FORD 2000 SD 250 CC, V8 or V10 ?????
I'm looking to get a 2000 Ford Super Duty 250 Crew
Cab. It will be mainly for carrying the family,
pulling trees(cedars) around the property and going
to the deer lease. I will be doing little towing
if any. Don't even plan on towing anything heavy.
All of the posts I have read are weighted a little
towards the towing side. With my situation, do you
folks feel that the V8 with 3.73 gears be adequate
for this truck?? Should I go with the v10?? Or
possibly the v8 with the 4.1 gears??
Thanx,
David
Cab. It will be mainly for carrying the family,
pulling trees(cedars) around the property and going
to the deer lease. I will be doing little towing
if any. Don't even plan on towing anything heavy.
All of the posts I have read are weighted a little
towards the towing side. With my situation, do you
folks feel that the V8 with 3.73 gears be adequate
for this truck?? Should I go with the v10?? Or
possibly the v8 with the 4.1 gears??
Thanx,
David
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The 6.0l Silverado test after test whoops up on the Ford V10, the 5.4l, and obviously the 4.6l. It has proven to out tow and out perform the V10 and do with better fuel economy. Just because you havn't had problems doesn't mean the Ford gas engine line up isn't second rate to the Chevy. Grant you the Chevy diesel sucks, but that will change soon also.
The Chevy doesn't need a supercharger to be better than Ford. All one has to do is look at the recalls and service bulletins of each over the last 10 years. Ford continually has more recalls, compaigns and service bulletins than the Chevy or GMC trucks. Thats fact and all anyone should need to know.
BTW: Chevy and GMC 1/2 tons combined continually outsells Ford 1/2 tons. Just proves another point, GM offers many more options than Ford, both in powertrain and internal comfort.
Take it easy.
However, a 1/2 ton is not made to do "real" work any more than those useless 5.4l's Ford puts in a supposed "real work" truck, the F250. However, my 89 1 ton with 454 and over 225,000 miles will do more work than a new V10 Ford any day. The 6.0l "V8" will out perform the "V10" with better fuel economy to boot. Now, the 5.4l....in 3/4 ton??? Thats a real joke. It's barely adequate for a 1/2 ton.
I pull a 40 foot gooseneck full of livestock going up grades and never miss a beat with my Chevy 1 ton.
Fords aren't terrible trucks, just a far second to GM trucks in the gas line. Only thing that I don't like about Ford owners like lvstang is that their whole identity rests with the truck make they drive, which makes them sore losers.
Maybe next year your Ford can be leader. NOT!
I have heard such statements before and am curious to know. Pushrod VS OHC. Hmmmm! Tell me where the pushrod motor is more advanced. Would just like to know.
In a nutshell, the ohc engines are known to be low torque, high rev engines. Their strokes are much shorter and need more rpms to have any real power. I will give that as the result of this, they are "normally" smoother running engines. However, I don't see this benefit over the Chevy motors.
Please don't post anymore crap about the GM trucks torque curves compared to Fords. Thats crap. I have stated how the marketing curves are not realistically shown. The 5.3l torque curve has a "flat torque curve", that DOES start to flatten out at about 2,300 rpm at about 300 lbs. GM just shows the "peak" at 4,000 rpm. That does not mean that it is undertorqued below the peak. The torque curve of the Ford dives drastically at about 3,200 rpm.
Again, I am not going to argue with you two about this anymore. "YOU TWO" were the ones in the very beginning that got all bent out of shape and started getting nasty with me because I simply debated why you feel the Ford was a better truck. The ONLY arguements you two mentioned even worth while were on a stupid torque curve issue,which everyone knows is bogus. In addition, even if there was a torque advantage to the Ford, the GM truck has tons of other qualities that clearly make it a better product.
Autotrac, more suspension options, better and more powerful engine options (especially in 3/4 and up), a proven stronger automatic transmission (Ford is continually replacing Expedition, Explorer, and 1/2 ton truck auto tranny's)onboard diagnostics, bigger interior, more interior comfort, a true locking differential instead of the cheesy "limited slip", etc. etc. etc.
You fail to read that "I AM A 15 YEAR PREVIOUS FORD OWNER"!!!! I had "NO" problems with Ford's pushrod engine line. Never had any of them in the shop!!! Now all of a sudden, everyone is complaining of anemic engines (ohc design), tranny problems, etc. etc. etc.
As lvstinks said, I never take biased magazine tests as gospel, even the Ford v10. I KNOW the V10 doesn't compare to the 6.0l because my Dad's wife owns one. Yeah, its a decent truck, but the 6.0l engine is much better. The 6.0l tows better, and works harder, with better fuel economy, and with "2 FEWER CYLINDERS".
You two do and think what you want. I don't even "need" to try and "prove" anything. The new GM trucks speak for themselves. Hell, I will even take on any new model Ford with a gas engine with my old 89 1 ton with 454 that has 225,000 miles on it. Lets compare my old nearing replacement 454 to a brand new V10. I still pull more and do more work easier with my "OLD" 454 than my Dad's wife's "BRAND NEW" V10. Now, I admit, the V10 beats my 454 to hell in gas mileage, but look at the 6.0l performance and gas mileage.
Ford just doesn't compare. You say that I won't listen to reason, but you two are as bullheaded as they come. "ANYTHING" that is said against a Ford truck, you say is "bashing". I didn't start bashing Ford until you two started whining and crying, calling me names and being a "pain in the [non-permissible content removed]" first.
For the record, in all this "bashing" I have supposedly done, , neither of you have been able to deny what I present. I don't want to hear any marketing specs crapola. Give "ME" facts why the Ford is so great. I "USED" to think it was, until the 97 forward models.
Tell me why a much smaller engine choice is desireable in the F250 compared to the 6.0l in the GM 3/4 ton? Tell me why if the 5.4l has such a torque advantage, why the two trucks are "STILL ALMOST EQUAL IN THE POWER TESTS YOU TWO BOTH TOUT AS GOSPEL" (at least when the 1/2 ton is compared to 1/2 ton,etc. The testers like to test non comparable trucks and equipment). Tell me why if Ford is so much more technically advanced, they could not even implement onboard diagnostics or a similar 4x4 autotrac or why they don't have more than two suspension options. I could go on and on.
Your turn.
ZBADDD,
Did you read Hudson's remarks? He started this topic as a way to decide which FORD to buy. He didn't want advice on brands--just FORDS. FORD. FORD. FORD.
Have you seen FORD yet? There are plenty of "debate" topics you can go to. I don't rush into the "Chevy 1500or 2500" question and yell at the Chevy guys there!
You don't have much to stand on when it comes to name-calling because if you were abhorrent to use it then why do it?
"Mostly women drive Tacomas" Huh? I have never owned a Toyota but where is the basis of fact on that statement? Plus, for a private owner, you sure have owned every truck known to man. Oh yeah, with that F-150---how did you plan to tow a "40ft goose-neck trailer full of livestcock"????
As of this subject--it is dead. Sorry Hudson but ZBADDD-man has infiltrated your humble topic and brought out the worst in all of us. I guess it would be fair to assail all of the Chevy subjects? Should we disrupt all informative topics to get into name-calling??? Z-Bad has the answer and we are all waiting for the Almighty to grace us with his Bias-GM rantings.......
Next, overhead cam design has got absolutely nothing to do with the ability to produce torque. Bore, stroke, and intake runner length and cam PROFILE have much more to do with torque than the actual placement of the cam. OHC may allow an engine to rev higher but Ford does not utilize that in the truck engines. Their cam profiles are set up for low end torque.
The V-10 debate to my knowledge has never been argued, the '99 version 6.0l chevy outperforms it, period . I'm just waiting to see if the increase in H.P. and torque for the V-10 lowers the gap in 2000.
It is nearly legend in these topics how the first words off your fat little fingers are "My '98 Ford POS......" so please don't insult us by saying you don't bring that up until we all start whining
I don't think any Ford supporter has said that Fords are more technologically advanced. The replys have been that they don't see how pushrod motors are superior to ohc motors etc...Than of course you will come back with an insult about feces or moms or what someone is smoking etc.
You had an unfortunate experience with Ford, I'm sorry. But there are plenty of G.M. stories on this site that are just as bad as yours and we don't see their names at every topic bashing G.M. I think that is why everyone considers you so annoying
Have a good day anyway
I agree that an OHC can handle higher RPMs and I do not think that Ford has come close to this upper number. GMs pushrod motors are reving higher right now than the Tritons and I believe that Ford has a lot of room to play with yet.
Of course this is only my opinion with not much to back it up. If you can factorially(is that a word?) tell me that a pushrod motor is more advanced please do.
I said....The 5.4l is still not as tow worthy as the 5.3l because all its torque is in the low range. When towing on the highway, which I again mentioned if you read my post, that the 5.3l has more power for towing...the low AND midrange. The 5.3l is only 15 lbs torque less than Fords, by the marketing garbage (I agree that the marketing ads are not correct. It could be more or it could be less). What you Ford guy's want everyone to assume is that the peak torque is ONLY FOUND AT 4k rpm. That is not true. The FLAT TORQUE CURVE of about 300 lbs torque STARTS AT ABOUT 2,300 RPM. The Ford gradually rises to its peak at about 3,200 rpm, then gradually declines. ALL THE FORDS TORQUE IS IN A LESS USEFULL RANGE!!! If I only towed 8000 lbs, all within the city and never got on the highway, your Ford truck would possibly be better suited for that need. Ok, who only tows in the city at low rpm?????
I agree with you about the CAM profiles. However, I didn't feel that in the 4.6l I owned. I had to almost floor it to get it to give me power when I needed it. This resulted in it downshifting two gears instead of one, which over revved the engine which was useless to me. There never seemed to be a happy medium. The Silverado is very sensitive to the drivers need and always delivers a very smooth down shift and only what is needed unless the accelerator is pushed further. The accelerator seems more "linear" to the amount of power delivered. Now, I am not an expert, so this could very well be a transmission deficiency more than an engine deficiency. In either case, it lacked what a truck needs, in MY opinion. Which is another thing, I have never stated that my "opinion" is fact. You are correct, it is jsut my opinion. However, there seems to be a lot of others with the same. That said, the 4.6l in my truck was almost no different in performance than a buddy of mines' 97 5.4l. Neither of us could tell any difference.
Ok, so I like to rag on Ford. I did get burned by Ford. Sure the truck had "PLENTY" of problems. However, my heartburn is more with Ford and their lack of any customer concern. Yes, I have not had the best of luck with my "selling dealer" either, but the dealer I go to now is the best. I never "have" to complain, because they read my mind every time. I have not had this done personally to my vehicle, but I do take notice that this dealer runs every vehicle it services through their own car wash station.
Thats service. When I was told my the Ford zone rep was not going to fight to get the selling dealer to honor the work they did to my truck (they replaced parts that did not fix the problem so Ford would not fund any further work for that problem and the dealer left me high and dry.), vowed to deter anyone and everyone I know not to buy a Ford. Again, I someone who, whether you believe it or not, has owned a lot of trucks over the last 15 years, all Ford except one Toyota Tacoma (I bought mainly for my wife to drive), my Chevy 454 and my current Silverado. I was loyal to Ford for 15 years and that wasn't worth anything to them when I needed it to. Therefore their trucks are no longer worth anything to me.
I apologize if you feel I have started the heated debates. You are correct that I don't talk good about Ford. However, I only tell of my honest experiences with Fords. I have never lied about anything and have never intended to indicate that my opinion is factual, only my opinion. I will refrain from name calling and "bashing" Fords as you put it, but I will never refrain from telling about my poor experiences with the new model Ford.
It's really funny how pre 97 Fords held me as a loyal Ford owner (for the most part), but it only took one new model Ford to turn my stomach.
I think the reason you take so much offense to my posts agains Ford is that I think you take it like I am bashing you personally. I am not. This why I have held firm in my belief that I never started the name calling and such. You get miffed at the negatives said about Ford and you go off on me like I called "YOU" a name personally or something. I just assume people have thicker skin than that. Barlitz didn't go off the deep end with what I posted about Fords to him. He stated his opinion "FOR" Fords and I stated my opinion "AGAINST" Fords. No harm done. I know I didn't take offense to him and it seems he lost no sleep over what I said either.
I will call this personal attack stuff quits if you will.
Take Care.
I am sure I coud do research of the two engine types and bring to the table a list of pluses and minuses. Maybe the ohc would have more pluses than minuses, I don't know. What I do know (my opinion again) is that my "DRIVING AND OWNERSHIP" experiences of the two tells me that the Triton OHC engine is far from superior to the pushrod Vortec in my Silverado. This opinion has everything to do with not only power, but reliability as well. However, again, I have to print it out here, IT IS MY OPINION. This way nobody can come back and say I tried to push this off as some fact I pulled out of my butt.
Again, same as with Lvstang, I will refrain from name calling and bashing if you will.
Take care.
Take it easy, Jack
I have always been a quick thinker (at least when it comes to being a smartass). My wife is always frustrated because when we play fight and tease one another, she can never outwit me with the one liners and putdowns!
Its all in fun. I "AM" glad these posts can get back to normal conversation again. I will try and be considerate about what I say about the Fords. I may slip now and again. Just don't take it personal.
What is this new "Excursion"????
BTW Barlitz: I did not know that they made an F250 using the light duty frame. Are you talking the same frame as the F150? Body? I agree that the 5.4l in the F150 or light duty models will do the job. Not my preference obviously, but much better than in a heavier work truck.
Later.
sd cc that would like to share your experiences with your engine setup, milage etc.
PLEASE, if you don't have anything PERTINENT(zbad71) to say... DON'T POST.
Thanx,
When I think back at the four wheeling and the Lake Mead trips and how it towed the boat in 120+ heat I realize I'm really going to miss this truck. Enough of the tears now.
Barlitz I'm not sure of the availability for your application but Bassani and Borla make outstanding exhaust systems or you can just change mufflers and still pick up some sound and a little power. At the Ford race I was at in Phoenix Bassani had some gorgeous stainless pieces including headers. That 300 horse 5.4 is only in the Lincoln and basically added the 4 valve Cobra heads to make it scream. Heck I wish it was available in my Cobra.
Hudson, I will probably order my Super Duty next week. I made up my mind based on my opinion that the truck looks so tough with a 4inch lift and some decent tires. I was on the fence for a long time vs. the GMC 2500 with 6.0l but the looks swayed me. The GMC is a pretty boy truck and I'm big and ugly like the Ford. It will be a XLT(I can't stand leather)short bed crew cab 4x4 V10 with a 5speed and a PTO. Don't have any idea why I'm getting the PTO. I guess because it's there. It will have 4.30's with limited slip. It invoices at 28000+ and my dealer said I could have it for 500 over. My feeling as stated before is get the options that will give you the most performance now because it will be more expensive to add them later if at all. If anyone is concerned with fuel economy with these pigs they should get a diesel or look elsewhere. I don't feel the 5.4 is going to give that much more MPG with all the weight it has to lug. No figures to back this up. My friend who is an A/c contrator had a 350 chev and 454 chev both with service bodys and their mileage was nearly the same after he added the bodys. The 350 was 3 or 4 MPG better before the weight. Also if you add oversize tires it effectively drops your axle ratio back down anyway. That's why the 4.30's. Sorry about the rambling time for bed now. Nite all.
If what I've gathered on the posts is wrong than just disregard everything you've just read.
I don't have any facts. Just what I have heard. It will also (again, from what I "heard") that it will only be available in the heavy duties and the Suburban trucks.
Keep in mind that 400hp is alot to begin with........
Mercruiser gets around 415 h.p. out of their "regular" 502's without to much smog stuff. So I have my doubts.
I am just going on what I have heard both here on Edmunds and also www.LS1.Com bbs. Same info was found there too.
I will just keep my mouth shut until something concrete appears. However, the mere though of a stock big block putting out 500 hp has me drooling!
My answer to the lower mileage of the V-10 was to get the bi-fuel package and run on propane for short hauls, but Ford won't let you order it for the F-250/350. You can order it for the F-450/500, which uses exactly the same drivetrain, but not the pickups.
I have just ordered a F350 crew cab,Iwas going to go with the V-10 But the more people i talked to the more i heard that the diesel was the way to go. The best gas milage i could expect From the V-10 is about 12mi per gal if i drove like my grand mother, which i dont and about 18 mpg with the diesel.plus the the diesel will give me better pulling power. Its an expensive option but one im sure ill be happy with. Think aboutit. but dont go with a V-8 I hear they are a real gutless engine. I hope I have helped a little bit.
good luck with your F 250
Depends on what you are using it for. I know the Powerstroke is a good buy. You should be happy with your purchase. Nothing wrong with your choice. However, you obviously have not done any real homework on the V10. Yeah, the numbers favor the V10, but every test done proves that the 6.0l GM V8 outperforms it with better fuel economy. I would wonder if it were only one or two tests as I feel most magazine tests are bias. However, NONE of the tests have favored the V10 over the GM 6.0l.
I think you were generous to zbad, calling his post an opinion.
I can get along, but I also am just as entitled to an opinion as anyone else here. I am not going to harass him for making a poor truck make as his choice vehicle. Just kidding. I knew that would get the embers burning again!