 2 or 3 generational cycles.
Otherwise, it'll be more woe if we're looking at roughly the same Malibu, Cobalt, Magnum, Durango, 500, and Freestyle in 2011 as we're seeing in 2004. Think they'll still be "competitive" then?
Bret
The Focus was in 1999, for 2000, and the W cars date back to 1988.
"those won't be competitive anymore, as the newest versions of Passat, Camry, Accord, Pilot, Highlander and 4Runner will be out on the road.'
Nobody can claim that the US makes coming out now will stay around as long as the older cars. ALso, VW is falling behind with updates, the Jetta and Passat are now in their 5th/6th year. Who's to say the "new" Passat will will "All new" sooner?
That's *exactly* my point! The Detroit News article is arguing, somewhat, that the gap between domestic and import makers is really all image right now and not product based. Even if you buy that (and I'm not sure I do yet), I argue that until until the U.S. makers *update* just as frequently as the Japanese, the product gap (and thus the image gap) will be real. Wake me up in 12 years and we'll see if they've improved in this respect. Will we see the new third generation Cobalt or second generation Futura by then? As I said, history suggests that we'll be seeing only warmed over versions of our current "debut" products at that point (look the "new" Buick and Saturn minivans).
Regarding VW, you're right that they don't update as frequently as the Japanese either. BUT, VW's new products are usually class leading when they debut (the new Toureg has won several comparison tests, for example, as the Passat and Jetta did initially). Now, years later, the Passat is *still* winning tests and the new one is a year or two away. How many years did the BMW 5-series crush its competition from the get-go until the very end of its last generation? The otherwise very good CTS was still mid to rear pack in comparison tests on debut, and it still doesn't have a competitive interior (I would have bought it if it did). The current brand spanking new (and likely very competent) Malibu came in... seventh... in the recent Edmunds comparison. I'm sure it'll do much better in 2007.
Again, if the U.S. automakers want to have longer lead in times, that's OK if the products are world beaters out of the gate. But they aren't. They just "OK." I know our countrymen can do better.
Bret
PS: Look at the new US Focus. How can Ford bring over the new European Focus platform on the Mazda 3 and Volvo S40 and only "redo" the old Focus for the US? What does that say about how Ford views its US brand and their US buyers? Ford has an opportunity to crush its competition Chevy and Honda and lets it pass... A shame...
The Euro Focus, and NA Focus aren't that different. C1 vs. C170 platform. The media has painted as if the Euro Focus is vastly a different platform from the current one, as if it were a totally new vehicle....Ideally, they are almost the same except some structural reinforcements on the frontal area. No one would be able to tell the difference either way. Nothing a bit of suspension tuning, and noise insulation can improve on the NA Focus, to make it "feel" as if it were the Euro Focus.
And let's take in another point. IN europe, vehicles are mostly about quality over quantity. The Focus has techonology options that aren't available here. Mainly because people will stick to a specific size class of a vehicle, and manufacturer's cater them in various trims to suit all needs. Whereas in the U.S., people perceive "small "size as economy, and fullsize cars as luxurious. Some people can't understand why a VW Jetta can top $26K fully loaded with a V6, and still be classified as a sub-compact. Most american consumer's expect to jump into the full-size class, when reaching that price point....But this is a whole other topic on it's own.
We can't expect the N.A. Focus to be saddled with all this techological options. Let's be lucky it even has Advance-Trac available. Most consumer's will not pay for such options for a perceived "economy" sized car. So again, it's a different perception on the consumer's behalf.
Is their any word on how good the 500 and futura will be once they debut. How much effort has Ford really put into these vehicles.
Also, is the Futura scheduled for release in '06?? or '05??
Also, is the Futura scheduled for release in '06?? or '05?? "
Here's Ford Media Kit on the 500, you should read it and it'll tell you of the effort and engineering placed upon the vehicle.
http://media.ford.com/products/model.cfm?vehicle_id=1051
Source: Ford Media.
The Futura will be released in '05 as a '06 Vehicle.
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It's been well documented that cultural expectations are different on cars. Europeans (and to a different extent, the Japanese) have tended for their $23,00 to place highly on their lists such intangibles as solidity, panel gaps, plastic quality, overall refinement, etc. far ahead of such traditional American priorities as size, roominess, price, equipment levels, mechanical reliability, etc. Multiple industry executives and journalists with worldwide experience have said this again and again. It's one of the reasons such US hits (Ford Explorer, Toyota Camry, Chrysler Minivans, old-style Honda Accord) have never had much European success.
For example, I have a Contour SVT. When I bought it, a neighbor was mystified why I would buy it vs a similarly priced Dodge Intrepid that was much bigger, roomier, higher equipment levels, etc. When I explained to him that the handling, refinement, engineering, etc. were, in my opinion, vastly superior, I got blank stares back. It's just different expectations.
I just bought a certified preowned 3-series for the same reasons. Fleets of friends of mine are in Lexi, VW's, Audi's, etc. for exactly the same reasons. Growing numbers of people expect the same detailing and refinement in their cars that they get in their ski gear, MP3 players, PDA's, watches, etc. Our domestic makers ignore this at their peril (which, thankfully, it's starting to look like they are paying attention).
Bret
To think, the old Festiva in the U.S. (really a Kia) was up there with Geo in jokes to be made. Currently Ford is studying bringing over the Brazillian made Fiesta, to offer it as a (under Focus) offering to battle the Korean entry vehicles. The only issue that might curtail that idea might be UAW. But the Ecosport has been a huge success over in Brazil, and that's another possibility of coming over to the U.S. , and place it under the Escape, as an smaller SUV offering.
It's ironic how the better selling vehicles here in the U.S., do not register a bleep over in Europe. And it's true, it's all about perceptions and cultural expectations.
Many U.S. consumer's have this Wal-mart type of buying behavior that is shifting buying habits. Many would rather buy a $16 iron and toss it out when it falls on the floor the first time and breaks. Instead of buying the $45 quality iron that will last them 20 years easily. (The latter explains buying habits in Europe). Naturally the $16, easy to break iron helps supply the U.S. with jobs.
Everytime that iron breaks, another one must be bought to replace it. And it becomes a cycle. But consumer's are now realizing that the only person benefitting from this is the 3rd world country where that $16 iron is being built. There's a spanish expression (rhyme's in spanish though) "Lo barato sale carro" (I hope I spelled it right), which translates to "What is cheap, comes out expensive in the long term".
And that's what's currently happening with current domestic vehicles. And naturally, they had/ and have had to adapt to consumer's needs/wants. It's because of this that such lousy vehicles have been offered to us. (Personally, I never had an issue with Fords and we've had plenty of them, just RWD and V8's though). Now for effort is being placed towards long term quality, but only as long as people are willing to pay for it.
We've seen, and so have domestic manufacturer's, that consumer's are willing to pay (without rebates) higher prices for Accords and Camry's. And with the introduction of the Ford F-150, we have seen that people are willing to pay a higher price, for the higher trim models. Therefore, this needs to be established in other vehicles, without implementing huge rebates.
So the next few years while american auto-manufacturer's are introducing new vehicles (with higher quality standards), and quality/dependability ratings are increasing, we will need to see and analyze if consumer's are willing to change their perception over domestic vehicles.
Explains the proliferation of all the "Books for Dummies" in the USA.