By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
TIA,
Stuart
-Frank P.
DaveM
-Frank P.
First, I need to state that I didn't make it happen. SoA made the call (after some strong suggestions on my part) :-P
My red one had a serious transmission issue. I don't want to go into too many details as I know the conspiracy theorists on some of these boards may jump on the opportunity to use my example as to why they should get a new car.....
It was in the shop 15 of the first 30 days of ownership. It stranded me on the highway and scared the crap out of me another time when the flaw acted up a second time after service.
The reason I won't go into detail is that after EXTENSIVE searching on the Internet I've not found another case of this problem and neither has Subaru. To those of you who would say that skipping the details is counter productive to the purpose of these boards, I disagree. I'm not protecting Subaru so much as refraining from yelling fire in a crowded theater. If you have this problem, you'll know about it.
BUT, on a related note, that RED XT had numerous other problems beside the bad tranny. Bad sunroof, dash rattles, poorly operating hatch....it was a "Monday" car for sure. (meaning it was built on Monday, when people are still recovering from the weekend and not paying attention to their job)
This BLACK one on the other hand. It rocks. Had a nasty dash rattle that they isolated to the AC piping in the engine compartment rattling on the firewall. Bolted that down and now it's running great.
Plus, I think I now like the Black better. :-)
I still have a few issues open with Subaru regarding this mess. And trust me, it's been MESSY. I'll give the rest of the details when it's over.
I will impart this advice....when you have a problem of this nature be persistent and remember that the people of SoA are on your side....let them work with you through these problems.
One last comment, evidently the transmission is a Mitsubushi Transmission. So it's not even Subaru's fault. ;-)
I shopped around and the Subie hitch was the best value. For $180 at 1stsubaruparts.com, it comes with all mounting hardware, and all electrical pieces if you ever need to tow a trailer.
I hope nobody who drives your car is in the "park by ear" group, backing into a parallel space and continuing backward until something goes "crunch". The protruding ball hitch can really screw things up on the other car. Plus, people walking through the space between your rear end and the adjacent car might not realize you have a protruding ball hitch until it takes a bite out of their shins. Speaking from personal experience here.
) - ;
-Frank P.
Slow learner, eh? I only have to experience excruciating pain once before eliminating the source.
I thought that a hitch with the receiver and/or ball in it could cause frame problems in a low speed wreck vs letting the bumper take the hit?
Steve, Host
You're probably right that a rear impact against a ball-equipped hitch might transmit impact to areas that, unlike the bumper, weren't designed to absorb it. However, if the resulting distorion is sufficient to be problematic, you'd probably have significant damage with or without the hitch.
Pass the Advil please.
Another POV re hitches:
sebring95 "I don't like SUVs, why do you?" Apr 17, 2003 1:09pm
Steve, Host
Don
Inasmuch as I was underwater during those years, I missed them entirely.
-Frank P.
Shins are another matter entirely.
I'm still debating trailer hitch v. roof mount for my bikes as well. I already have a hitch mount rack I use on the MDX so the cost of a hitch v. two roof racks (the kind I'd get...I'm VERY particular with expensive bikes) is very similar. Call me silly but I don't like putting extra weight (of the hitch) on the XT ;-). I also will probably remove the cross bars on the XT and just re-mount them if I need to carry bikes (one bike will fit inside unless I have passengers as well). Decisions. Decisions.
overtime
Okay, that sounds pretty silly to me. What's your rationale? From a handling perspective 50 lbs on the hitch is a lot safer than on the roof.
-Frank P.
overtime
james
I get plenty of that talk from my wife <sigh>; I don't need it here thankyouverymuch!
The downside to this is that it does not seem to be indicative of a great demand for XTs away from this board.
I'm seeing no indications that the XT has become the hot seller we all were sure it would be. It has now been almost 7 months since I bought mine, in a metro area of over 2 mil people and 6 Subaru dealerships within a 25 mile radius - and in all that time, paying close attention, I've seen exactly one other XT on the road, and I've seen that one only once. Yet Subarus in general are so popular here that practically every third car seems to be an Outback or OB Sport or ordinary Forester or whatever. Just no XTs.
I find this quite perplexing. About 80% (nonscientific) of all pre-XT road tests commented that the NA engine is adequate, but underpowered. The XT certainly rectified that! Yet, not many takers.
Drove into Los Angeles on Sunday. 200+ miles round trip.
Arguably one of the worst stretches of concrete in the US - real acid test. (FYI: 14-5-91-57)
In the worst sections (and if you’ve ever been there - you know these are BAD!) the
ride was incredibly choppy, harsh and loud and the short-wheelbase
imparts a bucking bronco element to the mix. One can mollify all this to
some extent by yelling ‘Rally Car!’ during these extreme passages. In contrast on the rare
smooth stretches the geolanders meeting the road generated the only significant
cabin noise - wind noise well controlled even at high-speed.
On average, the ride and highway noise are reasonable/tolerable and the
trade offs of handling, instantly available thrust, unparalleled
visability - all giving one a fine sense of control are IMO worth it. But, honestly if I had to commute this exact route daily I would find another vehicle - or better, find another job!
Felt safe and secure rumbling alongside the
big boys and nimbly jockeying for position. Despite the Forester’s relatively small size, I did not feel puny in the least. Love the seat and driving position.
I am glad I went into this knowing the (IMO) downsides
to this vehicle and accepting them up front.
I'm still marvelling at the detailed fit and finish. Rivals/Surpasses any Toyota or Honda I have driven. FWIW, my chudder is seemingly self-healing. Maybe radials were sitting too long on the lot and got 'square'. Anyway, high speeds on smooth roadway not inducing any significant shudder. I'm still keeping a jaundiced eye out.
Need to know: anyone found the coffee cup/travel mug that makes the perfect fit in the cupholders?
srp
I have only two carps on that point. First, when I move the seat to the just-right distance from clutch and deadpedal, it's too close to the throttle, requiring an odd right-leg position - but if I set it right for the throttle, then fully depressing the long-travel clutch is a real toe-tip stretch. Not so on yours?
And second, the angle of the base cushion is too "flat". Combined with the typical modern seatbelts that won't cinch your hips snugly in place, my butt slides forward (the upholstery doesn't seem very 'grippy'),so I have to frequently re-position myself fully back in the seat. I think about 15-20 degrees of additional seat-base angle (up at front, down at rear) would be very helpful.
I'm as good an example of a hesitant XT buyer as there is. I've always wanted the Subaru to have just a touch more power (owned an '82 Loyale Wagon for years and a '97 Outback Wagon more recently). I mentioned I just drove the '04 Forester XS--and, yes, it's still missing something too.
BUT, the XT forces me to rethink: "why a Subaru?" Its modest fuel economy, premium gasoline, average emissions ratings are "new" issues, ones that many buyers who are inclined towards Subaru are having to adjust to.
The Forester still appeals primarily as a practical (family?) car, so I not have to convince myself that the trade-off is worth it; more to the point I have to convince my wife (who is a whole lot less taken by power than I am, and a whole lot more committed to economy).
Zman
However, for me (and maybe for you) the XT, as delivered, might possibly be overkill. I had in mind a 210HP car (as advertised!), not one with 240-245, as it actually develops. The latter HP figures indicate that the XT is only slightly detuned from STi specs, and that (plus the gearing) accounts for the substantial MPG hit. Obviously, people who want the fastest machine around are very happy. Some of us would have been better served by an "actual" 210HP XT, with the additional de-tuning permitting better MPG and maybe even 87-octane fuel.
Unfortunately, Subaru gives no middle-ground alternative. If the base Forester's 165HP isn't quite enough, and the XT's 240-whatever is more than you need, you're stuck. Nothing offered by anyone else fills the wide performance gap between the XS and XT any better, IMO.
-Frank P.
Honda CRV: Pluses - Honda resale value and reputation for quality. Excellent room for people and stuff. Good price. I passed on it because of no leather (and goofy upholstery), bland looks (I actually liked the first generation better) somewhat tippy handling on the small tires, and just OK power.
Toyota RAV 4: Pluses - Toyota resale value and reputation for quality. Good looks (best in class IMHO). Good handling. I passed primarily because of its small size (probably perception as much as anything else) and modest power when I was buying. However, if I knew about the new 2.4 l engine, that might have made me think some more. Also, my wife thought the name was goofy and she said she would refuse to drive it.
Hyundai Sante Fe: Hyundai is really coming around. I think their quality is up, but resale is probably still lagging. Good room. Ok power (would expect more from the V6). Odd looks and the fact that it is a Hyundai kept me away (I know - I am an automotive bigot).
Mitsubishi Outlander: IMHO, nothing really outstanding about this vehicle one way or another. I used to like Mitsubishi with their subcompacts in the early to mid 1980s, but I think their reputation and resale has sunk below the Koreans (or the Koreans surpassed them). Base Forester beat this in a head to head test in Motor Trend for 2003 models. Like the RAV 4, the new engine makes it a little more interesting in 2004 but not enough to change the equasion.
Saturn Vue: The available power of the new Honda V6 does not overcome the plastic interior and overall perception of inferior build quality.
Ford Escape / Mazda Tribute: Actually quite fun to drive with the V6. Good room, decent styling inside (materials are kind of cheap though) and out. Noise vibration and harshness (NVH) worse than Subaru. Concerns about overall quality and resale kept me away.
Landrover Freelander: Overpriced POS for poseurs.
Am I missing something? I did not want a truck based model so Xterras, Rodeos, Sorentos were out.
The clinchers for Subaru: Power, top rated safety, 5 mph bumpers, huge sunroof, and arguably the most capable all wheel drive system as compared to the others. As with everything, there are trade offs, primarily being price, NVH, higher fuel costs but the FXT works for me. I think it would work for more folks if Subaru did a better job marketing.
I obviously agree, and my particular requirements would likely have been better met by that intermediate version, but (especially for a car company whose market share is as small as Subaru's) offering 18-gazillion different models is impractical. So, people like zman have to decide on one or the other of the two extremes.
I think the Kia Sorento has hands-down the best body styling and also a useful amount of room, but the clumsy truck-based underpinnings were unacceptable. I think the Vue is attractive outside, but not inside. The Redline engine wasn't available when I was shopping, but it's highly unlikely that it's available with a stick. However, the 5-speed automatic might have been acceptable.
Based on my read of your comments, I think you'll wind up with the best combination of virtues offered by any of those choices - the Forester. Your only remaining hard choice will be reasonable MPG with average power (XS) or brilliant performance for not too much more $$, but with mediocre MPG on costly 91-octane fuel (XT).
-Frank P.
Edit: I see George beat me to the punch :-)
ahhh - therein lies another beauty of the all-but-wonderful AT. Only one foot to worry about.
the angle of the base cushion is too "flat"
I have mine cranked to the full lowest position - and the angle is OK. Anything higher, the seat seems to tilt forward, yes. All in all, I'd prefer a bit of a kick-back to the seat cushion - but again, in full-lowest I'm OK/Happy.
-srp
I'd forgotten you bought the slushbox; another senior moment.
break-in is a bear!
srp
-Frank P.
Jack- Note how I threw in the nautical terms just for you :-)
-Frank P.
Zman
No doubt somebody like me in the beancounter brigade saw an opportunity to save a whole 28.57 cents per car.