although it sounds like it was satisfactorily resolved. You can't call a nail in the tire a delivery problem. You might have picked it up 100 yards from your driveway.
I've had 4 punctures in the last 6 months myself; so much housing renovation/revitalization going on in my neighborhood, and contractors aren't always too careful with that sort of thing.
You shouldn't have anymore concerns with the valve - probably a leaking seal or o-ring if it was a valve issue. Go out & enjoy your new ride.
You were wise to replace the plugged tire w/ the spare. A plugged or patched tire voids its speed rating. I never have a tire plugged - always use a patch. However, I would check your air pressure in the spare more frequently over the course of a few weeks. A nail, screw, railroad spike, staple, etc., can be picked up from anywhere.
You brought up some great issues on your new XT. I too notice the smell of Gasoline, have from day one, and will follow up with this on my next Service. About your Tire, first I was told that the Geolanders must be patched, not Plugged, which goes against everything I always thought to be true! If you Purchase the "Added Security Gold" plan, all Road Hazards will be covered. On my Second day with a Leaking Tire, all my Selling Dealer had to say is "were Closed, Tires not covered". Subaru & Yokohama said the same thing, Yokohama workers in India or Pakastan did give me the number of Tire Rack . com to buy a new Tire , it since has been Patched and fixed, actually I made them swap out my Spare, hopefully they fixed the leaking tire, my Selling Dealer is a Daewoo/Mazda/Subaru Dealer with no Certified Subaru Tech's, this should be illegal! Oh, and the question brought up about the Limiter, don't worry, you WILL know when you've reached it, the XT will Red line with no further Thrust (someone confused this with Turbo Lag.) That is why I can't understand all this talk about keeping the Engine below 3000, the Limiter kicks in at around 6000, and I thought my AT XT was going to lift off the ground the first time I went full Throttle around a Semi trying to swerve into me! As Lance says, "With Power to spare, your Confidence SURGES"!
I submit that perhaps you need to examine your driving habits rather than relying on the turbo to get you out of trouble.
People in various XT forums, including this one, talk about hitting the rev limiter in 5th gear, or brag about whatever they just out-dragged. I describe buying the XT to provide a margin of safety in passing situations, and get back inane comments like "downshift" or "use the brakes" or "examine my driving habits".
My God, you'll kill yourself man, what speed would that be around? I have experienced the Rev Limiter between 1st and 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd, it all happens so quickly, mind you I'm not shifting with my A/T XT, it's more like holding on to the Wheel for dear life. On a Humorous note, my Oil Change Notification came today for my 2004 Subaru WRX Turbo Forester XT, do you think they know something I don't?
The rev limiter subject started out as humor but I am curious if anyone has hit top end. I used to live in Ca. and all one had to do was go out on Hwy.5 in the "Big Valley" and open her up. Now I live in Ohio and there's no way. On a more serious note, does anyone know of any Subaru Clubs? I live in NE Ohio.
Hi, everybody, first time poster here. I've been lurking this forum for a few days now, and I have to say it has been an incredibly informative experience. All the questions I've had since I began shopping for an XT have been addressed, notably:
1. The engine RPM's at freeway speed. That has been a beef of mine with past vehicles and I did notice it while driving the MT XT. It seems better with the AT. What are your thoughts? How many RPM's would I save with an AT at say 80 MPH, versus the MT? Has this issue been overblown?
2. Heat in the engine compartment. Has this transferred through the firewall into the cabin causing warm driving in the summer months?
3. What about other problems with the XT? I've never owned a Subie before. Do they hold up well with regards to the small things, like interior details, moonroof, power windows, locks, etc? Do the door windows leak like I've heard, or is that just heresay?
4. What are the longterm reliability issues with a turbo engine? Reliability rates high on my priority list; I don't want to be dealing with major repair problems at 40,000 miles onward. Do they hold up well?
Right now I'm waffling hard between the XT and a new Accord. I have an Accord now, and I love the new one (2004) a lot, but it's kind of more of the same, just a little nicer. The XT excites me to no end, and I live in the Pacific Northwest, so I can justify its purchase (lousy weather 9 months out of the year, lots of mountains).
I can't think of any other car that blends so many elements into one relatively affordable machine. I'm just having trouble pulling the trigger on the buy. Please convince me, because, one way or another, I'm buyin' something before Jan. 1.
...appears y'all have apportioned ten days for a decision that might very well last you ten years. Check CU, the narratives on msn.com(auto) plus the next nine days here............best, ez
1. Engine RPMs- I didn't know it was a big issue but if it is, then yes it's overblown. However, if higher revving engines really bother you, then you shouldn't be looking at 4-cylinders (a nice big V-8 will probably loaf along doing 80 mph at 2000 rpm).
2. Heat in the engine compartment- You're kidding right?
3. Minor reliability problems- IMO Subaru is a notch below Honda in terms of initial owner satisfaction in the fit-&-finish dept. The good news is that any rattles are usually there from day-one and once corrected, Subarus are close to being bulletproof. Sheesh, the frameless door window controversy just refuses to die! There are plenty of upper-end luxury cars (I.e. Mercedes) with same design and no ones questioning them. And no, I've never heard of a window leak (except for one or two caused by a misaligned door).
4. Long-term reliability of the turbo- Well given that this is a new turbo/engine, reliability can't be anything more than informed speculation at this point. Still, Subarus in general excel at long-term reliability and Subaru has been building turbo-charged engines for a number of years.
In any case, I think you've already made up your mind: "The XT excites me to no end". If true, why would you even consider a boring (if reliable) Honda?
http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/backpack/ Unfortunately this version isn't available here. What I don't understand is....WHY? Even the pictures show California plates...which makes no sense. Everyone...please email Subaru and tell them to bring this version here! I'm sure most people would want this one over a regular X. I mean... it's definately more practical for those of us with mountain bikes and other messy stuff...and it looks cool too.
I have a auto xt and a 03 accord V6.The fit and finish in the accord is excellent and the gas mileage has been outstanding for a 240hp engine.The xt gets ok gas mileage but not great by any means.The rear seat room is bigger in the accord also.Its hard to compare these two because they both are good at what they are meant for.I just had the xt in the snow and was very impressed with it.The only thing to stop it would be ground clearance and it is plowed right away were I live anyways.If you drive on the highway alot the accord is the way to go.Do you get bad weather?Lots of kids?I enjoy swapping with my wife every few days because they are both very enjoyable cars.Have you driven the V6 accord yet? That may help you decide because that car is no slouch either.Really the auto/xt and auto/accord V6 are probably close in accelleration.If you think the auto/xt is gonna do this 5.3 0-60 its not gonna happen.Also not a problem with either car yet.I would base my decision on how many people you typically drive with and if three or more I would get the accord.Bad weather?The xt.Lots of highway?The accord.You asked a good question about the turbo on the xt.I wondered that myself.I feel that more than likely you could get over 100k but then you gotta wonder how long the turbo will last or perform up to specs.The engine itself I here is almost bulletproof.As everybody knows more than likely you can get 200k or more out of a honda without costing to much.Whatever you pick you will be happy with.Make sure to drive them both.
Forgot to mention that both cars loaded with auto are almost identical in price.But if you want the five speed you have to get the xt.Also I read your post again and there is no heat in the engine bay coming through.The xt heater kicks total butt and so does the a/c.You cant get a 5 speed xt with leather either.Later.
My Mitsubishi Dodge Plymouth Colt had a warning on the Visor about the Turbo warm up period and the critical Cool down period. I swore never a Turbo again, never a Mitsubishi product again, now it's the 21st Century, and I'm quite confident that I will get my Moneys worth out of this next Generation Subaru Turbo, with only one thing that's bothering me , it's a MITSUBISHI Turbo in the Subaru. I am glad I opted for the "added Security" Plan, after all, my 80's Turbo fried in 3 Months!
I finally had my XT on some snow and ice up in the Georgia mountains. While we did not get hit as hard as some areas of NC, parts of Georgia got some decent snow last week.
Never having driven an AWD in the snow before, I was very impressed, even with the standard tires. As I was easily going up hills and around curves, I could not help but see the trails in the snow left by others who were obviously struggling all over the road. The performance is much more natural and seemless as compared to a truck with part time 4wd, especially in areas where you hit a dry patch in the sun only to get back into an icy shaded area (my pet peeve when driving with part time 4wd). I also think a locked center differential on a 4wd truck can cause handling problems going around icy curves.
The only problem is it is so easy to drive the Subie in the snow you really have to force yourself to concentrate on keeping the speed down.
If anyone is struggling with the idea of buying an XT versus some other vehicle, get the Subaru! While it might not have the best mpg and it looks kind of dorky, there is no other vehicle with the versatility and varied capabilities of the XT at anywhere near the price.
Hey George- See, didn't we tell you there was nothing to worry about? By the way, there's one more XT now on the metro Atlanta roads! I finally pulled the trigger and got a silver one with a manual transmisson (details posted over in MTM). I'll be heading up US 441 in a couple of days on my way to NC. Maybe I'll get lucky and run into some snow.
Accord's mileage is good, but there's no wagon and no AWD either. Even the front limited-slip diffy isn't offered on the sedan, plus no manual tranny. The coupe gets these so Honda could if it wanted to.
Yeah, yeah, it's a Mitsubishi turbo. So what? They make televisions, too.
Really the turbo itself is pretty basic, it's not twin scroll and not a ball bearing design. I'm sure the aftermarket will sell upgrades right away.
I'm jealous Frank! My Resolution may be to join you, at least get off the Fence about picking which one I want!
Thanks for the input, Chad. Yes I have driven both the '04 Accord V6 and the XT extensively, about six times each, and came away impressed with both, though in different ways. The Honda is smoother and more refined, but the fun factor for the XT is higher, IMO. I do most of my yearly driving on the freeway, as in commuting, but the times that I do need a vehicle for camping, etc, my current Accord falls a little short, though I can make it work. Plus, it rains like crazy in the Northwest. The XT would solve those problems, though at a price: higher insurance and gas costs. Considerably higher. Because my new car will be my daily driver, I have to factor these things in.
Having driven both the AT and MT XT's, I have to say that both are very impressive. I was not expecting the AT to be as good as it was, and they're much easier to come by in the Tacoma, WA area than the MT's. Of course, the MT simply rips. I just can't get past that short fifth gear, as I do a lot of freeway driving. I also would probabaly lean towards the PP version.
The engine heat thing came up in an earlier post on this board; somebody mentioned that the turbo motor produced greater heat than a NA engine, and I was just wondering if that resulted in greater cockpit heat. Sounds like it's a non-issue. Thanks again for the input.
atlgaxt says: "If anyone is struggling with the idea of buying an XT versus some other vehicle, get the Subaru! While it might not have the best mpg and it looks kind of dorky, there is no other vehicle with the versatility and varied capabilities of the XT at anywhere near the price."
Thank you! That's just what I need. A not-so-gentle nudge out of my deeply ingrained tendency to play it safe! My heart screams XT, while my brain screams Accord. BTW, I don't think the Scooby looks dorky at all. I think it's sharp as all get out. Plus it "sleeps" like no other car out there. Thanks!
PS this is probably the most informative message board I've ever frequented. I've learned a ton in the last few days.
Frank - Congrats on the new XT. Since I have the auto, I hope I don't end up next to you at a traffic light.
Its funny. I went around most of the dealerships around here and ended up buying one in Decatur, which is about a mile from my house. I had a good experience there but wonder if I missed the boat not checking out the dealer in Gwinnett, as they sound pretty cool. In any case, based upon our computer search, it did not look like they had the car we were looking for when we were pulling the trigger.
I just can't get past that short fifth gear, as I do a lot of freeway driving.
Likewise. You and I are in the microscopically small minority that considers this to be a significant XT drawback. An option providing a 3.9 final drive would have eliminated it.
We have the PP with the AT. I'm real pleased with the way it drives on the freeway. My wife tends to be kind of a nervous nelly passenger. I have discovered that in the XT, if I concentrate on being smooth I can make good time through traffic at extra legal speeds without raising her attention from her book. There was one time recently that I was squeezing by a left lane bandit when she happened to look up, but even then she did not hyperventilate too much because I don't think she realized quite how fast we were going.
In any case Johnny, if you are concerned about the gearing on the five speed go ahead and get the auto. I'm normally a stickshift guy, but the XT's powerband is well suited to the auto tranny.
Last night, the XT was sitting in my locked garage; I was upstairs reading. Next thing I know, the horns are going BEEP-BEEP-BEEP on and on. Walked down to the garage and found nothing unusual except for the racket. Pressing the "unlock" button on the fob stopped it.
What the heck was that about? This car does not have the security/alarm system.
Agree with your snow comments. Have been here in the 5-6" Canada snow (Sault Ste. Marie) for about a week and have not felt the Subie (AT) slip one time on the snow-ice. I live in the Boonies and have a 7-800' hill to get over on the way to my house. VERY impressed with the AWD.. Pleased Deadeye sends..
Ballistic - Could one of your key fobs accidently have been pressed? As weak as the remotes are on our Subaru (we have to almost be leaning on the car to get ours to work) I doubt that is the case, but I have had a similar experience with another remote that I have that has an extremely long distance. (I was sitting in the house with the fob in my pocket and I moved and set the alarm off).
I recently had my own ghost experience. I was driving down the street Friday and all of a sudden I noticed the radio was changing volume. I looked down and the numeric volume level was also changing up and down on the read out. I did think to look to see if the knob itself was moving. As soon as I touched the knob it quit and it has not done it since.
JB- I agree that the FXT would benefit from having a more relaxed 5th gear (both with lower revs and better hwy mpg) but I certainly don't consider it to be a "significant drwaback". For reference purposes, I checked my NA Forester and it turned the exact same 3k rpm donig 70 mph and I had no problems living with it on long trips.
George- What color is your's? I was passed my a gold one near Avondale this afternoon. By the way, I live a mile from Royal Subaru too so we're practically neighbors!
As weak as the remotes are on our Subaru (we have to almost be leaning on the car to get ours to work) I doubt that is the case,
I thought about that, but it's unlikely the button on the remote got inadvertently pressed - and, like yours, both of mine have ridiculously short range. Most of the time I have to literally hold the fob against the window glass before it'll work.
Besides, the parking-lot-find feature on the remote only sounds the "chirp" several times - not the horns forever. So I don't think that was it.
As soon as I touched the knob it quit and it has not done it since.
I didn't realize becoming a Subaru owner also meant signing on for unpredictable supernatural happenings. What's next - my tire chains will start clanking?
has been anywhere from 5 feet to 35 yards on my OBS. I press the lock button repeatedly to find the car in those rare cases when I can't walk right to it. After two times of the faint chime then it begins to honk the horn once for each press. When I'm getting the 30-35 yard coverage it will signal me from a couple rows over if need be.
I certainly don't consider it to be a "significant drwaback".
Most don't, some do. You're with the first group; I'm in the second. We have differing priorities; like my driving style, there's no point in debating it.
For reference purposes, I checked my NA Forester and it turned the exact same 3k rpm donig 70 mph and I had no problems living with it on long trips.
The question is not whether you had no problem living with it. We can live with many things that are not ideal. Substantially increased power in what is otherwise the same vehicle will easily handle (and IMO should be accompanied with) a correspondingly taller final drive. So the question is, what would be the optimal gearing? Some people think it's the current 4.44. Some of us think otherwise.
Frank - Our XT is gold and is primarily driven by my wife during the day, but she claims that she has not been out of the office today. She manages shopping centers, so typically she is out all over the place between Buckhead, Midtown, Decatur and Avondale.
We live over by North DeKalb Mall. I was kind of joking about us seeing each other and waving in huge Atlanta, but my guess is that there is a pretty good chance that might happen since we appear to be neighbors. Small world. Sorry if Frank and I are boring everyone else with this Subaru bonding.
As anyone can tell looking at the posts, I am having trouble focusing at work during this short holiday week. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy New Year as I sign off and try to get something done before going home.
In my 2000 Passat MT I push 3000rpm at 70mph as well. Doesn't bother me and after reading this thread I made sure - on my test drive - that the rpms in the 70-80mph range didn't bother me either (edit: although I test drove an AT).
I wonder why manufacturers are going to this "non-overdrive" type gearing (since my VW does as well and I know my friends Prelude is similar). Maybe its all those incredibly stupid "Top Gear Passing" tests?
Passats and Audis I drove a year ago (while helping my sister replace a totalled Aurora) were definitely quieter and more refined inside at highway speeds, so a 3000RPM cruise speed would have been less noticeable than the XT's engine at the same speeds.
The automatic XT has a taller top gear than the 5MT, translating to about a 6% reduction in RPM at any given speed. This would be equivalent to changing the 5-speed's axle ratio from 4.44 to 4.18.
So at 70mph, you're turning the same number of revs as in a NA Forester -- how does that work when the XT has shorter gearing? When I test drove an XT, I thought I observed a similar rpm vs. mph relationship so at the time I thought the gearing was the same.
The NA Forester uses a shorter 0.780 5th gear, but taller 4.11 axles. The XT uses the WRX's 0.738 top and the 4.44 final drive. The opposite differences nearly offset (in top gear), so that overall, the XT is ever so slightly taller than the X/XS - about 2.2%, or about 60 RPM reduction at 70 mph compared to the NA. Not enough that you'd notice.
Where the difference is more noticeable is in 1st gear. Both the NA and the XT use the same 3.45 1st gear ratio - but the XT's 4.44 axle definitely reduces the speeds @ RPM in 1st.
George- Small world indeed! I live within walking distance of the North Dekalb Mall. Hey I just had a great idea for a web Holiday card to torment all those XT fence sitters (Juice & Loosh). We could have a picture of our two XTs side by side accompanied by the Burl Ives classic "Silver and Gold" (from the "Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer" soundtrack)
JB- Just to clarify something:
Minor drawback = Something you can live with
Major drawback = Something you can't live with
You know what would be incredibly ironic? If overtime's hypothesis about "Top Gear Passing" tests were true, that would mean that you have only yourself to blame since safely passing at speed is your main reason for getting the XT.
Also, in regards to your statement: "Passats and Audis I drove a year ago were definitely quieter and more refined inside at highway speeds" That's undoubtedly true but at 70 mph in the Forester, I would rate engine noise as being 3rd behind tire roar and wind noise.
JB -- Thanks, that makes sense now. I recall looking at the dash during my XT test drive once on the freeway and thinking "hey, that's about where my 98 would be".
On surface roads, I was having way to much fun to even notice the uber-short 1st.
Can someone please explain why the forester is supposed to be faster? It's loosing 17 hp and is 156lbs heavier for its 19 ftlbs of tq + probably higher gear ratios. I'm strongly considering the WRX for now.
Where'd you get the 6.7 seconds from? FYI: Car & Driver tested it at 5.3 seconds. And while I agree that 6.7 is probably much closer to what the average driver will get without abusing the clutch, the same would also hold true for the WRX so you need to compare apples to apples. (I.e. 5.3 vs 5.6). And that's why you keep hearing that the Forester is faster because under controlled conditions, it is. The reasons why it's faster are: Shorter gearing, more torque, lower rpm peak torque, and finally, the general consensus is that Subaru under reported the Forester's HP and torque numbers with the true numbers being somewhere in the 230/240 range respectively.
Of course the Forester only wins out when gong in a straght line. The WRX will take the Forester any day on a twisty road :-)
I think it's large displacement engines that tend to get very tall gearing. Note how some 3.8l V6s from GM break 30mpg highway on the EPA cycle.
Smaller engines generally don't get tall gearing because they wouldn't have enough torque that they'd be responsive in overdrive, but the XT is an exception and could easily use a 6th cog. Hint Hint, Subaru.
Passats are quieter, sure, and the W8 4Motion wagon is grossly overpriced and comparatively slow. So I guess we can blame all that extra sound insulation for cost and weight, hee hee.
Ballistic, the racket you heard was the panic alram, not the security alarm. I also had the radio volume change by itself once when I took a corner at a high speed. Hasn't happened since.
So among the XT owners out there, what's the consensus on the XT as a sole automobile, a daily driver, so to speak?
From all the reading I've done on this site the last few days (I'm about 2/3 the way through the 2300+ posts; addictive reading!) I've learned a lot about the XT's foibles, and a lot about its virtues, many of which I've experienced myself on test drives.
But when I drive this thing home and start living with it, will I eventually find it to be too unrefined and noisy to succeed as a commuter? You folks have been living with these cars for 6 months or so now. What's the verdict?
I've read so many posts that I think I've lost sight of the big picture, the overall appeal of the car. No car is perfect. But I'm finding myself locking onto the tiny details too much, worrying about buzzes and rattles, which do drive me nuts, and not seeing the car for what it is.
FWIW, my 2000 Accord is among the noisiest cars I've ever owned. It's solidly built, and there aren't any really discernible rattles or buzzes, but a lot of road noise is transferred into the cabin, especially on the many textured concrete highways prevalent in the northwest. It's every bit as noisy as my '91 Camaro was, and that was a rattle trap. I remember being really surprised the Honda was so noisy. But I've adapted.
Ballistic, I've read a ton of your posts the last few days. What's your opinion? You live in the Pacific Northwest, too. Would an XT PP succeed as a daily driver in this region? Especially coming off an Accord. For me a car has to succeed on several levels. Is the XT ONLY a performance car? I suspect not, but I'd like to hear from you folks who've lived with it.
Ive been racking my brain trying to figure why i keep coming back to this car, at first i considered the WRX wagon (smaller and too much turbo lag under 3k) then the Baja (heavier and not great for groceries) then the cheaper VUE w/$1500 cash back (loved the Honda engine, just not the automatic and cheaper overall and not great for the snow (FWD not AWD). I have a Nissan Maxima so i know all about the sedan market (need more room and want awd) and the big thing, Under 25k (affordability). Next, safety, the XT cleans up in that department (side air bags anyone?). And to wrap it up, a email from Corp. headquarters at Subaru stating that the Turbo, engine and tranny are all under the 60,000 mi warranty (to cover my 60months of payments). Then the minivans (Nissan Quest-formymoney, Honda tooOddessey, Toyota Screwennayouover due to high demand and no units)in other words, I Hate Minivans and dont really want a oversized SUV that cant take the backroad curves etc.... So, i guess i will plop down the money, save a ton on insurance thru the next 5 yrs and dont have to worry about the reliabilty because 95% of all Subaru's sold in the last 10 years are still on the road!! (Polk report). So, just buy it!
Darbow,how did you figure that ? Right now the XT is somewhat unknown when it comes to the Insurance Industry, Turbo usually means a higher Premium. And while the "Limited Warranty" covers you for 3Years/36K of ultimate fun, the Power train Warranty is even more limited! Juice, Mitsubishi makes TV's?
Scott- how do you figure that the 6-year 60k power train warranty is more limited that a 3-year 36k warranty? Did you learn new math in school? ;-) Edit: Never mind. I figured out that you were referring to components covered.
My insurance went up by about 10% but then I'm insuring a vehicle that cost twice as much to replace. I am concerned that the insurance companies will eventually catch on to the XT but I'm certainly not going to alert them.
Darbow- If the Forester's utility, safety, reliability, sportiness and overall value all match your selection criteria, what's not to like?
In response to message #2358. I've had my Java black MT XT for about 3months and 5000 miles now and use it as my daily commute (as well as stress reducer and grin inducer). My general assessment is I FLAT OUT LOVE THIS CAR! I traded in a 01 Toyota RAV 4 that got good gas mileage and was very reliable and blah, blah blah very boring. I always wanted a Subie but never was thrilled about the whole station wagon look. The first look at a Java Black XT with that hood scoop and rear window spoiler changed all that. I roamed these posts and test drove the AT and MT and at least so far think I made the best car purchase I've ever made. I've found the ride actually incredibly smooth and quiet compared to the RAV 4 and the grin factor isn't even comparable. I only have two minor gripes with the car and they've been mentioned by others.... the auto climate control is bizarre and my remote entry is schizophrenic; but even as I write this I can't wait until the ride home...especially that one on-ramp that takes a sharp curve as it merges onto the freeway. Ahh, there goes that grin again.
Comments
I've had 4 punctures in the last 6 months myself; so much housing renovation/revitalization going on in my neighborhood, and contractors aren't always too careful with that sort of thing.
You were wise to replace the plugged tire w/ the spare. A plugged or patched tire voids its speed rating. I never have a tire plugged - always use a patch. However, I would check your air pressure in the spare more frequently over the course of a few weeks. A nail, screw, railroad spike, staple, etc., can be picked up from anywhere.
Ok, no comment there. You guys laugh at our "mountains". :-D
-Dennis
former RM2 AO-177
John
People in various XT forums, including this one, talk about hitting the rev limiter in 5th gear, or brag about whatever they just out-dragged. I describe buying the XT to provide a margin of safety in passing situations, and get back inane comments like "downshift" or "use the brakes" or "examine my driving habits".
Shaking my head in amazement.
John
1. The engine RPM's at freeway speed. That has been a beef of mine with past vehicles and I did notice it while driving the MT XT. It seems better with the AT. What are your thoughts? How many RPM's would I save with an AT at say 80 MPH, versus the MT? Has this issue been overblown?
2. Heat in the engine compartment. Has this transferred through the firewall into the cabin causing warm driving in the summer months?
3. What about other problems with the XT? I've never owned a Subie before. Do they hold up well with regards to the small things, like interior details, moonroof, power windows, locks, etc? Do the door windows leak like I've heard, or is that just heresay?
4. What are the longterm reliability issues with a turbo engine? Reliability rates high on my priority list; I don't want to be dealing with major repair problems at 40,000 miles onward. Do they hold up well?
Right now I'm waffling hard between the XT and a new Accord. I have an Accord now, and I love the new one (2004) a lot, but it's kind of more of the same, just a little nicer. The XT excites me to no end, and I live in the Pacific Northwest, so I can justify its purchase (lousy weather 9 months out of the year, lots of mountains).
I can't think of any other car that blends so many elements into one relatively affordable machine. I'm just having trouble pulling the trigger on the buy. Please convince me, because, one way or another, I'm buyin' something before Jan. 1.
Thanks in advance.
1. Engine RPMs- I didn't know it was a big issue but if it is, then yes it's overblown. However, if higher revving engines really bother you, then you shouldn't be looking at 4-cylinders (a nice big V-8 will probably loaf along doing 80 mph at 2000 rpm).
2. Heat in the engine compartment- You're kidding right?
3. Minor reliability problems- IMO Subaru is a notch below Honda in terms of initial owner satisfaction in the fit-&-finish dept. The good news is that any rattles are usually there from day-one and once corrected, Subarus are close to being bulletproof. Sheesh, the frameless door window controversy just refuses to die! There are plenty of upper-end luxury cars (I.e. Mercedes) with same design and no ones questioning them. And no, I've never heard of a window leak (except for one or two caused by a misaligned door).
4. Long-term reliability of the turbo- Well given that this is a new turbo/engine, reliability can't be anything more than informed speculation at this point. Still, Subarus in general excel at long-term reliability and Subaru has been building turbo-charged engines for a number of years.
In any case, I think you've already made up your mind: "The XT excites me to no end". If true, why would you even consider a boring (if reliable) Honda?
-Frank P.
http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/lineup/lineup_x_backpack.html
http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/backpack/
Unfortunately this version isn't available here. What I don't understand is....WHY? Even the pictures show California plates...which makes no sense. Everyone...please email Subaru and tell them to bring this version here!
I'm sure most people would want this one over a regular X. I mean... it's definately more practical for those of us with mountain bikes and other messy stuff...and it looks cool too.
The experts over at an oil board get bored with reading Subaru used oil reports because they're always so good ( another good Subaru report)!
Coolant flows around the turbo and continues to do so for a few minutes after shut-off. This is definitely not the bad turbos of the 80's.
-Dennis
Never having driven an AWD in the snow before, I was very impressed, even with the standard tires. As I was easily going up hills and around curves, I could not help but see the trails in the snow left by others who were obviously struggling all over the road. The performance is much more natural and seemless as compared to a truck with part time 4wd, especially in areas where you hit a dry patch in the sun only to get back into an icy shaded area (my pet peeve when driving with part time 4wd). I also think a locked center differential on a 4wd truck can cause handling problems going around icy curves.
The only problem is it is so easy to drive the Subie in the snow you really have to force yourself to concentrate on keeping the speed down.
If anyone is struggling with the idea of buying an XT versus some other vehicle, get the Subaru! While it might not have the best mpg and it looks kind of dorky, there is no other vehicle with the versatility and varied capabilities of the XT at anywhere near the price.
-Frank P.
Yeah, yeah, it's a Mitsubishi turbo. So what? They make televisions, too.
Really the turbo itself is pretty basic, it's not twin scroll and not a ball bearing design. I'm sure the aftermarket will sell upgrades right away.
I'm jealous Frank! My Resolution may be to join you, at least get off the Fence about picking which one I want!
-juice
-Frank P.
-juice
Having driven both the AT and MT XT's, I have to say that both are very impressive. I was not expecting the AT to be as good as it was, and they're much easier to come by in the Tacoma, WA area than the MT's. Of course, the MT simply rips. I just can't get past that short fifth gear, as I do a lot of freeway driving. I also would probabaly lean towards the PP version.
The engine heat thing came up in an earlier post on this board; somebody mentioned that the turbo motor produced greater heat than a NA engine, and I was just wondering if that resulted in greater cockpit heat. Sounds like it's a non-issue. Thanks again for the input.
atlgaxt says: "If anyone is struggling with the idea of buying an XT versus some other vehicle, get the Subaru! While it might not have the best mpg and it looks kind of dorky, there is no other vehicle with the versatility and varied capabilities of the XT at anywhere near the price."
Thank you! That's just what I need. A not-so-gentle nudge out of my deeply ingrained tendency to play it safe! My heart screams XT, while my brain screams Accord. BTW, I don't think the Scooby looks dorky at all. I think it's sharp as all get out. Plus it "sleeps" like no other car out there. Thanks!
PS this is probably the most informative message board I've ever frequented. I've learned a ton in the last few days.
Its funny. I went around most of the dealerships around here and ended up buying one in Decatur, which is about a mile from my house. I had a good experience there but wonder if I missed the boat not checking out the dealer in Gwinnett, as they sound pretty cool. In any case, based upon our computer search, it did not look like they had the car we were looking for when we were pulling the trigger.
Likewise. You and I are in the microscopically small minority that considers this to be a significant XT drawback. An option providing a 3.9 final drive would have eliminated it.
In any case Johnny, if you are concerned about the gearing on the five speed go ahead and get the auto. I'm normally a stickshift guy, but the XT's powerband is well suited to the auto tranny.
What the heck was that about? This car does not have the security/alarm system.
Check your battery, actually. When you reconnect it you sometimes get that kind of behavior.
-juice
:-)
slip one time on the snow-ice. I live in the Boonies and have a 7-800' hill to get over on the way to my house. VERY impressed with the AWD..
Pleased Deadeye sends..
I recently had my own ghost experience. I was driving down the street Friday and all of a sudden I noticed the radio was changing volume. I looked down and the numeric volume level was also changing up and down on the read out. I did think to look to see if the knob itself was moving. As soon as I touched the knob it quit and it has not done it since.
George- What color is your's? I was passed my a gold one near Avondale this afternoon. By the way, I live a mile from Royal Subaru too so we're practically neighbors!
-Frank P.
I thought about that, but it's unlikely the button on the remote got inadvertently pressed - and, like yours, both of mine have ridiculously short range. Most of the time I have to literally hold the fob against the window glass before it'll work.
Besides, the parking-lot-find feature on the remote only sounds the "chirp" several times - not the horns forever. So I don't think that was it.
As soon as I touched the knob it quit and it has not done it since.
I didn't realize becoming a Subaru owner also meant signing on for unpredictable supernatural happenings. What's next - my tire chains will start clanking?
Most don't, some do. You're with the first group; I'm in the second. We have differing priorities; like my driving style, there's no point in debating it.
For reference purposes, I checked my NA Forester and it turned the exact same 3k rpm donig 70 mph and I had no problems living with it on long trips.
The question is not whether you had no problem living with it. We can live with many things that are not ideal. Substantially increased power in what is otherwise the same vehicle will easily handle (and IMO should be accompanied with) a correspondingly taller final drive. So the question is, what would be the optimal gearing? Some people think it's the current 4.44. Some of us think otherwise.
We live over by North DeKalb Mall. I was kind of joking about us seeing each other and waving in huge Atlanta, but my guess is that there is a pretty good chance that might happen since we appear to be neighbors. Small world. Sorry if Frank and I are boring everyone else with this Subaru bonding.
As anyone can tell looking at the posts, I am having trouble focusing at work during this short holiday week. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy New Year as I sign off and try to get something done before going home.
George
I wonder why manufacturers are going to this "non-overdrive" type gearing (since my VW does as well and I know my friends Prelude is similar). Maybe its all those incredibly stupid "Top Gear Passing" tests?
overtime
The automatic XT has a taller top gear than the 5MT, translating to about a 6% reduction in RPM at any given speed. This would be equivalent to changing the 5-speed's axle ratio from 4.44 to 4.18.
So at 70mph, you're turning the same number of revs as in a NA Forester -- how does that work when the XT has shorter gearing? When I test drove an XT, I thought I observed a similar rpm vs. mph relationship so at the time I thought the gearing was the same.
Ken
Where the difference is more noticeable is in 1st gear. Both the NA and the XT use the same 3.45 1st gear ratio - but the XT's 4.44 axle definitely reduces the speeds @ RPM in 1st.
JB- Just to clarify something:
Minor drawback = Something you can live with
Major drawback = Something you can't live with
You know what would be incredibly ironic? If overtime's hypothesis about "Top Gear Passing" tests were true, that would mean that you have only yourself to blame since safely passing at speed is your main reason for getting the XT.
Also, in regards to your statement: "Passats and Audis I drove a year ago were definitely quieter and more refined inside at highway speeds" That's undoubtedly true but at 70 mph in the Forester, I would rate engine noise as being 3rd behind tire roar and wind noise.
-Frank P.
On surface roads, I was having way to much fun to even notice the uber-short 1st.
Ken
Forester XT: weight 3241lbs WRX 3085 wagon 3165
Forester XT: 0-60mph 6.7 seconds WRX 5.6 seconds
210 hp vs 227 hp
236ftlbs TQ vs 217 ftlbs TQ
Can someone please explain why the forester is supposed to be faster? It's loosing 17 hp and is 156lbs heavier for its 19 ftlbs of tq + probably higher gear ratios. I'm strongly considering the WRX for now.
Of course the Forester only wins out when gong in a straght line. The WRX will take the Forester any day on a twisty road :-)
-Frank P.
Smaller engines generally don't get tall gearing because they wouldn't have enough torque that they'd be responsive in overdrive, but the XT is an exception and could easily use a 6th cog. Hint Hint, Subaru.
Passats are quieter, sure, and the W8 4Motion wagon is grossly overpriced and comparatively slow. So I guess we can blame all that extra sound insulation for cost and weight, hee hee.
-juice
From all the reading I've done on this site the last few days (I'm about 2/3 the way through the 2300+ posts; addictive reading!) I've learned a lot about the XT's foibles, and a lot about its virtues, many of which I've experienced myself on test drives.
But when I drive this thing home and start living with it, will I eventually find it to be too unrefined and noisy to succeed as a commuter? You folks have been living with these cars for 6 months or so now. What's the verdict?
I've read so many posts that I think I've lost sight of the big picture, the overall appeal of the car. No car is perfect. But I'm finding myself locking onto the tiny details too much, worrying about buzzes and rattles, which do drive me nuts, and not seeing the car for what it is.
FWIW, my 2000 Accord is among the noisiest cars I've ever owned. It's solidly built, and there aren't any really discernible rattles or buzzes, but a lot of road noise is transferred into the cabin, especially on the many textured concrete highways prevalent in the northwest. It's every bit as noisy as my '91 Camaro was, and that was a rattle trap. I remember being really surprised the Honda was so noisy. But I've adapted.
Ballistic, I've read a ton of your posts the last few days. What's your opinion? You live in the Pacific Northwest, too. Would an XT PP succeed as a daily driver in this region? Especially coming off an Accord. For me a car has to succeed on several levels. Is the XT ONLY a performance car? I suspect not, but I'd like to hear from you folks who've lived with it.
Everybody, I appreciate any input.
Juice, Mitsubishi makes TV's?
My insurance went up by about 10% but then I'm insuring a vehicle that cost twice as much to replace. I am concerned that the insurance companies will eventually catch on to the XT but I'm certainly not going to alert them.
Darbow- If the Forester's utility, safety, reliability, sportiness and overall value all match your selection criteria, what's not to like?
-Frank P.