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Comments
As far as the comparison goes, these two aren't comparable by any reasonable criteria. There's certainly no telling if I'll need to tow my imaginary boat or boulder bash on everest in the next five years (4R), or if I may need to outrun a cop or hug a tree (subie). These are just the two "trucks" with appealing, albiet impractical features.
Ed, it was nice to see you again this evening. Did you get a SAAB Proving Grounds hat on your way out?
DaveM
Nice to see you again as well.
Ed
John
I walked into the dealership with invoice and dealer holdback pricing from consumer reports and edmunds in hand. I had all the paperwork, even had my credit application with me already filled out, had my credit report and credit score in hand so I got the awesome financing. Had CarsDirect.com pricing in hand. Had invoice pricing confirmed over the phone from the dealer that works with my credit union. I walked into my dealer of choice and said I would by the car that day from him if he met the invoice price quote. I was out of there in 30 minutes with the keys to my new car and paid invoice. I also just purchased a Honda CR-V for my husband at about $200 below invoice by getting internet quotes from dealers - the fleet or internet departments within dealerships tend to work more volume, less commission and are more likely to give you an awesome deal than the guy who greats you off the street. I think in both cases, if I'd really haggled and spent an extra day or two and played the walking out of the dealership game I could have saved an extra $100 - but who wants that hassle.
I hope you live longer than that, tom! Let's hope you live to see the 2025 Subaru Flying Saucer that runs on tap water!
VIP - join the American Canoe Association or the International Mountain Biking Association, and 6 months later you're eligible for the VIP program, to buy any Subaru at invoice. To be honest you might be able to get that pricing even without it, depending on the model.
-juice
Huh? That must include a bunch of options since Edmunds lists the MSRP/with shipping for an FXT PP auto as $28,670. Fitzmall already has the 05s selling at invoice which in this case would be $26,434. Sounds like a heck of a deal to me!
-Frank
I would never insult a business by even asking for Less than cost!
-mike
Ah, you neglect to note that "Invoice" is NOT what the dealer payed for the car. Dealers pay some amount for the car (let's call it "Wholesale") then the Factory gives them some extra money to pay for advertising, stocking whatever (call this "Dealer Holdback"). Add those two figures together and you get Invoice. Ah, and don't forget the little-publicized "Factory to DEALER" incentives; they will never tell you about these. For my Subie, I vaguely recall a dealer holdback value of $777 - that means that if I got my car for $400 under invoice (debatable if THAT's true) then the dealer still made $333 on the deal. If they have a lot in stock and want to clear the lot for the '05s and the salesperson is feeling desperate as it's near the end of the month and he just got back from an expensive vacation (which was all true for me) then he might take below invoice. -elissa
Lots of "conspiracy theory" stuff in the above, except for the dealer holdback.
-mike
-mike
-Frank
-mike
There were some options not many, pretty much just a basic F-XT.
Edmunds has both listed. Just make sure you select the 05.
I don't think the F-XT MPG, is exactly a gas miser
You don't buy a vehicle that does 0-60 in 5.3 sec and expect to get good gas mileage too. If mpg is a concern you're much better off with the N/A 2.5 Forester X or XS. Both offer decent acceleration and the hwy mpg increases to 30 for the 05s.
-Frank
You're not serious right? The sales and service depts are completely separate profit centers in virtually all dealerships. So what you think the sales dept flags your name in the computer so the service dept knows to screw you? Wait a sec while I go find a grassy knoll... ;-)
-Frank
On my 04 XT, living in New England, I expected to pay more than in another part of the country. With that, I still came in in Edmund's TMV ballpark, which made me happy. Also, for any options that were dealer installed I could see where he was making his money, and in general had no issues - many of my dealers installed option prices were well below Edmunds TMV.
I have a great relationship with the dealer's parts department. The are always with a couple of percent of internet prices, and there's no S&H to worry about. Plus, when they had trouble getting me the right parts they apologized (which for me is enough by itself) and also threw in some free oil filters and crush washers. Don't laugh, but to Mike's point I actually gave two of the parts guys restaurant gift certificates as a thank you.
With the service department, despite the fact I've been working on cars longer than some of those folks have been on the planet (sigh...), the writers still pretty much treat me like a low grade moron. Not the mechanics however when I've been able to speak directly to a mechanic I've been well treated. As regards the writers, well I am however a persistent low grade moron, so things usually work out in my favor eventually.
I do most of my service myself, but do throw them enough bones so that I maintain a relationship with them. They would be more ticked if I was having worked done by another shop and only brought it to them for warranty issues.
I know not everyone thinks like me (a good thing) but this system has worked for me in the past with other dealers and seems to be working especially well with my first Subaru dealer.
I'll know better when something major breaks.
I'd call that my 0.02, but its so long I'll shoot for a nickel.
Larry
Larry
I'd still go with the 4Runner if I had to tow a boat, though.
I'll take the middle position on the dealer debate, yes they gotta eat, and yes service prices have crept up to cover the losses on the sales side of dealership business.
I guess I don't like to take a combatitive position against a dealer when I know there are many benefits to a good working relationship with a dealer and salesman you buy from repeatedly.
To each his/her own, I guess.
-juice
-Dennis
refurbishing and apply it to an excellent car. That being the case,I was in the ballpark.I was told that they reduce KBB by $2000 to support overhead.I always wondered how those salesman get paid hanging around the lot like vultures looking for a lost lamb.Now we know.
To me the real killer can be on buying used cars, there no telling how much margin the dealer has on those trades. All I know is the dealers all tell they make more on USED than they do on NEW.
tomsr1, these super top secret "things" are called "factory to dealer incentives", "wholesale price" and "dealer holdback". Invoice is NOT what the dealer paid for the car, despite what your salesperson would have you believe. The dealer holdback on the '04 Foresters was about $800 - that means that the dealer holds back $800 below the car's "invoice price". So if you buy your car at $200 OVER invoice, the dealer makes a $1000 profit. The sales people I've worked with can easily sell 20-30 cars per month each and I'd say bringing in $30K to the dealership each month is not a bad profit. They should be able to feed their children with the commission from that.
As for Kelly Blue Book, it doesn't guaranty that you will be able to NEGOTIATE for the stated price. It's a ballpark of what the market MIGHT bear, not a written guaranty that your dealer must abide by. I sold my '01 Subie for private party blue book on the nose, but was incapable of selling our '01 Dakota at even $1000 below book private party - wound up trading it in for $1000 below trade in value :-\ Oh well. It was a place I used to start the bidding and negotiate AROUND. Having it as a benchmark helped incredibly.
Elissa, sounds like your dealer is a crook! My dealer's tire rotation prices are better than the chain prices in his area. They do maintentance by the book and their prices are ~$100 cheaper than dealers closer to me (because of no add-ons).
-Dennis
Who is your dealer?
Don
Flemington. And I have about 9 dealers that are closer, according to Subaru.com. :-)
-Dennis
-Dennis
Yup, that was a Honda dealer that kept screwing with the trade in price. My Subie dealer is golden however.
tidester, host
What color and offset are your p1s?
What is the proper offset for 17x7.5's on the XT?
Don
Bob
This tank was another one with more highway miles than typical for me. Probably 65/35 highway/city miles. Similar to my last tank. 23mpg, with a few WOT runs through the gears, and the AC on for all the highway miles. So my overall average is just over 22mpg.
-Brian
Actually, they're advertising V-Power Premium unleaded at local Shell's around here. I'm not buying the hype though, just sounds like marketing.
Normally I fill-up with Speedway. I was just out at my parents for a bike parade and figured I should fill-up. No Speedway's out by them.
-Brian
-Dennis
/jrr
Larry
http://www.isuzu-suvs.com/events/pb02-17-02/pics/pages/DSCN1219.h- tm
-Dennis
Odds are very high I'll be putting Falken ZX-512's on it this fall, and they cost much less than $500 - check them out, very highly rated for an all-season performance tire.