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Comments
btw, i dont air down the tires as the sand is fairly compact but have had to help other cars out.
Forester has much better toe room, as in SOME toe room, under the seat, vs. the Legacy.
We have one of each and the Forester is a little bit harder to get into, but IMO more comfy once you get inside. It's my preference among the two, and I'd get another in a second.
-juice
There's an 05 XT MT with PP that's got your name written all over it! :P
-Frank
Will be filling up for the 4th time tonight. First 3 tanks yielded 21 mpg in mixed driving. It's mainly city, but a few longer trips, and some 'spirited' engine breathing. Compared to my Outback, I was getting between 20-22mpg for the same type of driving, although I think my foot might be slightly heavier in the XT. Not to mention that it's more fun to drive too!
-Brian
-juice
From my album: http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4286857491
see this, it TILTS! ;-P
-Brian
-Frank
For 1 tank Jack, just try driving more spirited and letting the engine enjoy it's powerband. What's it going to hurt?
-Brian
Cooler with SSRs
Oh, Joooooooooooooooose! LOL
Hey Frank that first pic with fog lights on looks like the new crystal grey and is an awesome shot...is it yours or a subaru file image, as I need a new background photo on my PC??
JP
-Brian
-mike
I posted some pics of it in the Crew: Photo Album thread.
Here's a teaser...
Solargard 22% charcoal.
Cheers!
-Ian
Ian- Very nice indeed!
Re: Black is cool- Loosh and Brian, my frist love is black and I've had 5 black cars. However, the silver looks good clean or dirty and requires a lot less OCDing :-)
-Frank
Didn't sit in the OB but the XT is very comfortable- best of both worlds!
That GT wagon looks great but has no business being on the true to Sube site. Just kidding!
Frankie
I'm having mild seizures of jealousy!
I'm house poor! My beach condo can do 0-60 in...wait, it can't do 0-60 at all! ;-)
-juice
The CR-V runs about $22k so there's not much of a price penalty for about double the overall performance.
Who will drive it? If it's yours, hold your ground. If it's hers, well, she's gotta choose, just point out these things:
* heated seats
* heated mirrors
* front and rear wiper de-icers
* 5/60 powertrain waranty (vs 3/36)
* 3 years roadside assistance (vs Zero)
* 16" rims (vs. 15")
* 0-60 in 5.3 vs. 8.2 (night and day)
You'll pay more for gas and insurance, but IMO the ownership experience will be much more rewarding.
-juice
It's easy to hooked on the power of the Forester XT. I got one for that same reason. I do love the car but honestly the traffic in California makes it more frustrating that fun to drive the car. I've shopped the CR-V and Forester twice and both times bought the Forester, now my husband is getting the CR-V.
Safety - both are 'safe' but F-XT comes with front and side airbags standard - in the CR-V you have to upgrade to the EX model. Also, CR-V side crash test results a few years ago reported good results but the car had a tendency to "tip over" - I don't consider that particularly "good" but they may have improved that. Honda may also have improved the tendency for the rear window to implode during a 5 MPH rolling crash test (thousands of $$ of damage).
All Wheel Drive - Subaru's is well-respected. CR-V's barely passes muster. Although I can't elaborate... I guess it's just not as rugged for "real" off roading.
Insurance Rates - came out about equal for us. No difference
Cargo room - Technically, I think the CR-V has more cargo space, but look at the configuration. The F-XT's rear seats lay flat so that I can 1) sleep in the back very comfortably, 2) carry sheet rock no problem, 3) slide my kayak in the car fitting front to back diagonally. I can't do any of those things in the CR-V because of the way the rear seats roll up rather than fold down.
Fog lights - standard in Subarus, not even an option in the CR-V from what I remember. That combined with no defrosting side views, no defrosting wipers, no heated seats ... the CR-V is not nearly the "winter" or "snow bunny" that the Subaru line up is.
Do you have, or are planning kids? Sell her on the safety. Just pull up the 'iihs' site where the Forester was ranked the safest vehicle tested in all their crash tests.
Go out on another test drive, and take the car to a gravel road or parking lot. On a mild turn at low speed, hit the gas. The difference in handling response between the two is quite striking. Now hit the brakes in a panic stop.
Make sure you do the test drive on a warm sunny day and open up that monstrous moon-roof (just don't do it on the gravel road. ha-ha). That feature alone almost made me want to buy the FXT.
Funny, I never noticed a difference in ride height btwn the two. Similarly equipped, they are about the same price. Make a point of comparing the added option costs. When you have the CR-V out, park it street side, and then open up the trunk. It's very counterintuitive with the door swinging the wrong way.
If you want to get underhanded, smack your knee on the steering column whenever you get in and out of the drivers seat. Yell "ow!!" very loudly each time you do. When she's driving, point out repeatedly how it feels like you're more cramped for leg room in the front seat of the CR-V. Say "I wish this seat moved back farther" over and over again.
Good luck, but it's really hard to lose, they are both first class vehicles.
The side air bags on the Forester protect the head, not so on the CR-V.
CR-V has had pretty good crash test scores, but the Forester has been excellent. Top score in every single test, actually, front and side from both IIHS and NHTSA. Honda can't match that.
-juice
-Frank
RE: the CR-V's rear bumpers. As for those great videos we've all likely seen of the CR-V's rear window imploding on a 5mph rolling rear impact where the FOrester just gracefully bounces off the impact - whew! compelling! But that video was from the 2002 model year:
http://www.progressive.com/newsroom/07_02_crash.asp (check out video links on the right)
I THINK Honda has addressed this. I'll have to look again at the back when my husband returs with the Honda, but the window now curves OVER the tire, so while there is no rear bumper to absorb the impact, I think the window wont' be as smashed. There is a guy on the Honda CR-V formum whose whole family recently survived a rear impact quite nicely and he made no mention of the window imploding... I may want to follow up with him... hm...
Since I don't plan on buying until the fall, I'm being very objective and test driving just about everything that has appealed to me. As always every truck/car has its Hits & Misses, subject to one own personal preferences, forcing you to decide how important certain features are or are not.
I started out thinking about keeping with the Mazda family Tribute, but it just seems to have lost its appeal (recalls, reliability etc). Next Ford’s Explorer/Expedition, Tahoe/Yokon all much bigger, use more petrol, and reliability seems to be very questionable. Honda Pilot is OK, but I've seen one too many used Pilots on the lot and I believe that Honda still has transmission issues, my last car was a '01 Acura CL, and at 36k miles the tranny went south.
Long story short, I thought I pretty much decided on a Toyota 4Runner, and halted my search until the new models are released this fall. Dang me, I'm a sucker for the new stuff, and I know better as I've been bit more than once on a new releases. Anyway I have read a lot about Subaru’s and having plenty of time, I thought I should at least give them a try. Of course I research the heck out of it before testing, I love to see how knowledgeable the sale people are about the stuff they want to sale me.
OK, ok, like a lot of people, test driving XT put a huge, huge, smile on my face. To me, some of the upsides are fun-to-drive, AWD, safety, and a lot of standard features. Downside is it borders on being too small, and it can get pricey for the size. And like getting another car I would have to spend the money to get it tinted. A '05 XT on the lot was $27.5, so I'm assuming XT Prem. will be pushing $29k (so there is about a $2,500 margin). MSRP-wise, that is about 4k less than a 4Runner V6 Sport Edition ($33k) which has about a $3k margin. The 4Runner’s ride can be a little too truck-like, and just a little more space than the XT , and its has a lot off-road capabilities (not that is a real big issue, just nice to have). Gas mileage is about 3-5 MPG less on the 4Runner, again not too big of an issue.
One other thing that is currently a concern is, that it seems that the XT and/or all Subaru scheduled maintenance seems to be quite extensive, when compared to others.
That is where I'm currently at, Please give me some more Pros and Cons to that might help sway me off the fences. Reliability, Comfort, Safety, and Price is my priority list
If you look at the Forester as sportier and wagon-like, and the CR-V as bigger and more van-like, I think you're on the right track.
Congrats Elissa.
-juice
As for smaller size, I don't necessarily disagree. It depends on what you're looking for. I drove a Legacy Wagon for many years and had TOO much space for my lifestyle at the time. I've since pared down a little to the F-XT. Its height does give you more cargo room, IMHO. The standard roof rack will help if you've got to transport construction materials (plywood, sheetrock, etc.)
--locus
But yeah, get a V8 with heated seats, 6CD changer, and a moonroof, and you might spend close to $40 grand. It's a big truck but if you don't need the size and payload it's also wasteful.
-juice
Just like the ad says... the 350Z just got smoked by a family of 5 and a dog!
-Frank
-juice
-Brian
Currently the '04 XT on Edmunds is $25.0, the XT Prem is $27.6, that is $2575 difference.
Sounds like there has been a bit of a price hike. I know that may not be street prices, but that is where the starting point may be.
I don't know, maybe Subaru is taking the Big-3 approach, to price them higher to allow for more margin and/or discounts.
Anyone can join IMBA or the ACA and won't pay more than $26k even for a loaded up automatic with the premium package and some accessories.
-juice
before and the one thing I noticed is the Toyota is a good quiet,soft vehicle but it is in no way a sports car.Some years ago I drove my sons Forester and it handled like a go kart (FUN).Since the Toyota is my wife's car now who cares.I have my Acura TL which is my fun.I think the XT is a car for guys who like to drive and have
some curvy open roads to use it and might want to go to Home Depot too.Maintenance is probably more expensive cause all turbos operate under a lot of stress.Winning Rally races doesn't mean it will last past 100k miles.
Also, any opinions on the premium fuel? The ECM optimizes performance depending on the octane grade, which should result in a minimal loss in HP. Similar complaint on the "recommended" premium fuel for the 4runner, which has a similar ECM and knock sensor. Seems like a ploy to increase the prestige of the brands to me.
Consider driving one after the other and then ask yourself if you will likley wish you had the 4-Runner while driving your FXT, or vice versa. That's how I ruled out the Outback H6 in comparison to the FXT, and they are much more closely related.
As for the premium opinions, check out the recent "suggestions for subaru" posts....
JP
PS: Anyone got pictures of the crystal gray 05 forester yet, better still a picture of the gray and silver cars side by side.