Even the first gen Rabbits lifted that inside tire on hard cornering. It looks strange, but does not hurt the handling - if anything it compensates some for the understeer. Yes the Golf is old, but the replacement is on the way.
Even Honda sometimes lags - the 3rd gen Integra was sold for 8 years. Honda also used to do complete changes every 4 years, now it is every 5.
What they really need to change is the base 2.slow engine. Isn't that still an 8 valve design?
The 1.8T is much more modern. In fact in Europe Audi puts the 1.8l engine (sans turbo) in their base model Audis. That engine should make its way into the Golf and Jetta.
Even then, I think it makes something like 125hp in normally aspirated mode, so that might not be enough nowadays.
The 2005 Passat is already released, and should be arriving [trickling in] at dealerships even as we speak. It is the same as the '04, with the usual minor upgrades and changes [colors, wheels, etc.].
On the other hand, if you are referring to the Next-Gen Passat, which I maintain will be a 2006 model in our market, it is supposed to debut at the Geneva Show in March of '05, and I still believe will not appear in the North American market before August or September of 2005. The cars have been spotted undergoing hot weather testing in Death Valley, with the usual disguises to try to throw off the spy photogs [which never works, of course].
The VW rep I spoke with at the Boston Auto Show in October of 04 advised me that the next gen Passat sedan would come to North America in the Fall of 05 and the Wagon in the Spring of 06.
And VW wonders why sales are off!! The current model has been around since 1998!!
While they may be putting all their eggs in one styling basket, I think these pictures of the next Passat (if they are an accurate depiction) look better than both the new A6 and new A4.
I do agree that the styling is very good looking. I also think that both the A6 and A4 are gorgeous.
It's difficult to evaluate modern designs on paper(screen). I used to have a G35, and when viewing it on a picture it didn't strike me as good looking. When I saw it in person I had a different take on it.
I like the styling, but when you have a bold feature like that grille, it's polarizing. You put people in two camps.
VW and Audi buyers will have to come from that same camp, though.
There should be more differentiation, so the lines appeal to different buyers, not the same ones. If the Passat looks better it'll cannibalize Audi sales.
Perhaps...though with recent designs unless you get bold you're labeled bland and boring.
Since the Passat is now on a different platform than Audis (A4 particularly), I'm not sure if they'll be cross-shopped (as much). Either way, VW/Audi will be making a profit.
The fact that it's no longer using an Audi platform is the funniest part - you'd think they'd have more differentiation. Maybe they still want customers to think they're using an Audi platform?
VW does seem to be backtracking on a number of previous decisions.
1) Trying to differentiate themselves from Audi by not using the same engines, notice how the 3.0 never was released in the Passat; and now that engine is already replaced with the 3.2. It does seem that they are again "sharing" drive trains (using Haldex though) as well as similar design themes.
2) Moving into the luxury class (Phaeton), but then not backing it with the dealer network. I’ve just now begun to notice commercials for it.
3) The W8, which had a shorter life (in VW anyway) than the 3.0 did in Audi.
4) The new VW Bus, which had a planned released date, only to get cancelled.
The only bright spot lately in VW has been the Touareg (I think those sales have suffered as well). I think there was a write-up in Forbes earlier this year that accurately described VW's misses in the market place. Misses such as no truck, no low end SUV, no cross-over's, no mini-van.
The new offerings (Glof, Jetta, Passat) do look interesting, though VW still doesn't have a full line up for the North American market.
I suspect, and I'm only make it up, that the reason for the "late" release of the Passat (and others) was due to all this internal backtracking.
VW could offer a broader line in North America if they were willing to bring some of their other product over. If you check out:
www.vw.co.uk www.seat.com www.skoda-auto.com
you'll see mini-vans, commercial vehicles, and other opportunities for VW to increase sales. Now they may not sell like the Passat, but it's something they could do.
It's funny you should mention those sites since I was wondering the other day why VW doesn't offer SEAT autos in the states.
I don't know the reasoning behind it. I assume importing a new line of autos isn't as easy as driving them on the boat then parking them on the dealer floor, but how hard could it be?
Not typically into passat's, but recently have seen two black ones that appear to be different from typical passat fare. They have large wheels, at least 17, but probably 18 (many spokes). The first time I saw one it had special badging and I believe I looked it up and found one online. I think it was a special edition passat. The second time I saw one I was again impressed by the appearance but couldn't see the badging. I went online to VW but saw no mention of any special edition as such. Any ideas. The first time I saw it I think it mentioned it was a 180+HP deal. Thanks in advance.
Prolly the now defunct W8 version. These are 8 cylinder/270 hp all wheel drive models of the passat. They come standard with 17' wheels, but if you opt for 6-sp (sport pkg.) you'll have 18" wheels as as standard.
These were built in '03 and '04, sadly they will not be available in the future - neither the powerful W8 engine
It's not easy to just bring new vehicles in. Firsly they have to meet US regulations (lights, safety, emissions, et al) and then be tested. My understanding is that testing alone runs into the millions of dollars per model. Sales would have to justify it.
I don't think that was the car. I'm really stumped here. These cars were driven by younger folks, doubt they could afford the w8. Plus, the cars I saw looked sportier, not so much of a luxury offering (at least from the exterior).
I even check the jetta and the pic of the gli didn't look familiar either. Maybe these two folks had a souped up regular old passat. I don't know. I know that the first one I saw had special badging because I went home and researched it on the internet. Just about positive it was a VW. Is there some sort of limited edition sport version of the jetta or passat that doesn't get advertised on their website?? Thanks again for the help.
I don't think most people would accept that Golf as a compact SUV alternative.
Around me I check and the Touareg is being heavily discounted. Surprisingly, discounts are greater than for the W8 4Motion Passat! I think they just priced it too high.
Hopefully this will not be a futre trend. Pricing of the new Passat will be equally or in fact more important than its performance/handling or styling.
I just don't get the Toureg. Less room than a Passat wagon, slower than a Passat wagon, less precise handling (though good for an SUV), nearly 2,000 lbs heavier, uses much more gas (even with the diesel).
What is the point of the vehicle? I guess to tow things, but it would be cheaper to buy a Passat wagon AND a used F-150 for towing.
In fact the Passat wagon has SUV equivalent cargo volume. Look at the cargo volume specs of Acura MDX, Toyota Highlander, RX330, Volvo XC90 and the Passat cargo volume does look quite impressive.
A friend bought one and I was surprised at how compact the interior was. He also has a Passat sedan and it's definitely roomier, especially rear leg room.
Besides that I really liked it, though. It was a V8 and he paid way too much for it, but oh well, it's his money.
"I just don't get the Toureg. Less room than a Passat wagon, slower than a Passat wagon, less precise handling (though good for an SUV), nearly 2,000 lbs heavier, uses much more gas (even with the diesel)."
& the stiff riding X5 3.0. Less cargo room than a 330i wagon(available in many countries), slower than a 330i wagon, less precise handling (though good for an SUV), nearly...
"In fact the Passat wagon has SUV equivalent cargo volume. Look at the cargo volume specs of Acura MDX, Toyota Highlander, RX330, Volvo XC90 and the Passat cargo volume does look quite impressive."
Duh, w/ higher ground clearance, the interior room will only suffer. The MDX has an uncomfortably low seat cushion even for the 2nd roll seating.
If you want more room than a wagon, get a minivan. & still got lower center of gravity than an SUV.
WOW! Creakid1 your knowledge about interior room sacrifices of an SUV is quite impressive. Thanks for enlightening me about this matter.
Despite interior room sacrifices of an SUV there are quite a few wagons that do not have the cargo volume of a typical SUV? The cargo volume of a Passat wagon is superior not only to many SUVs but also many wagons.
Your argument is quite convincing about minivans ,assuming you dont care about anything else but cargo room and passenger space. Unfortunately there are quite a few people who care about such things as performance, handling or fuel mileage. That is probably why there is a growth trend in wagon sales.
I wonder why they don't put a jump seat in the back of the Passat for two kids. volvo has this, Taurus has this, and it might help them sell more cars.
Of course they are in business to make more money not sell more cars, and if the Passat had a jump seat, then it might take away sales of the much much more profitable Toureg. Same applies to other manufacturers. This is partly why they are fine making sport wagons, but draw the line when it comes to making something large and practical that will take away SUV sales (no Accord, Camry, or Altima wagons)
Great styling for the new Passat. It is different, but still classy. The body looks almost too much like the Phaeton, but it is a refreshing change from the old Passat.
"Despite interior room sacrifices of an SUV there are quite a few wagons that do not have the cargo volume of a typical SUV? The cargo volume of a Passat wagon is superior not only to many SUVs but also many wagons."
True, the inefficient-packaging wagons are reserved for the A4 or the '95-97 Accord wagon, which got less cargo room than the (Protege-based)Escort wagon.
It has a 6 speed, gorgeous interior, adjustable suspension, can tow a bit, and supposedly capable off road; incase you need to drive across your lawn "
Not sure, I guess with a 2.7T vs the 3.2 they are priced similar. The Touareg would have better off-road capabilities and the 6spd. Haven't driven either so I'd only be going off second hand information. Isn't the Allroad discontinued.
VS the Passat wagon, which would be a little more in with this thread, I guess the Passat wagon (in 2.0T) would be cheaper, lighter, faster, and roomier, but not as luxurious. Though, I'd bet the Touareg sales will still trump the Passat wagon, in the US anyway.
Passat actually went down a little in interior space for the latest generation. maybe they will grow a little on the inside now - not interested in a larger (heavier) outside.
Why the hell should a VW adopt Audi's engine layout again in '98 like the earliest Passat's(Dasher & Quantum)? It's a good thing that VW's Passat is now switching to the Focus's design instead w/ Control-Blade suspension & transverse engine-layout, which gains back the necessary room.
The Focus-design is the std of the world. Especially room wise, let's see how well the new German-made Passat trumps the other similarly priced Focus-derived wagon -- the Volvo V50.
Comments
Dynamically, they still lift one wheel off the ground in hard cornering. If a wheel is in the air it's not exactly contributing much traction.
-juice
-juice
Even Honda sometimes lags - the 3rd gen Integra was sold for 8 years. Honda also used to do complete changes every 4 years, now it is every 5.
The 1.8T is much more modern. In fact in Europe Audi puts the 1.8l engine (sans turbo) in their base model Audis. That engine should make its way into the Golf and Jetta.
Even then, I think it makes something like 125hp in normally aspirated mode, so that might not be enough nowadays.
-juice
On the other hand, if you are referring to the Next-Gen Passat, which I maintain will be a 2006 model in our market, it is supposed to debut at the Geneva Show in March of '05, and I still believe will not appear in the North American market before August or September of 2005. The cars have been spotted undergoing hot weather testing in Death Valley, with the usual disguises to try to throw off the spy photogs [which never works, of course].
They're putting all their eggs in one styling basket.
-juice
MIne should be in soon then, Thanks again.
And VW wonders why sales are off!! The current model has been around since 1998!!
It's difficult to evaluate modern designs on paper(screen). I used to have a G35, and when viewing it on a picture it didn't strike me as good looking. When I saw it in person I had a different take on it.
VW and Audi buyers will have to come from that same camp, though.
There should be more differentiation, so the lines appeal to different buyers, not the same ones. If the Passat looks better it'll cannibalize Audi sales.
-juice
Since the Passat is now on a different platform than Audis (A4 particularly), I'm not sure if they'll be cross-shopped (as much). Either way, VW/Audi will be making a profit.
Still, be bold in a *different* manner than Audi.
The fact that it's no longer using an Audi platform is the funniest part - you'd think they'd have more differentiation. Maybe they still want customers to think they're using an Audi platform?
-juice
VW does seem to be backtracking on a number of previous decisions.
1) Trying to differentiate themselves from Audi by not using the same engines, notice how the 3.0 never was released in the Passat; and now that engine is already replaced with the 3.2. It does seem that they are again "sharing" drive trains (using Haldex though) as well as similar design themes.
2) Moving into the luxury class (Phaeton), but then not backing it with the dealer network. I’ve just now begun to notice commercials for it.
3) The W8, which had a shorter life (in VW anyway) than the 3.0 did in Audi.
4) The new VW Bus, which had a planned released date, only to get cancelled.
The only bright spot lately in VW has been the Touareg (I think those sales have suffered as well). I think there was a write-up in Forbes earlier this year that accurately described VW's misses in the market place. Misses such as no truck, no low end SUV, no cross-over's, no mini-van.
The new offerings (Glof, Jetta, Passat) do look interesting, though VW still doesn't have a full line up for the North American market.
I suspect, and I'm only make it up, that the reason for the "late" release of the Passat (and others) was due to all this internal backtracking.
www.vw.co.uk
www.seat.com
www.skoda-auto.com
you'll see mini-vans, commercial vehicles, and other opportunities for VW to increase sales. Now they may not sell like the Passat, but it's something they could do.
It's funny you should mention those sites since I was wondering the other day why VW doesn't offer SEAT autos in the states.
I don't know the reasoning behind it. I assume importing a new line of autos isn't as easy as driving them on the boat then parking them on the dealer floor, but how hard could it be?
These were built in '03 and '04, sadly they will not be available in the future - neither the powerful W8 engine
I even check the jetta and the pic of the gli didn't look familiar either. Maybe these two folks had a souped up regular old passat. I don't know. I know that the first one I saw had special badging because I went home and researched it on the internet. Just about positive it was a VW. Is there some sort of limited edition sport version of the jetta or passat that doesn't get advertised on their website?? Thanks again for the help.
I suspect somebody purchased a used Passat 98 or 99 and spent a couple thousand to increase the power over 200 and modify the exterior.
Around me I check and the Touareg is being heavily discounted. Surprisingly, discounts are greater than for the W8 4Motion Passat! I think they just priced it too high.
-juice
Hopefully this will not be a futre trend. Pricing of the new Passat will be equally or in fact more important than its performance/handling or styling.
What is the point of the vehicle? I guess to tow things, but it would be cheaper to buy a Passat wagon AND a used F-150 for towing.
Besides that I really liked it, though. It was a V8 and he paid way too much for it, but oh well, it's his money.
-juice
& the stiff riding X5 3.0. Less cargo room than a 330i wagon(available in many countries), slower than a 330i wagon, less precise handling (though good for an SUV), nearly...
Duh, w/ higher ground clearance, the interior room will only suffer. The MDX has an uncomfortably low seat cushion even for the 2nd roll seating.
If you want more room than a wagon, get a minivan. & still got lower center of gravity than an SUV.
Despite interior room sacrifices of an SUV there are quite a few wagons that do not have the cargo volume of a typical SUV? The cargo volume of a Passat wagon is superior not only to many SUVs but also many wagons.
Your argument is quite convincing about minivans ,assuming you dont care about anything else but cargo room and passenger space. Unfortunately there are quite a few people who care about such things as performance, handling or fuel mileage. That is probably why there is a growth trend in wagon sales.
It has a 6 speed, gorgeous interior, adjustable suspension, can tow a bit, and supposedly capable off road; incase you need to drive across your lawn
New Passat wagon, from pictures I've seen, looks very elegant.
Plus new Touareg should seat 7.
Of course they are in business to make more money not sell more cars, and if the Passat had a jump seat, then it might take away sales of the much much more profitable Toureg. Same applies to other manufacturers. This is partly why they are fine making sport wagons, but draw the line when it comes to making something large and practical that will take away SUV sales (no Accord, Camry, or Altima wagons)
-juice
True, the inefficient-packaging wagons are reserved for the A4 or the '95-97 Accord wagon, which got less cargo room than the (Protege-based)Escort wagon.
It has a 6 speed, gorgeous interior, adjustable suspension, can tow a bit, and supposedly capable off road; incase you need to drive across your lawn
How does it compare to the A6 Allroad wagon?
Isn't the Allroad discontinued.
VS the Passat wagon, which would be a little more in with this thread, I guess the Passat wagon (in 2.0T) would be cheaper, lighter, faster, and roomier, but not as luxurious. Though, I'd bet the Touareg sales will still trump the Passat wagon, in the US anyway.
Let's see if the new Passat wagon is as roomy or better than the current car.
-juice
Still, the current one was a huge improvement overall. It put VW back on the map for a lot of folks.
-juice
The Focus-design is the std of the world. Especially room wise, let's see how well the new German-made Passat trumps the other similarly priced Focus-derived wagon -- the Volvo V50.
-juice
Very pleased with my 05. Love that TDI.