Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

bill_mcgonigle

No, where'd you get that idea? On my '05 there's a power plug in the bottom of the dash, under the cup holders. It's always-on, which might be good for a cell phone, but a Tom Tom will kill the battery overnight.

Anybody know how to convert one to key-switched? My 36000 mile warranty is well over.

infinia1

I swear my new 07 Terraza CXL, purchased 3 days ago, doesn't have one (it's at home with the wife so I can't go check).

Here's what's in the Owner's Manual: "Your vehicle may be equipped with a front accessory power outlet located below the climate controls on the instrument panel. It can be used to plug in electrical equipment such as a cellular telephone or CB radio."

May be equipped??? Ya...well...I don't think mine has one. I'll look again tonight. :sick:

What about a tire pressure monitor? I don't think it has that feature either. Even my 99 Regal has that too!

bill_mcgonigle

Well, check all the way down by the floor - it's not obvious on mine.

If they did take it out - wow! they get some kind of award for the dumbest thing a car company did for '07.

infinia1

Ok, ok...I'm an idiot!

I found the power port...hiding...way down by the floor like you said. I was just going by what the owner's manual said, "...located below the climate controls on the instrument panel." Well I guess they ARE below...WAY below. I'm just glad I found it. My wife is happy again.

Now I have to figure out how to program the homelink for the garage door. Thanks bill.

bill_mcgonigle

I know what you mean - my manuals appear to try to cover as generic a vehicle as they can for as many pages as possible. I mean, for a thirty thousand dollar vehicle they can't very well be expected to write a unique and accurate manual, can they? :P

bill_mcgonigle

Does anybody else have a problem with the AWD System disabling itself just when you need it? It seems to be caused by icy slush. I think last time we had it to the dealer they had to reset something in the computer, and blamed it on a wet sensor. '05 SV6 :confuse:

monty8

Mini vans transport children. Children should have side curtain airbags. To put side impact airbags in the front and not in the rear, when it is equipped with at least five more seats, is a terrible decision. Any parent would agree. Our children's safety is of utmost importance. Side windows are usually only down when driving through a park, so the kids can see better, at speeds under 20 km. As far as the power windows, I have had nothing but GM vehicles for the last twenty years, and never experienced any problems. Side curtain airbags should be available. For someone with no children, it is an option that they can choose not to take. For parents, the option is a vital one.

bsrice

I have a Saturn Relay (05), after the first 8000 miles and 1 rotation of my tires my rear tires were cupping and wearing the inside of the tires. So after some complaining of the noise etc, Saturn Dealership put 2 new tires on. 12000 miles later same thing, tires on the rear cupping and making noise. I have them balanced and rotated every 6-8000 miles, have it aligned 1x a year. At about 25000 miles another 2 tires go on. I started to question the tires (Integrity) and the vechicle itself. A new van should not go through tires. 43000 guess what, rear tires cupping and wearing the inside. Saturn says alignment is to specs. Called 800 number and set up ticket, asked if anyone else is having this problem. Finally took to an autobody shop for second opinion. They put it on the alignment machine, said it was to Saturn specs, but that the rear camber looked alittle too much for a van. -1.1 and -1.2. This causes it to run on the inside tread. Told Saturn this, its is for better handleing. 4 sets of tires is not better handleing. So my 05 with 53,000 miles is going through tires. Anyone else have this issue with their Saturn Relay/Uplander sisters?

bsrice

I have a Saturn Relay (05), after the first 8000 miles and 1 rotation of my tires my rear tires were cupping and wearing the inside of the tires. So after some complaining of the noise etc, Saturn Dealership put 2 new tires on. 12000 miles later same thing, tires on the rear cupping and making noise. I have them balanced and rotated every 6-8000 miles, have it aligned 1x a year. At about 25000 miles another 2 tires go on. I started to question the tires (Integrity) and the vehicle itself. A new van should not go through tires. 43000 guess what, rear tires cupping and wearing the inside. Saturn says alignment is to specs. Called 800 number and set up ticket, asked if anyone else is having this problem. Finally took to an auto body shop for second opinion. They put it on the alignment machine, said it was to Saturn specs, but that the rear camber looked a little too much for a van. -1.1 and -1.2. This causes it to run on the inside tread. Told Saturn this, its is for better handling. 4 sets of tires is not better handling. So my 05 with 53,000 miles is going through tires. Anyone else have this issue with their Saturn Relay/Uplander sisters?

bill_mcgonigle

Just a follow-up: I confirmed with the dealer that the hub assembly's AWD sensor can get covered up with mud or slush and the AWD system will disable. In our case, this time, it turned out that the sensor had gone bad, so we had to replace the whole front-right hub assembly. Any AWD system that gets disabled by slush is ludicrously designed, and borderline negligent with regards to safety. I think I'll file a problem report with the NHTSA so it's on-file for others to find.

ray80

Mud and slush by itself shouldn't be a problem, but if enough moisture is allowed intrusion into connection and corrosion follows, that create a problem.

bill_mcgonigle

I agree, it shouldn't be a problem, but the dealer says mere accumulation of mud or slush on the sensor is sufficient to disable the AWD. I have a case open with Pontiac to see what they have to say.

genmtrfan

Our '05 Uplander's Integrity's were toast at 16K miles. Rear cupping also a problem. However, I replaced them with Yokahama Avid TRZ's (I think) and now have 33,000 trouble-free miles. I try to rotate about every 5K, but don't always do it. The best thing about these tires are the quiet, soft ride, good handling, and better traction in the rain. They're rated for 80K miles, but I doubt I'll get that, looking more like 60K.

In 2006, the GM vans went to a six-lug design, up from 5 lugs in 2005. I wonder if 2006-2008 owners are having tire problems, or if the new wheels addressed it?

One good thing is that we're on the original front and rear brake pads at 50K miles, although I have had the rotors resurfaced twice.

In May, the Van will be 3 years old so I'll give a detailed update then. In general, most problems were resolved within the first year under warranty.

sv6regal

On my 06 SV6 the tires were making noises so I had the algniment done and the front was way out(20,000km) so much that it needed a camber adjustment bolt 50.00 which is BS I said it must have been out of wack since the van was new(of course I lost this agruement with the service dept)The Goodyears are crap like most of the van.I had a Vibe before and it had tire problems like the van it had a solid rear axle which was out of spec which cause's tire wear all you can do is rotate every oil change.

sv6regal

The lights seem to fine but moulds are not the drivers sliding door mould has been replaced 2xs

bill_mcgonigle

This issue was assigned ODI# 10221777 at the NHTSA, if anybody else wants to add to it.

stobar

My 2005 Buick Terraza has been having problems with the passenger side automatic door. Every once in awhile, the passenger side automatic door will close, but not fully latch, then open back up. It will not latch completely. I took it in to have it looked at and got the standard "could not duplicate problem". Is there a TSB on this or can someone steer me in the right direction for a fix to this? I had this same problem a little over a year ago and they thought it was due to the rubber molding not being seated correctly so they replaced the molding. That worked for about 5 months, and once again, the door will periodically not latch fully and reopen. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

rlmiller9

Our Saturn Relay had the same issue, I think they fixed it and charged me like 200$, and when we were on vacation with some friends of ours that had an 8 year old odyseus and there doors still worked that was what made me decide to trade the saturn.

stobar

Thanks. I still have over 20K miles left on a 5 year, 60K, 0 deductible warranty, so I'll keep taking it back until they fix. I believe there might be a TSB on this, just need to research it. Have had it for over 2 years and love all the bells and whistles so no plan on trading it in. I've put 40K on it and the gas mileage is surprisingly good for its size. I knew someone that owned the Saturn Relay and they had all sorts of problems with it. I've been lucky with the Terraza.

rlmiller9

I think they are the same vans?
We actually really liked ours, had the backup helpers, dvd player, roomy. The mileage was good, I just got a bad feeling from it .
Also had a 0% loan which made it even harder to trade, but we used it to (very occasionaly) pull our small boat and that made me even more nervous. I wanted to lease another but they stoped making the saturn version so we went with a sienna.

markdel

I own a 2006 Saturn Relay 3 and the only problem I've had is that intermittenly the Power door (right side) will close, then open slightly and close again like it was reseating or trying to relock... But, other than that, no problems. And, that only happens once or twice a month, maybe. I bought it in October of 2006, and have 28,000 miles on it.
Mark

bill_mcgonigle

This month the third wheel bearing went, the rear wiper motor 'burned out', and the front and rear knuckle bushings are shot. Nobody makes replacement bushings apparently, so the whole assemblies needs replacing to the tune of about $1700 altogether. 55K miles, paid off in three months...

Speaking of paid off, has anybody noticed how poor the resale value is on these things? Not even three years old, the $32K vehicle lists on KBB for under $9K. The comparable Toyota does almost 50% better. (yeah, I can see why)

genmtrfan

Is your van AWD? They seem to have had more trouble. How did you know when a wheel bearing was going out? We have 50K on ours and have had to replace a control arm link which was $30. I replaced that myself. That's all the money we've spent on it. We had the typical molding/flickering headlight issues that were fixed under warranty. I haven't heard a lot of people talk about wheel bearings or knuckle bushings on this site. By the way, what is a knuckle bushing?

So far we're very pleased with ours. We're averaging 21 mpg in mixed driving and 25 on trips. From what I read, the Oddessy can't touch that. There is also a droning noise that Oddessy owners are complaining about that cannot be repaired. We'll see how the next 50K goes, but for 23,800 (list of 30,300) I saved a ton of money over the imports. In addition, I think the ride and handling are best in class. The ride is soft, and the handling is sufficient at low speeds and the van feels very stable on the interstate (probably due to the 17" wheels).

So far, we've had no door or DVD issues and believe me with 4 kids, it's not because of lack of use.

The one area I am unhappy about is the lack of curtain airbags in the back. GM should have figured out how to put them in.

bsrice

Update: After numerous conversations with Saturn 800 #, as a good faith jesture they gave me 1 carpayment check. I went and bought Mich tires all 4 for $800. In the Saturn dealership now getting brakes done and oil change. Having the car aligned Monday by a body shop (that I trust). If these tires start the same thing, I will be back on the line with Saturn and open another ticket. Giving that I am out of warrenty, I will have to start the whole business case over again. I have 2 more years on the damn loan and because it lost so much value in these first 2 I am stuck with it. Saturn won't even buy it back or give me a good trade in amount. Who would want to roll over the balance of a loan from a bad vechicle. 56K on it today 90% highway. Tires shouldn't cup, but guess they do when the cambre is set to -1.3 and is considered inspec.

bill_mcgonigle

Yes, AWD. You know the bearings are going when you start to hear first a hum, then a growl, then a grind from one of the wheels. By now we know to get them done at the growl, as it's a potential safety issue (however remote).

I need to look more into this camber issue. If they really were mis-aligning the wheels to cover up a design flaw this would explain all the tire problems and, now I'm wondering, perhaps the bearing wear problems. If the small sample of owners here is anything like the ownership population at large, that's a large class of customers buying lots of tires. Does anybody have a cite on what they did, like a TSB or something?

FWIW, Pontiac still hasn't responded to my complaint; time to send a certified letter, I suppose. Like others I'd rather just be rid of it, but at less than 1/3 of its value 2.5 years in I'm gonna have to live with it and hope for a meteor strike. :sick:

genmtrfan

You may be right about the wheels and allignment. We had the same problem with tires. They were shot at 16K. Funny thing is, I replaced them with Yokohama's and now have 35K on them with no problem. Goodyear Integrities are not a very good tire, but still there are many vehicles with them that don't cup.

We're at 50K and had no wheel bearing problems, knock on wood. But, we don't have AWD. Is yours an '05 or '06? Chevy changed the wheels to a 6-bolt pattern in '06. Wonder if that helped? If you ready the reviews, people that bought '07's and '08's are generally happier with the vans. They came with the bigger engine and didn't have many of the issues that the earlier models did.

xs11e

I have really bad static on AM stations on my 2005 Buick Terraza, FM and CD and XM seem to be OK. Unfortunately, I almost always listen to AM radio because they broadcast the Arizona Diamondback games!

Anyone have a similar problem or know how to fix it?

Is it possible that GM left out all the filters so people would subscribe to XM radio? ;-)

markdel

My AM reception is very poor, and has been from day one. I just don't use AM so did not complain/demand repair as it would have been a 100+ mile drive for the warrenty service.

lopez2

hello,new here,mi wife relay is drivingme crazy,abs and traction control ligths on,now check engine ligth on,and gas gauge are going crazy,go full go empty,did someone had that problem before,please advice thanks

xs11e

Sell the piece of junk, mine turns out to have a bad battery, warped brake rotors, The Stability warning comes on, dealer can't find out why, Transmission Oil Hot warning comes on, dealer can't find out why.

I've had this thing less than a month and it's got to be the worst car I've EVER owned.

My problem is that I spent money I really can't afford to get a van that could carry my mobility scooter and I'm now stuck with a vehicle I can't drive anywhere because of the transmission problem. I'm not able to walk much, I need the van to visit my sister and the drive takes me through too many places with no cell phone coverage so I'm afraid to go.

I'll sell it but I'll probably lose a bunch of money doing so....

Sorry for the whine but... you asked!

alastan

I had a similar problem with my 05 Terraza. After a couple repairs at the shop, they figured out solution that has stopped the problem for me. On mine, they sanded the gold colored plate where the sliding door's contact sensors touch. That has corrected the problem with my van.

dantana01

I've owned mine for 7 months now, bought it used, loved the looks and all the bells and whistles were there for a decent price. Luckily I had a few months left on the factory warranty because I immediately had to fix a few minor problems, fog lamp kept going out, door trim kept falling out. Then the ABS/Stability Control/Traction Control lights kept saying needs service. First they said it was one wheel needed some lubricant on the socket, light went out for about a day, came back on, this time it was a different code, they did a front wheel alignment, then the next day the lights came back on again, this time they had to order a new module, took a week and replaced it, so far so good. Now the fuel tank sending unit is saying the tank is empty when I fill up, it begins working normally again once the tank goes down a couple gallons but the low fuel light and bells keep going off while driving. Also, the door trim is falling out again as well. I think I'm one of the lucky ones when I read some of the other complaints, but still a 3 year old car should not be having these problems and I seriously worry about future reliability, especially since GM has discontinued these. I think I'm going to eat the cost and buy a foreign van.

bill_mcgonigle

FWIW, we wound up deciding the best course of action for us was to buy a 3rd-party extended warranty. We vetted the organization with our regular mechanic and it's going to cost us about $1200 per year, based on our mileage (a bit higher than average). My feeling is that we'll need more than $3600 worth of repairs over that period of time, since these vehicles are such turkeys. Due to the rapid depreciation on these (our 48 month new-car loan is just barely liquid), to trade in for a used Sienna of the same vintage would have cost us almost $14,000 difference, and that was hard to swallow. After the warranty period is up our kids will be old enough to go get a Pilot or something like that.

dantana01

I might end up trading in for a Kia Sedona, luckily they depreciate fairly quick too, but I think with their longer 5 yr 60,000K warranty and somewhat better track record I might end up better off. The Kia with the 3.8 250hp motor is pretty fast too, something the Relay isn't. Although I might have to give up a little MPG. Thing I like about these GM vans is that they have so much standard equipment standard, too bad they just dropped the ball on quality.

duraflex

Just purchased a 2008 Chevy Uplander LS and those 3rd row headrests are bothersome.
Does anyone have a way to lower or remove them?

There are slots on the back rests but I cannot figure out any way to adjust them.

crkeehn

The rear seat headrests are not adjustable. The slots built into the backrest are to enable the headrest to fold back against the second row seats when the third row backrest is folded down.

duraflex

Thanks for that info on the third row seats. They are as hard as rocks.

crkeehn

I never get to sit back there. Most of the time our third row seats are folded down due to all the stuff we are carrying.

Of course since I'm generally driving, I don't get to ride back there anyways.

spike99

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I've got a newly purchased 2009 Montana Ext SV6 van. Was told same vehicle as the 2009 Uplander Van - except minor different cosmetics. I'm in the midst of buying / installing a Brake Controller - to power the electric brakes on my 6x10 utility trailer. Will soon buy either Primus or Husky brand of brake controller.

For this van and its brake peddle switch or BCM output brake wire, what wire do I "tap" into? I get the feeling the +3V / +12V current on the Brake Controller input lead might get get very confused with its +3V wire. Thus, I wonder if there's a different "input" wire (that has either 0V or +12V off/on state) should be used instead.

Within historical posts, I remember reading the "white wire" above the brake peddle switch (bundled with lots of other wires) should be used. But that was on an '06 Uplander van. Not too sure if it applies to '07 - '09 models as well.

Thanks for your "what wire to tap into?" feedback.

.

dilton_dalton

On your vehicle, the rear knuckle bushing holds the top of the rear wheel in place. It is actually a ball joint with a bolt that goes all the way through it. It prevents the wheel from moving forward or backward when you brake and prevents the wheel from falling over when you turn a corner. The problem with the design is that there are two plastic seals that are intended to keep the joint lubrication inside and to keep water, salt and dirt outside. After a while, wear and corrosion will cause the bushing to fail and the wheel will be free to move about. This causes "interesting" steering on the highway and unusual tire wear. In its wisdom, GM has decided that the bushing should not be replaceable. You have to purchase the entire rear knuckle (rear bearing and brake system attach to it) at an inflated price.
I am the owner of a small manufacturing firm that makes replacement bushings for your vehicle and a number of others. They cost $165 for a set of two. These are not the same design as the original and should last many years and many miles longer. Check out our web site at www.waltonmfg.com. It is a bit out of date as presently it only deals with our product for Cadillac automobiles, but we recently began to make a similar product for a number of all wheel drive GM vehicles.

spike99

Update:

Here's some feedback from Primus Tech Support Prime (in case you were wondering about a solution to my question).

--------

Thank you for contacting Technical Support. In response to your email, the Primus brake control unit will ignore the 3 volts as it operates at roughly 8 volts from stop light activation. The control units red wire will wire to the BCM for this vehicle and the correct wire should be a "white wire" - located on BCM pin 30. If you need further assistance, feel free to write back or contact us at (888) 785-5832.


Paul O.
Cequent Performance Products, Electrical Division
Technical Service Representative
(888) 785-5832

natenbeckie

I see after years of being away from this forum that everyone is still having loads of problems with these vehicles. Here are a few solutions to some of your problems that totally resolved the issues for me on my 05' SV6:

Cupping rear tires even when rotated properly:

Replace the stock rear shocks! The stock rear shocks are complete garbage. I noticed how bouncy the rear was with the stock shocks after driving behind it. Even the smallest bump in the road the rear would bounce 3-4 times then settle. On bigger bumps the rear wheels would skip, causing the cupping. I replaced the rear shocks (I have the load levelers too) with Monroe replacement load leveling shocks for $70 for the pair and it fixed the problem and helped the handling immensely. It also made it feel much more stable on straight roads.

Warped brake rotors:

Replace the stock rotors and pads with GOOD aftermarket rotors and pads (not cheap Ebay rotors and NOT Delco or GM replacements). The TSB about the dust shields is one of the lamest "fixes" I have ever seen. It was definitely poor rotor quality. I replaced mine at 35,000 miles with Centric rotors and Akebono pads and I have NO warpage after 33,000 miles. I did not have the work mentioned in the TSB for the dust shields done.

I also had the stock front sway bar links go bad on both sides. I replaced them with the much thicker and heavier Napa units and wow, what a difference. Between the rear shocks and the front links, the van handles 100 times better than the day I drove it off the lot. No more massive oversteer; it handles very well for its size and stance. The fact that the links helped the handling tells me the stock links were too thin and they were flexing under pressure, and the ball joint on the stock links are way too small for the load the vehicle puts on them causing them to fail.

Now I have a bad steering rack (3/4" play in the steering wheel). Probably started after the accident when the ABS pump failed, locked up the wheels and it went over an 8" curb destroying the front suspension at 12,000 miles. I also have to replace the front wheel bearings again (dealers replaced them twice already when it had a warranty). I am NOT hard on this vehicle. I may drive spirited, but I do not drive it hard. If anything I drive my IS300 extremely hard and it's still running strong at 107,000 miles with NO mechanical issues. I mean I have 60,000 miles on the front brake pads!

Also, for those getting the hot trans fluid warning, I have a fix that might work.

I noticed that after 15,000 miles my trans fluid was burnt to a crisp. Then my final drive died at 20,000 which was covered by warranty. They fixed that and filled it with new fluid. At 35,000 I noticed the fluid was cooked again. At 36,000 I replaced the trans fluid with the new Dexron VI fluid (05's came with Dexron III) and added a Tru-cool transmission cooler. Now after 30,000 miles it is just barely getting that burnt smell. I will be flushing it again. I talked to the 4T65E experts and they say there is something wrong with my trans to be generating that much heat. I beg to differ. I think the trans is way under built for this vehicle and the shifts are far to sloppy. This isn't a 3400 lb Grand Prix; this is a 4300 lb behemoth.

Anyway, I hope some of these tips help some of you. This thing has been a nightmare since the day I bought it and continues to be to this day. Every month it's something new with it. But I am stuck with it so I am slowly fixing it properly with non-OE parts that work much better than stock.

bill_mcgonigle

I can confirm about the rotors - we must have had ours in 6 times for rotor problems when it was under warranty. Since putting in good rotors there have been no problems at all (with that).

We had problems with the vehicle always going dead - I figured out that the cheap sheet-steel battery terminals were the problem. I replaced them with "premium" ($4) battery terminals (made with bronze and lead, apparently) from AutoZone and all of the battery charging problems have gone away. This might be blamed on the State of California which is afraid of pregnant women chewing on battery terminals, but, hey, other vehicles manage to get it right.

We just got hit on inspection for bald-on-the-inside tires (we get 2 years max out of a set of highest-quality silica tires, 1 year out of normal ones). I'll get the shocks replaced, thanks for the tips, Nate!

spike99

.

My wife bought an '09 Montana SV6 last March 30-2009. Since then, I've used/learned the below improvements. Items that could possibly be applied to your '05 Montana SV6 van as well.

The "factory" rear shocks seem to be "OK" on our new van. They give an ok ride and when they wear out, we'll be replacing within non-GM shocks as well. Probably go with a manual ride adjustment Rancho shock. re: http://www.gorancho.com/products/shocks.php

For our van "without" factory towing package, I installed Timbrens SES units. If wondering, Timbrens are like air bags without pressurized air inside them. They replace the factory bump stops (inside the rear coil springs) and are great for van's containing more then 2 people, rear cargo and/or towing a trailer. Timbren SES units is an excellent rear suspesnion upgrade in my wife's van. Especially since "factory" air shocks / air compressor systems are known for expensive repair problems as well. To me, Timbrens SES units are a great "install it and leave it" suspension upgrade. Wish they were minimum "factory build" on many different brands of vehicles. You may want to install Timbren SES units on the rear of your van as well. For more details on Timbren SES units, surf: http://www.anythingtruck.com/susp_timbren.html
Note: Do shop around because prices for exact same product does vary...

It's true the BEFORE 2007 Montan vans are known for `warped` front brake rotor problems. Thus, explaining why GM started using much larger (better) front brake system in their 2007+ vehicle builds. re: Larger disc and 6 bolt system instead of 5 bolts. On my wife's '09 Montana van, its brakes are great (actually, they are awesome). They stop the vehicle much faster then our other GM vehicle. Probably because of the larger / better front bake system.

The 4T65E does have its weak design. For more details,surf details within: http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com/4T65E_Transmission_Info.html

My local transmission specialist told me that GM factory transmissions "love to run hot". He told me that GM vans (Montana, Uplander, Venture, Safari/Astro) "over stress" (which means heat spikes) when struggling against strong head winds and up hills. Especially while also loaded down with more then 2 people. He told me to install an LDP Transmission cooler (for 3,500 lbs or 5,000 lbs for towing/hauling) in my vans and it will keep their transmission oil much cooler. If wondering, I installed LPD design ATF coolers in both my vans (previous Safari and current '09 Montana) and they both run great. Don't think I'll debate your "doesn't run too hot" statement. To me, if the ATF oil is burnt, then its ATF must be enduring some heat "spikes". As a suggestion, install LPD design cooler (like: http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_- - - - - - - Code=OC-1678&Category_Code=hayden-transaver&Product_Count=2 ) in your van and it will keep your van's ATF much cooler. As he says, "cool ATF = less risk of problems". And in winter time for below freezing conditions, simply wrap the LPD cooler with a warm covering. Thus, eliminating "wind chill" exposure. Thus, helping keep its ATF above freezing - during cold winter months.

The battery in my wife's 09 Montana van had to be replaced as well. One of its cells was shot and it kept going dead after sitting 3+ days. After battery replacement, our van has been starting / running great. Thus, I would point the "problem pointer finger" at Delco battery maker - not at the factory line that makes / assembles the GM mini-van.

To me, the new 3.9L VVT engine in my wife's '09 van is awesome. It's got lots of "available juice" under its hood. When needed, this new technology engine can quickly pull the van around slower moving traffic, and/or can easily pull 2,000+ lbs trailer without over stressing itself (and its transmission ATF). And surprising, this larger engine gets great MPGs on the smooth and consistant speed hiway as well. This larger engine loves the gas in the "stop / go" city traffic but on a steady speed hiway, I'm impressed with its good MPGs. From take off and pulling power perspective, the 3.9L VVT easily "blows the doors off" our other GM vehicle - which has a 2003 3.4L engine. If hauling / towing or loaded down with more then 2 people needs, get its 3.9L VVT engine. Having more "available power" under the gas peddle is worth it.

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IMO, the 3rd brake light allows water around its lens. I installed clear silicone around my van's 3rd brake light. For keeping water out of this area, this trick works great.

IMO, its factory "low beam" H11 lights are too dim. A few months ago, I installed H9 light bulbs in the "low beam" sockets. Had to modify its PVC H11 plug (3 minutes for each modification) to make them the H9s bulbs. But once modified / installed, the H9 bulbs are much brighter then factory H11 bulbs. And best of all, H9 bulbs are fraction of the purchase price compared to "high power / ultra bright" H11 bulbs. If you find your van's factory H11 bulbs are too dim, do investigate "making" the H9 bulbs fit instead. Worked great for my wife's '09 van.

To me, the Montana model (even my wife's 09 SV6 EWB 1SB model) van is "entry level". GM advertises their van as expensive $32,000 vehicle but to me, these van's don't come close to the quality of other mini-van makers. Especially when compared to other $28,000 - $32,000 selling mini-vans. Luckily, my wife got her '09 Montana van at 1/2 of suggested selling price. If we had to pay $32K for a van, I'd pick a non-GM van. Sorry.... But to me, the other mini-vans are built better, have more features and are more reliable. And, have better ride comfort. For a lower cost "entry level" van, the "on sale" SV6 van "will fit our needs". Again, this is IMO. Luckily, my wife's van was at a final "out the door" price we couldn't walk away from....

Hope this feedback helps others as well...

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spike99

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natenbeckie

I thought more about your "after 15,000 miles my trans fluid was burnt to a crisp" statement. As a suggestion, do investigate the following troubleshooting ideas:

A - Follow the van's current ATF fluid cooling lines and ensure one of them isn't crushed or kinked. And, their piping flow seems to be smooth. Less plumbing elbows, the better. And if one needs elbows around sharp corners, then ensure its a "smooth turn" more then 3" bend elbow as well. And if necessary, replace the factory steel lines (that seem to have too many little bends) with new rubber lines - lines rated for ATF. And, route the new rubber lines in better flow locations. When it comes to fluid flow, less resistance around corners the better. Using replacement piping with larger size "inside" ID is good thing as well.

B - Ensure your mechanic installed your existing LPD aux cooler properly. For my wife's 09 van, I took the ATF line out of the "top" of the main rain and re-routed it into the newly installed 5,000 lbs aux cooler. From ATF aux cooler back to the transmission. Thus, ensuring flow is also in the "main rad" as well.

For a few pictures, surf:
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/Spike99-Pictures/Montana%20Van/Main-RadT- - - - - - ophose-4.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/Spike99-Pictures/Montana%20Van/AuxTransC- - - - - - ooler-Lookingdowngrill.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/Spike99-Pictures/Montana%20Van/AuxTransC- - - - - - ooler-UpperSupport-2.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/Spike99-Pictures/Montana%20Van/AuxTransC- - - - - - ooler-UpperSupport-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/Spike99-Pictures/Montana%20Van/Main-RadT- - - - - - ophose-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/Spike99-Pictures/Montana%20Van/Hosesinfr- - - - - - ontgrillarea-4.jpg

While confirming how to install an aux cooler in my wife's van, I read about a shop that put the transmission's line into the ATF aux cooler rad and back out (and completely bi-passed the van's main rad). OUCH!!!! Definately the wrong install method. For your van's ATF aux cooler install, do ensure its installed properly as well. re: Using both main rad "along with" optional ATF aux cooler rad. For proper cooling, both RADs are needed.

C - Install the proper sized LPD aux cooler. To me, the sizing of ATF aux cooler must be for an attached 3,500 lbs trailer (as minimum). If one lives in hilly region, hotter climate, does lots of stop/go traffic and/or often loaded with more weight of 2 people, then use ATF aux cooler sized for attached 5,000 lbs trailer. For example: http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_- - - - - - Code=OC-1678&Category_Code=hayden-transaver&Product_Count=2

D - Do ensure the ATF "flow rate" is ok as well. This can be done by pulling off the transmission rubber lines and sticking both rubber ends into a clean 1 gallon container. Have someone else start the engine, let idle and put into "D" gear, and keep the other foot firmly on its brake pedal (along with emergency brake on). While in "D" gear and idling, ATF oil should spray out of "one" re-routed rubber lines. I cannot remember the exact flow rate but it should be around "minium" 1 gallon per minute. Or was the 3 gallons per minute (????). If your van's oil line don't flow this fast, its internal ATF pump is shot (and needs to be replaced). For exact flow rate (for your van), do "double check" with your local GM mechanic. They have minimum ATF flow rate specs in their Montana Service Manuals.

Hope these troubleshooting ideas help your van....

.

uplanderguy

Godd tips, thank you very much.

About the rotors...do you feel the need to replace all four? My issues always seem to be with the front pulsating. Can you put aftermarket (better) rotors up front and leave the GM OEM ones in the back?

Thanks,
Bill

bill_mcgonigle

I believe we had the same problem, replacing the fronts with non-cheap rotors stopped the pulsing problem. I think due to mileage we've had them all replaced by now (at a non-GM shop) and haven't had a recurrence.

gostraight

i am an alignment technician for cheverlot. although your vehicle may be within the manufactures specifications, the -1.1 is not correct as your tires have too much negitive camber. take it to someone and tell them to add .4 positive camber. depinding on each individual wheel, the addition of positive camber should be different. put uniroyal tiger paw tire on. they have a stiffer side wall than goodyear.

natenbeckie

I am my mechanic, and yes, the aux cooler is installed after the stock cooler (top of rad to aux). It's a Trucool LPD 4452 rated for a GVW of 14,500 lbs. It is important to keep the stock cooler in line to act as both a pre-cooler in the summer as well as in the winter it warms the fluid up quicker and keeps the fluid from operating at low temps full time.

The lines are not kinked. I checked the line flow and its fine. This isn't the first one I have seen like this and my buddy's 07' Impala SS was the same way with the 4T65E-HD. This is another case of GM design and engineering being flawed.

In fact, I went over the 30,000 mile fluid service interval on my IS300 (45,000) and I just did a flush on it this past weekend. The fluid was still red. Not the bright translucent red Toyota T-IV is out of the can but it was without a doubt still red. My SV6 on the other hand is showing more hues of brown than red at this point after roughly 32,000 on the fluid with the LPD on it (I installed it at the same time I did the flush).

The 3.9 was a much better engine for this van all-around. I wish I had at least waited for it. Better yet, I wish I would have kept my Mazda MPV.

natenbeckie

Yes, replace all 4. I found the rear rotors had "hot" spots on them, and some spots were higher than others (less worn), which means the rotor material was not consistent all the way around.

If you look, you will notice the rear pads wear equally as fast as the front, if not faster. I don't know how they have the brake proportioning set up on this thing, but it's heavy on the rear. This is the 2nd set of pads that were put on at the same time as the fronts (first set were the original pads) that have worn as much on the rear as the front. I thought maybe the rear calipers were sticking but they aren't. It's just how it is.