Cadillac DTS

libertycat

I'm pretty sure if Cadillac continues their naming of the Catera and Seville replacements, this will be the name of the next Deville. I LOVE the current Deville and hope the next one has even more wood trim inside and doesn't lose an inch of space inside. Does anyone know anything about this vehicle? I'm pretty sure either this or the Seville will jump up to the ultra luxury class and one will stay as a mid-level luxury sedan. I am VERY curious about this vehicle and I hope Cadillac doesn't make too many changes from the current excellent one.

cadillac1

Reports buy Bob Lutz at GM state the next Deville will be nemed the DTS. It will be RWD, and "may" be an Mercedes S-Class fighter. Lutz says he never understood why the smaller STS was the top of the line car and not the Deville. But do not fear Liberty, in the same report, they mention they may keep the Deville name around for a vehicle that will be pretty much like todays Deville and will catere towards those who want a big, soft, luxo cruiser.

libertycat

I was right about my DTS name guess!!! OH YEAH! LOL. I agree that the Seville (STS) should be mid-level luxury sport and the Deville (DTS) should be ultra luxury. I doubt they will end up keeping the name and have an old-fashioned car. I can live with a little less room and it is possible to make a sports sedan with LOTS of leather and wood trim.

arenn

Did you see the June sales numbers on the DeVille? Down almost half from last year - only about 4,700 sold. At that rate, it is looking much more attractive for Caddy to nuke it good.

I know the volume hit would be hard to take, but to complete the brand makeover, Cadillac basically has to ditch its existing customer base for the land yatchs. It would definitely hurt volume substantially to replace the DeVille with an S-Class competitor, perhaps even dropped Caddy below the 200,000 barrier. That's ok. A luxury brand shouldn't be about volume.

I would be ok with keeping a DeVille like car except for one thing - imagine the "new Cadillac" customer going to a dealer and seeing acres of DeVilles (just like today in other words). Lots full of land yatchs would be terrible for the brand image Caddy is trying to cultivate. Let Lincoln have that market. The Town Car needs a new sales outlet other than taxicab companies anyway.

libertycat

do u know of a website?

a_l_hubcaps

I read the recent long-term test verdict on the 2002 DeVille in Motor Trend. They actually liked it more than I would have expected. There were a few complaints about the ride and the fact that it doesn't quite live up to some of its foreign competition, but overall they seemed to be quite favorably disposed towards it and they felt it was a good value for the money. So maybe the DeVille is not such a relic after all.

-Andrew L

arenn

libertycat, every month the auto makers issue press releases with their monthly sales by model. You can see them on Yahoo finance or any site. For GM specifically, you can go to media.gm.com. June sales figures are here:

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http/image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreleasedetail.do?domain=2&docid=893

regfootball

maybe CTS is stealing sales from Deville.

libertycat

I doubt it and am sure not one buyer was going to buy a Deville and got a CTS. The Deville is bigger and more luxurious. The CTS is WAY different.

libertycat

It's my favorite sedan at this moment.

libertycat

Could u please name a site that has sales numbers for every vehicle on the U.S. market. I couldn't find any individual model sales numbers on Yahoo Finance and your GM link didn't work.

eaton53

http://www.autosite.com

Go to the market report.

libertycat

mraccountant

Is the new DTS coming in 2005 as a 2006 model or in 2006 as a 2007 model?

Thank you

libertycat

mraccountant

Will I be the only one or will most of us wait to see the 2006 DTS before purchasing another Cadillac. I currently have a 2000 DTS.

libertycat

What color interior does your DTS have? I love the DTS!!!!!!!!! I would buy the current without any hesitation.

vinnyny

I don't know how much I'd trust the information on Autosite. Their information doesn't seem very reliable. For instance, the latest incentive figures listed are from 3/03 and when I tried to get a used car value, it listed a 2001 Audi TT with a 4.2L V8 (with 360hp no less!).

eaton53

Seem to be pretty reliable, but always about a month and a half behind.

barry45rpm

Will be DTS, will be FWD

mrmanguy25

For Cadillac to go with a FWD platform for the next gen Deville would be a mistake. It certainly can't compete as an S-Class/7-series fighter with FWD -- The days of FWD are fading fast.

theo2709

The next Deville will not be the S-class fighter Lutz wanted it to be. It will be redesgined on the current G-body, and it will cater to the older buyers. A true A8 type will come in 2008/09 on a new RWD platform, which may be shared with a Sixteen of some type.

regfootball

it needs to remain a volume FWD car to appease the market that currently buys the car and to have at least one Caddy that will sell in cold weather climates. The blue hair crowd buys lexus' not Mercedes S classes. And honestly, most of Caddy's clientele will buy anything with a Caddy logo on it anyways.

I would add Caddy should get off its cheap butt and develop an AWD sedan.

mrmanguy25

I don't see any advantages at all in going with FWD. Any advantage it once had in snow/ice has been eliminated, traction control and stability control evened the playing field between FWD and RWD. You think all those devoted 60+ Deville buyers will care if they make the move to RWD as long as it rides/drives the same? Half of them probably don't even know that the current one is FWD. If people feel that the Caddy sedans aren't safe in the snow, (which I'm sure they are and even if they're not convinced, get off their lazy butts and get snow tires), thats what the AWD SRX and Escalade are for. Car enthusiasts often refer to FWD as wrong-wheel drive, and for a good reason. Everything is wrong with it.

But on a side note, regfootball you're right, AWD would solve all of this

regfootball

all the geezers in the midwest buy devilles because they are FWD......

trac and stab cntrl help some but are no substitute for FWD....trust me...I was a diehard RWD fan, but I got converted. I even did the snow tires thing. It helps a ton. But FWD w/ snow tires is even better.....

and regular non car people are too lazy and too dumb to latch on to the snow tires thing. especially when they expect a 60,000 dollar vehicle should not need anything extra to make it drivable.

why do you think the Lexus ES300 is popular? SNOW! Gotta have one Lexus with FWD for the masses.

An older lady in church who is in real estate bought a new IS300 when it came out. She wanted a Lexus so bad.....and she had no clue what was up with RWD.....after 6 months she had traded it for an ES.....couldn't drive it in winter......

people like that need FWD.

And yes, I feel for the price they are asking just go AWD standard. that would solve everything.

arenn

The main problem I see with a "traditional" DTS is not the vehicle per se, but the dealers. Go to almost any Cadillac dealer today and 50% of the cars on the lot are DeVille's. If Caddy really wants to change its image, it can't have it's new school cars hidden behind three rows of existing DeVille's. It will kill the brand.

tomcat630

I do get sick of "Car people" who talk as if anyone over 60 is 'mindless, clueless and irrelevant'. My parents know a lot about cars and are far from the nasty desriptions above, and not all seniors drive 'old' style cars. Yes, there are "car enthusiasts" over 60!

FWD isn't "All wrong". For economy, basic use/point A to point B driving, it is suitable. Nobody slams Lexus for offering a FWD enrty car.

mrmanguy25

Well I suppose FWD isn't "all" wrong, but the problem is that we aren't dealing with basic, economy point A to point B driving. The car of discussion here is a full size luxury sedan where poor weight distribution (and therefore poor handling), torque steer and other issues are not acceptable.

tomcat630

Well, if the DTS is RWD, it should offer the same price point as today.

regfootball

none of Audi's cars are RWD. Many Audis are sold FWD only. Doesn't hurt them.

DTS could be FWD but offered with AWD.

Domestics ahve always been so afraid to offer AWD cars...I am sure there's always a zillion EXCUSES for not doing so.

mrmanguy25

Actually... The A4, A6 and TT are FWD only when you purchase the base model. Anyone even slightly performance oriented opts for the AWD model. This is acceptable on the smaller cars.

Notice they don't have a FWD A8. I guess they decided FWD wasn't appropriate for a car of that size/class.

elvisdts

My understanding is that the name DTS and RWD are a "done deal" when the "Deville" gets its major makeover.Here are my thougths as to what would be best for Cadillac to do. #1 Keep the name "Deville" and FWD for the "base model", you've got to crank out units to make a profit and the base car is good enough (it you start incorporating some of the DHS AND DTS technology) for the traditional Cadillac "older " buyer and with minor changes you save millions. For the rest of us have seperate model DTS with RWD and possibly an optional supercharged Northstar, around 400 hp or so . Eventually, yes, you will phase out the "Deville" as we know it now, but i think there is alot of sales left in the vheicle. The RWD DTS can move Cadillac forward but you cant drop your customer base (dance with who brung ya). The Seville STS as more of a "Merecedes fighter",,, sure why not, just keep the price down enough to make it an attractive option. Elvis

theo2709

Whoops, I've been ignoring this topic. The DTS will be redesigned on its current FWD G-body platform, with a new exterior and significantly upgraded interior. It will probably remain in its current price bracket, which means ~$45-55k. It is still unclear whether it will go for the edgy Art & Science look, or a softened look that Lutz is partial to. Given Lutz's dislike for A&S, and Cadillac's desire to retain its current older buyers for the DTS, it wil probably be softened up.

dispencer1

Frankly, I don't see what is so wrong with FWD. The car reviewers loved FWD back in the '70's. The 2005 base DTS or Deville should have a decent radio. The one in my Chevy Malibu is much better than the one in my base '03 Deville "Program Car". If I had bought it new, I would have definately gotten the Bose radio. I would think that the top of the line GM automobile would have a radio with the features of the one they put in a Chevy -RDS, tone choices, volume tied to speed, etc etc.

theo2709

I think people will complain that it's on the same platform, rather than complain it's FWD.

dispencer1

I think the platform is great. The car rides very well and is a size that fits in a normal garage. The engine is audible when accelerating but that's the only noise. You can't hear the engine in many cars because of the wind and road noise. It is the nicest looking Cadillac since the 1965-6 models a really pretty design. I wanted one from the time that the 2000's came out and finally got one. I've had it a month and no problems at all. Drives and looks like a brand new one.

theo2709

I know the G-body is good, but the press always clamors for change for the sake of change.

dispencer1

What amuses me -speaking about the press - is Motor Trend's "Car of the Year". I remember that one year (I think it was '71), the Car of the Year was the Vega. The automotive press never
really liked the Cadillac -not even the present DeVille -which is light years better than anything I've driven to date. I guess I must be getting old - I went through the English phase (Jag Mk X), Japanese phase (a couple of Celicas) and the German phase(Audi 5000S). The press loved the Audi 5000S up until the unintended acceleration bit that destroyed the resale value of this car - unfortunately I'd bought one a month before. My '86 Audi lived at the dealership with all sorts of electronic problems and I managed to dump it 1,000 miles before the 50k warranty was up. The Buick place wouldn't even take it on trade. So much for the automobile press. Can't wait to see the new DTS but will keep my 2003 in any case as a second car.

Kirstie_H

Hey dispencer1 - looks like you're new here. Welcome to Town Hall!

dispencer1

Thanks very much for the welcome. I have a 2003 base Deville (ex Alamo rental car) that I purchased from Denny Thomson at Frank Kent Cadillac, Ft. Worth, TX. in January. This is a great dealership and Denny is a Cadillac buff with sales stuff back to the '60's in his collection. I'll never deal with anyone else.
I've had a couple of classic Cadillacs back in the '60's (a 1940 Model 62 and a '47 Fleetwood Model 60) plus a 1959 Model 62, a '72 Eldorado coupe, and a 1988 Fleetwood. The 2003 beats all of them hands down. Looking forward to getting a 2000-2002 Eldorado next as a second car till I can afford an XLR.

hydra2

Who knows? I do wonder how many of the posters demanding rwd own or would even consider buying a cadillac? Like it or not, lots of snowbelt drivers will not buy rwd cars. AWD cars, sans subaru, have always had low sales numbers. I suspect that if Cadillac abandons the fwd market, the asians will happily step in and service such a large and lucrative market. Backing into a garrage at a 90 degree angle in deep snow is much easier with fwd than rwd. That's one reason many town car owners in my block have switched to devilles. A Lincloln LS driver spun out in front of me yesterday making a right turn onto Lake Shore Drive.

If I had to replace my 2002 DTS, I would not look at any rwd, not even the bmw or cts.

I would look first at the Acura TL. That is the car Cadillac needs to compete against. A dumpy fwd car won't cut the mustard in today's competetive market place. Cadillac needs to make good front wheel drive cars that perform well and are reliable and moderately priced like the TL (and good rwd cars like the cts). And if it also burns regular gas....

tomcat630

Well, since the STS will have AWD available, why get FWD if AWD is the same price?

hydra2

Shoppers that I know who have initially shopped awd offerings are ultimately turned off by the higher price, complexity and repair issues, poorer mpg, and sometimes handling issues on dry pavement. The rest of them typically wind up buying a suv. The midsize and larger suvs will rack up more sales and make much more money for cadillac than an awd STS or DTS. The extra drive axle in an awd sedan also generates unacceptable noise levels in uplevel sedans (x types being one of the worst offenders)and gobbles up trunk space. Making the DTS (and/or STS) rwd, even with an awd option might be the kiss of death for sales in one of the deville's strongest markets.

Alternatively, cadillac could shrink the base/dhs/dts/sts and offer them off the same shortened platform as fw,rwd and awd variations upon a theme.

dispencer1

I got sold on FWD when I drove my father's new 1971 Toronado. We lived in Washington DC and FWD was great in the snow. Out here in NM my wife wants a Honda Pilot with AWD. She has gotten stuck in soft shoulders with her FWD Silhouette and as a realtor she has to drive on dirt roads in the country. I always thought that FWD was an advancement over RWD. I was unaware of "torque steer" and all that terrible stuff that car enthusiasts and car magazines toss out about FWD. My 2003 Deville rides very nicely and handles and tracks well. I've driven Town Cars and they remind me of the big cars of the '70's and the old Cadillac DeVilles of the early '80's - ponderous handling and mainly they just feel heavy and outmoded.

hydra2

The press and many posters in Edmunds forums seem to be urging cadillac to chase after the European makes by switching everything over to rwd or awd based on rwd. In the past, whenever GM has tried to play catch up with the rest of the world, they have bungled things.

I hope they find a way to stick to what they know best and extend it so that they can lead instead of follow. The Cts is a great car, they seem to be bringing out versions like the v which extend on their success with it. I hope they also take everything they've learned by building the current generation of devilles (and maybe steal a little from saab and subaru)to show the world that they can still make a fine luxury fwd car with the new DTS. It will be difficult to break the 300 hp barrier and keep torque steer at bay, but that's what engineers are for.

With the rest of the world going rwd, acura, cadillac, saab, audi and a few others will have the fwd market almost to themselves. Who knows the trend might swing back to fwd with cadillac among the leaders. Cadillac or somebody should reverse engineer the TL. It could become the new benchmark for fwd performance cruisers. Just imagine if cadillac builds a fwd DTS that matches or outdoes the TL.

dispencer1

It will be a shame if Cadillac builds a DeVille that is just a larger version of the CTS. The edgy styling just doesn't look as good as the styling of the 2000-2004. It is almost as good as the beautiful 1965-1966 models. My only complaint is that it could be a couple of inches higher which would help the entry and exit. At least it isn't as bad as the Buick LeSabre and virtually all the Chrysler cars. It sure looks better than the Lexus which resembles the pre-2003 Camry -just a bland car which actually looks midsized. No design at all. Cadillac seems to have a winner with the DeVille and I hope they don't experiment with it and mess it up.

hydra2

I hope that they don't mess up the style either, although I do expect some family resemblance to the cts.

When I bought my 2002 DTS, I was amazed at how well it handled for a large car. I still think, it outhandles everything its size. Unfortunately, the 2004 acura tl as well as my wife's 2004 v6 accord, handle even better, of course they are much smaller cars. They are also much more fun to drive.

If the new DTS is fwd and has not only the expected power and luxery but also polish and is more fun to drive than the current one and at least competitive with the tl, cadillac will have a run away winner on its hands.

dispencer1

The base 2003 Deville I have isn't really "fun to drive". None of the old Cadillac full size cars were either. This is basically a road car. It will cruise all day at 75. It is quiet and peaceful and and when you get out of it you can actually walk. My Malibu is a lot more fun to drive but a long trip in it is not fun for your back. My problem with the Accords was that they had seats like rocks. No cushion at all. Hopefully they have improved them. I try not to drive the DeVille on short trips around town because the gas mileage is terrible. I hope that they also improve the base radio in the 2006. If I had bought this 2003 new I would have gotten the Bose radio which at least has the features that Chevy radios come with - RDS and auto tone, etc. My Malibu radio is much better than the one in the DeVillE. Wish I could swap radios but unlike the old radios in the pre-1994 models, you can't do it.

hydra2

None of the devilles will be confused with the handling or fun to drive quotient of a sports sedan, but the dts seems to handle better and be more fun to drive than the base deville or any other large fwd or rwd domestic sedan. The fwd imports which handle better are typically much smaller. Test drive a DTS and you will notice the difference between it and base deville model. The Bose stereo in the DTS rocks and stiffer springs translate into better handling and much less body lean than in the base deville. Night Vision, Navigation system and maybe Stabiltrak are also not available on the base model. You are correct in that the devilles shine as highway cruisers.

For the sake of fairness, the leather seats in the 2004 Accord V6 EX are quite comfortable.

dispencer1

I'm really glad the Accord seats are now comfortable. It has been a number of years since I tried them. I'll certainly check out the DTS. I guess I compared it to the 1999 Seville STS which a friend has. It rides about the same as the '97 Ranger Extended Cab I once had. Fortunately the stereo is a lot better. I think the DTS would have been a better choice than the base DeVille but since used DTS's are tough to come by a year old, we thought that this $26k base '03 Deville was a bargain. It was certified and has been fine for driving real estate clients around in. Everybody is very relaxed and comfortable. I've heard many good things about the DTS and hopefully my next Deville will be one. The stereo alone will make it worthwhile. By the way, my stereo has started to skip on CD's at least once every song or two - I'll take it in next week to the dealer for a replacement with a rebuilt one. Anyone else had this problem? I have a cleaning kit for computer CD-ROMs. Shall I try and use it?

setzer

I like the current DeVille. The current Seville is ugly in my opinion, and needs it's new design. On the other hand, I like the DeVille how it is and I hope it doesn't get the same treatment the Seville and Catera got. If the DeVille gets the new styling, what would be the point of that? The DTS and STS would look pratically the same! Give them some individuality. Also, Edmunds is telling us that the STS is final piece of Caddy's new design, so that means no CTS/STS design for the Deville/DTS!