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Extended Warranties

98monte_ls98monte_ls Posts: 117
Does anyone know of a **reputable** company that sells extended warranties, besides GM? They sell them at the dealership I believe so long as the car has not hit the end of the mfgrs warranty but I'm sure GM"s price must be higher.

I have a Camaro and plan to keep it beyond the warranty which will end soon (due to miles) so I need to shop for this asap.
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Comments

  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    at the Heritage warranty subject. I've discussed some pros and cons of aftermarket warranties.

    I believe, through LOTS of experience, and now dealing with lemon law and breach of warranty lawsuits, that the manufacturer's warranty is the only way to go.

    Shop around. Offer $100 over cost and by it cheap.
  • 98monte_ls98monte_ls Posts: 117
    I was hoping to find one cheaper than the delaership - they always stick it to you on price. How do i find the "cost" of a dealership's warranty? The price they quote is "retail" in fact, my dealership had a printed price list "menu" of warranty options.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    "I'm going to buy a warranty today. I'd like to buy a GM contract. If you'll show me YOUR cost (not what's on the "menu"), I'll pay $100 over that."

    "I've also looked at some other contracts, and I'm making my decision today".

    Be nice about it, but give them a "take it or leave it" approach.

    $100 in F&I profit with no affect on his "per deal" average (how the F&I guy is rated by his boss) is a good thing.
  • Hey 98monte_ls. Don't forget that you are free to shop around for an official GM extended warranty. You are not required to purchase one from the dealership that you purchased your car from or the one that you plan on having your vehicle serviced at. You should comparison shop by either e-mailing or calling dealerships. You can contact many of them with very minimal effort by using the Web. Here is a link to a pretty interesting article on extended warranties here on Edmunds.com: Extended Warranties: Extending The Joys Of Ownership.

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  • geoffdgtigeoffdgti Posts: 83
    I mostly agree with zueslewis. An OEM extended warranty is the only way to go.

    For GM, try these guys in Iowa:
    http://www.capperautocenter.com/

    I've bought two Ford extended warranties from their sister Ford dealership and, at least for Ford extended warranties, they have the best prices I've ever seen. It's an 800 number so it can't hurt to at least call and get a quote.

    You probably want to decide what plan you'd want first and get a price-gouging quote from the business/finance guy at your local dealership.

    http://www.gmprotectionplan.com/ has some limited information but you really need to see a contract to understand what is covered and what isn't.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    ask to see the F&I guy's cost sheet, and make your offer. Who pays retail anymore?
  • quigonjohnquigonjohn Posts: 77
    geoffdgti, or anyone else, do you know of a good source for a low price on a Chrysler Extended Warranty? I have WG now, (bought the car and warranty in Feb.), but with their financial troubles I may want to go for a Chrysler policy.
    THANKS!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    and make the same deal - offer $100 over their cost after they show you their price list.
  • quigonjohn mentioned that Warranty Gold has financial troubles. Is that right? What kind of troubles?

    Thanks,

    tiresmokem
  • quigonjohnquigonjohn Posts: 77
    tiresmokem, Checkout the "Warranty Gold Claims" thread for all the info.
  • 98monte_ls98monte_ls Posts: 117
    I got a "retail" quote from my dealer. $1650. Now if I go into the F&I guy and tell him I will buy today if he can show me his cost I need to be prepared to do just that. do you have any idea what ballpark the "cost" is off retail? Reason is, if his cost + 100 is still not going to be competitive with a 3rd party warranty then maybe I'll forget about the dealer.

    do you think that I should tell them that I got another quote on a warranty and if he can match it i will buy his? I got a couple, one from WG, which are significantly less than $1650.

    bruce
  • montanafanmontanafan Posts: 945
    GOing by the dealer later to see my brother's new Grand Prix. Which warranty/mileage/term/deductible where you thinking of for the Camaro.
  • 98monte_ls98monte_ls Posts: 117
    the 5 yr 75k (i think that's the one) and $100 ded.
  • 98monte_ls98monte_ls Posts: 117
    Anyone heard of this one - called Extended Auto Warranty Corp. insured by Capital Assurance?

    their warranty is nearly as good as the mfgr warranty, but with GM it will only "extend" my coverage to 5 years/75k, which is only 3 more years/30k more miles. Extended Warranty Corp has one that they say begins when the mfgrs warranty expires and goes for a full 5 years/100k miles which is 2 years longer and 25k longer than GM. I plan on keeping the car long, unless I get a really good job which I doubt I will in this job market.

    GM's so-called 5 year warranty is mis-represented because you are ONLY buying 2 years - the full car is covered until 36k for FREE no matter how many $1000's you pay for their warranty.

    bruce
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    you're also just buying what's past the basic warranty.

    Private "warranties" aren't "warranties" at all - they're insurance policies. Policies that have no legal liability to repair your car - at all.
  • ffmcobaltffmcobalt Posts: 20
    I believe you are able to purchase a GMPP as long as the original, factory warranty is still in effect. If I recall correctly, that means that you can buy a 7yr/100K-mile warranty up to 36 months after your purchase or up to 35,999 miles driven. You aren't required to buy the GMPP when you first purchase the vehicle. That would make the first three years and 36,000 miles pointless.

    I'll go look for confirmation because warranty work isn't my department at work, but I'm pretty sure.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    is a cheaper price (negotiated with the dealer at your best price vs buying from GM on a menu (retail) price) and rental car coverage through the basic warranty.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    It also allows you to finance the contract into your car loan if you don't have the cash or credit card space available. Pre-Daimler, Chrysler Financial would discount financing rates if you also bought a Chrysler service contract up front and added it in with the loan. Saved me 2 full points in 1996, don't know if CFC still does it now.

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  • MartypaMartypa Posts: 50
    Would you then recommend not buying an extended warranty if if unable to get it OEM?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    you'd be better off taking the money you would spend and put it in savings in case of a breakdown.
  • MartypaMartypa Posts: 50
    After reading through the info here and reading a few third party contracts, I will be doing just that!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
  • autoxpertautoxpert Posts: 4
    I have read some of the advice offered by so called experts, and I wish people were telling the whole truths. 1st) All "extended warranties/service contracts" are backed by some form of insurance, whether the its a TPA or a factory plan. 2nd) The difference between TPA's and Risk Retention Groups (ie, National Warranty Inc, Capital Assurance, etc) is that reputable companies have fully insured contracts that absolutley OBLIGATE the administrator to pay claims on the contracted vehicle. 3rd) More often prices from reputable TPA companies are close in price to factory plans, and even can offer more benefits (ie. roadside assistance, trip interuption reimbursement,etc.). I would expect that those who claim to lead discussions or have expertise give proper information. If the company is reputable, financially solvent, and has a good claims history, you will have the same piece of mind if it was covered by the factory!
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    These private companies are under no obligation to comply with the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act. None at all.

    Without that compliance, you have no "warranty" - you have no legal recourse, at all, if a claim is denied, if they use "used" parts (happens all the time) or if your legal issues are tied into a lemon law/breach of warranty claim. They are insurance policies, set by their own rules, and if they don't take care of you, you have NO recourse.

    Before you get any more disrespectful, please understand that my whole job is reviewing breach of warranty and warranty compliance cases in 3 states and at the Federal level.

    Additionally, most private "warranty" companies aren't signed up with many dealers, so the dealer has to jump through hoops just to get your claim handled. Doesn't bode well, if you expect to in the front of the line.
  • autoxpertautoxpert Posts: 4
    Not being disrespectful, just explaining the facts. There is no such thing as an "Extended WARRANTY". By law Mag/Moss, no retailer or TPA can "extend a warranty". Whether a customer purchases a factory program or a TPA program, they are only buying a "SERVICE" agreement/contract. The industry term of "Warranty" is used in- correctly. And as you know, "Warranties" can not be sold to customers, only "Tie in" service agreements", which by the way are covered and protected under magnusson moss act. Product, or Merchant warranties, offered to customers, in conjunction with buying a, vehicle are at no charge to the customer. As for the "service agreements", these agreements spell out in the defined contract language, all that is covered, all types of parts, limits of liability, what the owner is entitled to for benefit and recourse, what INSURANCE company is backing the obligations of the administrator, and whom, within in their state to contact if claims are not handled according to the service agreement. Now companies of RRG (NWIC) backing do not have any compliance to these laws in which Federally and Nationally filed and approved Insurance programs offer. I have seen GMAC/Chrysler/and Ford use parts replacement with language stating "like, Kind and Quality" = Used or Remanufactured parts.

    Now I am now discrediting your "expertise", using the term "warranty" incorrectly, and making false statements does not bode well for dealers and Service Contract companies who present/offer/and fulfill their coverage obligations. My credentials are on a national basis, both Federal, State, and International jurisdiction. I work with the Factory Programs, and 9 major Independent Service contract Providers. And By the way...Out of the 24,000+ Franchise dealers in the US, 75% have both Independent and Factory "SERVICE CONTRACTS" being offered by their finance representatives. Again Fact vs. Fiction... Please be honest to the people who use this site for resource purposes.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    The GMPP, ESP, and DCC warranties are backed by the company that manufactured the vehicle, not an insurance company.

    Mag-Moss is very specific in that ONLY the company that MANUFACTURED the product can he held liable for its warranty.

    Any "warranty", other than backed by the manufacturer, cannot be inforced, even if considered "in breach".

    Please take the hostility out of your postings and I'll do the same.

    "autoxpert" - how's that? Have you ever been certified by a state or federal court to testify as an automotive expert? I have, 191 times, although I don't come here hanging a name like that in order to brag.
  • I personally believe that consumers do not need extended warranties at all. The companies that offer these policies are not in the charity business. They obviously are charging more money for their policies than they have to pay out in repairs on average or they would not be able to remain in business. Having said this, many consumers do enjoy the peace of mind that extended warranties provide. In these cases, I personally always recommend manufacturer-backed extended warranties. Manufacturers are much more likely to stand behind their products to keep their customers happy and loyal than some random third party that has no vested interest in them. I can't tell you the number to stories that I have seen from consumers who have been given the run around by third party warranty companies when trying to have their vehicles repaired. I find it hard to believe that we are even having this discussion when one of the most popular third party extended warranty companies out there, Warranty Gold, is not even paying claims right now. That alone should be enough to scare most people away from non-manufacturer-backed ESPs.

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  • q45manq45man Posts: 416
    The problem is no outside company can predict the future, only the manufacturer has a good idea of failure rates.
    These ESP use historical data which doesn't apply when a model changes or a new one is introduced.
    The acuraries flat out guess what each model will cost. A few wrong guesses and you are out of money...........hoping beyond hope that you can sell more policies before you have to close the doors [bankruptcy].

    The real question is will putting $1200 in an interest account [instead of buying an ESP] cover everything?.[Probably not]....Lots of difference in buying a car with a 3/36 vs a 5/50k or a 6-7/70k factory warranty.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    around 36-42 months. It has been for 15-18 years. The average person out there trades their vehicles that frequently.

    If you keep a car 10 years and run the miles up, you're the exception to the rule (I'm talking new cars, no used). In that light, as a former F&I guy who was good at selling warranties (factory and aftermarket), it was a hard sell when someone traded cars every 3-4 years. They're in warranty for 90% of the time they'll own the car....
  • autoxpertautoxpert Posts: 4
    With all due respect "Zues", the statements you are making about the factory backing Warranties are correct, however each factory plan reinsures their obligation by paying an average premium of 1200 per car for the 36/36 B to B.

    The title of this thread was Extended Warranties,(service contracts) my remarks were regarding the statements that were incorrect regarding these supplemental products purchased after the sale. Magnusson Moss does make mention and gives consumer recourse in "Tie in sale" products. I agree that companies of under reserved/under funded capacity are doing a horrible diservice and fraudulent business practice. In your state, the "smart choice" product has hurt many consumers, dealers, and agents, because of thier lack of business integrity.

    Just to clear the air, and make a point. Chrysler Service Plans are insured by Zurich. ESP is insured by Travelors, and GMPP is insured by Motors Insurance Inc. The insurance is the financial protection for the performance of the service agreements.

    I beg to differ about actuarial "guessing". Many companies have 20-30 years of failure experience to properly price products using trending and inflationary methods. And just so you know, the factories DO NOT share failure rates with the Factory endorsed service contract programs. I have an actuary that works at Ford, who can't get information other than what has hit his insurance reports.

    The person who buys a a vehicle that keeps a car 44 months and 54K miles (national average 2001, source Dept Motor vehcile) then to buy a Service agreement above the 36/36 is beneficial. Not many people in the US have an arbitrary $1200 to put in an account to draw 5% interest. These products offer great value.....

    These are facts! And by the way, My "self professed screen name is nothing more then what i am considered in my industry. Are you a god in yours...this is joke, try to lighten up!
  • So what exactly are you trying to say, autoxpert? That third party extended warranties are better than manufacturer-backed plans? That definitely is not the case, it never was, and it is even more evident now that a major third party provider like Warranty Gold has ceased paying claims. Quite frankly, one would be much better off taking the money that they would have spend on their extended warranty ant putting it in a bank account. You mentioned that not everyone has $1,000 to just drop into a bank account. Well, if they don't have the money, how are they supposed to buy a $1,000 extended warranty? Sure they could bake it into their finance contract. If that is how they intend to pay for it, they could just take the difference in the payment that the ESP would add and put that aside every month, not only saving the interest that they would have had to pay, but also actually earning interest on it. If one really desires the peace of mind that an extended warranty provides, they should purchase one from a company that is definitely going to stick around, like their vehicle's manufacturer, and not some random unaffiliated company.

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  • jratcliffejratcliffe Posts: 233
    I think the key issue here is that, although manufacturers reinsure their warranties (i.e. pay Travelers/AIG/whomever $X per car, and then that insurance company reimburses the manufacturer for any warranty claims), the manufacturers _remain liable_ for those warranty costs. If the insurer goes out of business, that's unfortunate for the manufacturer (they're out $X a car, and the manufacturer has to pay the repair bills), but the consumer can still collect from the manufacturer. In the case of a third party "warranty" (not going to get into a semantic war here), if the company backing the warranty goes bust (a la Warranty Gold), the carowner is out of luck.
  • autoxpertautoxpert Posts: 4
    Not saying that all TPA's are better than the factory, but I know for a fact there are a few that are better and offer more benefit. Don't be fooled by the fact that "Mitsubishi, Kia, or Mazda" is at the top of the contract, 99% of the times, the administration and claims adjudication is done by a contracted 3rd party. They just answer the phones on behalf of the factory!

    Warranty Gold is backed by a Risk Retention Group. These companies are not regulated by any government agency....NONE. That is what NWIC is, a Risk Retention Company.

    The majority of dealers use Reputable companies, (CNA, JM&A, Protective, Universal Underwriters, APCO) these companies have Fully insured liability policies backing the obligations of the agreement. EXACTLY like the factory plans. These programs have to be filed and approved by each state department of insurance. They all have federally protected "Guaranty Funds" if they become insolvent, which pays all claims for the consumer. (Example, Reliance insurance 1998)

    You keep quoting the example of Warranty Gold/Capital Assurance, these companies have no liability policies backing performance, they have stop loss or excess of loss protection, which means the TPA not the insurance company is holding the funds for future claims. The bottom line, many manufacturer plans, and reputable insurance products exist, the customers should research these products and find out about the company they are being presented. The examples I used above all have AM BEST ratings of A- or Better, and are endorsed by GM,FORD, and Chrysler Financial Corporations. NWIC lost its endorsement in NOV because of it's insolvency.

    People who finance car loans and supplemental products are actually smart! Why would you not borrow 1000-$2000 at 0% interest rather than take $1000 of your hard earned money and set it aside for 5 years and ABSOLUTELY NOT TOUCH IT. Most people on a budget can't do it or afford to do it, that's why it makes sense! $1000 at 5% for 5 years is only $1276. Most major repairs occur past 36/36 (ie. A/C, engine, trans, or drive axles) and average $1800 - $2600, and that's using today's money! It doesn't make sense!

    You can make an argument that the "warranty gold's" of the world ruin this type of product and everyone should run for the hills. Truth is, the majority of people who buy New and Used cars need some form of protection when the Factory warranty runs out. Last year nearly 7 million service agreements/contracts were sold in the US. This is spread both between Factory and Independents.... If these products are so unscrupulous and always screw the customers, why has the federal/State/and local governments allowed them to be sold for nearly 30 years?

    My advice to a conusmer would be to research the company that backs/insures the product. Only buy coverage and terms that will suit your personal needs. Shop around to get the best deal! Most often, its at the dealer you buy from, they have millions of dollars riding on their reputation, and future viability because of CSI. The likelihood of a customer getting screwed is less and less because of resources like this chat room and websites....
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Why not just buy Toyota quality and forget about extended warranties?
        Will the many lengthy extended warranties bankrupt Kia, Hyundai, Dodge, Jeep, and Chrysler when their vehicles fall apart long before the 100,000 or 70,000 miles?
        One possible scenario is that the disgruntled owners will get too annoyed with the frequent trips in to get one of these vehicles repaired that they will decide to dump the unreliable brand and get a Toyota where they do not need the extended warranty.
        Of what value is an extended warranty if a person is spending too many valuable hours taking their vehicle to the dealer to get it fixed?
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    your enthusiasm for Toyota products, and hope you've never had any trouble with yours, bear in mind that Toyota is the brand I see more (in my lemon law cases) than any other Japanese brand.

    autoxpert - my screen name is zueslewis, taken from my first e-mail address (ever), which was named after my German Shepard (now passed), my best buddy for 12 years. I, unlike you, have no "God" complex.

    I deal with warranty/manufacturer liabilty every day. I could care less if the GMPP CEO writes checks out of his own account to cover repairs, my issue is who is liable, not who is backing the money. Only the manufacturer can be held liable for any aspects of warranty (in legal terms) on a vehicle.

    With a private company sponsoring a service contract, they have NO liability under the law to honor the "warranty" of the actual vehicle, which is described as "warranty of merchantability" - that is the concept under which breach of warranty cases are prosecuted - as violations of both the Uniform Commercial Code and the Unfair Trade Practices Act.

    Aside from the legal issues pertaining to private service contracts, there are many more issues that should sway an educated consumer away from private companies, like pre-authorization requirements, pre-payment for repairs in many cases, a week or more waiting on a adjuster to inspect the vehicle before parts can even be ordered, etc.

    There are several more disadvantages, if you'd like me to explain further.

    If it is your sole purpose to come here a try to sell private warranties like a travelling vacuum cleaner salesman, this is not the place to do it. Also, there is no need to attempt to discredit me or anyone else. I've sold over 7,000 extended service contracts (factory and private), administered them as a service manager, and now I've investigated their breaches as a consumer fraud investigator.

    Your facts are very skewed, and your attitude is hostile - both are unnecessary.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Do you see more Toyotas than any other Japanese brands because there are so many more Toyota vehicles sold in the USA than any other Japanese brand?
        Which Toyota models seem to be more prone to have a lemon (Tundra, ECHO, Tacoma, etc )?
        Do Toyota problems tend to be major mechanical like engine / transmission or accessories like power windows, power door locks, radios, etc.?
        Thanks for your assistance.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    Toyota definitely produces lots of vehicles, but so does Honda, and I very rarely see Honda vehicles at all. Most of the problems are not from trucks (I've only seen one Tundra, and that was owner neglect, case got nixed; 2 Tacomas for engine management issues; and 1 Rav4 for fuel system problems).

    Mostly, I see Camrys, Siennas and Previas (older, but lower-miled Previas) for engine management system problems, usually dealing with the engines acting up and multiple PCM and sensor replacements (usually causes drivability problems).
  • jonbgoodjonbgood Posts: 157
    I purchased a '99 Aurora last summer still under factory warranty. After researching that car, on Edmunds board, the consensus from the owners was that a good extended warranty would pay off for this vehicle. 30 days before my factory warranty expired I purchased an exclusionary plan that lists what is excluded - vs. one that lists what is included. I paid $1289 for this piece of mind. Two weeks ago, I encountered a $546 electrical problem that Warrantybynet promptly paid by credit card to the dealer without a hitch. The dealer service manager informed me that there were no problems with working with them. I think a warranty makes sense if the auto you are purchasing is prone to expensive repairs and if you plan on keeping the vehicle and "drive the wheels off it".
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Good information. Guess I have been lucky with the Toyota brand although I have not owned a Camry, Sienna, or Previa. Perhaps my luck also is related to buying Toyota before the newer type engine fuel management systems were incorporated.
        Based on your information, other data in Town Hall, and a most distasteful experience the last time I went to look at 2004 Siennas, the Odyssey has moved ahead of the Sienna for my preference if I get a minivan.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    I prefer the previous body style over the '04 - the '04 looks like a Camry with a glandular problem, no offense intended.

    I saw a few Odesseys ('99-00 models), but rarely see them now, if at all.
  • I came across an interesting article on extended warranties in this week's Automotive News. Apparently, more companies than just Warranty Gold were adversely affected by the current financial problems that National Warranty is having. This article talks about how a company named DeltaGroup that markets "Smart Choice" extended warranties through dealerships is currently not playing any claims either. Here is a link to the article: Dealers caught in warranty war - Insurer's problems force tough choices.

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  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    The smartest choice is to buy a car that doesn't need an extended warranty.
  • banks500banks500 Posts: 1
    i own a 99 cadillac deville with 33550 on the ododmeter, the factory warranty expired on Jan. 27, 2003. which after market warranty would be the best buy for that vechicle
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    but even bulletproof cars break, and a Honda Accord tranny still costs $3,000.
  • pgr1940pgr1940 Posts: 1
    What does TPA (type of plan) stand for?

    I have a WG on my wife's 99 Monte, have yet to use it. WG is still advertising on the net.

    Just bought a used 2000 Intrepid factory warranty just ran out,dealers extended costs too much for too little.

    Was looking into a bumper/bumper extended from Certified Car Care. They're located in FLA. Anybody know of them or did business with them?
  • jratcliffejratcliffe Posts: 233
    So, you complain about 1sourcewarranty.com spamming, and at the same time are spamming boards trying to drum up business for your law firm. Physician, heal thyself.
  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    A Honda trans may cost $3000 but everything you buy can break or suffer a casualty loss--are you going to insure or buy a warranty on everything? Buying an extended warranty for over $1,000 to protect against a $3,000 loss is not a good bet IMO, except for the warranty company.
  • C'mon guys, who do you think you're fooling with all this extended warranty bull. Dealers can't be counted on to honor their original 3/36. Anybody heard the "can't duplicate excuse". or how about the one about being "within specs" when your brake pedal sinks to the floor. This idea that dealers are so honorable, and just trying to make ends meet makes me want to hurl. The whole process of dealing with car people leaves a bad smell in the air. If a person doesn't realise what's going on at dealers, they just have been lucky with the product they bought. I hear and read stories at Edmunds and other sites about the problems of getting a warrantied item fixed, and they all sound too faniliar.
  • q45manq45man Posts: 416
    You should study the dealer sites and trade publications to see how many US new car manufacturers have been cheating the dealers and the technicans on warranty work......allowing only 60% of the book time to complete the warranty. Ford near bankruptcy seems to be the most notable. But all brands have been doing this to pay for the increased incentives.
    Technicans hate warranty work because it doesn't pay them enough to live as the reduced allowable time just get passed down to dealers who pass it down to techs. Worse the dealers don't get paid in full for sometimes 90 days and they are nickeled and dimed by regional manufactures agents.

    When a warranty ticket is placed in the work box they [techs] all run for cover hoping against hope that some out of warranty [customer paid] job will show up. Some body finally picks it up, the guy that needs the money the most........the best techs are usually not subjected to this process unless the mortgage is due.
  • cwadstercwadster Posts: 8
    This "book time" is the biggest bunch of BS out there. You know what happens when you go to get a water pump and a serpentine belt changed at the same time. You get charged "book time" for both a water pump replacement and a belt replacement, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE BELT OFF TO CHANGE THE WATER PUMP! Since they have to put a belt back on, you KNOW they are not putting the old one back on, then starting over to put the new belt on. Since they're doing the labor anyway, why not charge you just for the part. Basically, they're billing you twice to do the job once. Sound's pretty criminal to me. So get off the "they only pay xx% of book time for warranty repairs" soapbox. 50-60% of book time is very often all the time needed to do the job. And BTW, dealerships don't have mechanics anymore--they're just parts installers. They don't have the first clue how to diagnose a problem without a computer telling them what the problem is.
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