Subaru XT Turbo Forester

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Comments

  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    My .02 on the CC issue: My '92 Nissan Sentra (now my son's car with 234K miles) has a "master" switch to turn the CC on. It is then set in the normal fashion with the buttons on the steering wheel. This system shuts off every time the ignition is turned off. On our 2000 Odyssey, the master switch would remain on until manually turned off. Having used both for so long, I definitely prefer the Nissan (and Subaru) system, where CC has to be turned on every time the car is started. I am very concientious about such things, but I prefer a system that requires one extra intentional action on my part to engage the CC system.

    I do wish that our '01 Forester and '03 Outback had their "master" switches in a more convenient location, as well as indicator lights to confirm when the CC system is engaged.

    Len
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    IMO, it's perfect the way it is. I don't consider it that much of an inconvenience to lift my arm up towards the dash and re-engage the button. :-)

    -Dennis
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    If, after using the cruise control, I for some reason didn't want it to already be enabled upon next starting the engine, I could always conscientiously turn the master switch off.

    Seems to me that most logical approach would be to assume the driver will want the cruise control system to be in the same mode next time (either on or off) as he left it last time. Just like the radio: If I like music in the car and the radio was playing the last time I turned the engine off, why should the radio require me to turn it on again next time?

    You don't have to reset all of the heater/AC controls each time you start up.

    I simply can't see why a properly-designed cruise control should be any different. Cars (and their controls) should work with us - not against us.
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Ford/LM cruise controls, at least in the ones I've driven require re-engagement every time the car is turned off.

    My Sable would also reset the radio volume to a preset level - generally to prevent the next driver from getting their ear drums ruptured - especially if I was the last driver :<)

    I think I'll cast my vote with the "Resets when the car is turned off" folks. Ford's of course was all controlled right on the steering wheel, not with a separate stalk or lever, so its really very easy to re-engage. For a system that has so much control over the car,a system, that requires 2 commands to engage the first time would lower the chance of inadvertent engagement.

    I'll also 2nd the motion to make the Forester's cruise friendlier to engage - its not in the most ergonomically friendly spot, IMO. I don't mind having that fog lamps and mirror/windshield defrost being slightly less accessible.

    Larry
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Can't please everyone I guess. I often make a conscious effort to turn off my Outback radio when I park at home since it's not unusual for me to back it out ten feet so I can play with my tablesaw.

    Hearing the power antenna go up and down in such a short time period bugs me since I figure I'm needlessly wearing out the motor. This isn't a bother in the Quest since it's antenna is fixed. Of course, usually I just put the OB in neutral and push it back so I don't needlessly wear out the other motor :-)

    I guess I prefer that stuff stay off unless I want it to come on. Is this typical Subaru OCD behavior?

    Steve, Host
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Perhaps the logic might be that since the CC is intended for use on highways and open roads, many people will drive through their neighborhoods to get to those types of roads, at which time they would then make a concious decision to turn the CC system on. Less chance of inadvertent engagement that way.

    If your radio is left on, it will begin playing as soon as you turn the key ON. The CC system in the Honda would not engage the CC as soon as you turn the key, but would have to be engaged by the driver when he decided to do so. I guess there was no safety concern that the radio would cause the vehicle to accelerate unexpectedly without a concious decision by the driver to do so. If there was such a risk, there would probably be a master switch for the radio as well. And, I bet that it would have to be turned on each time you started the car. Again, just my opinion.

    Len
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Interesting behavior, if not OCD, Steve. :-)

    Most recent Ford products I've driven (Focus, Taurus, Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car) reset the radio volume to a preset level. Nice feature; it can be disconcerting though not so much so as speed-sensitive volume control on some GM products I've driven (Chevy Silverado, Buick Regal, Olds Alero).

    Most if not all VW/Audi products of the 1980s and well into the 90s had radios that continued to play even when the car was turned off and the key out of the ignition. Many batteries died from those readios being left on; I was fortunate enough never to have done that in my VW.

    I find the cruise control discussion interesting only in that there are people who still have enough space to actually use their cruise control. In the Northeast Corridor I find there's so much highway volume, even at night, that there's nowhere I can engage it safely for any length of time! Only when I get north of Boston, south of Richmond, and west of Harrisburg do I find enough open road to use it.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Car related:

    VTD = variable torque distribution
    OEM = original equipment manufacturer
    ECU = engine/electrical control unit
    OBW = Outback Wagon
    OBS = Outback Sport
    VDC = Vehicle Dynamics Control
    ESP = electronic stability program (same as VDC)
    VSC = vehicle stability control (same as VDC)
    STi = Subaru Tecnica International
    SPT = Subaru Performance Tuning
    CC = Cruise Control
    PW = Power Windows
    PL = Power Locks
    PS = Power Steering
    PM = Power mirrors, or time of day
    HID = High intensity discharge lights
    CEL = check engine light
    MIL = malfunction indicator light
    NAV = navigation system
    GPS = global positioning system

    General:

    BTW = by the way
    FWIW = for what it's worth
    BRB = be right back (for chat interruptions)
    LOL = laugh out loud
    ROTLMAO = roll on the floor laughing my <censored> off
    TTFN = ta ta for now
    :-) = emoticon, smiley

    There are hundreds more but those are the common ones I could think of. Feel free to share others, folks.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    You don't have to reset all of the heater/AC controls each time you start up.

    I don't have to, but I do. :-) Even if I stop for a 2 minute potty break, I turn off the radio, a/c, headlights, etc.

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The 04 WRX has that arrangement you suggested, Bob...when you activate the master button, "CRUISE" appears in green on the instruments. When you actually set it, the word "SET" appears as well.

    I wasn't aware of that, as I haven't driven any '04 Subies. I wonder if other '04 Subies are that way too? I would assume all '04 Imprezas are. In any case, that's good news.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    With all this talk about cruise control lately, I thought I'd add that Honda's arrangement seems quite logical: the master cruise does not reset when you turn the car off. Once you turn it on, it's on until YOU switch it off.

    Yep that's the way it should be. You do have to reset the actual speed once you re-start, but that's fine.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I smell product liability lawyers. In this sue-happy country, someone would accidentally bump the coast button and then blame Subaru for the impending accident.

    So they make you go out of your way and press two buttons, at different location, no less! :o)

    -juice
  • deadeye5deadeye5 Member Posts: 93
    Your "Decoding" will be a great help. Now I don't have to mutter "What the H-- are they talking about".....

                                 Deadeye
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I smell product liability lawyers. In this sue-happy country, someone would accidentally bump the coast button and then blame Subaru for the impending accident.

    So they make you go out of your way and press two buttons, at different location, no less! :o)


    It doesn't bother Toyota and a few others; shouldn't bother Subaru.

    Bob
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    So they make you go out of your way and press two buttons, at different location, no less! :o)

    Can you see where this is going? Gosh, if two buttons are safer than one, then three must be even better! Next thing you know, we'll have to push four or five buttons (simultaneously) just to set the cruise control, in order to be absolutely, positively certain that no one might accidentally engage it.

    Ain't progress grand?
  • mikef11mikef11 Member Posts: 74
    I don't think this is a lawyer driven decision, it is a marketing choice. Some prefer the Subaru style, some prefer the other style. You can't please all the people all the time.

    MikeF
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I don't think this is a lawyer driven decision, it is a marketing choice.

    Has anyone heard of anyone ever actually getting polled by Subaru product planners to discover which cruise control alternative a majority of buyers might prefer?

    I'd be more inclined to lay the credit/blame for this at the feet of those same brilliant product planners who, in their infinite wisdom, decided that Canadian XT buyers can get leather and/or sunroof with the 5-speed, whereas we Americans (their most profitable market) cannot...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, why do you think the US is the most profitable market? Maybe it's because we put up with decontented vehicles :-)

    Block heaters, bun warmers, higher capacity batteries, etc. are all typical standard features on Canadian vehicles that cost extra down south. And often the MSRP on those same models is cheaper in Canada (adjusting for currency differences).

    Maybe one day NAFTA will make it easier to import a Canadian car down here without losing the factory warranty.

    Steve, Host
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Um no offense Balistic, but here on edmunds, we were polled about the new forester, and 8 of the improvements were actually attributed to this group, right here. So I'm not sure if your arguement holds water...

    -mike
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    You can't please all the people all the time.

    In this instance, pleasing all the people would be easy: Instead of a push-on-push-off master button that always defaults to off (whether that's what owners want or not), just provide a 2-direction toggle. Toggle it up, and you get the mode Subaru now provides, where the cruise turns off at next shutdown until you toggle up again. Toggle it down, and the cruise remains enabled until the next time the switch is toggled up. Voila.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    here on edmunds, we were polled about the new forester, and 8 of the improvements were actually attributed to this group, right here.

    I was aware of that, and I wasn't suggesting that Subaru never polls its owners. Did the behavior of the cruise control result from that sort of actual market research? I'm skeptical.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is a safety thing. If it remember from start to start, then you might not know what it was set at, flip the "on" button and have the car accelerate to X speed that you set last week!

    -mike
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think you missed the part where the master switch could be on, but you still have to set the speed.

    I think most manufacturers poll the suppliers to see what they can supply cheapest. A switch on the dash is probably cheaper than a combo one on a stalk or some always on circuit if the toggle is flipped.

    Fun to speculate anyway.

    Steve, Host
  • ozman62ozman62 Member Posts: 229
    Bob, yes the 'regular' Impreza has these lights. Presumably, it will be soon forthcoming on all models. I feel that it is nice to have, I guess, but sort of redundant. I mean, I can tell if I have the cruise is engaged, my foot isn't on the throttle....
       IMO, I have no problem with the current car off/ cruise off arrangement. Maybe I would feel differently if I drove more highway miles where I was using the cruise regularly, but also making a lot of stops. Seems like an unlikely scenario, though. For now, I'll glance down momentarily to engage the cruise switch ;-)
        Regards, Owen
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Is it that of a PITA to work the CC?
    I've only used it once, and it does not appear that one has to fidget with it every 5 mins whilst cruising the highway.
    Turn the CC on, accelerate to speed, and set. Seems simple as ABC. :)

    -Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    CC I use it all the time, and I really like the "light" on my Trooper v. no light on my SVX for engagement. Both have "on" lights.

    CC has saved me from many a tickets. I set it at 9-11mph over the limit and then I save gas and tickets.

    -mike
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Member Posts: 158
    Thanks juice!

    Here's one I haven't figured out yet.

    YMMV

    Thanks,
    -Ian
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Your mileage may vary.

    Steve, Host
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Paisan, no one has suggested that the cruise control should remember the last speed it was set to maintain, merely that if it was turned on last time, that it shouldn't have to be switched on again before it can again be re-set to whatever new speed you desire. If it's a legitimate safety issue (which I seriously doubt), then why do so many other contemporary carmakers configure their cruise controls to operate more conveniently?

    Bob, it's not a question as to whether it's a PITA (although I obviously think it is) - the question is whether the design of an automotive control that's likely to be used at highway speeds ought to be deliberately inconvenient, requiring one to look away from the road or grope on the lower surface of the instrument panel to enable the control. IMO, that's not smart or helpful design, it's obtuse. If the control defaulted to the on-or-off state last used, it would make far more sense.
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined such an lengthy discussion on cruise control buttons in the XT forum. Subaru owners really get into any and all discusssion topics with passion. WOW!!
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    I agree that the CC master switch is inconveniently located on our Subarus. Our Odyssey had a BIG switch on the dash. You couldn't miss it. Then again, Honda really seemed to know how to make everything convenient in that vehicle. Even the dome light switch; it was located on the center of the dash, apparently to allow the passenger to turn on the interior lights to deal with the family in back. Good idea, IMHO, and geared toward the intended market for that vehicle.

    Len
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    "You can't please all the people all the time."
    So true, MikeF.

    Since my WRX wagon was recently stolen, I've been putting suggestions on the Subaru Suggestions board about door locks.

    While driving my wife's 99 OB, I noticed that it would be really difficult for someone to pull the window back and use an object to hit the door unlock button (like was done to my car). The window buttons and door lock is flat against the door.

    FHI and Subaru probably changed this design to satisfy the customers. I recall complaining about the design a few years ago. I shot myself in the foot. :-)

    Carlos - We love beating a dead horse here. :-D

    -Dennis
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    leo i have an odyssey and have problems with the location of 3 items.

    first the power door button is tucked on the dash on the left side of the steering wheel which makes it very inconvient for the passenger to help out with this basic feature. the ford windstar had this right by putting it where the forester upper front light switches are thus allowing the front row access to the power doors.

    the second is one of those what were they thinking. the forester has the heated seats switch right where it should be, just behind the shifter which also allows me to preheat my wifes seat when i fetch the car. the odyssey is on the door down by where your feet are. so in order to turn on the drivers it creates a very unsafe lean way down and long reach.

    the third is the location of the power mirror switch. its on the dash, left side of wheel. geez cant they figure out how great it is to just have it above the window switches? ( my wife are i are about 14 inches diff in height, what i wouldnt give for seat/mirror memory )

    also what does the odyssey have about against lighting all of the switches so i can see them. geez you would think they would do the windows ones at least. once again the lowly windstar had this again.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    <<While driving my wife's 99 OB, I noticed that it would be really difficult for someone to pull the window back and use an object to hit the door unlock button (like was done to my car). The window buttons and door lock is flat against the door.>>

    I like the PL switch placement of the older gen Legacy, but not the PW switches. Ya, they should re-locate the PL switch flush against the door but leave the PW switches where they are now.

    -Dave
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It is a pretty entertaining thread. To some of us anyway, lol.

    I use my cruise around town all the time and often wish it'd kick in around 25 mph. Sometimes I think a hand throttle would be a fun addition to the stalk.

    Note that I don't live East of the Mississippi, so I do get lots of chances to cruise in town.

    Steve, Host
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined such an lengthy discussion on cruise control buttons in the XT forum.

    This just proves that the XT is such a great vehicle that only picayune details are left to discuss!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    JB: pretty soon, to set cruise, you'll have to simulateously lift your left foot, press the dash button with your left hand, and the cruise engage with the right. It's like Twister on Wheels. LOL

    To their credit, Subaru did indeed add 8 things that the Subaru Crew specifically asked for, like mike mentioned. The 2003 model actually added about 10-12 features overall.

    But they also deleted 3, the mud flaps, cargo cover, and something else, maybe the bumper guard? I forget exactly.

    For the record, the cruise switch is a very minor annoyance. I think if they just moved the "On" switch to the same location, noone would have mentioned it. So do it, it will probably actually cost less to manufacture one mechanism instead of two.

    Save money and make people happy.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    ...a very minor annoyance. I think if they just moved the "On" switch to the same location, noone would have mentioned it

    In the words of the great Ronald Reagan, "there you go again" - underestimating me. No detail is too minor for me to critique.
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Our Odyssey was the LX model, so we didn't get to experience the power sliding doors and heated seats. Which is a good thing, since we had several problems with the manual sliding doors! Anyway, my wife decided she wanted the safety and security of all wheel drive, and she liked my Forester, so she traded the Odyssey in on an Outback.

    Len
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    In the words of the great Ronald Reagan, "there you go again" - underestimating me. No detail is too minor for me to critique.

    Bob <ROTFLMAO>
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't ever let us down in that regard, JB. ;-)

    You're now officially eligible to join the OCD club.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    leo it was like the put the buttons in good places up to the LX model, then everything else was ahhhh like where can we put this button.

    we still have our odyssey ( now my car ) and the xt ( hers )
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Old crotchety duffers?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You must have taken your funny pills today. ;)

    Bob
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    while they dont make a car go anywhewre faster or more safely, the splash guards, the bumper cover and the cargo tray make a Forester a much more sUv, and less trouble to clean!

    Mark
  • subawoohoosubawoohoo Member Posts: 5
    I agree that the cc operation is a bit involved, but I'm dealing with it.

    After living with this car 10 days or so, I'm still loving it, but I've definitely started to see the Subaru idiosyncracies. None of them are dealbreakers -they just take some getting used to:

    1.The lock rocker switches on the doors are backwards, dammit. :)

    2. Ditto for the window switches.

    3. Not being able to pick the vent combination I want during "auto" climate operation is just wrong.

    4. And, by far the most egregious, glaring, annoying problem to me -- no fast forward or reverse on the CD player. That one just plain bugs me.

    Actually, I'm pretty glad that that's all I've found to complain about. (the CD thing really does get my goat,though).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Legacy is oriented the other way. Oddly, I think the Forester's are right, and the Legacy's are backwards.

    Swap the stereo, it's cake to remove. Get an MP3 or something. I'll take your old one off your hands, and figure out a way to install it in my Miata. All I need is a harness, me thinks.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    3. Not being able to pick the vent combination I want during "auto" climate operation is just wrong.

    Which reminds me: Now that winter weather has arrived, I'm now using the heater (not the infernal automatic climate control, just the manual settings).

    1. How do you get heated air to the feet and NO heated air from any of the dash vents? When I set the mode dial to the "foot" symbol, I get heated air at my feet BUT I also get heated air from the defroster vents (including the far-left and far-right diagonal dashtop vents aimed at the door glass). This winds up putting too much warm air up at head level. I have narcolepsy (sleep disorder), and I can't have anything but cool air on my face. No setting I've tried yet comletely prevents any warm air from emerging from the various defroster outlets. Changing to the bilevel symbol just makes matters worse, because then the four midlevel vents blow hot. What I need is a true bilevel setup, where the foot vents blow hot and the dash vents blow cold. Lots of other cars can provide that; isn't there any way to accomplish this with a Forester?

    2. Also when I set the mode dial to the "foot" symbol, I get plenty of hot air blowing directly onto my right (throttle) foot, but my left foot stays cold. What's with that?
  • tahoecharlietahoecharlie Member Posts: 15
    Just signed on to see what was happening after several days and find 6 pages - 80 or so posts) devoted to an item that is "un-fixable". That is, there is nothing that anyone can do to change the operation of the cruse control - so why spend so much time discussing it - just deal with it. Plus everyone seems to have slightly different opinions about how it should work. Personally, I never use it, since 90% of my driving is 2-lane mountain roads.

    I would like to see more posts about items that can be modified or driving experiences or dealer experiences, etc.

    Speaking of which, I don't understand how someone gets 15 mpg as a poster mentioned. There must be a problem with his car. For my first 775 miles I am averaging 23 mpg and, except for 200 miles of fwy getting back to Tahoe, that's all up and down 2-lane mountain driving at 6,500 to 8,900 ft altitude. I spend 90% of the time in 3rd and 4th at 2,500 to 4,000 rpm with a lot of 1st and 2nd shifts occurring at 5,000 rpm. This car is a BLAST to drive!!

    From comments posted, it seems that a lot of people are "babying" the car and not using the design potential of the engine. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but most 4-cyl engines perform best and get their best gas mileage at relatively high rpms as opposed to big v-8s that have sufficient torque at low rpms.

    Now that nighttime temps have fallen into the 30's range up here, I really appreciate the fast warm-up of the heating system. It only takes a couple of short blocks and I have hot air. Much better then the mile or so I used to have to drive to get bearly a whisper of warmth.

    Decided to have a little fun and got a personalized NV plate the other day: "XTC4SKI"

    Tahoe Charlie
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    That was me. This car's mileage swings all over the place but so do my driving conditions - and I do **not** drive with a light foot. The one or two tanks I tried to modify my driving style was an experiment to see how much difference a lighter foot would make. The results were "not much". Experiment only - I've got no intentions of changing a driving style that's served me well for the last 32 years.

    By the same token I finally got to feed it some highway this week and the mileage was back up to 22 - which is as good as it gets for me. But getting 22 mpg driving at 80+ mph isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned.

    As regards to a comment Jack made a while ago regarding "getting a good one or a bad one" - (paraphrasing here) its a comment I happen to agree with from a statistical variation point of view.

    From what I know of working with sensors in general for the last 20 years or so (flow sensors, transducers, temperature sensors, speed sensors - you get the idea) is that any two of the same type don't perform identically. Especially as they're mass produced and lower quality than say laboratory quality.

    That's why there's a tolerance band applied to any measurement a sensor provides. The sensors feed the computer. The computer control impacts the mileage greatly. So while the core of the ECU's are created equal (I don't know if the ECU samples anything directly), the sensors feeding them aren't. IMO, that accounts for a lot of the variation in mileage. Think of it this way - If I have a system where every one of my sensors gives a "dead on" reading - perfect in other words, my system will perform better than one where some of the sensors are reading 20% lower and others 20% higher.
    To some extent that's also true of the mechanical components. Anyone remember when getting an engine "blueprinted" so that everything was at nominal was one of the best ways to maximize performance and frequently economy? Although most people blueprinting an engine aren't necessarily after economy :<)

    Just thinking out loud.

    Larry
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