I'm completely not following you. So your comparison of the MB 500 to the 300 is ok, but comparing the 500 to the Bentley is "miguided." Yeah, ok. good luck with your trolling.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
True, that's actually a good point and I could see that being a great option for those who desire a better ride w/ great handling. Kind of like Cadillac, with the SRX and STS in a sense, just don't bundle that special suspension into a $10k option package like those idiots do sometimes.
"Mercedes is for the elite and the prosperous, and the Chrysler....well, less so. (LOL)"
Or put another way, the Chrysler 300C may be for those that have more brains than money...
Anyone who buys a Mercedes solely because they think that will project an image of their being "elite and prosperous" needs to work on their self-image.
A $28k MB is "elite and prosperous"? LOL!!! Now that's a good one!
I could spend all day linking "pimped out" MB's... all of the models, but since it's against the rules here, I will oblige. If the MB makes your image, then you need to work on your self image before impressing anyone with what you drive!
The engineering and numerous safety, conveience, comfort, and handling features found on a Mercedes is not found on a mere Chrysler
Unless you drive an AMG, then your reasoning is pointless!
I completly disagree. Take a look at this: If I am a seven-figure earning executive, and I drive a Neon, what do you think people think of me?
Now take the Ferrari owner, and you see me getting out of it with my briefcase and executive attair, what do you think then?
The reason why many executive and wealthy professionals drive an upscale car, like a Benz, Audi, Jag, is because of the car's abilty to make any drive in it a pure driving experience with the expected levels of comfort and conveience.
some of us just appreciate the finer things in life... The Chrysler isnt one of them. Its a fake. Something that seems great now, but soon will become a failure at upholding what "greatness" it ever had.
Take a look at this: If I am a seven-figure earning executive, and I drive a Neon, what do you think people think of me?
I know a CEO who drives a Nissan Sentra.. we've spoken about cars on ocassion so I ask what does he drive and when he told me, I said he was lying until I saw the car (not even a new one). His reasoning is "I don't invest in cars, just houses".
So it really doesn't matter what interest a person may have and how they use their money. Apparently, he's more concerned about the "image" of his family, not his own!
And again I go back to this... WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF YOU! You can drive an Aston Martin DB9 and still be a jerk! Drive a Neon and be the best guy people can talk about and respect.
But if a car 'makes' your image, then that only tells me how insecure you are of yourself!
I have to agree with Shipo; I am on my second E320 and right now also have a Matrix in my driveway. And last spring when looking for a used E320 gave serious consideration to the 300C, having driven 3 300's as noted in a previous note. I ended up finding a terrific 2.5 year old E320 that cost me almost exactly what I would have spent on the 300C, and because of the Starmark warranty (which I extended for an extra 2 years) went with the E320. This way I get the size, performance, handling, ride, and luggage capacity I need with warranty coverage up to 100K miles so that I don't have to worry about the higher cost of repairs on the MB. If I hadn't found this particular E320, I was just days away from ordering a 300 Touring (or maybe the 300C) and it wouldn't have bothered me a bit to have traded my 96 E320 towards the 300.
I don't buy a car for snob appeal, but for practical issues as noted above along with reasonable fuel economy. And it dismays me when I hear or listen to people bragging about being able to look down their noses at others driving lower cost cars. I can't afford brand new MB's which is why I buy them slightly used. I pay a lot less than sticker and the first owner has taken care of all the early nagging issues that have cropped up on MB's in the last 10 years or so. And I get to drive them for many years before I reach the 100K mark.
Bottom line is I still find myself looking at the 300's on the road and admiring them for their value and style, especially the vanilla color.. That color makes me think of similar colors seen on some of the cars from the 20's and 30's.. Great color..
And the 300 is not the first Chrysler car to show an improved reliabilty rating; CR has upped their ratings of the Neon and PT Cruiser as compared to earlier models from Chrysler. They are now fairly respectable in that respect.
And one of the richest people I ever met, Ken Olsen of Digital Equipment fame, drove a Ford even when he was CEO and President of DEC and making more money than any of us can imagine.. Back then, he probably could have bought MB, the company, not just a car, if he had wanted to. But he got a lot of respect and admiration for not showing off.
Amen! Perhaps this image conscious chap needs to buy a 300C and spend the price difference between it and his cramped and generic looking e-class on a top notch therapist! The only "image" that matters comes from within.
You guys trip me out. I just feel the E500 is a better car. I like the 300C to a certain extent, but its just not a car I see myself driving. Besides, Im only 5'6" and 19 yrs old, so a large car is not in my mind right now. Maybe while getting older.
I am a Ferrari fan, and I spend lots of time dreaming about driving a 360 down the road.. Man, that car is gorgeuous, absolutely stunning!!!!!!
Lots of messages overnight!! A 19 year old causing all of this controversy. Maybe you're too young to realize it, and I don't mean it as a personal attack, but I lived in Turtle Creek for a while when I went to SMU. It truly is the home of the nouveau-riche. Maybe that's why you feel you need a 'status' car.
I am no mere child. I was very serious about our "debate". I am a business owner and ministry leader trying to decide on the perfect vehicle to fit my taste.
Ok, first my comment was not an offensive attack, I'm just bothered by the fact that you would "look down" on people based on what they drive. And if that's not your intention, it's definitely what you're doing.
...ministry leader
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you're religious or are a faith-based believer, then focus on being humble and get the car that "fits your needs" not your "image".
I apologize sooo much. No, I dont look down on people based on what they drive. I guess what I was taught seeps outta me. For years, before I started my business in Dallas, I drove, as a high schooler, a not so good car, and I always felt intimidated and humiliated because of the car I drove. I was embarrassed by it and I used to park it far away where people couldnt see what I was driving. I was devestated....
Therefore, I gave up my car completly, and now Im moving to closer to my office and in an area in Dallas where I can simply walk to work or take a cab to further destinations.
... on that note, the MB E500 is a nice car which I've admired, though the reliability issues concern me to not look that way. I like the E500 but I'm a performance nut myself, that's why I'm getting the 300C. It may not be flashy on the inside, but it's more than flashy under the hood ;-) In addition, I'll enjoy having surgical parts of the E on the 300C... lol!
Plus, I'm a retro kinda person which makes me love it even more! I.e. I really like the new Mustang, but as long as Ford is making it, I won't "buy" it. :-)
Well, thank you..however, I am concerned with the Chrysler's reliabilty as well. That's partly why I am skeptical about it...let me know how its doing in that department.
I think I would be a buyer for the 300C SRT8 if it will have wood trim, etc in it.
But I still feel tempted to get maybe an SL-class? my 19 year old friend is buying a SLK convetible or a Volvo XC90 and I just gotta top that...lol
You can generally say that reliability is a chance you take on every company, especially companies who haven't established themselves as of yet in that dept. But in order for them to succeed, you have to give them a try. Toyota and Honda didn't get there because of their name. In fact, they were on the brink of bankruptcy before they did an overhaul.
Yes, the leader of DEC did drive a Ford Pinto! He was a wonderful engineer and did not go for glitz. Back in the day, he did fly his own float plane to his remote cabin to get away and think. Those are real big boy toys!
I have a difficult time comparing cars that cost half as much or twice as much as another car.
I don't know if the 300C is a cheapie or not -- also I don't know if the 300C is a fad (style wise) or not. The only thing I have concluded -- and this only from reading and looking at one (not driving) at the dealership -- is that the 300C seems to be a lot of car for the money.
Now according to some magazine, CEO I think, the number one "executive" car over $50,000 is the Audi A8 and the number one "executive" car under $50,000 is the 300C.
I don't know if I saw someone get out of a 300C that I would think he/she was a "poser." If the carpet is thin and there is some hard plastic, I still look at the MSRP of a fully loaded 300C and it is just south of $40K -- the cars I am looking at, at this moment include the Audi A6 (~$51K), the Acura RL (~$50K), the Audi A4 3.2 (~$44K) and the 300C AWD (~$43K with all the toys). The Chrysler may be cheap and plasticky and may also be a fad. I will lease what I select for 36 months and NEVER be out of warranty from any of these cars -- so from a certain perspective this is NOT that much of an issue.
The 300C may be compared to low-end 300's bought used next year and allowed to deteriorate by the "poor" people who buy them, beats me.
I would think that a 300C or Mercedes or Cadillac or most vehicles will not be a measure of one's mettle, so to speak.
And, one last comment, the phrase [translated] "new rich" was simultaneously appropriate and apparently ignored by our 19 year old entrepreneur.
I have no quarrel with someone NOT liking my car and if I do select a 300C (or a new A6), I am certain there will be detractors. I will have issue, however (and no leg to stand on with respect to an argument) if my $40 or $50 thousand dollar car is compared with a $70 or $80 thousand dollar car. How could I even concoct legitimate comparisons at such price differentials?
When I finally drive one of these things, I may ultimately agree that the 300C is a cheaply constructed "poser" -- but for me to reach that conclusion, I will have to evaluate it against a comparably priced product -- NOT one that costs over 80% more.
"Take a look at this: If I am a seven-figure earning executive, and I drive a Neon, what do you think people think of me?"
One of the guys who sold WebTV to Microsoft for $400 Million came to work in a Honda Civic. And I have a lot of respect for him. More so than if he had come with a Ferrari. I personally like understatement. Even if I had millions in the bank, I would still go with the 300C instead of the S500 or 745i. Because I value value.
I just got done reading the Consumer Report on the 300. I agree with some others that I wouldn't buy a toaster recommended by Motor Trend so I don't buy a car recommended by CR. The artical did seem fair some what. I still disagree with putting the 500 ahead of the 300c, but there will always be cars made that folks think are better than mine. The only thing that really got me, as in several articles, is the poor visibility. I got my 300c first part of June and both my wife and I have NEVER had a problem with visibility! The picture they show with the guy straining his neck to see the light is crazy. I'm 6' 2" and have NEVER had the problem with seeing a traffic light. Maybe people need to learn how to use the stop block lines they put at intersections. I owned a Dodge Caravan that I needed to strain to see the light like that picture if I ran to far into the intersection!
"Maybe people need to learn how to use the stop block lines they put at intersections."
Amen !! This is one of my pet peeves! In my town, it seems that drivers think that the stop line is meant to line up with their REAR bumper !! Most of them block the pedestrian crosswalk area making it difficult for people in wheelchairs and the elderly to cross the road.
I drove 3 300's and although I am 6'3" I did not have a problem with the visibility in any direction from within the 300. I'm not sure why the editors are having a problem with the visibility.
I find it interesting, and a little bit amusing, that a 19 year-old, self-obsessed, know-it-all is getting a rise from those who know better. Let the kid have his laughs and leave him to his misguided dream that one's ride is indicative of one's "worth." He, too, will one day wake up and grow up to see the world and himself through a more realistic lens.
That's kind of irrelevant seeing that the discussion was over the reliability and quality of "luxury" cars in the American market vs. the import/foreign market of upscale brands such as Mercedes Benz and Audi.
You seem to be like all the adults who limit a person's ability by their age, gender, or educational background. In doing so, you exhibit obvious signs of your own insecurity and inability to achieve things you are truly passionate about.
Let's get off the personal attacks - talk about the car, not other members.
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Is this a trick question? The AWD Chrysler 300C has the engine in the front and the Rear Wheels Are driven just like the RWD ONLY version.
The needed hardware to make the car FWD + RWD (or AWD) is added before the firewall, so nothing would change after the firewall.
There was a very pro AWD article in syndication this weekend about AWD and the number of cars (as a percentage of models) that come with it now, versus not long ago plus the upcoming already announced AWD versions already in the pipeline.
Despite complaints about the 300C's cheapness from some, I still am faced with the sense that the 300C is a lot of car for the money.
I read the upcoming feature/options that are coming to the 300 line -- one is rear seat DVD -- the Cadillac family offers this on some of their products. I know die hard Caddy fans do not like the comparison, but there is enough "stuff" in the 300C to make a comparison to the STS NOT THAT far out of the realm of possibility.
As an Audi fan and long time owner, imagine my chagrin when the Acrua RL and the 300C made Car and Driver's top ten list and Audi's new A6 did not.
Of course the luke warm review (from my perspective) of the new Acura in the latest Road and Track, also put me in a quandry of sorts -- now that I am merely awaiting the ability to test drive the Acura and the Chrysler.
This is a good time to be "almost" buying a new car -- the choices are diverse and legitimate (mostly) -- how refreshing.
I must admit, I really know nothing about FWD, AWD, RWD. I go after the look, safety, decent mileage, the drive, and the cool factor. So, is AWD better than RWD?
One of great frustrations in politics today is the inability to answer a direct question with a direct answer. As you can see, it has spilled over to consumer boards as well.
There are opinions on all sides of this issue -- AWD, FWD and RWD.
AWD is increasing in popularity.
RWD, once almost the total population of vehicles, then somehow cast off in favor of FWD, is -- again -- regaining much of its lost popularity.
FWD is hardly dead and gone, but in relative terms as 100 cars are sold with some being (now) all wheel drive and some rear wheel drive, front wheel drive is declining in popularity. Having said that, I would estimate that to this very day, FWD is still the dominant drive in our cars.
The "ideal" world seems to be believe in weight balanced RWD cars. While I understand and can theoretically support this notion -- there are many reasons that while pragmatic in nature, do support a general (and growing) consensus that all wheels driven are "preferable," if not technically "superior."
The reason often cited for the growing (and perhaps I should emphasize "rapidly" growing) popularity of AWD is/are the proliferation of trucks and SUV's. Indeed as [Americans] drivers discovered the go anywhere capability of SUV's, they started to wonder what a regular CAR would be like if it had AWD.
Audi and Subaru for years answered this question and for a time were about the only car companies that offered virtually all of their vehicles in AWD, either as standard or optional.
The fact that some of the highest performing versions of some car manufacturer's offerings are the AWD versions had also "encouraged" manufacturers to bring more AWD to market.
Take the DC company -- for a few years Mercedes offered one or a few 4Matic versions of their cars -- in the past two model years, the majority of Mercedes can now be had with or come standard with AWD. The 300C was a natural to get the AWD treatment -- in fact I was so certain it was a cinch to happen that I assumed it never would, because it was so logical and will, I am convinced, become a substantial portion (which is NOT the same as the majority) of the sales of 300's -- perhaps mostly in the 300C and SRT-8.
The reasons, money, technology, demand, performance, safety and fun -- break it down.
More revenue and income for the manufacturer; the technology is proven and improving, the milage "hit" is around 1mpg and for some is virtually zero; customers are demanding it -- there is no visual penalty for an AWD car, little fuel economy hit, as noted; no drivability issue (and the car is not 4 inches higher off the ground); on the highways and byways that we drive, a well designed AWD car will outperform either an FWD or RWD car in low and normal traction situations alike; AWD is sure fun when there is a dusting of snow over slush and your car "walks up a hill" while others are slip sliding away.
AWD for obvious reasons really is safer and/or is perceived as being safer -- and, after all, perception is reality.
Recently an article was published stating that by this time next year 38% of cars will be offered with AWD as either standard or a low cost option.
I do understand folks who live south of the snow belt commenting that AWD is a waste -- while I disagree, I would not attempt to sway their opinion, anymore than I will argue that ESP and ABS w/brake assist is an improvement that makes it a must have -- with someone who believes, sincerely believes otherwise.
I believe the best combination is:
a slightly rear biased AWD system coupled with ABS+brake assist and ESP. The Chrysler 300C is a huge step in this direction, even though it is not as well balanced as it could be to achieve automotive nirvana.
There is a wealth of info about AWD -- all over. Most of it does suggest AWD -- pragmatic ally -- is superior.
The 300C w/AWD and its 38/62 torque split (f to r) will be yet another forward move for this vehicle.
I am hoping for a test report of the SRT-8 AWD vs the STS AWD -- price independent and price dependent.
I have an AWD Magnum and I can tell you that the floor is different between the Magnum RWD and Magnum AWD. I know this because I ordered rubber floor mats and when I noticed different version for the AWD, I asked to see why. The front passenger floor has a bulge in it to make space for AWD and the floor mat is shapped differently.
Wow, thank you very much for that GREAT post. I really appreciate your input. I have a much better understanding of AWD, FWD, and RWD. I wonder when the AWD will start arriving on lots. Thank you.
Congrats on your Magnum. I have been toying with the idea of buying a NEW car, I have always bought used. This will be my only car. I have been debating between the Acura TL and the 300C, the two best cars in my price range, in my humble opinion. But, I may add the Magnum to the list.
I have a wonderful husband who is totally into cars. He really wants the 300 touring signature series. Surprisingly it is not a bad price since most of what he dreams of are $100,000 cars LOL! He also found a contact who was willing to give us a CE# which is 3% off of MSRP. Before we got the number when we test drove at the dealership the sales guy said we would get the $1000 credit in addition to the CE# if we could get one. The problem is that we have to use the CE# before the end of the year. What is the security deposit and/or down payment? Any negotiation advice for me. Please help! I would really like to surprise my husband!
IMO, if you use a discount certificate, your negotiations are done. The $1000 additional is conditional on using DC financing (you can pay it off at any time without penalty). The deposit to order a car is at the dealer's discretion: $500 to $1000 is about standard.
He seems to have a lot of the scoop on current lease deals.
Wow, what a lucky man your husband is! A 300 will sure make a great holiday surprise.
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That;s correct...there are no negotiations when we take an employee deal or an affiliate deal - and obviously all available rebates still apply. The only negotiations left would be interest rate, warranty, etc - not normally huge factors on leases.
"I have a wonderful husband who is totally into cars. He really wants the 300 touring signature series. Surprisingly it is not a bad price since most of what he dreams of are $100,000 cars LOL!"
This part of the post describes me to the T'. My wife would laugh for two days if she read this.
My point was to state, in [an] answer to the question, "does the AWD version have the 'hump' on the floor of the [back] seat." The answer is "yes" of course. However, I did want the poster to have enough information to "reason out" this conclusion on his/her own -- I was not attempting to obfuscate the situation, even though I did, apparently.
The reply pertaining to the Dodge with AWD was informative, and I am happy to have more information -- but as I re read THAT answer it describes a somewhat bigger transmission hump in the front, and the original poster was asking about the rear seat hump.
I also read from the "spirit" of another's reply that he too "couldn't believe the question was being asked." I mistakenly, apparently, assumed this was either an attempt at being funny (which I welcome) or, as I started out a "trick question." It never came to my mind that an AWD Chrysler 300C which retains the RWD characteristic (obviously, I thought) and hence the "hump in the back" is NOT related to the car being AWD or RWD, since by definition they BOTH have Rear Driven Wheels.
I assumed that "we all must know" that AWD means both the Front and Rear wheels are driven -- therefore merely adding front drive to a rear drive platform would NOT change anything "aft" of the middle of the car to the driven wheels.
I'm taking too long to say, I am sorry for not just saying "yes" and moving on -- my intention was to be instructive not sardonic.
Moreover, an AWD and a RWD 300C would have to have the [rear seat] hump )transmission tunnel -- and I wanted the poster to come to this conclusion logically, to reason it out, that is -- since both the RWD and the AWD 300's do have the rear wheels driven and the power gets to them via a drive shaft.
The ONLY way to avoid a transmission tunnel would be to raise the ride height to a point where the floor pan was above the drive shaft.
I know this is NOT EXACTLY a "how does it work" forum. I am NOT an automotive engineer by any stretch -- however, I think a base-line of information about RWD, FWD and AWD cars would be to draw conclusions based on known or readily available information.
Front engined, rear drive cars, with the possible exceptions of cars like the Hudson Hornet from the 50's (which still had "mild" humps) have always had transmission tunnels -- AWD cars would continue to have tunnels (especially in the rear and with your input now we know that even the front hump is made more pronounced).
I understand that -- yet in my experience, the reply that comes to a question when my answer is "yes" or "no" is "why?"
In my years on this earth, I have learned that there are several types of people/personality traits:
How
What and
Why
My experience is that most start out as How people (computer programmers for instance know how to program a computer); then after some apprentice period of time become What people (those who know what to do to solve a problem -- often What people engage the services of How people); finally capstoning into Why people -- knowing why something is important or valuable (often Why people are strong What people who grew from How people). As I was "growing up" (career wise) I noticed in virtually every field that the progression was from How to What to Why.
Some folks remain at one level or progress one level -- part of the fascination I have with this forum is that I learn a lot -- and it has made me a better Why guy.
And finally, I have learned too, that the answer to many "yes and no" questions is "it all depends."
Again, sorry for being wired this way -- I'll be mindful of questions that DEMAND yes and no answers and be guided accordingly.
Comments
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Or put another way, the Chrysler 300C may be for those that have more brains than money...
Anyone who buys a Mercedes solely because they think that will project an image of their being "elite and prosperous" needs to work on their self-image.
I could spend all day linking "pimped out" MB's... all of the models, but since it's against the rules here, I will oblige. If the MB makes your image, then you need to work on your self image before impressing anyone with what you drive!
The engineering and numerous safety, conveience, comfort, and handling features found on a Mercedes is not found on a mere Chrysler
Unless you drive an AMG, then your reasoning is pointless!
Now take the Ferrari owner, and you see me getting out of it with my briefcase and executive attair, what do you think then?
The reason why many executive and wealthy professionals drive an upscale car, like a Benz, Audi, Jag, is because of the car's abilty to make any drive in it a pure driving experience with the expected levels of comfort and conveience.
I know a CEO who drives a Nissan Sentra.. we've spoken about cars on ocassion so I ask what does he drive and when he told me, I said he was lying until I saw the car (not even a new one). His reasoning is "I don't invest in cars, just houses".
So it really doesn't matter what interest a person may have and how they use their money. Apparently, he's more concerned about the "image" of his family, not his own!
And again I go back to this... WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF YOU! You can drive an Aston Martin DB9 and still be a jerk! Drive a Neon and be the best guy people can talk about and respect.
But if a car 'makes' your image, then that only tells me how insecure you are of yourself!
You can go now, we don't want any cookies today!
I don't buy a car for snob appeal, but for practical issues as noted above along with reasonable fuel economy. And it dismays me when I hear or listen to people bragging about being able to look down their noses at others driving lower cost cars. I can't afford brand new MB's which is why I buy them slightly used. I pay a lot less than sticker and the first owner has taken care of all the early nagging issues that have cropped up on MB's in the last 10 years or so. And I get to drive them for many years before I reach the 100K mark.
Bottom line is I still find myself looking at the 300's on the road and admiring them for their value and style, especially the vanilla color.. That color makes me think of similar colors seen on some of the cars from the 20's and 30's.. Great color..
And the 300 is not the first Chrysler car to show an improved reliabilty rating; CR has upped their ratings of the Neon and PT Cruiser as compared to earlier models from Chrysler. They are now fairly respectable in that respect.
And one of the richest people I ever met, Ken Olsen of Digital Equipment fame, drove a Ford even when he was CEO and President of DEC and making more money than any of us can imagine.. Back then, he probably could have bought MB, the company, not just a car, if he had wanted to. But he got a lot of respect and admiration for not showing off.
I am a Ferrari fan, and I spend lots of time dreaming about driving a 360 down the road.. Man, that car is gorgeuous, absolutely stunning!!!!!!
Go figure... thanks for wasting our time in debating what's obviously child's play for you. It's no wonder you're so concerned about "image".
Goodbye now!
*slams door*
Yes, Turtle Creek is indeed a super nice area. I am glad to be a Turtle Creek business owner.
Oh.... you're still here...
Ok, first my comment was not an offensive attack, I'm just bothered by the fact that you would "look down" on people based on what they drive. And if that's not your intention, it's definitely what you're doing.
...ministry leader
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you're religious or are a faith-based believer, then focus on being humble and get the car that "fits your needs" not your "image".
Therefore, I gave up my car completly, and now Im moving to closer to my office and in an area in Dallas where I can simply walk to work or take a cab to further destinations.
But I still have my eyes on that Mercedes E500...
Plus, I'm a retro kinda person which makes me love it even more! I.e. I really like the new Mustang, but as long as Ford is making it, I won't "buy" it. :-)
I think I would be a buyer for the 300C SRT8 if it will have wood trim, etc in it.
But I still feel tempted to get maybe an SL-class? my 19 year old friend is buying a SLK convetible or a Volvo XC90 and I just gotta top that...lol
Silver
I don't know if the 300C is a cheapie or not -- also I don't know if the 300C is a fad (style wise) or not. The only thing I have concluded -- and this only from reading and looking at one (not driving) at the dealership -- is that the 300C seems to be a lot of car for the money.
Now according to some magazine, CEO I think, the number one "executive" car over $50,000 is the Audi A8 and the number one "executive" car under $50,000 is the 300C.
I don't know if I saw someone get out of a 300C that I would think he/she was a "poser." If the carpet is thin and there is some hard plastic, I still look at the MSRP of a fully loaded 300C and it is just south of $40K -- the cars I am looking at, at this moment include the Audi A6 (~$51K), the Acura RL (~$50K), the Audi A4 3.2 (~$44K) and the 300C AWD (~$43K with all the toys). The Chrysler may be cheap and plasticky and may also be a fad. I will lease what I select for 36 months and NEVER be out of warranty from any of these cars -- so from a certain perspective this is NOT that much of an issue.
The 300C may be compared to low-end 300's bought used next year and allowed to deteriorate by the "poor" people who buy them, beats me.
I would think that a 300C or Mercedes or Cadillac or most vehicles will not be a measure of one's mettle, so to speak.
And, one last comment, the phrase [translated] "new rich" was simultaneously appropriate and apparently ignored by our 19 year old entrepreneur.
I have no quarrel with someone NOT liking my car and if I do select a 300C (or a new A6), I am certain there will be detractors. I will have issue, however (and no leg to stand on with respect to an argument) if my $40 or $50 thousand dollar car is compared with a $70 or $80 thousand dollar car. How could I even concoct legitimate comparisons at such price differentials?
When I finally drive one of these things, I may ultimately agree that the 300C is a cheaply constructed "poser" -- but for me to reach that conclusion, I will have to evaluate it against a comparably priced product -- NOT one that costs over 80% more.
But, of course, I could be wrong.
One of the guys who sold WebTV to Microsoft for $400 Million came to work in a Honda Civic. And I have a lot of respect for him. More so than if he had come with a Ferrari. I personally like understatement. Even if I had millions in the bank, I would still go with the 300C instead of the S500 or 745i. Because I value value.
I find that very hard to believe....the persuasive power of wealth will without doubt change your mind....lol
Amen !! This is one of my pet peeves! In my town, it seems that drivers think that the stop line is meant to line up with their REAR bumper !! Most of them block the pedestrian crosswalk area making it difficult for people in wheelchairs and the elderly to cross the road.
I drove 3 300's and although I am 6'3" I did not have a problem with the visibility in any direction from within the 300. I'm not sure why the editors are having a problem with the visibility.
You seem to be like all the adults who limit a person's ability by their age, gender, or educational background. In doing so, you exhibit obvious signs of your own insecurity and inability to achieve things you are truly passionate about.
kirstie_h
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The needed hardware to make the car FWD + RWD (or AWD) is added before the firewall, so nothing would change after the firewall.
There was a very pro AWD article in syndication this weekend about AWD and the number of cars (as a percentage of models) that come with it now, versus not long ago plus the upcoming already announced AWD versions already in the pipeline.
Despite complaints about the 300C's cheapness from some, I still am faced with the sense that the 300C is a lot of car for the money.
I read the upcoming feature/options that are coming to the 300 line -- one is rear seat DVD -- the Cadillac family offers this on some of their products. I know die hard Caddy fans do not like the comparison, but there is enough "stuff" in the 300C to make a comparison to the STS NOT THAT far out of the realm of possibility.
As an Audi fan and long time owner, imagine my chagrin when the Acrua RL and the 300C made Car and Driver's top ten list and Audi's new A6 did not.
Of course the luke warm review (from my perspective) of the new Acura in the latest Road and Track, also put me in a quandry of sorts -- now that I am merely awaiting the ability to test drive the Acura and the Chrysler.
This is a good time to be "almost" buying a new car -- the choices are diverse and legitimate (mostly) -- how refreshing.
Looking for any word here on the AWD 300C. . .
Does the RWD version have a hump?
See my prior reply #3734.
AWD is increasing in popularity.
RWD, once almost the total population of vehicles, then somehow cast off in favor of FWD, is -- again -- regaining much of its lost popularity.
FWD is hardly dead and gone, but in relative terms as 100 cars are sold with some being (now) all wheel drive and some rear wheel drive, front wheel drive is declining in popularity. Having said that, I would estimate that to this very day, FWD is still the dominant drive in our cars.
The "ideal" world seems to be believe in weight balanced RWD cars. While I understand and can theoretically support this notion -- there are many reasons that while pragmatic in nature, do support a general (and growing) consensus that all wheels driven are "preferable," if not technically "superior."
The reason often cited for the growing (and perhaps I should emphasize "rapidly" growing) popularity of AWD is/are the proliferation of trucks and SUV's. Indeed as [Americans] drivers discovered the go anywhere capability of SUV's, they started to wonder what a regular CAR would be like if it had AWD.
Audi and Subaru for years answered this question and for a time were about the only car companies that offered virtually all of their vehicles in AWD, either as standard or optional.
The fact that some of the highest performing versions of some car manufacturer's offerings are the AWD versions had also "encouraged" manufacturers to bring more AWD to market.
Take the DC company -- for a few years Mercedes offered one or a few 4Matic versions of their cars -- in the past two model years, the majority of Mercedes can now be had with or come standard with AWD. The 300C was a natural to get the AWD treatment -- in fact I was so certain it was a cinch to happen that I assumed it never would, because it was so logical and will, I am convinced, become a substantial portion (which is NOT the same as the majority) of the sales of 300's -- perhaps mostly in the 300C and SRT-8.
The reasons, money, technology, demand, performance, safety and fun -- break it down.
More revenue and income for the manufacturer; the technology is proven and improving, the milage "hit" is around 1mpg and for some is virtually zero; customers are demanding it -- there is no visual penalty for an AWD car, little fuel economy hit, as noted; no drivability issue (and the car is not 4 inches higher off the ground); on the highways and byways that we drive, a well designed AWD car will outperform either an FWD or RWD car in low and normal traction situations alike; AWD is sure fun when there is a dusting of snow over slush and your car "walks up a hill" while others are slip sliding away.
AWD for obvious reasons really is safer and/or is perceived as being safer -- and, after all, perception is reality.
Recently an article was published stating that by this time next year 38% of cars will be offered with AWD as either standard or a low cost option.
I do understand folks who live south of the snow belt commenting that AWD is a waste -- while I disagree, I would not attempt to sway their opinion, anymore than I will argue that ESP and ABS w/brake assist is an improvement that makes it a must have -- with someone who believes, sincerely believes otherwise.
I believe the best combination is:
a slightly rear biased AWD system coupled with ABS+brake assist and ESP. The Chrysler 300C is a huge step in this direction, even though it is not as well balanced as it could be to achieve automotive nirvana.
There is a wealth of info about AWD -- all over. Most of it does suggest AWD -- pragmatic ally -- is superior.
The 300C w/AWD and its 38/62 torque split (f to r) will be yet another forward move for this vehicle.
I am hoping for a test report of the SRT-8 AWD vs the STS AWD -- price independent and price dependent.
Thanks
Tammy
IMO, if you use a discount certificate, your negotiations are done. The $1000 additional is conditional on using DC financing (you can pay it off at any time without penalty). The deposit to order a car is at the dealer's discretion: $500 to $1000 is about standard.
Dick
Lease Questions - Ask Here
He seems to have a lot of the scoop on current lease deals.
Wow, what a lucky man your husband is! A 300 will sure make a great holiday surprise.
kirstie_h
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This part of the post describes me to the T'. My wife would laugh for two days if she read this.
The reply pertaining to the Dodge with AWD was informative, and I am happy to have more information -- but as I re read THAT answer it describes a somewhat bigger transmission hump in the front, and the original poster was asking about the rear seat hump.
I also read from the "spirit" of another's reply that he too "couldn't believe the question was being asked." I mistakenly, apparently, assumed this was either an attempt at being funny (which I welcome) or, as I started out a "trick question." It never came to my mind that an AWD Chrysler 300C which retains the RWD characteristic (obviously, I thought) and hence the "hump in the back" is NOT related to the car being AWD or RWD, since by definition they BOTH have Rear Driven Wheels.
I assumed that "we all must know" that AWD means both the Front and Rear wheels are driven -- therefore merely adding front drive to a rear drive platform would NOT change anything "aft" of the middle of the car to the driven wheels.
I'm taking too long to say, I am sorry for not just saying "yes" and moving on -- my intention was to be instructive not sardonic.
Moreover, an AWD and a RWD 300C would have to have the [rear seat] hump )transmission tunnel -- and I wanted the poster to come to this conclusion logically, to reason it out, that is -- since both the RWD and the AWD 300's do have the rear wheels driven and the power gets to them via a drive shaft.
The ONLY way to avoid a transmission tunnel would be to raise the ride height to a point where the floor pan was above the drive shaft.
I know this is NOT EXACTLY a "how does it work" forum. I am NOT an automotive engineer by any stretch -- however, I think a base-line of information about RWD, FWD and AWD cars would be to draw conclusions based on known or readily available information.
Front engined, rear drive cars, with the possible exceptions of cars like the Hudson Hornet from the 50's (which still had "mild" humps) have always had transmission tunnels -- AWD cars would continue to have tunnels (especially in the rear and with your input now we know that even the front hump is made more pronounced).
In my years on this earth, I have learned that there are several types of people/personality traits:
How
What and
Why
My experience is that most start out as How people (computer programmers for instance know how to program a computer); then after some apprentice period of time become What people (those who know what to do to solve a problem -- often What people engage the services of How people); finally capstoning into Why people -- knowing why something is important or valuable (often Why people are strong What people who grew from How people). As I was "growing up" (career wise) I noticed in virtually every field that the progression was from How to What to Why.
Some folks remain at one level or progress one level -- part of the fascination I have with this forum is that I learn a lot -- and it has made me a better Why guy.
And finally, I have learned too, that the answer to many "yes and no" questions is "it all depends."
Again, sorry for being wired this way -- I'll be mindful of questions that DEMAND yes and no answers and be guided accordingly.
Mea Culpa
You must have a 'faithful client' status at your nearest Starbucks!