Hmmm, I grew up in Michigan, driving RWD Chrysler products no less. I now live in New Hampshire (in fact, my town is getting its 100th inch of snow this season as we speak) and still drive a RWD car. What I don't understand is why do folks automatically think that if they switch from FWD to RWD that they will "go spinning off into oncoming traffic in cold, wet, snowy conditions."
I've probably driven 100,000 miles in said conditions in RWD cars, and I have yet to "go spinning off into oncoming traffic."
AWD? Who needs it. Just give me a set of nice winter tires and I'll get from point A to point B just as fast and just as safely as an AWD equipped car shod with All-Season tires. I'll do it for less money too. ;-)
I don't know if I'm the only one that feels this way, but I'm really disappointed in Chrysler's designs over the last few years. I think '99 was possibly the best design year for Chrysler and if you look at their sales figures, it was also their biggest year for profits.
The introduction of the 300M, the Jeep Grand Cherokee redesign, the Dodge Durango, which was just introduced in '98 and was still selling like mad, were just all great designs. Not to mention the fact that Chrysler had the Sebring convertible design from '96 that still looked beautiful.
I've owned three Chrysler vehicles now and I used to be so impassioned about their designs, and actually would even defend Chrysler's nagging quality problems, that I, myself experienced, in one of my Sebrings, when the electrical system just failed with under 40K miles on it.
It used to be that I could defend the quality problems by stating how Chrysler has such awesome style, that because the designs are so cool, you can look past that. Recently, I've felt that I've just lost interest in everything Chrysler has to offer.
Chrysler was the last American automobile company that actually caught your eye on the road. Their designs were, for a time, the best on the road. Now, however, things have changed.
Chrysler first redesigned the Sebring convertible which was ok, but definitely not as fluid as the previous model. Then they redesigned the Dodge Ram, notably, the only redesign that actually looks better. Then came the redesign for the Dodge Durango, which has to be the worst follow up for a vehicle I've ever seen, repellent! The redesign of the Jeep Grand Cherokee is dismal, and a definite step backward compared to what they brought to the public offering in '99.
After, much anticipation, and crossing my fingers that maybe Chrysler would come out with something that would exemplify Chrysler style, their flagship sedan, the 300 series, they do the redesign and we're left with this, the 300. I'm not saying that the redesign of the 300 is bad, because honestly it's not, but seriously it's like everything else on the road, another box. It's such a letdown when compared with the jaw dropping design of the 300M.
Chrysler, yet again has missed the mark, and now we're left with a design that is distinct, which is why most people are buying it I assume, but on the same token, not very "pretty" and overly bland. The 300 looks to me like a rehashed Mercedes, very square, very boring. The 300M, was classy and smooth. It was a beautiful vehicle, with wonderful interior elements such as an electroluminescent instrument cluster that set the industry standard for "cool" factor, that other car companies, have since then imitated, and an exterior that made one stare and just think to themselves, "I want that."
Now all the redesigns are just painful to look at, and I'm forced to conclude that the last great American automotive company has died, and in place of it we have MB with its boxy designs and people actually thinking they are cool. If you already didn't know, the 300 has a suspension built of the MB E-class and after looking at it, one can finally conclude that Chrysler is going down a very Mercedes influenced path with its styling, yet trying to stand out, even if that means having loud designs that don't necessarily look better than the models they're replacing.
The redesigns at Chrysler have been sacrilege, and this final nail in the coffin 300 is just a testament as to why I won't be expecting anything worthwhile from Chrysler anytime soon. Maybe Chrysler could take note from companies like Lexus when doing redesigns. When you have something that works, why try to "fix" it? Lexus has made their hot cars evolutionary, more so than revolutionary and people have responded positively. Their redesign of the RX300 to the RX330 was flawless, and undeniably better. Although, its design is not that much different, it still is Lexus's #1 seller.
Designs don't have to be drastically different in order to gain market share. Maybe Chrysler should start concentrating more on reliability and less on design because they seemed to have had 1 of the 2 in recent years and now, as it seems, both evade them. Chrysler has thrown everything away and is starting from scratch with almost every new vehicle launch, when in my opinion they really don't, nor should have to. Just my thoughts, and for all of the 300 owners who are enthusiasts, I don't think the 300 is a bad looking vehicle, I just feel the 300M had "something" deep under it's sheetmetal, almost a soul, that just isn't there with the 300.
I decided to say add one more thing to this. When I think of the design of the 300, I immediately am reminded of the PT Cruiser, and how much I hated that design when it came out. People liked/bought it because it was different, almost mob style, just like the new 300. Sales have since dried up, and it is no surprise. The design wow factor of it being so different, discipated quickly, and people realized that it is a pretty ugly looking vehicle. This is what I have a good feeling is going to happen with the new 300 series.
Finally, time and time again, I've heard that these new Chrysler designs have to "grow on you". Any design that has to grow on me, is a design I don't like and one I surely will not make myself like because of brand loyalty. Chrysler designs, at the moment, are a joke when compared to what they once were, but this is my opinion. Vehicle opinions, at least, aesthetically, are subjective to each and every individual, and each and every individual is entitled to their opinion. Later everybody.
***The '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee had record breaking sales records, and the old style Dodge Durango was hailed as a designing triumph. The 300M received the Motor Trend:Car of the Year Award as well. Do the new designs, that are so boxy, and so similar to the 300 in a blunt cut metal style design, look better than the latter. Definitely not, and they all can be grouped together, ugly, possibly distinct with the 300, but a step backward in design prowess, not a step forward. I tried to make myself like the new 300, but I just couldn't.***
Thanks for the repost. I agree with most of your observations. Also my concern is where does Chrysler go from here with the 300? How do they keep it fresh? You can stay with a retro square look for only a limited amount of time.
I bought the 300C Limited. My 5 previous cars were all BMWs. Once I saw the car I fell in love. After I drove it I was hooked. I can't believe it is a Chrysler. I sold Chrysler in "78" and "79" and in those days you got a tow truck free with the purchase. I swore I would never own a Chrysler. This car is amazing. It is comfortable, quiet, and handles well for a big car. Love the Nav system, Satellite radio, and sound system. Everywhere I go people look at the car.
I am not a tall person 5'11, If I pull up to the stop line at a traffic light in my New 300C I can't see the traffic light, Has anyone developed a periscope or a prism that you could mount on the dash board?
I would love to hear your opinions. I tried to read them, however, i kep't losing track. I guess they never taught you in school how to use paragraphs.
Ship, I have always enjoyed your posts on the various boards. You are courteous, honest, and helpful. I am curious as to your honest opinion of the 300C. Do you like it? If so, why? If not, why? Would you own one, why or why not? And, do you think it will hold value, or depreciate as other Chrysler products have? Why? Best Regards.
Why do I like it? Hmmm, it's got attitude, size, power and a certain cachet that is hard to describe. Probably the only thing I don't like about it is its ability to handle a nice twisty road. Of course I'm a bit jaded in that regard as I'm currently driving a 530i with the SP option, one of the best handling sedans in the world.
Would I own one? Errr, well, I'm currently planning on fetching an E90 330i through the ED program from Munich next year, and sometime within a year after that, my wife is probably going to be due for a new car, and the 300C is currently the leading candidate for that position (we'll keep her current Caravan as a spare/vacation car/Home Depot hack).
Do I think that it will hold its value? Probably not as well as a BMW, but most likely much better than most (if not all) other Chrysler products. Why? Because I think the car is a winner and contrary to many naysayers, I don't think that it is just a passing trend, as such, the demand should stay high, thus keeping the resale value high as well.
had the transmission replaced at 3000 miles.looks like after all the4 problems I had, the new one is not going to do the job. next move lemon law, they will have to give me new car. next I e-mail chrysler about the lousy tires they have on the 2.7 told them I don't feel save on a $65.00 dollar tire, there response was complain to the dealer or to good year,they don't want to hear anything about it.the tires are no good in snow, and the same on wet road. not happy with there answer.
Shipo, thank you very much. As usual, you gave a well thought out, honest, and helpful reply. I am in the process of looking for a new car to drive, and I have been making the rounds. I too am interested in the new E90, but I don't think the leg room is going to cut it for me. Hence, my interest in looking at the 300C. I guess I am just a little apprehensive about depreciation. I remember the great reviews of the 300m, and the fast depreciation. I also have seen the fast depreciation of the Lincoln LS, which is a fine car, but did not hold value.
Mine comes in Wed! Can't wait. Vanilla hemi. I'm in northern Arizona. It's coming by train from ( I guess Canada ), down into Phoenix, then trucked up north to me. Woo Hoo! Peace out.
I have a 1956 Oldsmobile with a outside sun visor over the windshield. In order for me to see the traffic lights I have added what is called a traffic light viewer. It is attached at the front of the dash (where the dash and windshield meet) in front of the driver. It is a prism. I tested a 300 and found the same problem. The view is ok if you are the second car or more from the light. Get a viewer from e-bay if you can find someone who is selling them but I don't think you will have any place to mount it. So the bottom line is the narrow windshield is a built in feature of the design, hot rod style.
I live in Bermuda, have lived in snowy areas, want to buy a fully loaded 300C AWD sometime in July or August - preferably in Mass or New Hampshire. What is COSTCO? $ 500 over invoice sounds like my kind of deal! What was the name of the dealer?
I'll let someone else take on the COSTCO question as I've never even seen one.
Regarding the purchase location, I think that there is a significant difference between what you will pay for the Sales Tax between the two states you mentioned as New Hampshire has NO sales tax.
You could have heard my opinion if you actually would've looked a little further down when I reposted with paragraphs for that request, which was also in the forum. I was in a rush, when I first posted. Sorry, I guess they never taught you how to skim properly in high school and, in addition, most likely, never taught you about being blunt and rude. Cheers. :-D
PS - Somebody already agreed with my opinion, and was very nice, so don't strain yourself responding now.
I really don't understand the fixation some people have on depreciation.
How long do you keep your cars? Every car will depreciate -- the more you pay, the more it will depreciate. A $35,000 300C that depreciates to 54% of it's value in three years is worth $18,900. The depreciation cost is $16,100.
A Lexus $55,000 GS430 that depreciates to 60% of its value in three years is worth $33,000. The depreciation cost is $22,000.
Either way you lose, and generally, the more you pay, the more you lose. It's the nature of the beast!
Aslo, I personally disagree with the " fast depreciation" comment on the 300M. My wife totalled her 2001 300M in 2004 @ 37,500 miles. We bought that car new in 2001 @ $24,988 and received over $19,000 from our insurance company as a settlement in 2004. The depreciation was only ~ $6,000 or 24% over three years. This settlement was based on similar sales values L.A. area) at the time.
So, IMHO, I would stop worrying about depreciation and get the car that stirs your soul...
I appreciate your comments. I happen to believe depreciation is a very important part of buying a car. I do disagree the following comment "A Lexus $55,000 GS430 that depreciates to 60% of its value in three years is worth $33,000. The depreciation cost is $22,000. Either way you lose, and generally, the more you pay, the more you lose. It's the nature of the beast!"
Well, I would say you are ahead, because your car, after three years of driving, has maintained 60% of its value, $33,000. That is incredible.
Again, those poor people that bought a Lincoln LS for $44,000 grand, only to see their car worth $22,000 after two years. If any Chrysler car has a chance of retaining value, it is the 300c. I just am not convinced yet.
I bought a 300 Touring Edition in November and almost immediately noticed my main dashboard lights flickering intermittently. Sometimes it's a fast flicker and sometimes it's stays dim for a few seconds before going bright again. This includes the speedometer lights and the radio lights. It seems to happen frequently when I'm sitting at stop lights. The first time I took it in, they reset the system, which didn't work. The second time they upgraded the software apparently and it has done it once or twice since but not as frequently. Has anyone else experienced this problem and had success correcting it?
"Well, I would say you are ahead, because your car, after three years of driving, has maintained 60% of its value, $33,000. That is incredible."
I guess that's why I don't understand the fixation on depreciation. If I had lost $22,000 on my $55,000 "investment" in three years, I would have a hard time consoling myself in the knowledge that my "investment" was still worth $33,000.
My point is that a car is not really an investment, but an expense, and the more you pay, the more it costs you over time. With that knowledge, I still say buy the car you want to drive (if you can afford it) and accept the fact that it is going to cost you money to do so. Hopefully less than $22,000 over 3 years...
I know it's there for my own good. Call it a friendly reminder to a safer driving experience. I don't care, how do I turn that darn cry for attention alert off when I don't feel like buckling my seat belt? Someone has got to know.
With rare exceptions cars are NOT investments, they are "assets" -- rapidly depreciating assets.
Anything that can be done to slow this depreciation down, however, will have at least one positive effect: the expense will be lower, whether you buy, lease or finance.
Go for the car with the highest residual -- if you like it, that is -- and you will be better off financially.
Don't get a car because of that however, especially if you would be unhappy with the car from all the other aspects of car ownership.
I would think the 300C may retain its value a tad better than some other American cars -- the used market will be the arbiter of this, however.
Anyone have any tales they would like to tell about a 300C AWD?
As a longtime BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, Land Rover owner - I purchased a Black/Medium slate 300C - loaded - yesterday. Have to say it's an awesome vehicle that covers a lot of bases and needs. Big power, luxury, roominess, safety, features, speed... all adds up to value when you consider the price. Way to go Chrysler!
Well, bad news on my Vanilla Hemi. Now they are saying it got stuck in a snowstorm somewhere between Kansas and Phoenix. MAYBE it'll be into Phoenix by thurs-then transprted up north to me. I wonder if it could be affected by snow or rust in that situation? I NEED IT BY FRI! Bummed.
"I wonder if it could be affected by snow or rust in that situation?"
Not much likelihood of that. We have three cars and only a two car garage, meaning that one of them has to sit out in the snow. So there she sits, our 1998 Caravan, which I have routinely seen with over two feet of snow on top of her. That doesn't seem to stop her though, all I need to do is dig out her nose, fire her up and out she pops from her white cocoon. ;-)
Sorry your Vanilla is delayed. But don't worry it won't melt or be damaged by snow. Snow doesn't hurt cars any more than does rain. What hurts cars that drive in snow is the stuff the highway department put on the road to melt the snow and ice. ENJOY.
Does anybody know when the 300 series will come out. I asked a salesman and he said Aug or Sept. Not sure if he knew for sure, he didn't make any effort to find out. My next door neighbour worked at the plant where they are made but he left he job in Jan. He if was still working there I am sure he could tell me.
Wow - You don't like the 300c! As others have said "to each his own". I've got my 300c last May. I still get the looks and the questions about the car everywhere I go. It was even used in three weddings over the summer where it proved to be a great hit. A week after I got the car I took it to an "open" car show - Any make, model or year. It was voted crowd favorite! I felt sorry for the other cars in the row next to me. Folks would just be walking by other vehicles and stop and check out the 300c! EVERYONE loved it. This was the first Chrysler that ever got mine or my wife's attention. She spotted it on the lot and had to have it. We traded in an 2002 Olds Bravada (AWD) and live in Northern PA. and haven't had a bit of trouble with the rear wheel drive this winter. Goes like a champ. Also I agree with some of the other folks - the Lexus RX300? - My wife says the big "L" on the front of these vehicles must stand for "loser"
Have not a big fan of Chryslers for a long time because of their quality issues, but I thought I give the 300 a try. I have to say WOW. Could not believe the ride, comfort, quiet cabin over bumps, handling, the feel of being in a solid car and the performance of the 6 cylinder. My wife had second thoughts about testing driving it, she wasn't sure if it would be her cup of tea, she liked the styling but not really nuts about it. Well within a few minutes she said we got to get one. Compared it to others and the Buick Allure seemed to come close (domestic),but not real close. Did not try any foreign cars as I think alot of them would be way out of our league price wise and would have to pay more for them than what you get with the 300. So still unsure about a Chrysler and the quality issues. I would like to think it will or has improved. They have spent well over a billion dollars on revamping the plant where they build them and hope that money also reached and improved their quality. Thoughts..anybody
In 29 years of car and truck ownership, I have had far fewer quality issues with my Mopar products than my GM products. Have never owned a Ford product so cannot comment. I could not be happier with the quality of my new Dodge Magnum or of the 1997 Chrysler Town & Country that it replaced. The van had only one non-routine service item in 8 years of ownership.
Have to agree with you regarding the quality of their trucks. They have been a lot better then their vans and cars. A friend of mine, a mechanic, has owned various Dodge pick ups in the past 20 or so years and doesn't seem to have any problems. But I still think their vans and cars have been worse than average.
"But I still think their vans and cars have been worse than average."
Hmmm, I haven't seen any evidence to support that. In our case, we have not just one Caravan, we have two. They have a combined 140,000 miles on them (86,000 on our 1998 GC Sport with the 3.8 liter mill, and 52,000 on our 2003 GC ES, also with the 3.8), and the only two unscheduled maintenance items between the two were a dead battery at 50,000 miles on our 1998 and a worn out door switch for the interior lighting, also on the 1998, this time at about 85,000 miles.
The flip side of that are the other non-DC mini-Vans that folks around me own. A business associate of mine has a Ford Windstar, of the same vintage and about the same trim level and number of miles as our 1998, and to date, it has cost him over $6,000 in unscheduled maintenance! There are also three Honda Odysseys on our street, and of the three, two have required new transmissions (one of them twice), and all three have had a whole host of annoying little problems that have caused a fair amount of money to be sunk into repairs.
Yeah, yeah, I know, two Caravans do not a scientific study make. Having said that, DC mini-Vans seem pretty rock solid reliable from where I sit.
In Canada where I live we have 2 automotive watch dogs that suggested if you buy a DC product to make sure you get the manufactures extended warranty. They often get complaints from owners who have had numerous problems with the AC, transmissions, electrical and other problems. They say the same for the Ford Windstar and any Ford product. They also mentioned the Honda having tranny problems with certain years. We have a book published ever year called the Car Lemon Aid. They list all cars and vans and trucks and have for years given DC products a "not recommended" too many problems. They even say the Altima has its fair share of problems and is not recommended as a buy. Not sure what JD Power says. But you are right, not all of the same cars built will have the same problems. Its a crap shoot.
They must be doing something right! Thru feb 05 year to date sales are as follows; 300 = 22,777. Buick Lesabre = 12,463. Mercury Grand Marquis = 12,415. Buick Lacrosse = 11,408. Pontiac Gran Prix = 11,462. Cadillac CTS = 7,972. Cadillac Deville = 7,196. Infinity G35 = 7,152. Toyota Avalon = 6,808. Lincoln Town Car = 6,582. Please note I am only comparing size NOT quality or price.
Short story: My 2006 300C is scheduled to be shipped on Mar 30 05. Have the VIN#/VON#, paperwork states the car was ordered on Jan 28 05.
Long Story: I ordered a 2005 300C in late Jun 04. Got the friends and family discount and $1K rebate for financing through Chrysler. Also locked 3.9% through my credit union and planned to refinance at my earliest convenience...also beat the Jul price increase.
After many months of talking to the contract employees at the 800 number I learned that my 2005 order was cancelled. The 1-800 employee didn't know anything other than the fact that the order was gone.
A couple days later I contacted my dealer who confirmed that the order was cancelled and was going to look into it. Got a call later, my order was changed to a 2006 and I was going to get one of the first ones delivered to that dealer. Haven't heard if they will honor the Jun 05 price and rebate. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Anyone who has recently graduated from college should pursue the college grad program. At the time I applied it was for associate, under grad, and graduate degrees. There were lots of ways to take advantage and the degree could be 2-3 years old. Hit the web site and click on "contact us" and look under special offers. I filled in some information and printed a certificate with a control number. The offer at the time was 1% below invoice (+$25 fee) and the only restriction was on the SRT models.
The wait has been long but I'm a patient person. I tend to keep cars for 10+ years. My experience with Chrysler has been good. Still driving our 94 TC, 150K miles and still goin
My first 300 was a 1966 I bought new and it was my last. Until I got my 300C ordered it in April got it in September.Love the car but did have some problems with it but so-far they have been taken care of.
USAToday reports GM is postponing its new rear wheel drive car platform. The writer speculates that GM feels it cannot compete with 300C at that price. The 300C is referred to as a "watershed" car.
Just picked up my new, brilliant black 300C tonight. Fully, and completely, loaded.
Wow, what a car.
Yesterday went shopping for all kinds of different cars, test drove the 300C, and now I own one.
I have always liked the 300C, and it was always at the top of my list, but back to back test drives reminded me of how great this car really is. It simply blew everything else away.
Now after getting to spend more then 10 minutes driving it, it's simply stunning.
I said to my wife, as we were cruising along, "Ya know, every man, women and child should own this car!" Of course she then said "No! Then it wouldn't be unique."
But I don't care if there are a million of them on the road, it's still a fantastic car, period.
By the way, my 2002 Jaguar S-Type V8 Sport, got kicked out of the garage tonight, and will be spending the rest of it's time outside. (Lease return next month.)
i just recently bought a brand new chrysler 300c HEMI. All i have to say is wow wat a car. I have been waiting a long time with this much class to be at a reasonable price, and have a good amount of power. Also it has such a sleak design and the interior is jsut wow. Backseat is very roomy, and the front of the car is really nice. One other hting that it really cool about car is the sweet upgrades u can add liek grill, extra wood around the radio and air condition controles. Its about time chrysler got the attention it deserves!!
What are residuals like for 36 months, 36,000 miles? I have a concern that these cars are a hot fad now selling for near sticker and will not be so desireable new or used in a few years when the style starts looking dated and/or if they prove to have a lot more problems than expected when they get older. Buying a car for near MSRP that doesn't end up retaining above average value at resale is a horrific nightmare. At least if you lease you won't have to worry about it (since you have an agreed-upon resale value set in stone) as long as you don't go over the mileage.
I must say I just read the Edmund's comparison between full size cars and was again baffled by the apparent lack of detail that was paid to what can be had with the Chrysler 300. They mention on more than one occasion that the V-6 paired with the Chrysler Limited was not as powerful as hoped, but fail to mention you can get the V-8 and the 5 speed automatic (which they also wanted), and an upgrade in trim, and still come in under the price they paid for the Avalon.
Rather than trying to attack the Chrysler 300 for what it's known for and that is it's power at a cheap price how about telling the reader's what you get at each price point?
While the V-6 in the Avalon is the only engine offered no matter what trim you pick what do you loose in amenities by picking a lower trim? In order to get majority of the options that most people pick do you have to spend the 37K?
Comments
I've probably driven 100,000 miles in said conditions in RWD cars, and I have yet to "go spinning off into oncoming traffic."
AWD? Who needs it. Just give me a set of nice winter tires and I'll get from point A to point B just as fast and just as safely as an AWD equipped car shod with All-Season tires. I'll do it for less money too. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
The introduction of the 300M, the Jeep Grand Cherokee redesign, the Dodge Durango, which was just introduced in '98 and was still selling like mad, were just all great designs. Not to mention the fact that Chrysler had the Sebring convertible design from '96 that still looked beautiful.
I've owned three Chrysler vehicles now and I used to be so impassioned about their designs, and actually would even defend Chrysler's nagging quality problems, that I, myself experienced, in one of my Sebrings, when the electrical system just failed with under 40K miles on it.
It used to be that I could defend the quality problems by stating how Chrysler has such awesome style, that because the designs are so cool, you can look past that. Recently, I've felt that I've just lost interest in everything Chrysler has to offer.
Chrysler was the last American automobile company that actually caught your eye on the road. Their designs were, for a time, the best on the road. Now, however, things have changed.
Chrysler first redesigned the Sebring convertible which was ok, but definitely not as fluid as the previous model. Then they redesigned the Dodge Ram, notably, the only redesign that actually looks better. Then came the redesign for the Dodge Durango, which has to be the worst follow up for a vehicle I've ever seen, repellent! The redesign of the Jeep Grand Cherokee is dismal, and a definite step backward compared to what they brought to the public offering in '99.
After, much anticipation, and crossing my fingers that maybe Chrysler would come out with something that would exemplify Chrysler style, their flagship sedan, the 300 series, they do the redesign and we're left with this, the 300. I'm not saying that the redesign of the 300 is bad, because honestly it's not, but seriously it's like everything else on the road, another box. It's such a letdown when compared with the jaw dropping design of the 300M.
Chrysler, yet again has missed the mark, and now we're left with a design that is distinct, which is why most people are buying it I assume, but on the same token, not very "pretty" and overly bland. The 300 looks to me like a rehashed Mercedes, very square, very boring. The 300M, was classy and smooth. It was a beautiful vehicle, with wonderful interior elements such as an electroluminescent instrument cluster that set the industry standard for "cool" factor, that other car companies, have since then imitated, and an exterior that made one stare and just think to themselves, "I want that."
Now all the redesigns are just painful to look at, and I'm forced to conclude that the last great American automotive company has died, and in place of it we have MB with its boxy designs and people actually thinking they are cool. If you already didn't know, the 300 has a suspension built of the MB E-class and after looking at it, one can finally conclude that Chrysler is going down a very Mercedes influenced path with its styling, yet trying to stand out, even if that means having loud designs that don't necessarily look better than the models they're replacing.
The redesigns at Chrysler have been sacrilege, and this final nail in the coffin 300 is just a testament as to why I won't be expecting anything worthwhile from Chrysler anytime soon. Maybe Chrysler could take note from companies like Lexus when doing redesigns. When you have something that works, why try to "fix" it? Lexus has made their hot cars evolutionary, more so than revolutionary and people have responded positively. Their redesign of the RX300 to the RX330 was flawless, and undeniably better. Although, its design is not that much different, it still is Lexus's #1 seller.
Designs don't have to be drastically different in order to gain market share. Maybe Chrysler should start concentrating more on reliability and less on design because they seemed to have had 1 of the 2 in recent years and now, as it seems, both evade them. Chrysler has thrown everything away and is starting from scratch with almost every new vehicle launch, when in my opinion they really don't, nor should have to. Just my thoughts, and for all of the 300 owners who are enthusiasts, I don't think the 300 is a bad looking vehicle, I just feel the 300M had "something" deep under it's sheetmetal, almost a soul, that just isn't there with the 300.
I decided to say add one more thing to this. When I think of the design of the 300, I immediately am reminded of the PT Cruiser, and how much I hated that design when it came out. People liked/bought it because it was different, almost mob style, just like the new 300. Sales have since dried up, and it is no surprise. The design wow factor of it being so different, discipated quickly, and people realized that it is a pretty ugly looking vehicle. This is what I have a good feeling is going to happen with the new 300 series.
Finally, time and time again, I've heard that these new Chrysler designs have to "grow on you". Any design that has to grow on me, is a design I don't like and one I surely will not make myself like because of brand loyalty. Chrysler designs, at the moment, are a joke when compared to what they once were, but this is my opinion. Vehicle opinions, at least, aesthetically, are subjective to each and every individual, and each and every individual is entitled to their opinion. Later everybody.
***The '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee had record breaking sales records, and the old style Dodge Durango was hailed as a designing triumph. The 300M received the Motor Trend:Car of the Year Award as well. Do the new designs, that are so boxy, and so similar to the 300 in a blunt cut metal style design, look better than the latter. Definitely not, and they all can be grouped together, ugly, possibly distinct with the 300, but a step backward in design prowess, not a step forward. I tried to make myself like the new 300, but I just couldn't.***
I gave up.
Best Regards.
Thanks! ;-)
[/Blushing]
Hmmm, my honest opinion of the 300C... Well, I love it. If I could tear myself away from driving cars with three pedals (see my post about that from yesterday: shipo, "Entry-Level Luxury Performance Sedans" #3301, 11 Mar 2005 12:11 pm), it would certainly be a top candidate for my next car.
Why do I like it? Hmmm, it's got attitude, size, power and a certain cachet that is hard to describe. Probably the only thing I don't like about it is its ability to handle a nice twisty road. Of course I'm a bit jaded in that regard as I'm currently driving a 530i with the SP option, one of the best handling sedans in the world.
Would I own one? Errr, well, I'm currently planning on fetching an E90 330i through the ED program from Munich next year, and sometime within a year after that, my wife is probably going to be due for a new car, and the 300C is currently the leading candidate for that position (we'll keep her current Caravan as a spare/vacation car/Home Depot hack).
Do I think that it will hold its value? Probably not as well as a BMW, but most likely much better than most (if not all) other Chrysler products. Why? Because I think the car is a winner and contrary to many naysayers, I don't think that it is just a passing trend, as such, the demand should stay high, thus keeping the resale value high as well.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I'm in northern Arizona. It's coming by train from ( I guess Canada ), down into Phoenix, then trucked up north to me.
Woo Hoo!
Peace out.
Regarding the purchase location, I think that there is a significant difference between what you will pay for the Sales Tax between the two states you mentioned as New Hampshire has NO sales tax.
Best Regards,
Shipo
PS - Somebody already agreed with my opinion, and was very nice, so don't strain yourself responding now.
How long do you keep your cars? Every car will depreciate -- the more you pay, the more it will depreciate. A $35,000 300C that depreciates to 54% of it's value in three years is worth $18,900. The depreciation cost is $16,100.
A Lexus $55,000 GS430 that depreciates to 60% of its value in three years is worth $33,000. The depreciation cost is $22,000.
Either way you lose, and generally, the more you pay, the more you lose. It's the nature of the beast!
Aslo, I personally disagree with the " fast depreciation" comment on the 300M. My wife totalled her 2001 300M in 2004 @ 37,500 miles. We bought that car new in 2001 @ $24,988 and received over $19,000 from our insurance company as a settlement in 2004. The depreciation was only ~ $6,000 or 24% over three years. This settlement was based on similar sales values L.A. area) at the time.
So, IMHO, I would stop worrying about depreciation and get the car that stirs your soul...
Well, I would say you are ahead, because your car, after three years of driving, has maintained 60% of its value, $33,000. That is incredible.
Again, those poor people that bought a Lincoln LS for $44,000 grand, only to see their car worth $22,000 after two years. If any Chrysler car has a chance of retaining value, it is the 300c. I just am not convinced yet.
I guess that's why I don't understand the fixation on depreciation. If I had lost $22,000 on my $55,000 "investment" in three years, I would have a hard time consoling myself in the knowledge that my "investment" was still worth $33,000.
My point is that a car is not really an investment, but an expense, and the more you pay, the more it costs you over time. With that knowledge, I still say buy the car you want to drive (if you can afford it) and accept the fact that it is going to cost you money to do so. Hopefully less than $22,000 over 3 years...
With rare exceptions cars are NOT investments, they are "assets" -- rapidly depreciating assets.
Anything that can be done to slow this depreciation down, however, will have at least one positive effect: the expense will be lower, whether you buy, lease or finance.
Go for the car with the highest residual -- if you like it, that is -- and you will be better off financially.
Don't get a car because of that however, especially if you would be unhappy with the car from all the other aspects of car ownership.
I would think the 300C may retain its value a tad better than some other American cars -- the used market will be the arbiter of this, however.
Anyone have any tales they would like to tell about a 300C AWD?
I wonder if it could be affected by snow or rust in that situation?
I NEED IT BY FRI!
Bummed.
Not much likelihood of that. We have three cars and only a two car garage, meaning that one of them has to sit out in the snow. So there she sits, our 1998 Caravan, which I have routinely seen with over two feet of snow on top of her. That doesn't seem to stop her though, all I need to do is dig out her nose, fire her up and out she pops from her white cocoon. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Sorry your Vanilla is delayed. But don't worry it won't melt or be damaged by snow. Snow doesn't hurt cars any more than does rain. What hurts cars that drive in snow is the stuff the highway department put on the road to melt the snow and ice. ENJOY.
I asked a salesman and he said Aug or Sept. Not sure if he knew for sure, he didn't make any effort to find out. My next door neighbour worked at the plant where they are made but he left he job in Jan. He if was still working there I am sure he could tell me.
Thoughts..anybody
A friend of mine, a mechanic, has owned various Dodge pick ups in the past 20 or so years and doesn't seem to have any problems.
But I still think their vans and cars have been worse than average.
Hmmm, I haven't seen any evidence to support that. In our case, we have not just one Caravan, we have two. They have a combined 140,000 miles on them (86,000 on our 1998 GC Sport with the 3.8 liter mill, and 52,000 on our 2003 GC ES, also with the 3.8), and the only two unscheduled maintenance items between the two were a dead battery at 50,000 miles on our 1998 and a worn out door switch for the interior lighting, also on the 1998, this time at about 85,000 miles.
The flip side of that are the other non-DC mini-Vans that folks around me own. A business associate of mine has a Ford Windstar, of the same vintage and about the same trim level and number of miles as our 1998, and to date, it has cost him over $6,000 in unscheduled maintenance! There are also three Honda Odysseys on our street, and of the three, two have required new transmissions (one of them twice), and all three have had a whole host of annoying little problems that have caused a fair amount of money to be sunk into repairs.
Yeah, yeah, I know, two Caravans do not a scientific study make. Having said that, DC mini-Vans seem pretty rock solid reliable from where I sit.
Best Regard,
Shipo
They say the same for the Ford Windstar and any Ford product. They also mentioned the Honda having tranny problems with certain years. We have a book published ever year called the Car Lemon Aid. They list all cars and vans and trucks and have for years given DC products a "not recommended" too many problems. They even say the Altima has its fair share of problems and is not recommended as a buy. Not sure what JD Power says.
But you are right, not all of the same cars built will have the same problems. Its a crap shoot.
My 2006 300C is scheduled to be shipped on Mar 30 05. Have the VIN#/VON#, paperwork states the car was ordered on Jan 28 05.
Long Story: I ordered a 2005 300C in late Jun 04. Got the friends and family discount and $1K rebate for financing through Chrysler. Also locked 3.9% through my credit union and planned to refinance at my earliest convenience...also beat the Jul price increase.
After many months of talking to the contract employees at the 800 number I learned that my 2005 order was cancelled. The 1-800 employee didn't know anything other than the fact that the order was gone.
A couple days later I contacted my dealer who confirmed that the order was cancelled and was going to look into it. Got a call later, my order was changed to a 2006 and I was going to get one of the first ones delivered to that dealer.
Haven't heard if they will honor the Jun 05 price and rebate. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Anyone who has recently graduated from college should pursue the college grad program. At the time I applied it was for associate, under grad, and graduate degrees. There were lots of ways to take advantage and the degree could be 2-3 years old. Hit the web site and click on "contact us" and look under special offers. I filled in some information and printed a certificate with a control number. The offer at the time was 1% below invoice (+$25 fee) and the only restriction was on the SRT models.
The wait has been long but I'm a patient person. I tend to keep cars for 10+ years. My experience with Chrysler has been good. Still driving our 94 TC, 150K miles and still goin
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-03-21-gm-cuts_x.htm
Wow, what a car.
Yesterday went shopping for all kinds of different cars, test drove the 300C, and now I own one.
I have always liked the 300C, and it was always at the top of my list, but back to back test drives reminded me of how great this car really is. It simply blew everything else away.
Now after getting to spend more then 10 minutes driving it, it's simply stunning.
I said to my wife, as we were cruising along, "Ya know, every man, women and child should own this car!" Of course she then said "No! Then it wouldn't be unique."
But I don't care if there are a million of them on the road, it's still a fantastic car, period.
By the way, my 2002 Jaguar S-Type V8 Sport, got kicked out of the garage tonight, and will be spending the rest of it's time outside. (Lease return next month.)
That kinda says it all doesn't it?
In closing, I would like to say...
WOOOOO WHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have a concern that these cars are a hot fad now selling for near sticker and will not be so desireable new or used in a few years when the style starts looking dated and/or if they prove to have a lot more problems than expected when they get older.
Buying a car for near MSRP that doesn't end up retaining above average value at resale is a horrific nightmare.
At least if you lease you won't have to worry about it (since you have an agreed-upon resale value set in stone) as long as you don't go over the mileage.
Rather than trying to attack the Chrysler 300 for what it's known for and that is it's power at a cheap price how about telling the reader's what you get at each price point?
While the V-6 in the Avalon is the only engine offered no matter what trim you pick what do you loose in amenities by picking a lower trim? In order to get majority of the options that most people pick do you have to spend the 37K?