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2005 Passat
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VW Delays Launch of Microbus
To Reduce Its Production Cost
By CHRIS REITER and NEAL E. BOUDETTE
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
May 20, 2004; Page D3
Volkswagen AG said it is delaying the launch of its retro-designed Microbus van by one year to 2007 in a bid to make the vehicle less expensive to produce.
The move represents another step back from a strategy to build more higher-priced and luxury vehicles, especially for the company's core VW brand. The world's fourth-largest car maker had hoped to increase profit by selling more premium-price vehicles, but some of its new luxury cars have flopped, hurting earnings at a time when weak demand and the weak dollar are already weighing on the bottom line.
Earlier this year, members of the company's supervisory board urged Chief Executive Bernd Pischetsrieder to ease off on the luxury drive and put more emphasis on affordable vehicles.
The Microbus concept
The Microbus, which was presented as a concept car in 2001, was originally designed for the U.S. market as a yuppie version of the old hippie cruiser, with lots of pricey options such as built-in video screens, power sliding doors, a rear-view camera and Internet access.
But Volkswagen can ill afford such a costly gamble and plans to use the extra year to lower costs by finding ways to reuse more parts from its Transporter cargo van.
Volkswagen had planned the new Microbus specifically for the U.S. market, but wants to rework the car so it can sell elsewhere as well. "The sole focus on the U.S. market would have put into question the success of the model, primarily because of the persistent unfavorable exchange rates and market conditions," the company said.
The Microbus idea was born after VW made a hit out of the New Beetle, an updated and more expensive version of the iconic cult car of the 1960s. The New Beetle, however, was launched in the late 1990s amid rising car demand.
Today, car makers face soft demand in Europe and a price war in the U.S. The launch of the new Golf, VW's most important vehicle, has gotten off to a slow start because many customers think VW pushed its price up too far.
So, if you are listening VW..If the new Passat is built around a 107 inch to 110 inch wheelbase with a 71 inch to 72 inch width, a 200-250hp and 200-250lbs/tq, AND 20-25mpg city and 30-35 mpg hwy engine, 4Motion option with VSC, navigation and their usual fit and finish all for around $25K to $35K (depending on options) they could recreate the originial Passat craze. The key is the size (bigger than the 6 and the new Legacy), equal or around the Camcord, BUT with the mileage that reflects current gas prices. There is no reason to have extreme HP and TQ to sell to the masses--have a model that provides the high water mark like the 4.2 V8 if needed, but this will kill you on the CAFE MPG equation.
I think NISSAN made a big mistake by NOT CONTINUING the 3.0 VQ (227 HP version) as an option on the Altima and Maxima IN ADDITION to the 2.5 and 3.5. NISSAN IS MISSING OUT ON AN ENGINE THAT PROVIDES THE OOMPH WITH THE MPG! Let's hope the VW does not make the same mistake. NO REASON TO PUT ALL THE EGGS IN THE 250+ HP CLUB and lose the MPG advantage. Have a V6 that provides MPG!
Frankly I am not surprised at the VW "mess" as the profit margins with luxury cars are really much higher than the commodity cars. About a few weeks ago--Automotive News reported that Toyota dealers make $300 to NOTHING on the Camrys! The Camry brings the customers in and if the dealer can sell something else they make "real"money. VW probably wanted to cash in on the cache but they stumbled with quality and in the space they occupy the product is extremely price sensitive...they are learnig that lesson the hard way! They have to go back and deliver a superior value before they can ask folks to fork over a small fortune....
Once again, in the market they occupy people still think of a car as a transportation device that reliably rides on a 6 inch by 4 inch patch of rubber that provides a small escape from the surrounding...that space is $20K to $35K. Now, I like the Phaeton and wouldn't mind owning one but then again...$60K to $80K...ouch!
Oomph plus mpg, now you're talking.
-juice
I don't think they'll be another Phaeton, but there is going to be something based on the Maserati Quattroporte to fit in between the Passat and Phaeton. Should be another interesting car, but also a "what for" and "why" product.
The Jetta, Passat, Golf and a few sporty, but still affordable models is VW's core market. Forget this upscale stuff, but keep the Touareg because even Ford and GM can charge whatever for SUVs doesn't matter there.
I personally would like to see that Concept R roadster brought to the market and the Concept C as a Coupe and Convertible both with some version of the 3.2 V6 in the R32.
I like the Phaeton and initially thought the idea of a uber-VW was neat, but since I've seen a few 88K+ Phaetons on VW dealer's lots I'm like what the hell was I thinking!? Fine-as-hell car, but wrong brand totally!
The Touareg should have been an Audi and VW should have a SUV in the lower end of the market to compete with Fords, Chevys, Toyotas and Hondas.
Now Audi's upcoming A7 will have to be priced more than the Touareg because of the Audi name and it will be a tougher sell.
They're doing it bass-ackwards.
M
-juice
Unfortunately it is not that easy. VW has to continue its announcements on how important the luxury sector is for its growth. Otherwise sales of Phaetons would be non-existent(in truth, the current sales numbers are prettly close to non-existent). This would be quite tragic for VW after spending $billions developing the Phaeton and acquiring exotic car-makers. Piech's ego would not allow such humiliation (Piech is still Chairman of VW).
This whole idea that a car company can only thrive by building luxury high-margin cars is kind of bogus! Nissan whose main product lines are for the non-luxury segment had higher overall profit margins during 2003 than any other car company---including Porsche.
The key for VW is to focus on what made the Passat such a success during the 90's. It certainly was not high prices that made it a success.
That is exactly what they should and need to do, I agree totally.
" Piech's ego would not allow such humiliation (Piech is still Chairman of VW)."
No, actually he is only Chairman of the supervisory board. In short he doesn't call the shots anymore at least on the order of creating more luxury VW models (i.e. mistakes).
M
I still think the Phaeton is a bargain and it is too early to call it a mistake -- however, I have to admit that I agree about sales numbers being small.
But, our VW dealerships in RiverCity keep the Phaetons at the back of the lot, virtually invisible from the road as one drives by.
Almost no advertising, and although I have seen some ads in Fortune, or Forbes or the Wall Street or at least I think I have -- why not put them on TV on CNBC or the Fox Saturday morning line-up or whereever the demographic is that this car aims?
So, agree, agree mostly, and too early to tell, so by default disagree.
I can't speak to the ego thing, I don't personally know Piech -- but there is some superficial evidence that this may be the case!
What's so good about it? Ride over rough road? Handling? Steering feel? None! Not even excessive leg room.
The next Passat that looks like the Phaeton is.
The Passat and Phaeton are not, currently anyhow, in competition with each other (I guess they could be, but I doubt it).
If I "wanted" to blow $66,750+ on a new car (MSRP - negotiated discount or whatever) -- the Phaeton's "content" would make it of higher value to considerably higher value than any of its target competition, including the Audi A8L (which begs some questions, but that is for another time).
What Audi, BMW or Mercedes -- in its "content and size class" is available to be had for "such a pittance?"
You may like or hate the Phaeton, love or abhor its styling, engine, AWD layout or whatever -- I'm sure there are folks all over the board on this one. But, money being no object, my first choice would be an Audi A8L, then the Phaeton V8 (I am not inerested in any 12 cylinder car, period) -- then -- gee, what's next down the list, Jag, Merc, BMW. . .beats me.
But MONEY is always an object -- these things depreciate in value faster than policitians change their positions -- so to lease one of these puppies today and want maximum traction (a.k.a. bang for the buck) -- nothing comes close.
I again hesitate to use the word bargain in this price class, but, the shoe fits.
And, I am only stating this "from my point of view."
No current Passat is in the same league and although future Passats (and maybe even the new A6) may be, theoretically the Phaeton will have advanced too (if, as y'all seem to doubt, it [the Phaeton] survives in the marketplace!)
And the 120inch wheelbase A8L and Phaeton, IMHO, have ample leg room.
Have you all seen the new Passat? See Germancarfans.com if not.
I think it looks good, but that side character line and the look of the hood "sitting" on top of the body I'll have to see in person.
Detroit 2005??
M
In fact I think VW might trump Audi for styling now, I don't really like the mouth-agape look Audi has taken on. The rest of the cars look great, though.
-juice
M
Looks just like an Audi 6 though, eh?
No real pictures out yet on the B6. I have read though that the sedan will be out spring 2005 with the variant following in summer of the same year and that consumer will not have to wait an entire YEAR for a wagon version (a la Mazda 6).
Let's hope they get the quality issues under control (even though the link below says it's "too late for the redesigned Jetta and Passat"). Check out this USA Today story from a few weeks ago:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-05-11-vw_x.htm?POE=click- -refer
VW: ranked 33rd of 37th for reliability and falling like a rock (15% slide last year alone against an industry average 11% gain in reliability)
Repeat VW buyers down 25%.
Three key models (Beetle, Jetta, Golf) falling off CR's "recommended list" this year.
I think my ideas about owning a Passat are changing.
We bought a Subaru wagon in May 2002 (after seeing the 6 at NY) and by the time the Mazda6 wagon arrived we had more than 20k miles on it. LOL.
-juice
"Flagship models are likely to retain the current range-topper's W8 petrol powerplant, with four-wheel drive for maximum traction. A 3.2-litre V6 is also in the pipeline and is expected to revive the established VR6 name."
- Ray
Ex-owner of a 2002 W8 . . .
-juice
Indeed.
Interesting ownership experience.
- Ray
Happy to have purchased, happy to have traded . . .
I haven't sampled it, but I think the W8 too complex for the performance it provides.
-juice
And, if anyone who reads these BLOGS has direct first hand experience with a sport Passat W8, I would like to know about it -- I have NEVER heard, on any board, anyone talk (write) about their sport suspension equipped, 6spd manual transmission Passat W8 -- were ANY sold, EVER????
The new Passat "ought" to offer it -- don't count on finding lots of them on the lot to choose from, however.
The current Tips are "the weakest" link so to speak, avoid if possible. See also: "tip-lag" threat or menace.
Is the 2004 Passat worth it?
-juice
visual%20throne.html
-juice
That's why it has to go back to the previous transversely-mounted engine layout to regain the lost interior length.
Besides, even the new A6 can't conquer the dynamic obstacle:
(p96 Aug '04 CAR)"Meanwhile, the stiff suspension is pitching you all over the place...no amount of stylish sheet metal can hide the ponderous front overhang caused by the engine slung out ahead of he front wheels. It's like a 911 in reverse, and just as fundamentally flawed when it comes to creating a dynamically harmonious chassis. What is it that makes German engineers think they can rewrite the law of physics?"
This is so bad that the next Passat has to copy the Focus instead. & looks like it might just kick the A6's [non-permissible content removed] w/ ease.
Did you know why does the similarly handling RX-8 ride even smoother than the 3-series coupe w/ the already short front overhang? It's the ultra short & light rotary engine that mounts far behind the front axle. So the car doesn't need a stiff-riding suspension setting in order to corner fast, get it?
Car dynamic is getting competitive these days & there's no room for the wasteful designs. Audi's layout will be eliminated. Since non-FWD models are not allowed for their future models, Audi will have to somehow find a way to shift the engine farther back & still driving the front wheels.
Now it's easier to click the link.
Perhaps the Audi's is not a good implementation, but look at the driving dynamics of a BMW M3 or a WRX STi.
It does cost you some space in terms of packaging.
Even then, a FWD longitudinal layout can be top heavy, something the Golf, for instance, is known for.
There are trade offs, but I wouldn't say one is always better than the other.
-juice
-juice
As far as driving the rear wheels for the AWD models, Audi's layout does not waste as much energy as the transverse due to one fewer 90-degree change of drive shaft angle. But then that's also why transverse saves more energy when driving the front wheels. Audi's advantage is locating the transmission next to your hand so you get a direct shift linkage.
"Perhaps the Audi's is not a good implementation, but look at the driving dynamics of a BMW M3 or a WRX STi."
It's the front-overhang weight. RWD's fine 'cause the front axle can be located so far forward w/o worrying about the traction problem of the drive wheels. But even w/ 50/50 weight distribution, you don't want a car w/ a very short wheelbase relative to its overall length.
BMW obviously doesn't have this problem, even the FWD Vigor doesn't. Subaru's engines are much shorter than BMW's.
The pre-86 Tercel didn't have transverse, but the engine is stacked above the transmission & raised the center of gravity. So this design is replaced w/ transverse.
"Even then, a FWD longitudinal layout can be top heavy, something the Golf, for instance, is known for."
You meant the transverse Golf is still nose heavy. But at least it's far less severe than Audi's long-front-overhang weight. That's why only RWD traction can eliminate nose heaviness, & these days RWD aren't so dangerous anymore w/ the help of ESP.
Even FWD Audi has torque steer problem. That's whys starting late '90's, Audi invented an "anti-torque-steer" steering-axis geometry. But it ruins steering feel & serves no purpose for AWD models. Audi's thinking about removing such feature for future redesigns.
-juice
her is a picture of the 2005 passat
here is another picture of the 2005 passat, its pretty nice
sounds interesting
You can see some family resemblance to the Phaeton, though.
Looks pretty good overall.
-juice
Other examples of VW's aberrational marketing for North America are that we won't see the new Golf until early '06 - nearly two full years after the car first appeared in Europe, and the Jetta based on the Golf-5 platform will be the first to appear here, sometime in the late spring of 2005. All of the Golf-based cars will be sourced in either North or South America [Mexico and Brazil]; all Passats will continue to come from overseas, though not necessarily Germany.
I think it's the Golf-V, PQ46 platform...
The current Golf is ancient by today's standards, by the time the new one arrives it'll seem old too.
-juice