Subaru XT Turbo Forester

p0926

Hey Juice, wasn't our old parts supplier from Knoxville? I'm embarrassed I don't remember her name or the dealership but maybe Seth knows her.

-Frank

ateixeira

Dandridge, I already asked him about Darlene but that's a different dealership.

-juice

p0926

Darlene! I wonder what happened to her. I'd be surprised if the dealership was still in business.

-Frank

ateixeira

What bad timing - they were in financial distress right when the WRX was launched.

-juice

lark6

So am I seeing correctly that Crystal Gray Metallic and Obsidian Black Metallic have been added to the palette for the '05 XT? That's, um, interesting.

Can anyone tell me what Obsidian Black looks like? Does it have gold flecks like Java Black, blue flecks like Midnight Black Pearl, red flecks like Midnight Black Pearl, or something else?

Ed

subewannabe

Ed, assuming its the same paint as the Obsidian Black for the new Legacy and Outback,it is a very opaque black. I looked from several angles and I couldnt pick up any fleck colors except maybe a hint of silver.

Mark

ateixeira

It looks like black-on-black to me. A pretty deep, nice color. My fear would be the OCD levels required to keep it that beautiful.

-juice

lark6

I doubt I will buy another black car for a very long time...oh say, 18 years or so. ;-) I don't have the time to properly care for a black car finish anymore.

Still, curiosity has the best of me.

Ed

ateixeira

Wonder if the Silver is any darker. The current one is a little bit light. Still, it's my pick among the current colors.

-juice

pon1

XT colors couild be better, a lot better

wife likes the gold best, and she gets to pick the color (my concession).....hey even more of a sleeper in buick gold

the new silver is not much different than the old silver, should have been darker.....gunmetal?....then we would have been fighting over colors.

anyone see the new 05 XT cloth interior. did they get rid of the blue flecks in the fabric??

did they fix the climate control/HAL....

(i'm 99.9% off the fence - 05 FXT with MT, cloth and moonroof)

JP

miamixt

and for those of you in 27 States not Jack Jr., Son of the Founder of the Restaurant. I know he was going out of "Town", and that was Months ago. About the 2004 Black, while I would of preferred a better Black on the Forester, the Java Pearl for all it's worth is the most unique Shade of Black I've ever seen? And the first Service, while Service Intervals are very vague in the Manual depending on your Area, why is the mandatory first Service at 3K or 90 Day which throws off the rest of the Mileage Intervals if not going by Time Intervals? And Sam where have you been, inventing more upgrades for the Forester no doubt? The XT Continues to amaze, however with it's Limitations. Why not a $19 Mp3 Player instead of the 6 Pack, and HAL is back, Alive for 2005!

lfdal

Background - 04 XT, 12k, 10 months old. OCD maintained. Yesterday was the hottest weather this vehicle has seen, 94 deg and humid. Made 1 trip of 4 miles, stop and go, then another of 1 mile, stop and go, then another of 5 miles stop and go. Left the engine idling while I went in to retrieve my library books. Came back out within 5 minutes - reeked of burning anti-freeze - literally so strong you could smell from 10 feet away.

No signs of overheating, temp gauge right where it always is. Didn't see anything leaking so drove for another 2 miles, then turned off for 1/2 hour. Then drove 10 miles, light stop and go.

Spent a half hour looking for leaks - the reservoir looks to be fine, can't find any signs of a leak and god knows the XT has plenty of plumbing. Looked at the topside of the plastic shield, what I could see of it, and no signs of drips. Burning smell lasted at least an hour after the vehicle was off.

Back to 62 deg this morning and everything's fine. I plan on dropping the bottom shield this weekend, just to look at the bottom of the heads.

So here's my couple of theories, and I welcome comments:
1) Initial "burn off". Even though its 10 months old, it never saw this much heat. Wondering if there is/was some initial residue that gets cooked off. Wife's OBW smelled like this to a lesser degree for the first month we had it, but that was also in a Jan/Feb environment.
2) Heads ? I checked every hose I could from the topside and found zero sign of oxidation or residue around the connection points.

I'm really hoping its not the heads.

I figure I'll invest an hour or so over the weekend looking at it, then take it to the dealer for a pressure test if I can't find anything.

Other suggestions / ideas very much appreciated.

TIA

Larry

p0926

Hard to say. Just a tiny amount of anti-freeze leaves a strong odor so it can be hard to trace. Although Subarus are known for taking a long time to burn off whatever it is that they put on the engines, with 12k and 10 months I doubt that's what you're smelling. I'd suspect a loose fitting in the coolant system before an engine gasket. With the conditions you're describing, you were placing a maximum load on the AC. Were it a gasket problem the smell would be there regardless of what the outside temp is since the engine operating temp is always constant. I might wait and see if it happens again before taking it to the dealer.

-Frank

ateixeira

JP: I think the moonroof mandates a leather interior...

Larry: I'd "burp" it, on mine there is a phillips screw on the left top side of the radiator. See if when you open it there are air bubbles.

-juice

samiam_68

Sounds like the cooling system just spit out some antifreeze through the overflow tube. It doesn't take much antifreeze to have strong smell - 1-2 fl. ounces. After driving a few cycles, check the overflow tank, see if the level is lower than normal.

pon1

Not here it doesnt. All Canadian XTs have the moonroof. You can pick leather or cloth, auto or stick. Four models. The only thing you cant do is delete the moonroof. JP

p0926

Oh fine! Why don't you just rub it in then ;-)

-Frank

volkov

We might not have the Cup, but we've got moonroofs (Open the pod bay doors HAL) in every XT and the WRX 5pd.

miamixt

my XT has always smelled of Anti Freeze/Gasoline since day one, which took away some of the mystique of the Boxer Engine. However I have no visible leaks, and the smell has always been about the Same, not bad, just smells like a Car!

samiam_68

I don't know about antifreeze, but my XT at first smelled like gasoline. That stopped after I tightened all the hose clamps around the fuel filter.

corkfish

Has anyone seen the dyno charts for the Cobb Access tuner? With nothing more than an exhaust, a reflash and 93 octane, this thing will get 310 pound feet of torque. Even with nothing more than the reflash, I think it gets near 280 pound feet. I'm going to wait to get one until I hear how others do, but if no one reports any problems, I'll spend the $600.

rpm1234

I went out to COBB tuning web site http://www.cobbtuning.com/main.html or http://cobbtuning.com/forester/accessport.html to read about these stage and AccessECU updates. They look pretty impressive. I have read about other ECU upgrades with other cars especially my old Volvo through IPDUsa, but AccessECU looks different in that you do your own reflash at home. It even looks like you can reprogram the ECU back to stock. And their device even reads and clears engine codes. But what about the auto and awd system. How much power are these systems capable of handling. I would think with all this extra power the suspension and brake upgrades are also in order to keep the car safe.

subearu

wow, that's a neat little gadget for the ecu. cost guesses?

-Brian

volkov

The A/P gets very good press on the WRX sites. I have never read a bad consumer comment on one. (Not that it guarantees they don't exist) You can also download new maps from the web as they are developped. Very attractive idea, and will almost certainly be my first performance upgrade. Quite a few people actually report better mileage with the basic Cobb map, felt by consensus to relate to WRX tendencies to run a little rich. Hard to tell how the FXT tends to be. They may have dialed in less for the Forester assuming less aggressive modding than the WRX is subject to.

Nicholas

lite1

Have 2004XT silver exterior and the very warm standard interior which is primarily black. I live in Western Oregon along I-5.

Goals:
a) Cooler in summer after being parked or just driving around. b)Still able to see out and have good visibility. c)In our gray rainy season still want adequate interior light so it doesn't feel gloomy. d)Privacy is not a motivation nor is looking "cool".

I am considering a) doing nothing and saving the money to pay for the use of more air conditioning; b) window tinting; or c) sheep skin seat covers.

When I park the car I try to find shade; almost always use a windshield blocker; crack all four windows. I rarely use the back seat for people and so if I do seat covers I'd probably keep back seats down and put a light colored flannel sheet over the back area.

Window tinting questions: a) My car is 8 months old. Is there any concern/extra challenge tinting glass that is not brand new? b)Would have professional do things so it is done once right. Any tips on picking a pro as they are not all created equal. c) The little I have read of websites seems like there are tons of different manufacturers of film - any recommendations and ones to stay away from? Given my goals any suggestion of the tint "color" to reduce heat build up but maintain good visibility? d) As far as I can see Oregon law requires at least 35% glass plus tint transmission. While I will get advice from local installer, any thoughts you have from your experience of what %age tint might make sense for my situation?
I like the idea of tinting if it is effective and relatively competitive with seat covers as regards cost since the tinting doesn't need special occasional maintenance the way seat covers do; and I hope would last the life of the car. Seat covers get dirty and especially because I like to camp and get on the back roads to get to trail heads they get extra dirty.

Seat covers: a) Think light colored (probably silver) sheepskin would be cooler in summer and be comfortable in winter (or perhaps take them off in winter). b) Any recommendations of mail order places? It seems that for better fit one may need to go to a custom seat cover, but hopefully someone has a place they are pretty happy with regarding their standard covers.

As always would appreciate any of your experience and pros and cons of the solutions I am considering.

p0926

Go with the window tint. The sheepskin seat covers have the drawbacks you mentioned plus they'll trap your body heat in the summer and negate the effectiveness of your seat warmers in the winter. You can get a 35% tint all around and maintain excellent outward visibility while still blocking a significant amount of sunlight. Note, many Forester owners (myself included) tint their back windows to 20%. I've even heard a few that have gone to 5% (limo tint) in the back (taking advantage of the Forester's arguable SUV status) but 35 all around is a good compromise. 35 will be hardly noticeable from the inside but will keep the interior noticeably cooler on sunny days.

As to picking an installer, the easiest route would be to use the same one your dealer uses. Otherwise, the most important thing is to ask to see several samples of vehicles that have been tinted and check the quality of work.

IRT which brand/type of tint to use, I don't think the brand makes much difference but metallic tints (composition not color) resist fading better than dyed tints. Speaking of color, I think charcoal looks best, especially on a silver vehicle.

-Frank

lite1

Thanks for comments Frank (P0926); recommendation of 35% all around might be great in Georgia where you are but will investigate for Oregon (not because of law) but because I am concerned about it being gloomy during a gray, rainy season. Also some people I have spoken to in parking lots yesterday indicated that in otherwise relatively low visibility situations tinting makes backing up even more challenging so I plan to watch out for that issue.

For others interested in this topic from other post here and my own research:
1) I still have not ruled out sheepskin seat covers, which I have used before and which are quite cool in summer.
2) Two websites that I have found of value are www.tintdude.com and www.autotinting.com. Both list what they know of state laws with disclaimers; of interest is that it seems that you could be stopped in an adjacent state even if you are just traveling through if you don't meet their regs. Tintdude.com is for pros and I found it informative to look at the "horror stories" of what can go wrong with a job - not alot but it was eye opening. The site also has suggestions of what to ask the installer before going with them, pretty basic but helpful info. for a novice.
3) In addition to Frank's suggestion of picking an installer based on who the local dealership uses. Other have suggested asking people in parking lots that have tinted windows about their experience. Personally I looked at the classified ads on some websites and then checked what that installer had posted on that website's forum to see how they handled warranty complaints about their work.
4) My approach might end up being: Buy seat cover and try that out for a few days and return it if it is not an effective solution and then go the semi-permanent tinting route.

bobshere1

I found some grey "universal fit" captain's chair seat covers at Costco a few years ago. They are well made and "cool". They were exceptionally inexpensive. I don't know if they still sell them. I have them on my Miata. They wouldn't work, as is, on a FXT because you need to keep the sides OPEN for the air bags deployment on any seat cover you find.

       Bob

mnf

I live in East Washington and we have wet/ Snowy and dark days also and all my cars/ trucks have had the 35% tint. On my new 2004 xs silver i have the 35% tint all around and you can see at night and day just fine and it looks VERY GOOD. I would put the pictures on but haven't figured the process out yet. To find a dealer ask around or call a car dealer and ask them who does there's and it's most likely a shop very near them and they are some of the better ones. Good luck... Matt

p0926

I guess I wasn't clear enough. I recommended 35% because it does allow more light in (in southern states 20% is more common). If you can find a lighter tint (50%?) then you can go with it but honestly, you'll hardly notice 35% and I certainly wouldn't worry about visibility. I can see fine backing up at night and that's with 20% tint (and an auto-dimming mirror). Also, FYI many SUVs and minivans come with factory tint that's the equivalent of 35%. As for the varying state laws, yes people can and do get stopped although it's pretty rare (and Forester's are basically exempt as long as you keep the fronts at 35%). One final thought, tint can be removed without too much difficulty if you decide you don't like it (not that I've ever heard of anyone doing that) but then you'd be out the $$$ that it cost.

-Frank

ateixeira

Tint that enornous moonroof! ;-) Or just pull the sun shade.

-juice

p0926

Doesn't the moonroof come tinted from the factory?

-Frank

ateixeira

Slightly, yeah. I meant even darker. Perhaps one of those mirror-style tints, since it's on the roof it could work like a one-way mirror.

-juice

p0926

Good point. I'm not a fan of mirror tint but it could work on the moonroof where it wouldn't be noticeable.

-Frank

miamixt

I work at Night, barely ever see the Daytime, and I almost tinted my Black XT with the Darkest Illegal Black Tint there is, highly suggested and only cost $20 More ($140) It is a known fact, you can't see out of a Tinted Car as well, one reason for so many accidents here in South Florida And the Auto Dimming Mirror which seems to get it's cue from HAL the On board Climate Computer would not work well with a Dark Tint, especially at Night!. I have yet to see another Forester on the Road in Miami-Dade/ Broward County in the past Year , and I would say that 95% of all SUV's are Tinted down here, I wanted something different!

volkov

there were some interesting articles not long ago which talked about tinted cars actually being hotter. I'll see if I can find a link, but I believe it was discussed in the forum here. It seems counterintuitive, but it may relate to the black tint being a heat sink and holding it, versus clear windows transmitting with little energy transfer. Don't know if the newer metallics work by reflacting energy, therefore reducing this issue.
Two possible solutions I've heard of for the seat covers is either cutting out the side panel or taking out the side seam and either adding velcro or simply tacking it down in a few places such that it simply rips open in event of air bag deployment. I think the airbag issue tends to get a little exagerated given that the side of the seat actually gets blown off and it's seam doesn't seem too flimsy on inspection. I plan to soon do the mod to the sheepskin covers I took off my sedan. The black seats in the WRX really soak up and hold in heat.

Nicholas

volkov

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Jun-20-Fri-2003/news/- 21568428.html

It's not gospel, but worth considering. If the new metallics achieve their effect by reflecting light, they should be better, but who knows. Any tint will make direct sunlight feel cooler from inside the car, but if the tinted window absorbs heat at twice the rate of a clear one, the window itself would become an insidious source of overheating.

Nicholas

p0926

I must have missed that debate and don't buy it in any case. Tint works by blocking a portion of the suns rays. Once the interior of the car is hot, it's the surface area of the glass that conducts the heat back to the outside (clear or opaque shoudn't make a difference). The only way the tint could change the rate that heat is dissipated would be if it was acting as an insulating layer. I suppose that in the strictest sense it is since it's an added layer but in practical terms I wouldn't think it would be measurable. I do know from firsthand experience that tinted vehicles cool down faster and take less AC to keep cool.

-Frank

Edit: Okay I read the article and can see their argument where dark tint would absorb heat similar to a dark painted vehicle. But I would at least like to see the results of a real test using the same model car. Regardless, tint will block direct sunlight from hitting the interior of the vehicle (which is most important as anyone who has sat on a leather seat which has been in direct sunlight can attest).

subewannabe

The issue of light-energy being absorbed by tinted glass and the heated glass thereby contributing by radiant heating to the internal temperature is not as easily dismissed as some might suggest. Touch the hood of a black car on a sunny summer day....think that's hot? The temperature retention capacity of that steel skin, aluminum in a FXT, is NOTHING by comparison to the heat retention capacity of glass. Once the glass gets hot, the only way to release that heat is through radiant transfer to the adjoining spaces. Luckily, a little breeze will enable that radiant transfer to be directed mostly to the outside environment. But it will also contribute to the internal temprature until equlibrium is reached,i.e.,the inside is the same temperature as the glass.
   A few things to help the situation, depending on how you use your vehicle:
1) Reflective screens and cardboard cutouts in windshields and side windows look dorky but work well...mostly by keeping the light from getting to other surfaces inside the car.
2) Tinting, like cutouts in the windows when you park, lowers internal vehicle temperature only by reducing the transmission of light into the compartment where it is then absorbed by other surfaces inside the car and then released as radiant heat energy. Thus,using the light gray cargo cover in the rear of a Forester XT or a white or light colored sheet in the cargo area and/or rear seats will reflect the light energy back out through the glass even when you're driving down the road and prevent the dark carpeted, leather and/or plastic surfaces inside the car from absorbing the light then radiating even more heat.
  3)Clear plastic milk/water 1 gallon jugs filled with water and secured in the outboard front and/or rear seats not occupied by passengers or even in the cargo area. Water is a tremendous heat sink. Light passes through the jug and into the water, but very little heat will radiate/escape. Change the water or leave the jugs outside to cool off at night....you will notice how warm they have become. If you know you're going to be parked out in the sun, fill them with cold water in the morning. DONT fill with ice or ice water...that will not absorb as much light and also will produce enough condensation on the outside of the jug to ruin leather seats in one incident. The more light-absorbing surface you cover, the better this works. A flatter clear container would theoretically work better, but milk jugs are free, dont leak, are a convenient size and have handles.

mark

kens

Mark,

Facinating suggestion with using water filled milk jugs as heat sinks!

Ken

ateixeira

Luckily I go from car port to garage at work, so it's always in the shade.

-juice

lite1

As usual this forum is a wealth of opinion and seemingly of good experience and knowledge as well. Much thanks to all of you. The water bottle idea is fascinating. Glad to hear that experience seems to say that tinting makes for a cooler temperature interior when you return to the car. I probably will go the tint route after a little more investigation. Given that tinting for glass in the home is supposed to (by actual head to head experiement?) save energy, I'd expect that a car would also benefit however the window surface area to volume as well as standard insulation factors are very different between a home and a car.

By the way: I do not have a moon roof so that is not a source of heat. I do use a front sun shade and when possible leave the windows cracked to allow for some venting. I wonder if "venting" a car is contra-indicated when one is using non-iced water bottles!! I know venting is quite helpful if you crack open a moon roof because of the chimney effect.

p0926

Tinting certainly makes the AC more efficient. I find it especially useful for a vehicle like the Forester with its veritable greenhouse expanse of glass! Even with tinting you always want to use a sunshade since the windshield is the largest single expanse of glass and the only one you can't tint (except the top 4" inches). And yes, leaving a moonroof open a crack would drastically reduce the heat build-up but unless you live in the desert or can easily rush out and close it when rain threatens, it's not the most practical solution :-)

-Frank

jpfkk

For what it is worth: I had my Black XT tinted and am very glad that I did. The car definitely feels cooler, especially the leather seats. And, as an aside, makes the boxy (dare I say somewhat ugly) Forester look much, much better looking. I realize that is my own opinion but both my girl and I wanted the Forester despite its looks and with the tinting we do like the design much better. Maybe someday Subaru will design better looking cars, but that is another story altogether.

We used the tinting person that our dealer recommended. Their view was "this is the guy that does our showroom cars and he is really good. We also stand behind his work." Given that the dealer seemed eager to have a good relationship with us, we felt comfortable with the person they recommended and I am happy to report our decision paid off. The tinter the dealer had us use did probably the best tinting job I've ever had done on a car.

Back to the seat cover discussion. I have two dogs and was looking for a seat cover for the back seat to protect the leather. I currently have a blanket on the seat but it keeps shifting and the seats get dirty, etc. Has anyone had a custom seat cover made for the back seat of their Forester? Many of the custom seat cover companies will make a seat cover for you (the prices don't seem that unreasonable to me) and I wondered if anyone on this board had that done? Any seat cover companies that people would like to recommend?

Appreciate the feedback.

p0926

I know LL Bean sells dog-friendly covers for the back seat and no doubt other companies do as well. I don't have a catalog handy but IIRC the price is around $75.

-Frank

miamixt

The Kia Sportage, the Jeep Liberty, the Infiniti, the Land Rovers, the Saturn, the Aztec, the Tracker, the Element, the Scion, the Blazer, and the list goes on, now these are UGLY!

The Forester, especially the XT has to be the cutest Mini SUV available!

frankiext

I second the opinion of MiamiXT that Forester are among the better looking compact SUV. It's better than the 2003 model! I think what color you choose has a lot to do with spicing it up! Mine is "Cayenne " red with tinted windows (medium dark) and moonroof and I love it! I liked the black too but am too lazy to wash it twice a month.
Suggestion for the dog friendly seat covers. I have a drooly Golden retriever and found new bath rugs to work great. Rubber backing=no slipping. I don't like the metal dog barrier.I put the rear seat down if I take him with me (so he can stick his head out the rear window). Rarely have to deal with my dog drooling onto the rear leather when I take the 10 seconds to cover them with bath rugs (available in various sizes, shapes, $10-$20 each, water/droolproof, and machine washable). The rugs are off white color to keep it cooler for the pooch, but of course I don't leave him alone in a hot car.
Hope that helps.

john284

So we dont have to have this never-ending mind-twisting discussion about window tint, I mean, can we go back to MPG bragging:)?

hypov

You could try using anti-skid pads under the existing blanket. The pads are available in places like Home Depot or Lowes. Will act sort of like the bathroom rugs.

-Dave

p/s: I use those pads whenever after I conditioned the leather seats on my '98 OB. It kept my ... planted.

frankiext

Hey everyone-
I'm a new Forester XT owner and therefore new to this incredibly informative town hall. I could really get sucked into this after learning the ropes of a chat room like this. I just got my windows tinted yesterday by a professional. Are we allowed to name /recommend brand names in this chat room? If so, I have one for lite1.
I have a red Forester and did the 8 window surfaces for $250.
The 3 rear windows in 15% transmission, 2 passenger rear in 30% trans moonroof in 30% trans and driver/front pass in 50% trans(very light but illegal, in fact a shade darker than factory original). The way I did it is what the tinter suggested, a gradual, subtle visual effect from dark to light. It looks awesome and I have no problem looking out the back right side (30% trans) to change lanes, day or night. You said you were thinking of getting the 35%, right?
This company is based out of Virginia and lifetime guaranty against the tint from fading or changing color and bubbling. If your pooch scratches the tint, you're on your own. If you have a dog or if you haven't vacuumed your car in awhile, better to vacuum 1-2 days before getting tinted. Need time for dust to settle. The tinter told me horror story of his client who had windows redone after the first tinter messed up and trapped stray hair into the window! As for me, I can't stop looking at my hot Subie!
BTW, If recommending tint manufacturer by name is OK, I'll drop the name today.