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Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza



  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    By the way, even though the Freestar's styling is distinctive, the fuel economy isn't. It gets a low low low 15 MPG.
  • has got to stand out in one way or another to be successful. The Caravan twins are versitle; the Quest is a rule breaking pineer with standard side airbags and killer looks (maybe not for some folks); the Freestar has side curtain; the Odyssey is...well the Odyssey; and the Sienna is a conservative Quest. What do the new GM vans have that truly stands out and sticks to the shopper's mind?
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    Selling points of the new GM vans

    Standard DVD
    Standard MP3 player
    Available Phat noise sound system
    Standard On Star
    Over head rail system
    Available remote start
    Available AWD
    Fuel economy
    SUV "look"

    Nope, like someone said these aren't the best vans on the planet, but they should drive very well, have nice interiors and appeal to a segment looking for good value. The look is not main stream which will help it stick out in the market.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Lots of different things appeal to lots of people for different reasons. The vans should sell about the same, there isn't going to be any big jump up here. GM needs an all new van but given their limited resources these days, this is likely their best option for now. That said, they could have got the same result and saved some money by just updating the old vans rather than re-name them and spawn a Saturn.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Fuel economy might be one main competitive advantage. That plus the DVD.

    The list above seems pretty complete.

    Add to that "Huge Rebates coming soon".

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    GM Card points, year end bonus cash, GMAC financing bonus cash, plus cashback, for a possible drive out the door price of around maybe seven grand off, before negotiating?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Let's just say "acquisition cost" and leave it at that.

    All those things lower the price but they'll also lower residuals. In 2 years an Odyssey will be worth $8000 more in resale, so your TCO may actually be similar.

  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    "In 2 years an Odyssey will be worth $8000 more in resale"

    Since it costs about that much more new I would certainly hope so.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Exactly my point, so you should buy the one you like better, because the actual depreciation will be about the same.

    What I mean by that is the Odyssey won't really cost you any more, despite the higher up-front cost.

    If you are really bargain shopping, go get an outgoing 2004 Odyssey, I've seen LXs for $22k and EXs with DVD for $25k. That's no more than a GM van will cost you right now, maybe even less.

    In 5 years I bet the Ody holds its value better by far. Look at 2000 models:

    2000 Ody LX Private Party: $13,700
    2000 Venture LS Ext: $7,347

    Even 5 years down the road the difference is substantial. For an outgoing 2004 Venture to be a better deal, it would have to cost less than $16 grand new. No amount of rebates will get it that cheap!

    Conclusion: buy it if you like it better, not for the low up front price, because that'll cost you down the road.

  • Why would you want to give someone $8000.00 now and in five years get the same $8000.00 back without any interest on your money? In five years that $8000.00 will be eaten away by inflation. Invest that money for five years and subtract that from the cost of the lower cost van.

    If you like having dead money just hanging around doing nothing, the Ody is the one to buy!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well, first off it's not $8000. That was just a number thrown out as an example.

    A 2004 Ody LX costs about $22k right now. My guess is a GM van is about the same. Even with a GM card credit you would come out way behind, even when you factor in interest.

    If you get a 2005 Ody and compare to a 2005 GM van, well, rebates aren't really high yet to I bet the savings will amount to very little.

  • Sorry, I thought that you knew that $8k figure for a fact. I know that in 2002, Honda Ody was 32k full msrp compared to my 2002 Silhouette GLS which msrp for 33k and I got it for 25k. Of course GM rebates/card points do help.

    So that 7-8k price difference did exist when I bought my van. Buick dealer by me has started to take names so they can call people when the Buick Tarazza starts to come in.

    Only time will tell.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Me, I'd rather pay less to begin with. You can get a loaded up Venture for C$28K cash. Same Oddy will cost anywhere from C$37-40K. While I do think the Oddy is a better van over all, I know which one I would likely buy.

    GMs lower prices are and will attract families who look for van value.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hey, if the Honda was $32k I wouldn't have bought it either! :o)

    That's just more than I'm willing to spend, even if I can afford it.

    Also, I guess a lot of folks drive theirs into the ground, and in that case residuals hardly even matter.

  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I'd rather have eight grand now- think of the christmas gifts I could buy!
  • I got to see a SV6 up close today. Someone on my sons soccer team is driving one. I have to admit it looks pretty good. The front end definatley makes it look more like a SUV. It was a gold colored model (sedona beige) with the chrome wheels.
    The interior looks very nice. Executed much better than the current vans. Fit and finish seem very good and the materials used are much improved.
    Not as good as the Honda or Toyota but better than the Ford rehash. I think they will do ok - especially when the massive incentives kick in. I am going to try and drive it this week - will let everyone know my impressions.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    let us know how the GM vans do.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Let us know.

    I find many new vehicles look better in person than on a computer screen.
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    When will the new vans arrive to the dealers?
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I think early November
  • Saw a Terraza at the post office this morning. Looked pretty good, except it had wheel covers (looked just like the ones from the Rendezvous). What the heck are they thinking?? Any vehicle that starts in the high 20's needs real wheels, not plastic covers. Especially if Buick is trying to be an american Lexus.

    I really need to get a digital camera.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    I saw a base BMW 3-series with plastic wheel covers the other day so I guess it's not unheard of in the "luxury brand" arena. That said, Buick should not go there. I think the LaCrosse with have covers on the base model also.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Lutz warned us he'd do that. Basically he wanted to cut some costs for things that he thought customers would not notice, like seldom-used gadgets and thicker carpets.

    That flies in the face of Buick's strategy, though. You can't cut costs and compete with Lexus, you have to add content.

    Toyota could cut costs, because that only made room for Lexus to come in and basically offer those things Toyota was cutting.

    I don't think Bimmers have come with wheel covers for a while. You probably saw a decade old 318i, something like that.

  • I don't think any vehicle over $20k should have wheel covers. My $15k Focus didn't have them.
    As far as the covers the Terraza had, they did look ok (better than the wheel covers on my brothers Camry)but I could still tell they were cheap plastic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I hate the ones the pop off.

    Some are bolted on and I bet a lot of people don't care much as long as they get those.

    I'd just shop for a set of alloys anyway.

  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    I read somewhere that the Buick version (if not all 4 of the vans) will have the DVD player as STANDARD (that means to me, paying standard another $1500).

    Yikes! When will the manufacturers start realizing not to do this? Don't they know that many people do NOT want their kids watching DVD all day long? or that so many people don't want to pay for it? Or that many others want to buy their own aftermarket system??

    I wrote it once in the Sienna board, and I will repeat it here once again: In my opinion, the following should always be stand-alone options in ANY minivan, regardless of trim model: 1) Navigation system; 2) DVD player; 3) leather seating; and 4) power sliding doors and power rear hatch (on minivans).

    All of the 4 features above you can find thousands of people do NOT want them in their vehicle. So don't force it on them.
  • Hey guys, you can order alloys on the Terraza if you want them. They're only around $325 extra. I wish people would stop demanding trivial standard features on cars that jack up the price, particularly for those of us who would never buy a car with alloy wheels (maybe not too many of those here, but trust me, we're out there). Having basic safety equipment, A/C, etc. standard is OK, but there's no reason why everything in the world should be standard, provided the deletions are reflected in a lower MSRP.

    -Andrew L
  • I'm not just a steel wheels troll. I agree with the post above regarding DVD systems and power sliding doors. The power doors sound like a feature that is just waiting to break as soon as the vehicle comes off warranty, and I don't even want to know what the replacement cost on the electrical components is.

    Last time my mom shopped for a car, she looked at a Windstar, and the salesperson first showed her one and made a big deal out of how it came with a DVD system at no extra cost. Her response? "I won't buy a car with a television in it. Show me the next model down."

    -Andrew L
  • Certain brands should not have wheel covers. That was my point. A luxury brand should not have them. If that is truly where Buick is trying to position themselves, then all of their products need to reflect that image.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Makes sense for the Chevy version to have steelies, but I agree a Buick should have alloys standard, just as a Lexus would.

    Marketing cars is a funny thing. If they figure 80% of the customers want something, it's probably more cost effective to just make it standard. Economies of scale and simplicity on the assembly line make it cheaper to do it that way.

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