Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

morewasabi

I guess what gets me is people bash the GM Vehicles and then claim they should of gotten a Honda and Toyota, yet they haven't read those forums. In fact they have separate forums for problems! You pay a premium for them and still have the problems. Biggest one on the 2006 Toyota is now a vibration humming that starts after a few thousand miles on it. After you take it home! People take it in and the dealers replace parts and it gets worse! Toyota AWD systems going bad, and run flat tires that you have to replace every 10,000 miles. Honda, a major vibration and they pull to one side and transmissions going bad. Did I mention transmission problems! It got so bad on the Honda forum that the moderator chimed in and asked if the 2005 Van was the worse vehicle Honda ever made! Complaints also that the Toyota and Hondas are noisy and plastic parts inside, cup holders, trays rattling falling apart. So, again the issues with the GM vehicles are minor, especially for a first year model. Lots of value and features for your $$$. Yes they are missing rear side airbags, but did you know that the Buick has the best rear suspension? In fact the other manufactures will probably copy on their higher end models.

jerrywimer

Yep. We're very happy with ours overall. I only wish it would've got a 5 or 6 speed automatic to help the 3.5l out a bit more.

morewasabi

Yes a 5 speed on the Terraza would have been good. But one good thing is that the GM 4 speed transmission is rock solid. They don't usually go bad. Honda had many transmission problems from 2000-2004. :sick: To early to tell on the 2005, but they are making a humming noise. Did you also know that V6 Toyota and Lexus engines have had a problem in the past with the oil gelling and then the engine consumes large amounts of oil? So, now they stress 5000 miles on all Toyotas and speak about Oil gelling in the manual. Toyota kept this very quiet.

I found some of the complaints about the GM vans comical. One person is complaining about not being able to see the backup sensor light when the DVD screen is down. I guess they don't know how to push the screen up and also don't listen to the back up sensor's audible chime. One person bought the car just for its looks. Hello. Anyone home? You’ve got to look and understand all the features and understand how the mechanics all work before you spend thousands of $$ on a vehicle. You've got to believe that many of these complaints are just user error and lack of car understanding. They really don't know how their vehicle works. The bottom lines is knowing your vehicle and take care of it, and it will be great. It’s unfortunate that people who have complaints are more vocal then owners whom like their van. How about an Edmunds member whose handle is “terribleterraza”? I wonder what their point of view is?? :confuse: Trade your van in for a Honda or Toyota and you can put your complaints on those forums too!

Terraza’s features work well. Yes, it lacks side air bags for the extreme rear passengers; yes the seats don’t fold into the floor (but the Terraza is quieter for it), yes it only has a 4 speed tranny. However standard on the Terraza is Stabilitrac, ABS, Traction control, auto load leveling rear suspension, air compressor, heated mirrors, duel sliding doors, OnStar, DVD entertainment system, front and side airbags, tinted windows, Drivers Information system (temp, compass, more) and Buick’s QuietTuning. I added the remote start, the extra overhead bins an tow package. I wanted the heavy-duty alternator and extra transmission cooler. I have 6 in the family and a dog. Mileage has been good too. Seventeen around town and over 24 on the highway. A 5 speed or 6 speed would add to the mileage numbers. The Van works well. :shades:

jerrywimer

Glad to see I'm not the only one here enjoying our van. I also agree about the rock solid nature of the 4 speed. But I think a lot of the criticism others level at the 3.5l for being weak would disappear with an extra cog or two in the trannie to give it a bit more help leveraging the torque it makes.

morewasabi

I don't know if you have read consumer reports. But they blew their credibility on the review of the Terraza. They test drove a Saturn Relay and said it was noisy. So they assumed the Buick was the same. Now how creditable is that when the Buick is one the quietest vans around because of Buick's Quiettuning? All the other car reviews of the Terraza confirm how quiet it is, they also state after driving the Terraza that the 3.5L has more pep then they would have thought.

jerrywimer

I haven't trusted Consumer Reports for a long time now. Less than unbiased ratings have seen to that. This is just another example of why..

What's especially nice about the Terraza is that the price is pretty much the same as for any of its siblings, when similarly equipped. So you basically get quiet tuning and the fully independent suspension for free.

morewasabi

Exactly! I did lots of research before buying my Terraza. Buick is using the Terraza not only as a cross over vehicle between Minivan and SUV, but also as a cross over to the younger family market. So, you get lots of features for free, like the quiettuning, which has a more refined 3.5L than the other GM siblings, and also the additional quiet tuning adjustments from the tires, suspension and interior acoustics. The rear suspension, like you said, is also an upgrade. It’s the same suspension that they use on the more expensive Rendezvous Ultimate.

One other complaint that also needs to be dismissed is about the sliding automatic doors are more difficult to engage in that you have to tug on them a lot more than the Honda or Toyota. The reason is that’s so, is you’re not suppose to tug on them. The outside door handle is a switch. So all you do is pull the door handle and let the automatic door engage. If you pull on the door handle and then tug the door to open, you’re actually fighting against the door. User error once again! Also regarding the power doors opening by its self. If you have kids engage the child safety door lock as kids can easily open the power sliding doors accidentally by a simple push, by foot or hand, on the interior side door handle. This way the interior handle will not engage the power sliding door. You can still engage the power sliding door from the switch on sides by the drive and passenger front door or use the buttons above the rear view mirror.

Yes the Terreza is the best value when you take into account that you can negotiate a lower price and use all incentives. Saturn normally does not have this flexibility. Plus Buick just up their warranty to 4 years 50,000 miles. That’s more value to consider.

The one issue I have is finding the easiest way for my kids to get to most rear seats. They just squeeze through! :P

cla1

agree with much of the above. We've had the Terraza for about 15 months, and overall are satisfied. We did have the radio replaced recently as it had been intermittent for some time. This was the "no sound" issue that had seemed to disappear all summer, then reappeared with cold weather. Also, our headlights flickered enough to be disconcerting at night in the country, so we had the alternator replaced. Nothing else has been troublesome, and overall very comfortable. I wish they hadn't removed the grabhandle above the passenger seat, and the rear seats are very hard to unfold. Both of these were much better in the 02 Silo we had. The best way to get in the rear seats I think is to slide the 2nd row captain chair ahead, then tilt the seatback up against the passenger seat. Generally these seats are heavy and clumsy to operate. Lifting them out is a nightmare, which we've had to do a couple of times (hauling some drywall!) But we bought it because of good experience with the 98 Venture and the 02 Silo and have been pleased with value. Yes, the Honda is more sophisticated but way more money than it was worth.

morewasabi

The seats are heavy but seemed to be more comfortable than the Honda or Toyota. Sat in a rented Sienna and the seats were overly firm. It has been faster for my kids to squeeze through the seats then tilt them. We avoided the alternator issue by getting the tow package, as that comes with the heavy-duty alternator, so our lights have been solid. We previously had a 95 Pontiac Transport and sold it with a 130K on it.

mirde98

I stoped trusting Consumer Reports after years of subscribing to their magazines. I started to notice that when it came to Toyotas and Hondas they fixed or covered up the problems about the vehicles. I noticed this when they gave a poor rating to the Toyota 4Runner V6 but they publish all the info about the V8 which came out excellent, so at the end of the vehicle description they just mentioned....Oh yeah the V6 is poor....But the V8 is soo excellent that we TOTALLY recommend the vehicle. I mean C' mon! Thats bull#$%^! They didn't publish the vehicle history of the V6. Its was all about the V8. I wonder why? I personally drove a Terraza CXL and i think they are good vans. Yes like all cars they share their load of problems...but Odyssey's and Sienna's are have tons of electrical issues too.

morewasabi

I think it’s really Consumer Reports Marketing plan. GM has the largest market share. So why not bash GM as most of Consumer Reports readers will match the market and own more GM than any other cars or trucks. So, then you recommend a non-GM vehicle. Wow, what value Consumer Reports brings as they are really looking out for me. Not!!
They’re just fishing. Once Toyota becomes number one they’ll start recommending GM again!!!
Why else would they blatantly say the Terraza is the same as the Saturn that they tested? Shows that Consumer reports is not doing their homework. The Buick has Quiet Tuning, more refined 3.5L (has a special cam-shaft, engine acoustical damping cover), and Independent rear suspension with auto load levelers. It rides quieter and smoother than the Saturn, Chevy and Pontiac. But Consumer Reports, looking out for us against big bad GM, lumps them all together. For the value the Terraza gives you more than the others. The others are good to, but you don’t get the refinements unless you get the AWD model for the suspension upgrade.

blessingsx4

While you are sharing yours, please refrain from discrediting others opinions and feelings on this board. I did not buy my Uplander for looks. I am no longer allowed to discuss the serious safety related concerns per claires, but I will tell you this. After months of attempts, GM admitted there was no fix for my vehicle's safety related issues and refused to buy it back. It was apparently my fault for purchasing a brand new vehicle and assuming it would properly function throughout the first year of my owner ship. What is more comical than our posts is your ignorant reaction. If GM is as great as you all claim, why didn't they just replace my car that they cannot fix as opposed to me having to retain legal counsel in order to make them follow the law. Just watch out if any of your vehicles suddenly experience any irrepairable condition. You all may have a change of heart. Keep in mind that you all have the vehicles we wanted and thought we were buying... the ones that preformed as promised, and it isn't cool to insult us and rub that in out faces. So I personally would appreciate you refraining from speaking negatively toward or about anyone having difficulties with their vehicles. Thank you and I look forward to having some civilized conversations with you all in the future. And one more thing. You don't know me or my knowledge of cars. DO NOT insult me or the others having problems again by saying our issues are driver error. They are GM engineering and production problems. End of story.

morewasabi

Yes everyone has their own opinion but problems with vehicles are not just a GM exclusivity. Check out the other manufacture forums, especially the top rated Honda Odyssey. I understand your point. But this forum is also for those of us whom like our vans. You took the correct course of action and followed it through. But come on now, when some of the postings are just an exercise in bashing every little item on the Van from the sunglass holder being too small, lack of 2 front armrests, seats that recline into the person behind them, one posting even stating that the second row seats were designed for someone called “Pegleg” and DVD screens that block the backup warning lights, then you have to ask why did they purchase the Van? I like the Terraza, choosing it over the other GM siblings, and I like the built in extras, features, comfort, ride and quality to date. I also like the savings over not buying the Honda or Toyota. My apologies, as I am truly sorry for those with negative experiences and I hope it all works out. Caveat Emptor.

blessingsx4

my complaints about the sunglass holders and other such things were my attempt at vailed sarcasim because I was frustrated that we could no longer discuss the more serious issues at hand and most of my more serious posts were being removed. The two front arm rest thing, however, is really bad on long (23 hr) trips because you tend to lean to the side with the rest on it and it causes major back spasms. You wouldn't be able to tell that during a test drive or day to day operation, but after that long of a drive it was evident how much of an inconveince it was. I wish you could have read some of the other posts so you could have taken what I said in the proper context.

just4fun2

I understand what you are saying about the lack of two front seat arm rests, but what minivan has them? Wouldn't that make it harder getting in or out of the van?

morewasabi

I really didn't get it. Now I understand the sarcasm. I agree with you that everyone should get a product that they are happy with. Also the company's ultimate goal should be to have a very satisfied customer. I guess we have been lucky and we like our van. I hope that you get it all worked out and a Vehicle that works for you. One that works well too! Our first long trip was about 15 hours long; 7 of us, with new baby, 12 yr old, 8 yr old, wife, mother-in-law and dog! The van did great and I was very happy with our decision to purchase the Terraza. Hey I even got along with my Mother-in-law!!! The kids enjoyed the DVD with the headphones. We had different heat settings in the front two zones and also in back. Very comfortable all the way.

technical1

For those of you with back problems, here is some information that the media "experts" have ignored...

The seats in the Chevy Uplander (and it’s GM relatives) appear to be some of the few that are designed for correct spinal positioning. If you sit in a Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna, or Chrysler minivan (and many cars, for that matter), you will notice that your hips are substantially below your knees and that you have to lean forward to reach the steering wheel. This puts your spine in the “flexion” position, which can exacerbate disc herniation by imparting excessive pressure on the front region of the spinal discs in the lower back. Many people focus on the existence of a lumbar support, but excessive bottom seat tilt is a more critical issue. I have noticed that only the GM minivans have spinally correct seating, and seem to have maintained this throughout the three minivan generations. The bottom cushions have considerably less tilt than others, and the power seats can be adjusted so that they have minimal tilt.

Based on media reports, I thought that buying a Honda Odyssey would be a very “safe” purchase, and so I went to a Honda dealer thinking I would follow through on purchasing an Odyssey. However, apparently the media has totally missed numerous important technical issues. For example, in one article they called the Honda Odyssey seats “supportive.” When I tested a 2006 EX model, I discovered that the power seat had excessive bottom cushion tilt, and was very uncomfortable. The Honda dealer salesman sympathized, explaining that his wife had back problems and that no Honda seat would work for her either. The dealer went on to recommend that I look at the GM minivans. Having previously rented an Uplander, I agreed that the seats were considerably more comfortable, by comparison.

While I was at the Honda dealer, I also noticed other issues with the Odyssey. The Odyssey’s instrumentation was blocked by the steering wheel, whereas it was very easily visible in the Uplander. The Odyssey’s gear shift lever is located on the dash, and is generally obtrusive. The radio/air controls are out of reach, whereas the Uplander’s are very easy to reach. The Odyssey sat low to the ground, which is not preferred on camping trips or when riding over speed bumps. The Uplander has a higher stance, and provides more utility characteristics. The Odyssey’s engine was noisier than I expected, and had noticeable valve clatter, whereas the Uplander’s 3.5L engine seems quieter and more silky at low RPM’s. Up close, the Odyssey seemed excessively “glitzy” for a minivan. I was not impressed, especially when the side door would not open so I could let my son out of the back seat! I, like others, have also noticed a steady stream of message board complaints about power train problems on the Odyssey, whereas I have rarely (if ever) seen issues with the GM vans.

Our 1994 Chevy Lumina van (which has served us well over the past decade) has a 3.8L engine with 170 peak horsepower, and has approximately the same weight/peak horsepower ratio as the Uplander with the 3.5L engine (205 peak horsepower). Our Lumina van has a completely different feel during acceleration, however. The 3.8L engine (a close cousin of the Buick 3800) has good low end torque, and feels responsive but quiet. Rarely do I have to rev it up to handle various driving situations. This was not the case with the Uplander that I rented with the 3.5L engine, however. I sometimes had to force it to shift down to accelerate through some situations I encountered. In my opinion, the 3.5L engine does not have the low end torque that I am used to. I think the 3900 engine is probably the way to go if you plan to keep a vehicle as long as I do. Unfortunately, most Uplanders on the car lots are typically equipped with the 3.5L engine, so you may have to custom order one from the factory (as I have done recently).

jerrywimer

The need to wind the 3.5L a bit to keep speed or accelerate in some situations is one of my few gripes too. I'm sure it's not really a flaw with the engine so much as part of its design (most recent engines, OHC or OHV are being tuned for more mid-high rpm powerbands). But I'm used to the lower end torquiness that required less throttle to get / keep moving. Be sure to let us know how your 3.9L compares to the 3.5 you tested, once you've had a chance to drive it a bit, and thanks for your feedback!

morewasabi

We had a 1995 Transport with the 3800 engine. The engine had good low-end torque. However, the 3.5L seems to be more responsive, snappier. Could that be because the new vans have an electronic throttle from the gas pedal versus the old cable?
Also don’t know if you have had the problem with the older 3.8L engines having a design flaw with the intake manifold developing a coolant leak? They used plastic intake manifold covers that would warp on the aluminum. You wouldn’t see the leak until the winter when the plastic would shrink a little. Had to have that fixed 3 times over 130,000 miles with the first 2 under warranty. Surprisingly they fixed it correctly when it was off warranty and I had to pay for it! Other than that the 3800 engine was great. Never used any oil. I started putting in Mobile 1 after the first year. I am using Mobile 1 on the new van too. The new van feels bigger, longer and the turning radius is a little bigger. However, the steering is tighter, the brakes are the best, and the acceleration off the line does seem snappier. The ride is quieter and all around more comfortable. The thing that you’re really going to love over your Lumina Van is that the blind spot on the driver’s side is gone! :shades: I agree with the seats. They do make a long ride feel short. Thanks for your write up!

blessingsx4

My conversion van had them and they folded up so you could enter and exit easily.

jk27

If armrests were that important to you ... you should have purchased a vehicle that had armrests for both arms. Sounds like a custom conversion van is the only vehicle that comes with this feature.

You knew when you purchased this vehicle that it did not have dual armrests.

I challenge you to drive 23 hours in ANY vehicle and be perfectly comfortable.

odie6l

I got to see what the front end would look like after a accident on a Saturn Relay. I was out TD a '06 MPV yesterday and the Saturn Dealership right down the road is were it happened. A person TD'n a Relay had just pulled out of the dealership directly in front of a large Harley. Both the motorcycle rider and Relay driver had to be flown to the hospital as a precaution. It looked pretty nasty (for the motorcycle), but the Van looked like it held up pretty good.

Odie

haditwithmyvan

My door opening on its own was just that, IT OPENED ON ITS OWN, my daughter was sound aleep when the door opened, so I can tell you that she did NOT bump any button. And GM says that while in gear these doors are NOT to open under any circumstances whatsoever. PERIOD. Another customer at my dealer is currently having her van bought back by GM for the SAME thing....we are a small town, what are the odds that two vans have the same problem? THAT IS NOT DRIVER ERROR, its poor quality vehicles. I agree with blessingsx4, we bought these vans because we loved them and they were what we wanted until they became unsafe for us to drive. If mine never had a problem at all I would still be driving it BUT I would NOT degrade those who did have problems with theirs.

morewasabi

did you get a new van yet?

pelinaca1

When I first read that this problem was happening to some I thought that perhaps the children were accidentally hitting the button either while awake (perhaps out of curiosity) or while sleeping (perhaps they were dreaming and their leg jumped and hit the button). Then upon further thought I realized this didn't make sense as I know that on my '05 Saturn Relay 3 that I have to do 3 different things for the sliding doors to open. First I must come to a complete stop. Second I must put the vehicle in park. Third I must manually unlock the doors (I deactivated the auto unlock through the personalization options). Only then will the doors open (at least using the buttons above the rearview mirror). I thank God I have not had this problem nor many of the ones listed here. I did get a recall notice on the harmonic balancer, took it to my Saturn dealer and in approx. 30 minutes I was back on the road. On a trip to NJ we used the DVD player and at no time was there any interference with the DVD player (in fact one of the people riding in the back remarked that they couldn't believe how far we had gone in the time they were watching the movie, they said the time flew by). No wind or whining noises. No clunks, bumps, taps, pings, clicks or any other unusual noises. Headlights are extremely bright. Radio works like a charm. I've even been using the OnStar vehicle diagnostics reports (if you have OnStar you can sign up for this free service and once a month OnStar runs a complete diagnostic on engine, transmission, ABS, Airbags, the OnStar system, the mileage, if an oil change is needed as well as percentage of oil life left as well as any other issues which it then sends you an email report with the findings, a really nice feature to have). I only transport adults (mainly older ones at that, all 59+ yrs. old and one is an 84 yr. old female all of which have no difficulty at all getting in or out of the van) and we have seated 3 adults in the third row seat by simply sliding the second row forward and then tilting it against the front seat. Thankfully no erratic pulling or anything. Brakes are smooth, solid and quite effective. Knock wood we have been all good so far. The engine has never been anything less than impressive including when we have 7 full sized adults in the vehicle. It takes off with authority and seems to never "run out of steam". I have read the posts here about front leg room and I am completely puzzled, I am a 6'3" tall male that weighs in excess of 300 lbs. and I have plenty of leg room in both front seats as well as plenty of room in general. I posted back several months ago about an experience this past summer when we went shopping at Kmart and we bought a new patio set which came in an enormous box as well as a separate box for the table top. We also had quite a number of bags and frankly when I saw the employee bringing out the box and I looked into the rear of the van (I had folded down the third row seats and with the storage bin behind that it was a flat load floor) I was concerned that the boxes wouldn't fit. Well my eyes bugged right out of my head when not only did both boxes slide right in with no difficulty at all but the bags fit with room to spare, amazing! There were four full sized adults on that shopping trip and the second row seats were able to be all the way back on their track so everything fit, and everyone was comfortable, again amazing! Then on a different occasion we were given an artificial Christmas tree which had already been assembled and decorated so we didn't want to tear it down just to transport it home and this included the box the tree came in as well as several large bags. We had 4 full sized adults and one 12 yr. old child and the tree went right in, the box went right in, the bags went right in and all of us had room to spare not to mention that the door closed with room to spare (this was a 6' Christmas tree!). If the need were ever there for more items a simple removal of the second row and third row seats and the storage bin and viola you have enough room to haul all you could ever want or need. On yet a third occasion we helped a gentleman move so there was 3 full sized adults plus all his belongings including his bed and it all fit in one trip with room to spare. We have had a lot of people remark about how sharp the van is (it's the Coastal Grey in all the ads and brochures). One female met us outside one day to say she loved how the van looked and when we pointed out all the features she just couldn't get over it and she left with the intention of going to get one for herself as she was especially impressed both with the roominess as well as the features the van has. Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to add my "2 cents" to the conversation. I am terribly sorry to hear all the problems so many of you are having with your vans and I hope everything works out for the best for you. I will continue to post every few months to update my experiences and impressions of my Relay.

morewasabi

In the 2005 Buick Terraza Owner’s Manual Page 5-95 there is an error. In the capacity grid it shows 4 qts for Oil change with filter. If you go online and down load the owner’s manual it is corrected to 4.5 qts. Found this out when the dealer was changing my oil. I bring my own Mobile 1 oil and only had 4 qts with me. Came up 1/2 qt shy. They advised me of my error and I researched and found the correction on line. Not sure if this error is in Saturn, Chevrolet, or Pontiac too?

Capacities and Specifications
The following approximate capacities are given in English and metric measurements. See Recommended Fluids and
Lubricants on page 6-11 for more information.
Application
Capacities
English Metric
Air Conditioning Refrigerant Systems
Front A/C 1.7 lbs 0.8 kg
Front and Rear A/C 2.2 lbs 1.0 kg
Automatic Transaxle — Pan Removal and Replacement 7.4 quarts 7.0 L
AWD Automatic Transaxle — Pan Removal and
Replacement 8.7 quarts 8.3 L
Cooling System
Front A/C 11.3 quarts 10.7 L
Front and Rear A/C 12.8 quarts 12.2 L
Engine Oil with Filter 4.5 quarts 4.3 L
Fuel Capacity
Regular 20.0 gallons 75.7 L
Extended 25.1 gallons 95.0 L
Wheel Nut Torque 100 ft lb 140Y
All capacities are approximate. When adding, be sure to fill to the approximate level, as recommended in this
manual. Recheck fluid level after filling.
Engine VIN Code Transaxle Spark Plug Gap
3.5L V6 8 Automatic 0.060 inches (1.52 mm)

haditwithmyvan

I do NOT want another van. The problems with these vans are obviously not going to go away and I do not trust the doors at all. GM is buying mine back and I am picking a different vehicle out. I am thinking about hiring a lawyer though because I have not had my van in 3 months although I have been making the payments on it. And GM is not doing anything about all the money that I have already paid on this vehicle and it has been having problems since it only had 500 miles on it. SO I never got any good use out of it. Not sure what to do....any suggestions?

morewasabi

Maybe you could negotiate with them for a free extended warranty on the new vehicle for your extended hardship and fear of having problems with another GM product. Also research the Edmunds forums, the www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ and the JD Powers web sites on the potential new vehicle that you pick out so that you won’t get any surprises. Good luck to you and maybe we will see you on another forum.

pelinaca1

Thank's for the heads up! I just checked the owner's manual on my Saturn Relay and it reads correctly. Page 5-103 under Capacities and Specifications reads "Engine Oil with Filter" 4.5 quarts/ 4.3L. All the capacities and specs. you reference above are exactly the same as in my Saturn Relay owner's manual. My manual is copyrighted 2004 General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved. Litho in USA Part No. 05RELAY A First Edition. You should check your manual to see what it says about the print version, maybe it is an old version? Anyway, thanks for the heads up and thankfully my Saturn Relay owner's manual has the correct information.

blessingsx4

HIRE THE LAWYER!!! I did and I got my lein payed off and all the money I had put into the vehicle (minus a small fee for depreciation) AND they (GM) paid for my lawyer. I now am driving a 03 Windstar that I couldn't be happier with. I was afraid to buy a new model like the Freestar for fear it would have similar "new model" issues.

karlbr

I also would like some tips on the buyback process... We have an Uplander LT with the flickering lights. Its on about its 4th alternator, and had the radio die before. The shop has basically told us they wont do anything more with the flickering problems, although they continue. They actually told us this was "normal operation" and handed us a service bulletin for 1990 to 2002 GM cars, that had been "updated" to apply to 2003-2005, talking about how it was typical for lights to dim when the alternator was not providing enough electricity to power lights, etc at idle... in any case, any help would be appreciated

islandgirl2006

First- Thank you to all the owners who post here- I have made a couple little posts over time, but it has helped me a lot reading about the troubles others have had and possible solutions to my van's troubles. Here is my Montana's story. I bought my 05 Montana SV6 in October 2005, slightly used- about 21,000kms on it, from my local dealer as a 'rental return'. We had not been planning on buying a van quite that new, but since it was an 05 with full warranty, etc, we decided to put out the extra few thousand over the 03 Windstar we were considering, Grand Caravan, etc. We really liked the look of the front end, the fact that it didn't quite look like a 'soccer mom' van, and many of the other nice features. First off the dealership messed up bigtime- only one key/keyfob, no safety inspection, and many other issues, but since that only concerns the local dealership I will stick to the van issue. I took it in for a service 2 weeks after I bought it (it came with the 'oil life' left at 23%)and told them there were a few issues- I hope I get all of this in the right order- the door mouldings were peeling off, there was a vibration in the front end, it had a bad alignment, the 3rd row passenger side seat belt kept retracting and tightening up on my 8 year old, there was a 'knocking' in the front end, the driver's seat would not lock in to place- we had to give it a hard wiggle to get it to lock in most of the time, and the starter would keep turning over after the vehicle had already started, or it would turn over for a few seconds and completely die. I would have to start it 3-5 times before it would finally go. I think that was all for the first time. They told me we were starting it wrong- just give the key a quick flick over and it would start on it's own because it's all electronic, and they told me the seat belt was made to retract because it was for car seats, so we were also doing that wrong- we had to only pull it out as far as we needed it, not all the way to the end to engage the retractor feature (my 55 pound skinny 8 year old doesn't have to pull the seat belt out far to do it up, but they are the experts....). They ordered the mouldings, took it for a test drive, said the 'knocking' was a broken strut, fixed the drivers seat, and ordered a brand new tire because the 'tire was gone', although they didn't tell me what 'gone' meant to them. When I took it back in after the parts came in, they decided it was the link from the sway bar (I don't know much about cars so I hope this all makes sense) and ordered yet another part, it wasn't the other problem they thought it was. I told them we tried the seat belt 'properly' and it still tightened up- they test drove it and discovered it really did do it, and ordered a new seat belt. The 4 months I have had this vehicle have been a never-ending series of events just like this. So far the vehicle has been in the shop every 2 weeks at the most- sometimes every week, since I have had it. I have been in 5 different rental vehicles (each time detaching 3 car seats and moving them to the next vehicle, arranging a sitter to come so I can go pick it up without 4 children in tow, driving the rental back, getting the shuttle to the dealership, etc, etc...)It has had the link replaced to the sway bar, a tire replaced and re-alignment done, the seat belt replaced, the mouldings replaced, the PCV (PVC??? whichever) valve replaced (Thanks to this sight- I thought it was just me), the middle seats that had been recalled hadn't ever been fixed, and it has been in 5 times in an attempt to find the problem with the starter. Thank goodness it actually didn't start once for them so they know the problem really does exist, it's not just my imagination. They thought they had it once when they found a tube that the vacuum seal was gone on and was putting the wrong amount of fuel to it when it started, too much air, not enough gas... something like that (again, not so good with car stuff.... forgive me). I have had them check the horn- they can't find a problem with the fact that I have to push so hard my arm hurts when a person is backing up in a parking lot and not checking their rear view and almost hits me, or something runs out in to the middle of the road when I'm driving... they say the customer complaint can't be duplicated, another clunking showed up a couple weeks ago and they had to put in some insulators in the wheel wells or something like that, the valve that was whistling at 2200 rpm was replaced and now whistles quieter at 2400 rpm, the seat does not lock in anymore- lasted about 2 months before it went again. I haven't complained about the lump in the drivers seat, the speaker that's blown (I don't listen to loud music with 3 or 4 kids in the car pretty much all the time so it wasn't from me), the gauge that says how far I can go on the remaining gas has fluctuated up to 170 km under the exact same driving conditions, from one day to the next (gone up, not down... driving my usual home, school, work routine) and I honestly don't even know if I got all the problems listed, it has all just blended together. The service department fully admits there is something seriously wrong with the vehicle but they don't know what, and that the vehicle is honestly a lemon because it has new problems cropping up all the time, the same constant problems they can't fix, and some plain old weird stuff going on with it. They said it has nothing to do with the way it has been treated or driven, the fact that it was an ex-rental, it is just a problem car. I finally phoned the salesman last week and told him I was done with it. It was really hard because I love my Montana- I went from a very old Mazda MPV- this was my first 'new-ish' car. After back and forth phone calls a bunch of times and a couple trips to the dealer, they have agreed to give me back the purchase price in full towards a new 2006 model. So here I wait for the dealership to call and tell me my new one is in (they didn't have the color I like so I had to pay an extra $200 to bring one in), praying that this one does not have the issues- that it was only pure bad luck that I had a lemon. I love the vehicle and I am willing to give it another try. I started this 'adventure' planning on spending about $18,000 for a used vehicle, spent $23,000 including tax for a slightly used one, and today I have to put out another $9,200 including tax for a new one. Not so easy with 3 small kids, but I don't see another option- next year when the warranty is up I won't be able to get a new one without putting up $15,000 +, and I have lost all faith in this one and wouldn't chance keeping it without a warranty on it. No one else would give me the full value I paid as a trade-in. I am happy to get a new vehicle- I've never had anything brand new, but it's going to be hard to pay out that much more than we had planned. We had intended on keeping this one for at least 5 years, so hopefully we will be able

odie6l

But I'm wondering if the added Sport Package* (that seems to be very hard to find) that gives you the bigger engine (3.9ltr) would remedy the situation. Also the Towing Package* gives you a Heavy Duty alternator, that may also remove the problem.

Odie

*both of these options are for the Pontiac SV6.

karlbr

I believe the towing package with the larger alternator would fix it... but it doesnt justify it being "optional" to have a vehicle free of distracting/dangerous "kinks." And I'm not sure the dealer would add a better alternator to solve the problem...

morewasabi

I have the tow package with the heavy-duty alternator and have not had any of the electrical issues. Had the horn issue and resolved it by pushing it a bunch of times, and now it works normally. Had the PVC value replaced to stop the whistling. Had a coupling on the rear heater hose replace in the engine compartment due to a small leak that I found.

lsauer

I just purchased my 2006 Uplander 2 months ago and the headlights and interior lights are flickering, so the issue continues with the 2006 model. I must look interesting driving down the road at night. So I called and spoke with a technician, he said that he hadn't heard of any such problems (red flag). He thought it would be a good idea to bring it in to have a look, my headlight beams are also pointing to the right as well. I bought this car to get rid of a 2 year old lemon and I thought since I had previously owned a 1999 Venture and had very little issues with it I couldn't go too wrong buying another van, but now I'm worried. :confuse:

morewasabi

Go to this site and you can find all of the Technical Service Bulletins also research all complaints on your vehicle, http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/home.cfm

No TSB for 2006 Uplander, but for 2005 found the following

Make : CHEVROLET Model : UPLANDER Year : 2005
Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Service Bulletin Num : 050603003 Date of Bulletin: AUG 01, 2005
NHTSA Item Number: 10014992
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Technical Service Bulletins Summary

Make: CHEVROLET
Model: UPLANDER
Year: 2005
Type: TRUCK
Service Bulletin Number: 050603003
NHTSA Item Number: 10014992
Summary Description:
HEADLIGHTS AND INTERIOR LIGHTS FLICKER. *TT

morewasabi

Oh and when you go to http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/home.cfm
check out Honda and Toyota vans. You will find that there are over 70 complaints on the Honda and around 60 complaints on the Toyota. There are only 38 complaints on the GM Vans. :shades:

gmhellman

I was reading over at the Chrysler posts and someone had experienced the same problems on thier 06 Chrysler T&C. When they would reach their hand back to press the button on the pillar the door would start to open even before they had got near the button. He said that it occured when his hand got near the seatbelt over his left shoulder. He had turned the power doors off until he could get it into his dealer. It appears this is becoming a problem not only at GM but other companies also. I am wondering if there is maybe a short in the pillars and the switch is being tripped when the wires rub or maybe if the van flexes during travel. Should be interestng to see what happens.

dtownfb

Godd observation gmhellman. From what I can gather from other forums on Edmunds, every minivan manufacture has had issues with electronic doors. Of course, it doesn't make the owner feel better but it is common.

kennyg1

I bought my 2005 Montana SV6 12 months ago and have had no problems at all.
I know some find this MPG to be impossible and I wouldn't have believe it if someone tole me:
I drive a 2005 Pontiac Montana SV6 and the estimates for it are 18 city, 25 highway. I drove from Tulsa to Houston during Xmas, 530 miles, on a single tank and got 29.9 mile/gallon according to the digital readout. (Had 1/4 tank left too) When I filled up (I always top it off to get an accurate read)the actual REAL mpg was 28.5 I drove 70-75mph about 90% of the 8 hour trip. Stopped only twice to go to the bathroom. BUT, I accelerated slowly, tried not to use my brakes, etc. I also filled my tires to 38lbs before leaving Tulsa.
I was actually playing a game where I was trying to get the best possible mpg and watching the digital MPG readout go up and down according to speed, stops, etc.

So now I am sure that they don't use the best possible conditions and speed to get the estimated mpg.
But most young people (I am 49) accelerate and use their brakes way too often and this lowers your mileage more than you realize.

morewasabi

That's awesome gas mileage! Did you have some extra reindeer pulling you? :P

jkkfly

How long had you had your van when the sliding door flew open?

I've heard of this problem with other new vans too. I think it was the Odyssey.

jkkfly

Could someone please explain to me whether I should purchase the 3.9L engine option on a GM van. I am a mom of four active boys with a lot of in town driving.

I don't know what the practical difference is between the engine types.

Also, how much wear and tear is it on the new Buick or Saturn vans to add the trailer/touring package and pull a boy scout cargo trailer? Can it pull a trailer? I thought it's not a good idea for v6 to pull a trailer.

Thanks,

morewasabi

As a rule I would always go with the bigger engine. Get the tow package and you will be fine. I like the Buick over the Saturn as it comes with auto load leveling rear. The tow package comes with the heavy duty alternator ( you won't have any of the electrical issues), Transmission cooler, Tow harness, hitch. Rated at 3500 lbs.

jkkfly

Thanks. I appreciate the info.

odie6l

the 3.9ltr is rated for 240HP vs. the 3.5ltr with 200HP. But the downside is your CANNOT get the AWD with the 3.9ltr (FWD ONLY). So if you wanted the AWD you would not be able to have the larger engine. Plus the larger engine has more torque, which will be better for your towing needs. As for the diffenece with Gas mileage, it doesn't look any worse for wear. The mileage looks about 1-2 mpg less than the 3.5ltr (fwd) and the same for the 3.5ltr with AWD.

Odie

dave_justdave

I have the 3.9L V6 on our new Buick Terazza and I absolutely love it. The vehicle accelerates beautifully, nice and smooth on the highway and there is definitely extra pep available for pulling trailers or a whole van full of people - I would recommend it, especially since I didnt pay an extra dime for it here in Canada - just request it on the van when they find you the one you want. The mileage differential seems to be zero by the way.
Dave

jkkfly

Thanks Dave and Odie!

drakedarbymom

Appreciate your feedback!!

And your feelings are the same as mine. However, I think with the cases of faulty vehicles that we read about here goes to prove that GM does make a few Lemons!! And these lemons...they (GM) need to take responsiblity for!!

My family and our business have owned about 10 GM vehicles in the last 8 years (we like to trade the company vehicles every few years). I know that my van is NOT GM quality!! I just need GM to accept the responibility and let me out of this lemon headache!

I came to this forum to look for advice on how to handle my Lemon case and I have received it.