Subaru XT Turbo Forester

edunnett

I can't say that the XT will "kick the [non-permissible content removed]" of Mustangs or boxsters, but ...

Corkfish, that is one big "BUT".

The 2004 Forester XT can outrun the 2004 Porsche Boxter from stand-still by 1.2 seconds. That's 20% better performance. I'd say there's some definite kicking going on SOMEplace... ;-) Oh, and we can outrun nearly every Mustang - including the Mach 1 or the SVT - can't remember which. Check out the link I have in post #4837 but the link seems to be down at the moment.

-elissa

miamixt

just saw the new 05. My O4 was in better Condition, and I only have 7 K on it. However can you say the phrase "Rack & Pinion Replacement"?

paddyk

I just got back from a camping trip with my tent trailer also. Noticed a bounce oscillation when on poor concrete freeways (Michigan roads). I didn't notice this as much when towing with my old Ford Explorer. I think the extra mass of the Explorer dampens out the bounce.
Plenty of power to spare towing a 1000lb trailer, much better than the Explorer.
My mpg were 18.2

My next camping trip will be in September. Michigan to Maine.

paddy
Westland MI

ugly2

I'm curious why your mpg is so much lower than mine and you're towing over 1000lbs less load. What is your shift point? I've dropped mine down to 3500 to 4000 while pulling the trailer. And if the engine sounds like it's straining or I actually see that its peaked at a certain rpm, as in the case of a grade, I up shift instead of holding at a lower rpm. Just a couple of thoughts.

John

grove4

I dont think the auto XT would outrun all the cars you stated.Quite frankly the wifes XT doesnt impress me to much.At least as much as it seems to with other people on these boards.Just like the edmunds review on the new legacy gets a so so for the auto and the 5sp they really like.And on the legacy the auto is even a 5sp.I just think the 2.5 turbo is much more suited for a manual.

cmuniz

I have to disagree - I think the auto on the Forester XT is a great match for the engine. I don't know about outrunning any cars, but it has plenty of power in any gear at any rpm on the mountain roads that I travel. I find the gear changes smooth and can use second or third gear at will if I deem necessary - otherwise I leave it to the auto to determine which is best.

paddyk

I'm not sure why the difference. Tried to hold the rpm down also. The trip was almost all freeway at 72mph without air and the windows closed.

ugly2

The only thing we didn't mention on towing was rear tire pressure. I ran mine at the manuals recommended 29front/41rear. As to your bounce I'd check your tounge weight. Sounds like you might want to increase it. Mines well over limit but it rides and handles great.

John

edunnett

I haven't actually TRIED outrunning the boxter or wrx yet but I'm just looking at the stats and I think I COULD. It could be that you are not working well with the turbo lag or that the engine was broken in to shift more conservatively. The maximum torque in the f-xt is reached at 3600 rpm and the max hp at 5600 rpm - try shifting at higher rpm and if you want to be impressed try driving at higher rpm. Turbos do lag. That's why I don't like driving the 2002 WRXs - they take a while to rev up to a satisfying rpm and I shift too conservatively to enjoy. I liked the F-XT because of the lower end torque which compensates for the turbo lag. I think it's a bit of getting used to how to drive it for performance. Try playing around with up shifting later and down shifting sooner - you might be more impressed. But not every car suites every driver. Hope you can have more fun.
ELissa

paddyk

Tire pressures 31front/42rear.
Not sure what the tounge weight was. What was yours?

Paddy
Westland MI

corkfish

Elissa,
      Bragging rights are nice, but the list you cited provides only theoretical performance figures. Look at the fine print, they're not actually instrumented testing. Yeah, on a cold day the 5 speed Forester may be capable of quarter mile times in the thirteens, but unlike rear wheel drive vehicles, you'll destroy your transmission in no time.

xtpremium

I posted a while back concerning the AT issue on my '04 XT. SOA sent a rep to inspect the noise made between shifts from 2nd to 3rd. He confimed there is a noise, but needed time to assess. I fnally called the dealer last Thursday to see what was taking so long. SOA continues to say there are no other reported problems with the AT. So what? I finally let the service dept have it and demanded that the transmission either be replaced or repaired, or I will simply leave it on the lot for good. It's going in this Thursday for an unspecified repair. Will advise further when the car is returned. Over a month and counting for this issue. Service???

ugly2

Your tounge weight should be between 8 nad 14% of your trailers gross weight. My gross wt. is somewhere around 2200 and I'm gussing my tounge wt. is between 260-280. So I'm a little over but like I said before it works fine for me. I've got everything I can load in the trailer behind the rear axle to help reduce my tounge wt. but I have two six volt batteries and two propane tanks up front to content with.

ateixeira

I'll defend Elissa here and say that a 0-60 clutch drop will harm any car, not just the XT.

Plus, if you look at 1/4 mile, it's still ahead of some stalwarts (GTO, 300C), and even when you look at rolling acceleration it embarasses some sports cars.

-juice

corkfish

All I know is that if I abused my XT the way I've abused my 1993 Sentra SE-R, no way I'd have over 100,000 miles on the tranny with no problems. Same with the Mustangs I've owned. The Car and Driver 5 to 60 start is more accurate. The XT did it in 6.6 seconds. For comparison, the Neon SRT did it in less than 6.

grove4

And I would be willing to bet the auto is more like low to mid sevens 5 to 60.

edunnett

NOOOOOOOOOOOO... you've ruined my day! :-( But I'm sticking to those stats when I talk to other crowds :-)
elissa

p0926

No need to fret, the FXT is still faster than 99% of the vehicles on the road today!

-Frank

ateixeira

Put 4 people in a Neon SRT and the Forester XT and the Subaru will win every time.

The Neon is lighter but can't match the Forester for torque when you really need to haul.

-juice

corkfish

Maybe, but the Neon SRT has just as much if not more torque. Advertised torque is 250 lbs.

bluesubie

XT has a dyno-proven 260 lb. ft. :-)

-Dennis

corkfish

And weighs 400 pounds more.

bluesubie

Check out C&D's stats. Pretty close:

'04 FXT = 5.3 0-60/13.8 1/4
'04 SRT = 5.3 0-60/13.9 1/4

The FXT will smoke the Neon in reliability.

-Dennis
Neon. Been there, done that. Not pretty

corkfish

'04 FXT = 5.3 0-60/13.8 1/4 Broken tranny after a few launches
'04 SRT = 5.3 0-60/13.9 1/4 All day long

lark6

So are you trying so say, to paraphrase an overworn phrase from another board, SRT4isfastAr?

Ed

ateixeira

I'd like to see the torque curves. Remember, the F-XT has 25% more displacement plus it has AVCS.

The Neon engine, off boost, is just a plain 2.0l with low compression.

All day long launches will fry the Neon's clutch, too. It might last a couple of runs longer than the F-XT, but all day, it'll fry.

-juice

corkfish

All I'm trying to say is that launching an XT the way Car and Driver did will destroy the tranny much quicker than rear drive counterparts. The street start is much more accurate and using the Neon as an example, it did a 5 mph to 60 mph start in less than 6 seconds while the XT did it in 6.6. I remember reading how Ford engineers wanted to see how long it would take to break the Cobra tranny and they gave up trying after something like 500 launches. It's a great car, I bought one, but the cheerleading is bit much. Again, I've owned ( and abused) several performance cars and would'nt dare try that kind of driving in my XT. Go check out Evo.net and see how many drag racers are destroying the tranny's in their Evo's.

bluesubie

But, the rest of the Neon will fall apart while the engine and tranny are still going. ;-)

-Dennis

corkfish

That's a good one. Agreed.

ateixeira

Neon is FWD, though. You'll get all kinds of axle hop.

The 2nd year model got a front LSD but that just puts more pressure on the transaxle.

I'm just not sure the Neon would fare any better.

The Mustang is a heavier duty RWD V8 so I'm not surprised.

-juice

edunnett

Has anyone done it? Do you have photos? I won't have to do it for MANY miles but I'm planning ahead. I don't see plug wires, I only see hard metal tubes, and they look very difficult to get to. Suggestions? Warnings?
Elissa

ateixeira

Oh boy, this is *not* easy.

The problem is there is very, very little clearance between the heads and the sides of the engine bay.

I used a 4" ratchet extension to get to the plugs, but once you loosen them, you can't get the ratchet out.

So you need a 4" and a 3" extension to make it reasonably easy. I basically had two 2" extensions so it was tough. I only scraped one or two knuckles, though. ;-)

At least the plugs have a long interval, I'm not looking forward to having to do that again.

-juice

edunnett

Did you need to use a knuckled socket? I've cracked porcelain on removal when using those darned things, so I hate them now. How did you get by the "wires"? Where did you find the distributor? I tried to find the plugs via tracing wires from the distributor but no luck! I was guessing even at where the plugs were - looked like they were in the engine block on the drivers side near the front of the car with metal tubes feeding into them. Maybe if I used a 4" extension with a ratchet to loosen, then while there is still clearance to remove the ratchet, switch to the knuckled socket?
Thanks Juice! I knew you'd be there for me! :-)
Elissa

ateixeira

Remember, it's a boxer (flat) engine. The spark plug wires come in on the very sides, low down where the heads are. Two on each side.

On the passenger side, I was doing the air filter anyway, so I just took the whole intake apart (easier than it sounds) and removed it.

On the driver side, you have to take the windshield washer reservoir out completely, to have good access. You'll likely spill some.

Maybe that's why you don't see much now. They are underneath all that stuff.

-juice

ateixeira

Couple more notes -

There is no distributor per se, it's electronic ignition, distributorless. Be glad, that's lower maintenance.

FWIW, I believe the metal tubes you describe are the exhaust headers. All the intake stuff is on the top end basically.

-juice

edunnett

Don't you have a '98 Forester? I did the plugs in my '01 and yes, it was a pain but do-able. I'm thinking in the turbo engines they are utterly inaccessible. Did you change them in the XT specifically?

ateixeira

Nope, but it's still an EJ25 series engine (EJ255 for your 2001, EJ257 for your XT), so they should be in the same position.

There is probably more plumbing so access might just be a little tougher.

-juice

xtpremium

4th drop off and pick up at the dealer today in 5+ weeks. AT on my '04 FXT has them stumped, and me upset. Today was a pressure test (normal) and another test that was "normal" even though that grinding noise still sounds crystal clear between 2nd and 3rd. So now what? SOA will let me know what they want to do next. Until then I am told that the dealer has to "go by the book" and can only move when SOA says "OK".

Wow.

Am I nuts, or shouldn't this have been resolved by now in favor of the customer? Fortunately, I live in CT, and we have a Lemon Law, which I am rapidly approaching qualification for.

edunnett

you say grinding between 2nd and 3rd on an automatic transmission? have they checked the AT fluid for proper fluid and level and temperature? have they opened the tranny up to see if the gears are in good shape?

looks like the lemon law in CT is much better than in CA, and after four visits (or 30 days out of service) you DO qualify. in CA, they are only required to refund you a pro-rated amount based upon how many miles you've put on the car - for my car, that comes out below blue book value! follow instructions in your owners manual for preceding - as written notice to subaru may be required before you can begin.

xtpremium

Believe it or not they have yet to open her up, even though the dealership's technician, after I drove him around so that he'd hear it a month ago, and said "oh, that's gears grinding in there somewhere". Why on earth SOA deems it reasonable to try to diagnose it further at this point from over the phone completely boggles my mind. I've got 8,000 miles on it, and wonder when the transmission is simply going to call "no mas" and end my ride.

Will continue to post until resolved as I feel that all FXT owners need to know how on owner is being treated by "HQ". Thanks for the tip.

miamixt

Sure it's a first year Model Car, now entering it's 2nd year, however these issues have been brought up before. Will a Rack & Pinion replacement solve my problems? Plus there is no doubt the Automatic Transmission might be troubled!

ateixeira

Under Lemon Law arbitration you will win - but about 3 years from now. And you'll be miserable for those 3 years.

It seems like the dealer is at least trying. I agree this is very unsatisfying but I think it's actually the lesser harm. I hope they are at least being pleasant about it.

I'd keep calling 800-SUBARU3 and keep insisting that they open it up to examine what damage has occured and what might be causing the grinding. Clearly this is not a problem that will go away.

-juice

ateixeira

Tom - hang in there, I'm going to ask Patti to take a look at your case. She can't get involved directly but maybe she can pull a few strings and get the ball rolling.

-juice

ateixeira

Yep, found it, stay tuned.

-juice

edunnett

This really really depresses me... I had an '01 manual forester that needed a new first gear and first gear synchro at 30K miles. Other tranny problems cropped up related to a MT. I developed the opinion that the Subaru MTs are not robust enough to handle the weight and AWD like the ATs can. SO I bought an AT Forester XT a couple months ago. If it turns out this thing has gear synchro problems as well, I think I'm bailing and getting a Honda or Toyota :-(.

Did someone say the AT's are plagued????? I haven't read of other issues with them MiamiXT - what were you referring to??
Elissa

p0926

Not to rub it in but my MT is doing fine

Seriously though, I hardly think there's cause to panic. Besides, Toyota and Honda have both had to deal with widespread major mechanical problems recently (engine sludge and a poorly designed transmission respectively) so there's no such thing as a guaranteed problem-free car.

-Frank

ateixeira

Wait a sec - one (or two) bad tranny does not a pattern make, and besides, how many CR-V engine fires have their been? 30+ so far?

And I'd rather have a little grinding than a Car-B-Q.

Honda is denying any problem, while I just heard from Patti that she's already spoken to the new dealer manager (they're in transition) plus left a message for Tom.

-juice

edunnett

how many CR-V engine fires have their been? 30+ so far?

He he he he... I think the count is more like 40 but not sure. I wouldn't get a CR-V if I had to go 'round again though. It's just that I still haven't recovered my trust from the $6K+ worth of warranty work to my '01 Forester. And bad synchros is just a bit too familiar for me. Hoping this is an isolated incident but what did MiamiXT mean by saying the trannies are plagued?

miamixt

If you go back a 1000 Posts or so you can read from StuHall who had a really bad problem with his A/T. It would slip out of Gear on the Highway. He got a Replacement XT, and then was sworn to silence Someone else posted similar Transmission Problems. While I have experienced NO Grinding of Gears, I had opened a Case with SOA about the identical Transmission problem, although my XT's A/T has only failed at low Speeds (not catching a Gear) I'm sure it's more Computer related, however knowing these components were provided by Mitsubishi has not made me feel better. Now off to have my Rack & Pinion replaced on Monday, the XT has made a clunking noise from the both sides of the front Axle while moving the Wheel at very slow speeds. Wish me luck, this new Subaru Dealer specializes in Oil Changes!

xtpremium

Juice- thanks for the attention to detail. Yes, I spoke with Patti today. And if Patti is reading this, Thanks to you too. SOA has stepped up to the plate and affirmed why I purchased my second Subaru. Attention to detail and customer service are at the core of a manufacturer's commitment to quality. I have been assured that my AT problem will be resolve as soon as possible.

Regards,

Tom