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Comments
PS: I hardly ever see FXTs on the street....but my buddy has one (at my suggestion) and now turns out our CEO's wife also has an FXT. The envy is growing but at least ours is ordered.
-juice
Handling can be much improved with better tires and a ~ $100 swaybar mod. The mpg's is just something to factor in and live with if you want FXT Zoom Zoom. This car is a rocket. I don't mind paying a few hundred more a year at the pump for this kind of fun! With the mods my FXT handles like a good sports car. I love it!
I wouldn't pay even $500 more for the MINOR '05 changes, let alone thousands. Go for the '04 !!!
Cheers,
Bob
Yesterday, I drove an Accord V-6 (my other choice), then drove the 2004 Forester XT. The XT seems as quick or quicker than the V-6 Accord, but is an absolute rocket compared to my wife's Legacy L. The Accord's interior was "classier" and it rode well. The rear seat was also larger. The Forester rode higher, the driver's seat was more comfortable, the cabin seemed more spacious, and rear/side visibility was better than the Accord. Also, the center console of the Accord restricted moving my right knee to the side - the Forester was more accommodating.
Bob - Your comment about the "bugs" in the 2004 being minor annoyances is reassuring. It seems that saving about $3000 over a 2005 will be well worth it. Your point about the tires is echoed by many. I asked the dealer if he could pull off the Geolanders, give me some sort of credit, then mount a set of Firestone Affinitys or ContiExtremeContacts for an additional, resonable cost. They are coming up with some numbers for me.
Miamixt - After looking at the cloth vs leather interior, I agree with you - I can live without the leather and sunroof, and save over $1500 in the process. As for power, I'm not into racing from green lights, etc., but being able to merge into an 80 mph stream of cars and big trucks on the highway, and for the hilly terrain of NH, I need more than the 165 hp provides.
Samiam 68 - The mpg is a concern - a 30 mile commute vs a 150 mile commute could be a big factor in the decision. As it is now, I never know where my new clients will be located. I would give up about 40% of that abundant turbo power for an extra 3 or 4 mpg, but it obviously doesn't work that way.
BTW, there is a wide fluctuation in prices around here. Some dealers are still trying to get several hundred $$ over invoice while the 2005 models are sitting next to the 2004. The best price the dealer I went to will do is $24,300 on the XT auto with premium package, and 22,800 for the XT with auto trans.
Thanks again to everyone.
- Steve
If it's cash, or if there's no finance benefit, then spend the extra few hundred on the 05 - it's a better financial decision.
Mileage for the '05 FXTs is:
19/24 Manual
20/23 Automatic
Just updated my fuel chart and the mpg avg for my 04 now stands at 23.9 mpg (mostly hwy miles).
-Frank
P.S. Over 12k on the odo and still nary a rattle to be heard.
P.P.S. Having driven an XT for 6 months, there's no way I could now go back to driving an XS.
RATTLES: Everywhere, no question about it! Road Noise, way more than the CRV.
Overall the Subaru Forester XT is a great Budget Buy Turbo SUV.
Also do I need a guard for the hood scoop? Just curious?
Appreciate any replies.
Enjoy your XT !! Deadeye
No complaints either on the XT's handling capabilities which I find nimble & predictable. Sure, I've owned sports cars & sports sedans that could post a little better score on lateral acceleration but they would beat me to death on anything but a glass smooth surface. I like the XT's long travel suspension.
The XT's advantage is in the sum of its parts that work well together in a variety of situations & on diverse roads / terrain rather effortlessly...if only the straight line acceleration wasn't so linear...
Added Security Prices are posted at most Dealer Websites, also posted here by me (please go back 1000 posts or so to 9/03). How could I quote the Prices, because they are all the Same, an Insurance Product regulated by your State, issued mostly by Minnehoma Insurance Company for Subaru, and in a few States under the Subaru Name. I went with the Gold Plus plan with a Zero Deductible, and now am in the process of Cancelling my Warranty. It's great full Coverage for those who know they will have the Car for 6 to 8 Years. Do not buy any Policy online! And while the Forester is fast, and the AWD is awesome, it is a very light SUV, and is prone to sliding which can cause problems, especially with the small Geolanders.
The FXT has been perfect so far, not a hiccup, a rattle or a squeak. Getting about 23.5 mpg, mostly highway at 75-80 with the AC running and a full load of four folks and their luggage. The kids have no complaints about the back seat after several 6-8 hour trips. The front passenger seat is a little hard after that long, which is part of my wife's desire to get behind the wheel! I dont understand the complaints about HAL 6000...I guess I'm used to the similar operations of the Audi automatic climate control...you just gotta push the buttons in the right order.
I am a big believer that the most important safety features are those that help you AVOID accidents, and so far the FXT has given us outstanding acceleration to get around big tractor-trailer rigs, outstanding braking to avoid gawkers not paying attention in construction-related traffic jams and the great "greenhouse" visibility has enabled me to see and avoid running over a pedestrian who came from behind me along the passenger side and ran across in front of me at a stoplight after the light had already turned green.
I changed the oil and filter at 3700 miles and went with Mobil 1 synthetic. The oil filter wrench is a tight fit on the OEM filter, but I'm hoping it will expand a tad. Its great to have enough clearance to change the oil and filter without jacking up the car! I am going to make a bug screen for my intercooler ...already sucked in a few butterflies that break up and have to be vacuumed out of the heat exchanger fins.
Has anybody come up with a front armrest extension that comes up high enough and far enough forward to actually function as an armrest? Thats one thing I miss on those long trips.
Mark
Yeah, the auto climate control is pretty bizarre at times but that wasn't even an option I cared about having in the first place.
And I'm no fan of the OEM Geolander tires, but they'll do until the tread is gone (looks like around 45,000 miles for me) - it's certainly not dangerous driving it spiritedly on them, assuming both driver competance & reasonable air pressure (I run 35-36 psi for a decent balance between ride quality & handling). When I buy tires the Geolanders will most definitely *not* be something I consider
There seems to be a rather large variation between individual XT's in terms of reported fuel economy, whether it's the car or driver I can't say - mine is on the higher end, but my driving is also rather more highway than most. Drove 1500 miles between Tuesday & Thursday of this week, averaged 26 mpg (high tank was 27, low was 25.5) - 99% highway, cruising at 70-75 with the a/c running. Nothing to complain about there...
My average during my normal 76 mile daily round trip commute is 22-23 mpg, closer to 23 these days as it seemed to improve a bit once I passed the 15,000 mile mark. That's also when I switched to synthetic oil, don't know if it was a coincidence or not though.
I've also had the first thing break this last week - strangely enough, the cruise control will randomly disconnect at speeds over about 73 mph. Anything under that is fine - will be talking to the dealer about it this week. Not a big deal...
mark
Good lord this is a fun car to drive!
Huh? You call those Bugs? Sounds more like a wish list to me. And you knew the FXT was missing them yet you bought it anyway.
6 Disc CD Changer that WILL jam someday instead of a 1 disc MP3 Unit
Anecdotal perhaps but in almost 4 years of ownership mine never caused a problem.
VERY marginal Emergency handling( great in a straight line!), Geolanders small & horrible Tires.
As has been pointed out it ain't no sports car but I dare say it handles better than just about any other SUV/tall wagon. Two notable exceptions being the $40k BMW X3 and the even more expensive Porsche Cayenne.
RATTLES: Everywhere, no question about it! Road Noise, way more than the CRV... Everything from the Rear Metal License Plate, to the back Seatbelt holder, located in the Roof, to the In Dashboard Storage area that snaps,crackles & pops, you would think it's Plastic, oh it is Plastic. Even some have reported the CD's in the Changer Rattle, and have you put any Spare Change in the Fuse box/Coin holder, it Rattles, the Coins Rattle, and the 2 overhead Bins for Glasses etc, yes they Rattle
Loose change rattling? Sun glasses in the overhead bin rattling around? Metal license plate rattling? Well sure, if I take a speed bump at 30 mph! Which by the way you can in the Forester! Fairly smoothly even. My point is that these type things will rattle in just about any vehicle. When I think of annoying rattles, I think of body parts and trim pieces that aren't suppose to rattle and my Forester has zero of those. Not loose change for goodness sake! Heck, something like that would even rattle in a Lexus or Acura.
Overall the Subaru Forester XT is a great Budget Buy Turbo SUV.
Finally something we agree on :-)
-Frank
Owen
elissa
I wouldn't even go so far as to say the X3 outhandles it, having driven both. I searched for my post in the XT v. X3 v. FX35 forum and, though ego tells me I shouldn't quote myself, I've copied what I wrote in pertinent part:
The X3's steering was much heavier and gave more feedback than the Forester's. At highway speeds this was a plus but around town and in the parking lot the heaviness felt artificially notchy - not unlike a force feedback steering wheel used for video games. The Forester's steering felt much lighter, too light in fact.
Handling was a surprise to me. The X3 handles better than I expected; though there's a good bit of body lean its suspension and tires kept it in its place. The sensation I got was the one I get in my current Forester running its plus-one UHP A/S wheel and tire combo. The Forester XT leans a good bit too and its OEM tires are a hindrance, but those tires also were better at letting me know when the XT was nearing its limits than those on the X3. Ultimately though the Subaru felt a lot nimbler to me than the BMW, a lot easier to toss through the twisties. The cynic might say that was due to my familiarity with the car, but I'm inclined to believe that it's a combination of lighter weight, lower center of gravity and shorter wheelbase that gives the Forester the nod.
The Forester felt more softly sprung, which didn't harm its handling vs. the X3 as much as it improved its ride. Over rough pavement peppered with ruts and potholes the Subaru gets the nod.
Ed
1) The turbo is still a blast. It's great to not have to worry about merging, changing lanes, or when the need arises, passing.
2) Subaru AWD - I'll never have another car in the NE that's not AWD, be it a Subaru or something else
3) Fit and Finish - my wife's 03 OBW is way better put together. Period. Quieter, less road noise, more upscale feeling inside.
4) Around town mileage - in pure stop and go - and mine is stop and go - 100ft, stop, go 200 ft, stop, go 50 feet stop ..... you get the idea - not quite 17 mpg. Less than my 6 banger 200hp Sable got.
5) Highway mileage with "summer" gas is about 24 and for someone who maintains a steady 75-80 mph with HAL in auto mode I can't complain.
6) Stereo - on the high end of good, not great, but very decent for an OEM system. It is starting to sound like I'm losing a channel or speaker. Given my dealer's lack of hearing, I'll wait until its totally dead, or I can't stand it anymore - whichever comes first.
7) Dash crackle - and I bet it doesn't get cold enough for Frank to hear this. I say that because when the outside air is above 50 my dash totally ceases to make the snap-crackle-pop sound that I was blessed with for every mile of every day of the entire winter. Annoying enough that my wife refuses to ride in the car during those times and insists we take the OBW for around town. We still take the XT for longer trips however because we both feel its extra power adds a significant safety margin.
8) Rattles overall - passenger door, under dash, in engine compartment.
9) Tires - with 8500 on the Geolanders (I had snows on for 5 of the 13.5K miles) they're already starting to get "squeally" <- new word? around corners. And yes, the inflation is correct. And no, I don't take my corners on 2 wheels :<).
9) HAL - much easier to live with in the summer vs the winter. The AC has no trouble keeping up with the 80 degree and one 90 degree day we've had so far this year.
10)Auto tranny - another gear would be great.
11)Ease of DIY maintenance - very easy.
So far the only issues mechanically I've had with mine were a misaligned steering column when I got the car, and now an issue with an antifreeze reservoir that slowly drops. Not terribly bad, but I've added a pint in the last month. The car goes in for a pressure check this week.
On a scale of 10 - I'd give it an 8.5. I'd give the 03 OBW with 19k on it a 9.
As regards the new Legacy/OBW with turbo's, Subaru is starting to move out of my price point.
Like I said, my 0.02.
1) The turbo is still a blast. It's great to not have to worry about merging, changing lanes, or when the need arises, passing. concur
2) Subaru AWD - I'll never have another car in the NE that's not AWD, be it a Subaru or something else concur
3) Fit and Finish - my wife's 03 OBW is way better put together. Period. Quieter, less road noise, more upscale feeling inside. my honday odyssey has less road noise, not upscale, a small bit quieter, less fun to drive, great for home depot and always the car used when i drive with the family. subaru needs to compete in larger car segment also before i would shop them for the family hauler.
4) Around town mileage - in pure stop and go - and mine is stop and go - 100ft, stop, go 200 ft, stop, go 50 feet stop ..... you get the idea - not quite 17 mpg. Less than my 6 banger 200hp Sable got. my drive is more rural, lots of hills, curves with speeds usually in the low range ( 15-40 ) and getting around 15mpg.
5) Highway mileage with "summer" gas is about 24 and for someone who maintains a steady 75-80 mph with HAL in auto mode I can't complain. the one time i did take it on a family trip ( it was snowing so the odyssey stayed home, got 24mpg in the snow, outstanding ).
6) Stereo - on the high end of good, not great, but very decent for an OEM system. It is starting to sound like I'm losing a channel or speaker. Given my dealer's lack of hearing, I'll wait until its totally dead, or I can't stand it anymore - whichever comes first. i concur on the decent OEM system. no problems.
7) Dash crackle - and I bet it doesn't get cold enough for Frank to hear this. I say that because when the outside air is above 50 my dash totally ceases to make the snap-crackle-pop sound that I was blessed with for every mile of every day of the entire winter. Annoying enough that my wife refuses to ride in the car during those times and insists we take the OBW for around town. We still take the XT for longer trips however because we both feel its extra power adds a significant safety margin. no dash crackle here. i feel the odyssey and its safety scores, plus it weight to match the other monsters and its cant beat room is my family hauler
8) Rattles overall - passenger door, under dash, in engine compartment. mine is rattle free
9) Tires - with 8500 on the Geolanders (I had snows on for 5 of the 13.5K miles) they're already starting to get "squeally" <- new word? around corners. And yes, the inflation is correct. And no, I don't take my corners on 2 wheels :<). gotta talk to mike about getting the fxt to be a better handling vehicle but the fxt rocks compared to the odyssey
9) HAL - much easier to live with in the summer vs the winter. The AC has no trouble keeping up with the 80 degree and one 90 degree day we've had so far this year. concur
10)Auto tranny - another gear would be great. agree
11)Ease of DIY maintenance - very easy. concur
I think that's really not a better put together issue, but just the fact that the Legacy/OB gets more soundproofing in general compared to the Forester and Impreza lines.
Ken
Okay I'll bite... I disagree. The FXT is a steal considering what you get for your money. Yes there's certainly always room for improvement but you have to remember that this is only a mid $20k vehicle. In fact, the Forester is actually below the new car avg selling price yet the FXT is faster than 99% of the cars on the road today.
The new Legacy is a very nice ride and certainly more refined than the Forester but then $4k buys a lot of sound proofing!
So yes there are plenty of more refined cars out there but IMO none that come close to offering the FXT's combination of utility, safety, handling, power and price.
-Frank
If you want a proven (Sti-derived) turbo powertrain in a compact AWD wagon that has acceptable on road handling, some genuine off-road ability and bags of "character", it's a steal.
It is overpriced and has high running costs if you dont need/want the turbo and all you need/want is an upscale Forester, CRV, Jetta or other small SUV/wagon. My wife thinks it's overpriced but at least we could afford it, so she gave in to my begging.
Everything else with comparable utility and performance is out of my price range (and likely auto-only), hence it is a screaming bargain to me.
Subaru should be congratulated that it exists at all, most cars are boring or impractical, the FXT is neither.
JP
(still waiting for the Canadian 05s to show up)
Subaru should be congratulated that it exists at all, most cars are boring or impractical, the FXT is neither
a very efficent sentence that says it all.
I have a suspicion that my XT certainly is in the minority re: the dash snap-crackle-pop issue. My belief is that the bar that goes from one side of the car to the other and that the dash attaches to is not properly mfg (remember, I had to shim one side of my steering column to get it properly aligned) and the dash has a torsional load on it that will never go away.
I've seen a guy selling an 03 dash on e-bay for $174 and I'm thinking of buying it just so a can figure out how to change the bar, and/or unload the twist. There's no way I'd ever let the dealer touch that kind of job. Sad to say.
Larry
Now you want to add a 5sp auto, dual power seats, dual-zone AC, a quieter ride, a luxury interior and even more bells and whistles but keep the price the same? Well you can get all those things in the top-of-the-line Legacy but it'll cost you another $4k.
The current Forester is certainly more refined than the previous generations and no doubt Subaru will continue to make improvements but the Legacy model will always be a step higher on the luxury scale. Otherwise there would be too much overlap between models.
-Frank
-Frank
ok, got this info from a non-Subaru dealer...so I took it with a huge grain of salt...but wanted to double-check...
does the XT require longer warm up time than a non-turbo Forester?? any other "quirks" about the XT I should know about??
Thanks.
Actually, the more commonly held belief is that due to their assumed higher operating temperatures, turbos need longer to cool down. But again, after driving any engine hard, you should spend a few minutes driving conservatively before shutting it off.
-Frank
If I'm not running late, I pop the hood open before I start to refuel and leave it open until I'm ready to pull out (and check the oil and coolant levels in the interim). This seems to minimize heat build up during short stops.
mark