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Comments
For a person that rarely encounters nasty conditions, chains are the best way to go IMO because they are efficient and economical.
overtime
George- Generally speaking, the narrower the tire the better it performs in snow and ice so you'd probably be worse off with your Mazda's "aggressive" truck tires.
-Frank P.
But what is your life worth? Seriously? The last place I want to be is on the shoulder of a dark road in a low-visibility snowstorm, installing chains while other drivers go slip/sliding/spinning past. Way too many people have died in that exact circumstance, which I avoid like the plague.
I can mount my dedicated snows in the safety and comfort of my garage whenever bad weather threatens, and then I'm ready for anything without having to worry one iota about having to deal with chains and all their hazards (or maybe not pulling over in time to install them under dangerous circumstances).
Very cheap peace of mind.
It's just too unpredictable. We'd either have the snows on when they weren't needed, or have the summer tires on when we did. Murphy's Law.
-juice
I pay attention to forecasts during winter. When a cold front is reportedly moving in, we always get at least a day's advance notice. That's when I first mount my snows. A week or two after the slick stuff's gone, if the long-term forecast is clear, off they come. If another front moves in, back on again.
Some Oregon winters, I never have to mount them at all. Other years, I've mounted and removed them as many as three times, but only when needed. Result: One set of snows will outlast any car, and I always have the best tires for the conditions on the car.
And it's good exercise, something I get too little of.
Don
-Frank P.
You nailed it. That's just never the case in DC, it seems. They are wrong more often than they are right!
In fact, one group did a study and found a more accurate method to predict weather was to just predict that the weather tomorrow would be the same as today!
I carry a small amount of sand. Never needed it, though. :-)
-juice
Jack, I respect your opinion but in this case for my use (Frank nailed it in his description of my potential use), I think chains would make the most sense. However I am intrigued to learn more about the spray on traction product and wonder if anyone else has knowledge or experience with it. I'm guessing with the XT hp and AWD, chains, and this spray on traction stuff, I could climb the sheer wall of an icy cliff!
I see the attraction of winter tires for sure but for someone like me who might encounter winter conditions a few times a year and even then the all weather tires usually do a fine job if you drive well, chains are a very good choice. If you frequently encounter snow/ice/freezing conditions then winter tires are the way to go.
overtime
What I dimly recall is that back in the '70s/'80s or thereabouts when front-drive cars were bursting on the scene touting their allegedly superior winter driving capabilities, several GM models (Chev I specifically remember) were available with an accesory sprayer with which the driver could (through a nozzle in each rear wheelwell) spray a small amount of chemical traction compound from a reservoir onto your rotating tire, temporarily providing improved traction on snow and ice. Not terribly unlike a windshield washer tank, pump, and nozzles. What it was that went into the tank, I never knew for certain. Probably a mixture of saltwater and who knows what.
Works great for me, but no. However, it is the only exercise I get all year, so if you persuade me to stop doing it, my wife will hunt you down and kill you.
The snow we had was soft and dry and then got a coating of sleet on top - a very unsusual event. The tires sank down about 4" but I think the real problem was the coating of sleet on top that made the surface very slippery. I have gone up the driveway many times in snow before with the XT without problems. Yesterday morning I dug out the snow around the car, made two tracks for the tires and it went right up the driveway without problem. My driveway has a steep drop-off on one side and supports for our deck on the other where I got stuck. When the car started drifting sideways on a turn I decided to stop, leave it and not take a chance on causing any damge. It stayed right where I left it and no damge was done to anything.
Having said all that,if I were you I would buy a set of cable chains to use in an emeregency while you are up there. They cost about $50 or less and it is cheap insurance. Having driven in snow for many years I am more worried about going down slippery roads than going up and chains would provide good traction in both directions. When you get rid of your geolanders, replace them with all-season tires that have a better snow rating. I think snow tires are overkill in your situation.
Hope I answered your concerns. Like several people have said, the Forester XT is as good on snow as any vehicle and better than most, but it has limitations. One problem I may have caused myself was being too heavy on the gas pedal causing the tires to break loose. One feature that I liked about the Isuzus is that they had a "winter" button that would start the vehicle in 3rd gear to prevent wheel slip. With all the power that the XT has, it would be a good feature to add. In it's absense I would caution all XT drivers to be very light on the gas pedal when it is slippery.
DaveM
Ken
Since I was going to put the cheaper rims on anyway, and the Geolanders really weren't all that great IMO, I figured I'd go for some basic snow tires. So far the Winterforce tires have been great.
That being said, since I put them on right before Thanksgiving and take them off the 2nd week of March, I expect to put about 4k-5k per year on them. Since most snow tires at that price point degrade early, if I get 4 seasons out of them for $210 I'll be very happy.
I'm wondering if the people happy with the Geolanders in the snow drive MT's vs AT's. Control, I think, is always a little better with a MT.
Re: batteries, As soon as someone around here gets size 35's in stock again I'll replace mine. Not that it's died on me, but only because a battery should also IMO, have as wide a margin of extra current available as possible. I remember driving almost 100 miles with a trashed alternator one night in a snowstorm. The battery was gasping when I made it to the driveway, but I did make it. The reserve power of the 320 CCA in the XT is just too little. Silly of them not to offer a HD battery as an option, esp for cars touted as winter vehicles - lots of extra battery drain with the AWP.
I'm wondering if the people happiest with the battery also perhaps have longer commutes (more recharge/recovery time) than those of us complaining about the battery being under-sized for its task. My commute is only 4 miles each way, but its mostly stop and go and usually takes a half hour or more to cover the 4 miles. SO its lots of idling, not the best engine speed to recharge a battery.
re: the HAL 2004 Auto climate control - I've STUDIED that manual. The only somewhat brash comment I'll make is that given a way to rewrite the software for that thing, I'll offer odds I could do a better job myself. - Talk about inviting barbs. :<)
Getting ready for the next snow storm tonight/tomorrow morning. As usual for the Boston area predictions range 6 inches to over a foot. Are weather people in the rest of the country this bad?
Larry
-les
Mine's the 5-speed, and I got terrific results from the Geolanders this year.
For most kinds of driving, I'd agree with you that MTs give better control. However, for snow conditions (and especially for getting started from a stop on an uphill grade with minimal wheelspin) I don't think anything beats an automatic.
Larry
This is what one of the staff at the SoA booth told me and Bob at NAIAS, and now we've seen a 2nd rumor that implies the same thing.
Get this - it may get...MORE POWER! LOL! As if the XT needs it.
Any how, just thought I'd share. If you think the XT has too much power, then the LL Bean may be just right for you, with WAY too much power.
-juice
Maybe with all that extra power they'll drop in 2.91 axles.
I've only had the car for about three months, but have had the good fortune (or misfortune) to test the car's mettle on snow quite a bit. Here are my observations that may or may not be helpful to others struggling with the XT on snow. This is based on driving hilly roads (some dirt only) in New York's Catskill Mountains (granted, not the biggest mountains in the country, but mountains nonetheless)during snowstorms of 22, 12 and 8 inches (24 more on the way, I am told). These storms included everything from light powder to heavy wet snow and also freezing conditions where ice was firm underneath an inch or two of snow.
First, the grip of the Forester XT on snow is particularly strong. I've never once spun the tires and have experienced no slippage in the three snowstorms that I outline above. That includes on normal roads (some plowed, some not) as well as a few trailheads on the way to snowshoeing, etc. At no time were my girlfriend and I ever concerned about the car's ability on snow--up or downhill.
Second, I can't say the Geolander tires "suck." I guess all things are relative, but these are pretty darn good tires. In fact, when I was purchasing the vehicle, I looked into an immediate upgrade of the tires (something I always do) and the dealer told me there wasn't much else I could do to upgrade them because the Geolanders are very good tires. I confirmed this with two other tire dealers who said these were, overall, pretty darn good tires. I am also told the tires on the XT premium are slightly better than the tires on the other trim levels, although at this point, the only difference I can discern is that one has black lettering and the other white lettering. My guess is that the Geolanders are fine for 98% of all the winter driving that people need to do. I have family in Montreal and plan to take the Geolanders through the Adirondacks straight through to Montreal and Quebec--in the dead of winter.
Third, the Winterforce tires are considered the absolute best by the Subaru dealer (studded, please) as well as a couple of other folks who felt they needed snowtires for extra traction in their jaunts to Upstate, New York, as well as Vermont and Maine. I know of two people who have gone to Maine in rough snow using the Winterforce tires and have not had one problem. I don't feel the need to upgrade, or have a separate set of snow tires, but if I did, I would buy an extra set of rims with the Winteforce tires on them.
Fourth, all snow is not equal. I think snow in the Northeast is heavier and more wet than most of the snow you get in the south. Not sure why I think that, but I do know snow from Northern Canada is definitely heavier than snow from New York--believe me, I have a back that will testify to that. I can't imagine the snow you would get in Georgia would present any greater challenge than what we've had in the Catskills--and I have had not one problem with traction and safety. Ice is an entirely different matter and I am happy to report there that I've had no traction problems on ice either.
Fifth, my biggest concerns about driving in snow are not related to the XT, but rather to the folks who never learned to drive their cars or SUVs properly. We pass a great deal of large SUVs that don't get good traction and spin out. Proper use of the gas (and no brake) and the XT is about all I need to feel safe, but then I tend not to over think this stuff. I need to know.
Six, I am a big believer in chains. Not for the long haul, obviously, but throwing a set of chains in the car on long trips where a great deal of snow could be anticipated is a smart, safe move. Plus, the new chains are much easier to get on and get off than the old chains ever were. Given that they don't cost a ton, they might be a nice solution.
overtime
DaveM
-Dennis
They could pitch the LL Bean as the quieter one with more relaxed gearing and more insulation. Who knows?
-juice
http://autonet.ca/autonetstories/Stories.cfm?StoryID=10366
DaveM
However if, as DaveM suggests, that's where the Sportshift and VTD first rear their heads in a Forester turbo, then I'll have to EAT (pun intended) those words.
Related: The new Bean spring catalog features an '04 Bean Outback ad, which states that $100 from every '04 sold wil be donated to the Lance Armstrong Foundation.
Ed
They did hint that Sportshift would make it to that model, plus you can always de-badge.
-juice
I just hope they come in colors compatible with my anthracite OZs, else I'll have to sell 'em and find a set in gold.
Ed
-juice
If only Costco carried it...
See if you can get the exact model of the Cooper and what its price is.
Blizzaks are mainly for people who need nearly the ice traction provided by studs, but who live in areas where studs are illegal. Otherwise, studded tires are usually cheaper and also a bit better on hard ice.
Cheap can get you killed, frugal means you get to have some bucks to enjoy your retirement.
I know some people thought I was cheap when I was expounding my views that some of the XT's features were not all they could be in this price class.
Larry
As I recall, they said that after about six years, rubber degrading will cause a significant reduction in traction. Suggestions to prolong tire life (when not on the vehicle) included:
Store in a cool location
Air-down the tires
Store tires in plastic bags
There may have been more, but that's all I recall off-hand. Anyone else read the article?
james
Jon
Serendipitously, I store my tires in my crawl space (cool), and usually cover them with plastic (mainly to keep the spiders and spiderwebs off). I haven't depressurized them before, but that wouldn't be hard to do. I'd want a better air compressor, though; my little 12-volt jobbie would take forever reinflating four tires.
I think quite a bit of the degredation that can prematurely age a tire results from ultraviolet sunlight, from the constant flexing in use, and from the effects of heat buildup. A tire not on the car won't experience those conditions and ought to last quite awhile. In the past when I was driving more miles year-round than now, I had no difficulty getting 8 or 9 years out of snow tires.
In fact I still have two, on OEM '79 RX-7 alloys, that ran from '78 until '89 and still probably have half their treadlife.