Subaru XT Turbo Forester

bluesubie

The HAL climate control in full auto gradually brought the cabin temp down to the preset temp (approx. 71 F based on eyeballing - hard to say with all the gradations b/n 65 and 75) in about 10 minutes.

Mine has never regulated that fast in heat or a/c mode. Sounds like they fiddled with some sensors/fans. Very interesting on the VDC section.

Loosh, you can make the stereo brighter with the lights on by pushing and holding in the stereo power button. :-)

-Dennis

subearu

and the HVAC lights can be brightened as well by holding one of the buttons (IIRC small print BRIGHT)

Maybe the LLBean Forester will have VDC?

-Brian

ateixeira

Right now the LL Beans are pricey, IIRC Fitz had them for $25k. You can get a 2004 XT PP for less.

-juice

lucien2

Dennis- knew that!

Parking Lights- I actually helped the phone center at Valley Motors Subaru with that one. I was waiting to pay my bill and heard the girl talking to a customer who was scheduling a visit for defective lights. She put him on hold for a moment, and I told her to ask the customer to check that switch. Problem solved!

pon1

Ed:

How is the new improved keyless entry?? The cabin filter?? The immobilizer???

(kind of lame questions, but I'm eager for any news on the 05 - it's unlikley that any of the magazines will bother to test the 05 XT, so you're the only source.....)

JP

PS: Gotta love that Crystal Gray, it looks sooo right on the FXT - there's one on the lot on my way home that I cant drive past without stopping and getting out for another look.

njswamplands

'04 XT with auto and PP for $23,274.

ok that one hurt.....

atlgaxt

What a moron I am. In the excitement to get an XT (and we needed a new car at that time) we bought a loaded XT PP last October and paid a couple of hundred over invoice, which stupid me thought was fair.

Now I see posts that they are selling for thousands below invoice new, which means my less than year old XT which retail stickered for about $29k is probably worth about $15k (If you do not think that is right, let me ask you, why pay more than $15k for a used one if you can get new ones for $21-$23, depending upon equipment?). Talk about depreciating like a rock. Fortunatey we were not planning on selling it before the end of this decade, but if that sucker gets wrecked or totalled, we will be out a ton of money. Better get that gap insurance.

I thought Subarus were supposed to hold their value. Only Hondas and Toyotas from here on out for me. Or I guess I should have bought something with more staying power, like maybe a Kia Rio or a Chevy Cavalier. At least I still like the car...

samiam_68

The reason for '04 Foresters being highly discounted is the coming '05 models of both the Forester and especially the Legacy / Outback and the push to move them off the lot.

The '05 Legacy / Outback high level trim models are so grossly overpriced, that they are pushing the Foresters waaaay down in price, especially the '04's.

I predict Subaru will be stuck with a ton of unsold LGT's and OBXT's due to the ridiculous pricing. If you look around the dealer lot, sticker shock is the only way to describe the reaction.

The OBXT LTD Auto is ABOVE $33K!!! The LGT LTD is over $32K!!! What is Subaru thinking? Are they trying to price themselves out of their own market?

Expect big fire sales coming pretty soon at your local Subaru dealer...

volkov

Those are 04 clearance prices, the moment they are gone, the comparison will be with new 05's going for $25k+. Discount for a 1 year old Subie relative to new is nowhere near $10k (25-15k as you postulated). If it was, I'd have bought used. Can you find a FXT listed for sale anywhere? I'd be very suprised to find one for less than $20k asking price. A month from now, those 04's will be worth the same as yours, but you got 6 months more fun and an extra winter that they didn't.

atlgaxt

and lose 30% of your value just by getting the title and losing all the financing and other advantages of a new car. That puts a $21K to $23K FXT at $14,700 to $16,100. Plus 13,000 miles we have driven it. We would be lucky to get $15k. Trade much lower. That initial depreciation of buying a new car is bad enough without current brand new cars selling for five thousand less than what I paid ten months ago (which was a couple hundred over invoice). That new Forester XT is nice and I love it, but I not buying a car in its first year anymore, as you apparently can get killed that way. I hope my wife does not see any of those ads, or my marriage is probably toast.

tidester

I hope my wife does not see any of those ads, or my marriage is probably toast.

If your marriage is that fragile it's probably already in the toaster! ;-)

tidester, host

corkfish

I bought a base XT 5 speed in June 03 and paid over $24K for it. Even here in CT where deals are kind of tough, I overpaid quite a bit. At the time the car was fresh and the dealers weren't budging. Always pays to wait, but after driving it I had to get one.

rebeccah

The XT model i beleive ... the "upper" one, w/ the Premium package. The hype about the "cash back award" is pretty true i guess ... i found a brand new one, which he SAID ... we shall see what "extra charges" end up in there ... it would be about 22K. I may add leather for an extra $1000. Here on Edmunds it appears the price should be about 25K, so i guess this is a good deal.

Couple of questions for you all:
1. I hear there is no armrest. I would hate that! Can you order one to come w/ it?

2. How is the room in the back area? I have 2 90# Labs ...

3. The other 2 vehicles i am MAYBE considering are the 2004 Honda CRV or Toyota Rav 4. Did anyone compare w/ these? I REALLY like a "roomy" feeling. Need room for 2 big dogs & 2 car seats & beach stuff!

4. Also, do you think i have to move fast to get this deal on the 2004's? Will they stop the deal? or will they sell out likely? I was thinking of not buying till Oct 2004.

Thanks for any advice, Rebecca

subearu

I have an '04 XT MT w/o the armrest extension (it's an option you can add before or after purchase). I personally don't like it, so I didn't get one in mine. Others love it. You should try to find an XT on the lot that has it to see if suits your needs.

2 90# labs might be a bit much for the trunk of any of these small SUVs. They might fit back there, but likely won't have much room to move around.

Waiting until October 2004 might put you out of reach of any remaining '04's. You'd have to look at an '05 then.

Did anyone compare with the CRV and RAV4? There's just a *few* threads here on Edmunds regarding them, use the search on the left. ;-) Naturally, we're biased here and would suggest you to get the XT, it's a budget performance rocket in sheep clothing.

-Brian

boomerbubba

I am daydreaming seriously about buying a new 2004 XT MT from a remote dealer and then driving it home almost immediately -- a little over 1,600 miles.

Is it a bad idea to do this much highway driving during the break-in period?

I do think I could make much of the trip off the interstates to allow some speed variation. My understanding of break-ins generally is that it is best to avoid both high and monotonous speeds with a brand-new car.

Any advice?

amyash

I've got a 2002 S Prem w/20,800 miles. Brought it in to a local dealer to have something checked out, & saw that they were selling a demo (don't know how many miles yet, but was told it was used by the owner of the dealership) 2004 turbo for $23k. From what I've seen so far, its got a leather interior, tinted windows, beautiful rims & looks to be in great shape. The payoff on my Forester is approximately $13K. Do I consider trading up to the turbo? Without actually running numbers, dealership thinks that it'll be close to a wash, moneywise. Obviously, I need to get more info (standard or auto, miles, etc.) but what do y'all think?

Or...if I'm that interested, do I just look for a new 2004 and not deal w/the potential problems of a "used" car?

Thanks.

amyash

What are the add'l costs of owning a turbo (gas, etc.)? How much more does one need to budget per year? How's mileage?

Thanks, again.

alyosha73

Previous page has posts about Turbo gas budget - about 300$ more per year (count - premuim gas (not required), lower gas mileage).

alyosha73

Whatever you do - do not test drive FXT, after the test drive you will have no choice but to buy it. As for the deal? Fitzmall has NEW (not demos) FXT premuim for $23300, they are no haggle, no worries. Phone in, give them CC for deposit, come over and drive away home. It is way better than demo model for 23300, where you get miles, less warranty, financed as used car. Fitzmall quoting 5.9% financing, so you can probably do better with your own financing. If you deal includes unpaid trade-in- all bets are off, in most cases you will get taken for the ride. Price of trade-in shows at 16000 at kbb, if I am not mistaken, so this seems doable. However there is no free lunch, it is after you paid of your car that you begin to enjoy no payments stage. When you trade-in you sign yourself over for another couple of years.

kens

The key to a proper break in is more about RPM variation than speed. There's nothing wrong with a highway break in as long as you can vary the RPMs all the way up to around 4000RPM. Don't use cruise control, alternate between the fast and slow lanes and change gears if possible. Also, don't worry about occasional excursions beyond 4000RPM -- it's just a guideline.

If anything, a lot of the break in happens within the first 50 miles of your vehicle. A good chunk of that has already happened at the factory and during it's delivery process.

There's a good article on engine break in at www.overboost.com.

The nice thing about such a long trip is that at the end of it, you're done!

Ken

amyash

Specs: demo is a 2004 Gold turbo w/black leather interior, approx 5000 miles, upgraded 17" rims, sunroof, tinted windows, rear bumper cover, cargo tray, splash guards, auto dimming mirror w/compass, tailpipe cover & wheel locks. If I buy, dealer will throw in spoiler.

Cost: $23k.

Worked up tentative numbers. Dealer will give me $14k for my 2002 Forester S Prem (only 20,900 miles; also has spoiler, front brush guard & rear diff cover). After the pay-off of the 2002, I'll get the 2004 turbo for virtually the same monthly payments, if not a bit less, BUT (and a very big BUT), I'm almost 1/2 done paying off the 2002. Buying the 2004 will begin the 60 month financing again.

My two concerns: I'll have paid a ridiculous amount for using my 2002 for a little over 2 years and I'm not crazy about the color (gold).

I'm inclined to pass. Any comments or suggestions (Alyosha73: thanks for your comments re: my initial posts)?

Thanks.

samiam_68

The question you should ask yourself is - if there's nothing wrong with your 2002, why are you upgrading? It's a big hit financially - do you really NEED to upgrade to a 2004? If I were in your shoes, I'd drive the old Forester for a few more years, then sell it privately and get a better deal than a trade in.

subewannabe

Two big labs are a lot for any car, but the boxy cargo area of the Forester and the design of the new OEM dog barrier give those pups maximum space...they will be okay if they like each other. The concern I see is the 2 car seats. Depending on how long your driver and passenger legs are, 2 car seats could be a squeeze since neither will be in the center, which is the roomiest location. Also , the anchors for the car seat tethers are near the rear of the cargo area roof, so your Labs might chew on the tethers if they get bored back there. The optional armrest extension is an improvement, but it is still located too far back for many short to average drivers to be useful.
    If you're happy with your 2002 Forester, dont drive an XT, just be happy with the 02. One irresistable push on the gas pedal in an XT and its all over....and I love my Sierra Gold XT..doesnt show dirt and shines up very nice.

Mark

boomerbubba

Thanks for your informative reply.

The issue ends up being moot for me, as a local dealer essentially matched the remote dealer's price this afternoon. So I took delivery immediately at 262 miles. (I more than doubled that this very day, mostly on varied country roads.)

Wow! Like the guy in City Slickers said, "I'm as happy as a puppy with two peters."

edunnett

RE: Your 2002. I just sold my manual transmission 2001 Forester S Premium Package with 55,000 miles on it privately for $14,000 even - it did not have the extras that yours does. It would be a shame for you to trade your '02 with 21K for the same amount now, don't you think? ;-)

RE: the upgrade: I then bought the '04 Forester Turbo. I had to after test driving it. I regret it a tiny bit... I didn't get the moon roof. If you have the PP now, you NEED to get the moon roof in the new car. So I miss that. I also am constantly frustrated by the traffic in my way. I want to be on the road with nothing but Porsche Boxters and Ford Mustang GTs to kick the asses of. But alas, I'm mixed up with huge SUV's and minivans and can't really open up my car and have fun the way I imagined. I also hate that my gas mileage dropped from 25mpg of 87 octane to 21mpg with 91 octane. There are other little things that annoy me about the '04 that take some getting used to - the radio buttons are harder to use when you are driving than the earlier model, the auto climate control system is the bane of my existence, you need to use your LEFT hand to pull down the moon roof visors, the uphulstary isn't as "cushy" as the moquet, a few other things. Don't get my wrong, I do love my car... but if I were you'd I'd hold off a bit and get more value out of the '02 - that's an awesome car too!

corkfish

I can't say that the XT will "kick the [non-permissible content removed]" of Mustangs or boxsters, but I did find out on my vacation that it will smoke a Jaguar XK8 with no problem! Like the commercial says, 2004 Forester XT 5 speed: $24,000. Look on the face of an obnoxious, egotistical sports car driver as you blow by them: priceless.

bobshere1

I've had the Yakima Basket Case with 3 bike mounts off my FXT now for a while. I thought I'd see some "remarkable" (as in worthy of remark) gas savings with it off. That didn't happen. While the really bad noise level on the highway with the moonroof open was better without the rack, I find I don't like using the moonroof on the highway in any case. Too noisy. So the rack goes back on....

       Cheers,

            Bob

ateixeira

If anyone wants to sell their used XT for $15k, I'll pay cash today for it. The color and tranny wouldn't even matter to me at that price!

No way will resale be that bad. Yes, some folks here bought early on before end-of-year clearances kicked in, plus rebates, but you've also enjoyed the vehicle for a full year.

Plus, now you'd have to get a 2004 knowing full well the improvements the 2005s offer. Ed couldn't resist, for instance, and still got a 2005.

The market is just hyper-competitive and Subaru had to clear out the 2004s. Look at the Honda Odyssey - what was previously commanding markups is now being discounted. My cousin paid $25k for an LX, now you can get those for $22k. Her $25k would have bought an EX with leather and a DVD player!

I don't have the heart to tell her. ;-)

So even Honda is forced to clear out product. This is nothing new, it's always best to buy at the end of the model year, I'm sure most here were aware of that.

-juice

lfdal

What juice says - plus in the NE if you buy at this time of year, you might get a car that's sat on the lot for the entire winter. Not likely with the Forester, but still its worth checking the mfg date and factoring in 6-9 months of "lot rot"

Another 0.02

Larry

lfdal

Still using a cup every 2-3 weeks. Doesn't appear to be going on the ground or in the oil. Will be sending the oil out to Blackstone anyway as I'm still tinkering with finding a well performing oil that agrees with the engine.

Larry

ateixeira

And flat-spotted tires. Or a lot of test drive miles.

There are trade-offs. A big concern to me would be the test drive miles. And a 2004 will be worth less than a 2005 that you bought on the same day no matter how you slice it.

-juice

parigi

Rebecca, I thought about -- and just bought -- an '04 XT. My thoughts: From prices I see in Massachusetts, $22,000 seems to be the going rate for a manual-transmission XT. But they're going fast. I myself was going to wait until October until I found out that only two dealers out of 12 in eastern Massachusetts had a black XT with manual transmission (my wife the artist wouldn't consider any of the other colors available).
About the armrest, it's actually more of an elbow rest, and it's useful. At the end of the day, most of the options can be retrofitted, as the XT comes loaded. Most of them, like the cargo tray, for example, cost about $50. From the dealers I talked to, many will throw in a few options for free just to seal the deal.
With two car seats and two big dogs, it'll be tight. You may have to move up a notch beyond the Forester/CR-V/RAV4. I suggest bringing the kitchen sink to dealer and seeing if everyone and everything fits.
The advantage of the XT is its engine -- you will not feel bogged down when loaded down, not when merging with highway traffic, leaving a camp site or driving up a mountain. To me, apart from the other advantage of letting her rip just for grins, that's what sold me.
--Parigi

ateixeira

You're right, they are going fast. The 2004s are quickly disappearing out of inventory. I'm sure people are snapping up the good deals, so selection right now is getting sorta thin.

You might not get the color/options you want. Heck, you might not even be able to find the tranny you want.

Congrats Parigi. And when the normally aspirated competition is wheezing for thin air up in those mountains, your turbo will be making full power and passing them with ease.

I had a '91 Escort GT with 127hp, it was peppy off the line, but one time I was up in the mountains using cruise control going up a hill, and it actually could not maintain its speed! Eventually it just gave up and disabled the cruise. I really lost faith in the car at that point, it was so disappointing.

I seriously doubt the XT would have such troubles.

-juice

ugly2

Made my first trip with the XT and our tent trailer we just got. Gross wt. of the trailer, app. 2200lbs. Tounge wt. was somewhere between 250 & 275. It handled, pulled and stopped great. The only thing I'm doing different is shifting earlier so as not to strain things and switching to synthetic this week. The bad news is the 0-60 time ain't what it used to be but the mpg was 20.5!

ateixeira

That's great. I got only 17.3 mpg towing about 1500 lbs in a trailer in my non-turbo Forester. Maybe the turbo doesn't have to strain as hard to pull that load.

-juice

lark6

75% of this driving has been stop-and-go (0-75-0-55-0-60-35-0-70 etc.) on the PA Turnpike and US 1, the rest a mix between in town and relatively smooth (i.e., steady flow) highway driving. Drumroll please...

20.9 mpg.

Not bad for starters.

Ed

ateixeira

That's very promising, green engine, automatic too.

-juice

njswamplands

on my fxt but average 20mpg on '04 odyssey

pon1

on tank # 1 is great, hopefully that's down to improved-for-05 gas mileage. From your previous post, CC/HAL appears to be working better(??)...maybe they listened to us?

JP

ateixeira

Swampy you gotta stay off the boost! That right-most pedal obeys your commands! LOL

-juice

p0926

I just got back from a 1600 mile trip and the mpg varied from 23.4 (going into a headwind) to 26.5 (driving on rural roads). At 15k miles, my average mpg now stands at 24 even.

-Frank

ateixeira

What, did you go down hill both ways? Windows closed with no A/C at 50mph? Did you get out and push?

We want to know your secrets, Frank! LOL

-juice

njswamplands

i am not mashing the pedal at all. driving fairly conservatively except for that killer merge which is usually just once a day. it seems to be related to all these mountain roads as the highway only numbers are around the 23-24 range.

without a boost guage i cant tell if the boost is kicking in hard going up these hills.

ateixeira

I'm just giving you a hard time.

Try driving it like you were trying to break the world record for mileage. If that helps a lot, incorporate some of those techniques in your day-to-day driving.

-juice

njswamplands

ateixeira

Just stay out of the left lane and take the back roads, they're more fun neeways.

-juice

hypov

I think that's where swampy runs into the granny with purple hair )

-Dave

njswamplands

you should see these nuts in their monster suvs on the backroads. they think they can handle the road and always seem to crossover the double line.

safer in multilane

ateixeira

Imagine when you combine the two - back-road granny in a monster SUV! Yikes!

-juice

subewannabe

Folks in their seventies and eighties are a major demographic in my area, and most of them retired here from a bigger city somewhere and they seem to lack a basic understanding of curved shapes. Most of them are driving Buicks and Caddy's, but the ones that really flabbergast me are the back road grandaddies with more cents than sense, driving their Boxters, S4's , M3's and the like back and forth between their retirement condo and the Fresh Market in town, never exceeding 2000 rpm. The only dealer in this end of Asheville is Porsche-Audi-Buick-VW, and he makes a killing servicing those cars. Blue hairs make me crazy with their driving, but I admire their desire to be law-abiding...riding that brake on the downhill to keep it under 35 mph.
   The moonroof has been my salvation in those situations...I just pop it wide open, throw a Springsteen CD in,relax and enjoy the sunshine. A curvy road in the country at 35 mph is always better than a freeway jammed with semi rigs and monster trucks at any speed.

Mark