Buick LaCrosse

dindak

If the car was built as well, finished as well, and just as refined as a Lexus for less $, people would look.

As for people being "raised on VW's, Toyotas, Nissans, and the like", you make it sound like everyone was. Give me freak'n a break!

rctennis3811

"just as refined as a Lexus for less $"

No doubt that the LaCrosse will be refined, but as refined as Lexus? Probably not, considering GM's efforts. Lure buyers away from the ES? I'm a little skeptical on that because the primary reason people want to buy an ES is Lexus prestige. You don't see many people saying, "Oh, I hope I can buy a Buick someday!" LOL

dindak

How do you know? Have you driven one?

As for the attitude " You don't see many people saying, "Oh, I hope I can buy a Buick someday!"

If a person would say that, Buick could not build anything to change his mind. I don't know of any kids dreaming of a Lexus either? LOL.

rctennis3811

Don't get your hopes up...it's a Buick. It'll be refined and smooth, but probably not up to Lexus standards. Lexus refinement is as close to perfect as it gets. I've driven a 3.6 CTS and it was very smooth and sporty, but not as REFINED and smooth as the 3.3 in an ES. Believe me, I've test driven a 3.6. It's a good engine though, and I'm not saying that the LaCrosse will be unrefined just not as refined as Lexus.

"I don't know of any kids dreaming of a Lexus either?"

Well, my son has lots of friends who are very eager to get their parent's hand me down Lexus RXs. I can think of some kids who'd love to own a Lexus, but some would rather own a Caddy, MB, BMW, etc. Kids, go figure. LOL

dindak

Ya but no one dreams of Lexus cars. They aren't even on the radar screen of kids.

Lexus is refined, but even if Buick is close, for a little less money it could sell well.

johnclineii

As a kid, I used to dream of driving a Lincoln Continental Mark IV!

theo2709

The first pics should be showing up in 5 mins.

rctennis3811

Where? media.gm.com??

regfootball

nice taurus dashboard.......

what is it with gm and ugly steering wheels?

interior looks ok. already looks dated though.......quite horizontal...not real driver oriented....

yeah, a 38-- equipped lacrosse will rival a lexus in refinement.....LOL!

johnclineii

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0402/04/b01-55074.htm

b4z

Thanks for the pics and link,

My first thought is why the wide jaguar like console?
This will make it harder for tall people to
splay their legs out for more leg comfort.

Also the car seems to sit really high up in the air.

Makes it look a little spindly.
Not as aggressive.

The final inteior looks different than what was shown earlier.

theo2709

The pic I posted before was enhanced to make it brighter. That's why the colors were off.

Kirstie_H

You can't post pictures here to which you don't own the copyright. You can post a link to them, but it is a violation of copyright law to post the photos in Town Hall unless they're yours or Edmunds'.

dindak

"nice taurus dashboard...."

In your dreams

"a 38-- equipped lacrosse will rival a lexus in refinement.....LOL!"

Wow, you have driven it already huh?

stormdavy

Acura- and Mazda-owners might disagree with that statement.

chavis10

I like it, the interior reminds me of the 500. Everyone who is objective should just ignore football. He's the biggest hater ever. Anything that GM puts out, he will not like. What does he even like?? I think he likes Ford or something. Wow, now there's a company that really has GM beat.

Anyway, I read the press info on media.gm and they seem to have really payed intention to detail with regards to the interior. I mean, I know it's marketing hype, but it seems as if they really put some effort in making look and feel luxurious.

dindak

Interior is what will sell this car cause the exterior is nothing too special. Lets hope the refinement is there also.

bretaa

Comments on the additional photos:

Interior: I like it a lot. It reminds me of the previous generation (90's) Cadillac Seville STS interior, which is a good thing. I actually like the "Jaguar wide" console. I can't tell plastic quality, but I'm guessing they've done their homework and it'll be competitive. The steering wheel and wood application to the door panels are a little clunky, but nothing is perfect. Certainly more than competitive for class. Will it have a Nav option?

Rear: Thankfully Buick has dropped the rear "light bar" in this car.

Lexus: For those harping that Lexus isn't a brand that people dream of, please reference the first line of the Detroit News article, "In 15 short years, Lexus has become one of the most aspirational brands on the car market." Argument over...

Age: For those denying Buick has predominantly a reputation only for the older set, also from the Detroit News article, "It may not be playing in the Lexus price range, but industry analysts are not sure Buick, with its reputation as attracting mainly older buyers, is playing in the same ballgame."

Summary: Again, the LaCrosse is a very nice car that will almost certainly do better than the Regal and will also be a good start to Buick's long image change, but not it's not going to shake up the market that much.

- Bret

joey2brix

Feed of the Lacrosse intro

bretaa

If not already mentioned, I think the Autoweek Chicago show gallery has one or two photos I haven't seen elsewhere. Is that a pull knob headlight switch on the dash? Ugh. I do like the rear "shoulder" fenders over the tires, though.

- Bret

gearjammer62

The pictures look promising - my first reaction was of more of a Cadillac influence than anything else inside of GM. Having owned a Taurus, I don't see the slightest resemblence.

Fortunately, I'll be at the Chicago Auto show next week and hopefully be able to sit in one.

The proof will be in the driving, though. Always amazed at the "expert" opinions of those who not only have never seen a car in person, but have never taken one on the road. Only then is one "qualifed" to make an objective opinion.

The driving benchmark for me will be against the Intrigue - still one of the best mid-sizer's GM ever built.

bigdaddycoats

at the virtual tour at the Buick site. Lacrosse looks pretty good there.

dan165

Car looks pretty nice, very Lexus like. Whether it drives like a Lexus I don't know though the GM haters here already have that figured out.

What ever the case, the car is a big step forward from the old LeSabre or Regal. Pricing is said to be starting in the $23,000 US range which seems very reasonable.

jchan2

"kids don't aspire to own a Lexus"
well, at the kids' school, there are a lot of kids that want a Lexus.

bravedave

... that the new Buick LaCrosse from the windshield back looks very similar to the Intrigue?

1487

"interior looks ok. already looks dated though.......quite horizontal...not real driver oriented...."

Have you ever seen the interior of an Audi or VW? They are horizontal but the press loves them. This is obviously not a bad thing. In fact, the 500 has a similar interior and football loves Ford if I'm not mistaken. Now that we all see the car looks pretty good AND has a 24V engine I would expect him to disappear and start bashing another GM product.

This car will undoubtedly be very quiet and really that is one of the primary attributes that determines how refined a car is. Honestly the Regal was very quiet, I remember when it was tested in C&D many years ago. People have already determined this car wont measure up to the ES330 but I think it will be every bit as quiet and smooth riding. If you read the press info you see how much effort they put into cutting down noise. Besides, the current GP has been praised for its noise isolation. I like the car inside and out.

BTW, most kids who are into cars don't aspire to own a Lexus. The only Lexi with youth appeal are thee GS and IS, both of which haven't been successful. Lexus is an aspirational brand for yuppies and people who get caught up in soccer mom luxury vehicle arms races. They all have nice interiors, but they are all funny looking. You wont find a Lexus hanging on Junior's wall anytime soon.

gweilo

What happened to the rear hatch/load floor idea of the concept? That's was something different and intriguing. Video feed mentions an aluminum engine cradle..hope they learned how to do it after Impala problems.

bretaa

I agree. The VW/Audi interiors, while of unquestionable high quality, will never be accused of being driver oriented at all. They're about as horizontal as they come. The LaCrosse dash, at least, looks to be fully contemporary and competitive.

And again, regarding Lexus, I know many "youth" who love this Luxury brand and are saving up for old models they are looking to "slam." I've seen many a first year ES, IS, or LS model around here with that treatment with many a high school/college student behind the wheel. You must not work with/know many teens. And, again, "Lexus is an aspirational brand for yuppies and people who get caught up in soccer mom luxury vehicle arms races..." That's maybe true, but Toyota is skipping all the way to the bank on the greenbacks of these folks. Mock them, joke about them, make fun of them. But the carmaker who *ignores* them is in serious trouble... They're the ones everyone seems to believe have the 30K+ to spend on cars.

- Bret

rctennis3811

Why is this car so high from the ground? It just looks too high for some reason...

b4z

Did you see my post #276?

chavis10

It's funny how GM must make a perfect product to get any kind of respect when cars like the Altima are introduced with interiors worse than any GM car 4 years ago.

svevar

While there might be some youths who aspire to own a Lexus, the majority want the German luxury brands. I say this as a "youth" myself. My high school parking lot used to have a few Lexus cars (Lexi?), but definitely more from the German marques. It's the same deal now that I'm in college. As 1487 said in post #292, the only Lexus models that appeal to most youths are the IS and GS. But a 3 Series, A4, or 5 Series were/are more desirable.

Now this thread isn't about Lexus, but the new Buick LaCrosse, so I'll try to get back on topic. I'm not really a Buick fan (or a GM fan, save for some Cadillac and Saab models), but I like the new LaCrosse. I think it's a step in the right direction for what has become an extremely dull (albeit reliable) brand. The exterior is nice enough (certainly better than the dreadfully boring Camry and Accord), but it's the interior that really excites me. I think it's a nice effort from GM after years of disappointing interiors. I think that several of their cars have nice exterior styling (the Rainier, Envoy, and CTS come to mind) but lackluster interiors. Hopefully, the LaCrosse will be the first car in a new era of nice GM interiors.

chavis10: About the Altima interior... sure, it might have cheap, loose-fitting plastic, but at least it looks good. The problem with GM interiors is that they have cheap plastic, and they look awful, too.

chavis10

It's funny how GM must make a perfect product to get any kind of respect when cars like the Altima are introduced with interiors worse than any GM car 4 years ago.

jchan2

It's all about perception.

regfootball

even the worst altima interior still comes off better than the best pontiac or buick interior.......(except the new GTO interior is quite nice but hey its an Aussie product)

If you'd sat in an A4, you see that it's quite driver oriented and cockpit feeling. Feels intimate and sculpted around the driver.

VW's are fairly driver oriented too.

its true.....people with 30k to spend on cars won't buy buicks, pontiacs

vcjumper

saw this elsewhere
LaCrosse

alpha01

"It's funny how GM must make a perfect product to get any kind of respect when cars like the Altima are introduced with interiors worse than any GM car 4 years ago."

Lets not exaggerate. Have you been around for the past 21 years of J-car? Sat in an Impala lately? Viewed the highly illegible gauges of the Rendezvous during the day?

That said, I'm impressed with the 2005 Altima update. The family sedan class seems to be heating up. Even so, is the LaCrosse (worst vehicle name in a long time, please call it the Allure, Lutz) intended to compete against the mainstream sedan? I thought that was the task of the newly competent Malibu and intriguing G6.

I think the Allure will see battle against the Ford 500, Mercury Montego, the redesigned 2005 Avalon, the Chrysler 300C, the Nissan Maxima, etc. In other words, not the entry level cars from luxury brands, but rather, the flagships of the mainstream makes.

(The comparisons against the Lexus ES seem a bit of a stretch to me, regardless of how highly the well written press release proclaim ride quality and quiet. I'll wait until I see a review, and subsequently drive one myself.)

Also, one note- someone said the GS was not successful? I feel Toyota has allowed too long before a redesign, the current model will have been around for GM-like 7 model years before it is replaced by the car which debuted in Detroit. However, when it was a fresh design, it sold quite well, received much critical acclaim, and indeed won 3 consecutive Car and Driver Ten Best Awards. In my opinion, thats far from unsuccessful.

~alpha

regfootball

that LaCrosse in NO WAY looks like a Taurus! LOL!

sirland

The LaCrosse will improve Buicks line up. I have to say the interior is well layout and the out side is all right but the look is really not going to bring in any large crowd of people. Some how they how taken the headlamp look of the Jaguar X-type and put it there. I have heard that GM is bring more life to each of it's companies one at a time. That made explain why they didn't change the style of the LaCrosse in a new direction but instead just hold on to it's profile from the rest of the Buick cars. Does anyone think the LaCrosse will out take the Avalon in a road test?

dindak

OK I'll give you the windows and general shape of the top of the car, but there is no way the interior is Taurus. Being a bit like Taurus in not neccesarily a bad thing, Taurus is a pretty decent looking car.

b4z

Kind of scary.

b4z

That was a loooooong video, but it had some interesting info in it.
i wonder how quiet will it be, and if it will have the refinement to go along with the quiet.
The CTS's I have driven with the 3.6L are pretty rorty sounding.

bretaa

Some thoughts:

To Reg: I have to disagree with you about the Audi. I extensively test drove A4's recently and again, while super high quality, the interiors are far from being the most driver oriented. They're kinda bland, actually, and feel too much like a high line VW to me. The 3-series, 9-3, and some others have far more "driver oriented" cockpits.

To Chavis: You must have a short memory. The Altima interior was roasted over the hottest coals multiple times over in the auto press and on boards like these. Even Nissan admitted it, well, was less than adequate.

To Sirland: I agree with your LaCrosse analysis 100%.

- Bret

badgerfan

Apart from the plastic wood, the interior is remarkably close to my 2000 Taurus SES. Door controls and dash layout appear nearly identical. I see they even copied the flip-fold seat/console option from Taurus.

Definitely Taurus was the baseline for La Crosse styling.

Not that it won't be a decent car, just certainly derivative styling wise. Meanwhile, Ford will have 500 out later this year and Futura after that. Ford 500 bears some faint resemblance to VW's styling cues. So it goes. Every major auto manufacturer copies styling cues from others to some extent.

La Crosse is very well suited to Buick's current customers. GM has likely wisely decided to leave Buick for the most part to the more mature customers. Having four other car divisions, makes it a bit difficult for GM to keep the divisions from stepping on each other, so leaving Buick conventional may be a good thing on their part.

regfootball

comments on the LaCrosse and a comment from Lutz on interiors in general.

"The four-door's design is reminiscent of the jellybean styling first seen with the Ford Taurus, though it carries a variety of traditional Buick cues, and a level of refinement not seen in Buick models for many years."

"It's "very reasonable," insists Reichman, that a company like Ford could transform a mediocre interior into something truly world-class for a modest $50 to $150 a vehicle. It can be even more expensive not to improve things, he stresses. "If the interior doesn't match a customer's expectations, it's a 'no-sale.'" That position was echoed by General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, who's become a champion for upgrading the automaker's interiors. GM has paid a high price for scrimping over the past, he conceded. "In an environment where you give away $4000 (in incentives) if you don't get it right, why not put that money into your cars?" Lutz asked, suggesting that better interiors would permit a carmaker to cut back on rebates and other givebacks."

bretaa

Here is a a wonderful editorial from the Detroit News that is a perfect summary of the points many of us have been making (and others have been railing against...)

http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0402/05/autosinsider-56473.h- tm

What do you all think?

-Bret

dindak

"leaving Buick conventional may be a good thing on their part"

Yup. Making a car to compete with the CTS makes no sense. This is a traditional luxury car and will appeal to the conservative 45+ boomer crowd, the same one Lexus competes in.

The look may be similar to Taurus in some ways but one can clearly see this is a MUCH better car.

badgerfan

All it takes is a few pictures and press releases and its very clearly a much better car! LOL

chavis10

You've got to be kidding. The Altima's interior looks good? That's funny. Have you ever noticed how cheap and light it's doors are? Same for the Maxima. Some of these cars feel like they'll fall apart from regular use in 3-5 years.

chavis10

Here's what I consider LaCrosse competition: Maxima/Altima, Ford 500/Montego, Accord, Camry, Passat, 300 Limited, maybe Galant. With any of us ever driving the LaCrosse, I think it stacks up pretty well in terms of power, features, looks, etc. Ofcourse each car has it's strengths and weaknesses. But on the whole, no car seems to easily beat the LaCrosse. I consider the LaCrosse what the next generation Intrigue would have been if Olds was still around. That car handily beat everything except the Accord and Passat. In fact, edmunds would have rated it higher than a Camry and Accord in it's first comparison but something went wrong with the starter or something.

The Ford 500 seems like it's gonna be a really nice car. They keep saying it's going to provide a tall driving position. I'm not sure if I like that idea or not. But it's certainly has some strech out room in the back, 40inches to be exact and a 20 cu ft trunk too. Very nice. However, it'll be severly underpowered. Approaching 4000 lbs with AWD, it'll only have 3L and 200hp/200lbs-ft to propel it. Not a good move. Why can't Ford at least add VVT from the Mazda 6 or Jag S/X type?

Chrysler 300. I'm a bit mixed on my feelings about this car. Without the HEMI, it's nothing special. The current 3.5L has never been faster than a 3800 in acceleration even though the 300M weighed the same as an Intrigue. Not good for a car with supposedly 253hp/255lbs-ft. The interior looks nice though. Not to impressed with the high beltline/low roof design though. It'll be a joke with the standard 2.7 DOHC V-6. I'm not really sure how/why RWD will automatically make this a good car. Plus you only get a 5 speed with the HEMI