Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

maybesaab

Thanks for the info...

One of the things I didnt mention was that I do want to get a Subaru and if the Ouback "float" is not correctable for me then I thought a base Legacy was the next best hope so it was good to hear you had the same perspective. Though the Legacy is a nice car and people like them I don't think they come close to the quiet and smoothness of the Outback. It feels like it would be such a compromise in those area that it is hard to be excited about it. Plus the ride in the Legacy "feels" like a small car ride to me while the Outback is more substantial and rides "large". But it is good to know realistically what I wold face if I tried to force the Outback decision. It seems to me there is nothing else on the market that compares to Subaru value, reliability, awd, and in the case of the Outback - also quiet and ride quality. Am I missing something in the market ?

kens

That's interesting you say that the Legacy doesn't feel as smooth and quiet as the Outback. Both really are almost identical vehicles with the exception of ground clearance, longer travel suspension and other visual cues. Soundproofing and interior space are all the same.

I drive a Legacy GT wagon and I once had an Outback XT loaner while I was getting service. The OBXT did not sound any quieter to my ears, in fact the stock tires are slightly noisier than those on the GTs.

Perhaps some of the "rides large" and "smooth" you percieve is from the higher ground clearance and softer suspension? The OBXT I drove did feel "bigger" partly due to the ground clearance, but also because the suspension is not as responsive.

I think you might be caught in a Catch-22 here. The same qualities you like about the Outback are also what is the cause of the floatiness you dislike.

Perhaps another perspective would help. The Outback is often positioned as an alternative to an SUV. It lets you do all the light-offroading most people don't do anyway with their SUV, but it handles much better. I think part of the complication is that you're comparing an OB to a road-only car.

While you could get an OB and make it's suspension firmer, you would in some ways be defeating the original intent of the vehicle.

Ken

maybesaab

Hi Ken,

I think you hit the nail on the head with the "catch 22" - it sure feels that way. I think what I will do is test ride the Legacy and the Outback one after the other and pay particular attention to the ride and noise levels. I think that they are even close to comporable then I have my solution. The fact that you own and drive a Legacy regularly and then had an Outback for a bit sounds like the best comparison scenerio I can think of - definitely better than a couple of 10 minute test drives. Thanks for the info and the perspective - they were both very helpful. Thanks Dave.

pf2001

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has brought the extended warranty lately? If you had, did you buy it from the dealer or a non-dealer? Can you shop around for a better price?

Thanks. :confuse:

kens

Dave,

Do you have a good dealer nearby? I thought Subaru had an extended test drive campaign going on where you could test drive a model for 24 hours or something. Or better yet, some Subaru dealers also run a side rental car business and you can rent an Outback and or Legaacy for not too many dollars a day. It probably would be money well spent.

But yes, getting to drive each over a period of days on one's regular commute is probably the best way to see the similarities and differences.

Ken

kens

I haven't purchased one, but I do think genuine Subaru extended warranties are sold only by Subaru dealers. I think you can buy your extended warranty from any Subaru dealer, however so it would pay to shop around.

I've not heard many positives about 3rd party extended warranty providers. With the Subaru warranty, the dealer providing service is already set up to charge parts and labor so you don't need to file any extra paperwork.

Ken

pf2001

Hi Ken,
I was reading the previous posts that some people got pretty good prices for the extended warranty. I will shop around.

Thanks.

powder8

Hello, I'm a new outback owner, I just bought an 05 outback 3.0R. I am extremely excited about this car, and am looking forward to driving it for many years.

I was wondering if anyone has had any experiences with towing a tent trailer with the H6 outback. I know the specs say to have trailer brakes for anything over 1000lb's. But a few dealers that I talked two said that trailer brakes are not necessary and that the car can easily handle a tent trailer weighing 2000lb's.

Does anyone have any opinions???

Thanks

xwesx

I think it mostly has to do with liability. The vehicle's brakes can certainly handle a trailer of this size and weight, but the problem is that you run a greater risk of jack-knifing, etc., as the trailer weight goes up. So, then comes in the driver competency factor... something for which a manufacturer must figure at the lowest common denominator. Therefore, the decision (and liability) lies solely with the owner/driver.

ateixeira

I have one. Aim to get about 40% off the list price, that's a good deal. Prices vary a lot, because the length and terms vary. I've seen prices from $770 to $2300, to give you an idea. $1300 or less I consider a good value, again depends on the terms.

Remember it includes roadside assistance. We got a 7 year warranty, and AAA would have cost us $497 for that period. That paid a rather large chunk of it because we cancelled AAA.

That plus piece of mind and potentially better resale for 2 reasons: they use all OE replacement parts, and we might sell it at 97k miles, with 3k miles left on the warranty.

-juice

kens

Also, keep in mind that Subaru Gold can be purchased at any time during your factory warranty. Unless you're getting some screaming deal with incredible financing, there's no need to buy one with the car from the same dealer. Some dealers are not upfront about this.

Ken

pf2001

I checked the dealer's website and the warranty prices are all the same. Can you haggle with the price? We are planning on keeping our 04 OB for awhile so I am searching for the extended warranty. Do you call each individual dealer and ask for a quote?

Thanks for the information. I'm still wet behind the ears with these things.

raybear

Juice already said it, of course you can negotiate the price, that's why he recommended going for 40% off...remember that number only works with the higher end warranty and not one of the short-term ones.

pf2001

I miss understood "aim" in his response. Sorry.

Thanks for all the helpful information.

cknox

I've decided I'm going to buy a new Legacy Limited wagon, but I'm in no hurry. I've got a couple questions about next year's model:
1. When does the model year change over usually occur (July, August?)?
2. When might we find out about minor changes that the new model might have?

I'm specifically looking for any new colors or additions to the radio features - or maybe NAV?. I would love to have steering wheel volume controls and red color (not buying a GT), but I can live without it.

I'd love to hear what rumors anyone knows about. If nothing is going to change, I'll take the rebates and buy an '06.

dino001

Is that the case in Florida, too? I heard that since it is treated as an insurance product, the state law prohibits dealers discounting it for selected customers (if they want to discount, they would have to do it for everyone and who would do that?). I don't know if it is true, though. At the time I purchased mine (3 years ago), I didn't know enough and I was told exactly that so I paid retail

Do you guys know anybody who sells Subaru warranties at those deep discounts?

luck11

For all of you who purchased one of the early prdn runs of the 05 OBs or Legacies, you sould be aware that there is a service bulletin No. PT121505 for replacement of cabin air filters. It states:

"There has been a change in production of the 05MY Legacy / Outback glove box. The design has been revised to allow installation of the air filtration system on 2005MY Legacy and Outback vehicles. This change took place starting with VIN 54223312 for Sedan and 56368215 for Wagon. A retrofit kit has also been created to accommodate all 05MY Legacy and Outback vehicles built prior to the VINs shown above. This kit must be installed to allow for installation of the filter and subsequent replacement filters."

My OB XTL falls in this category.

In Canada this translates into almost $150 premium. In the US, it means almost $60.....this is just for the part, not labor.

So, I think to myself that had I sat back and waited for demand to wane, and for Subaru to get all the kinks out of the first few runs of their vehicles, then I would have probably been able to purchase a year end vehicle for a much better price, and would not have been hit with premiums due to mid-production design changes.

I also ask why the person who bought an Outback 5 months after me and who paid the same price (or probably less), does not have to expend an extra $150 + tax to have his cabin filters replaced.

The retro-fit kit should be supplied to customers free of charge. We shouldn't have to pay for a Subaru design flaw.

Let's face it...the C$150 or US$60 premium won't make or break most of us, but the fact that Subaru would essentially screw its loyal customers, ticks me right off. :mad:

I have written Subaru Canada, but I have the distinct feeling the response will be less than satisfactory. I wonder what other bulletins exist for my early prodn run vehicle?

Cheers.

robr2

Is that the case in Florida, too?

Ah yes - Florida does treat extended warranties as an insurance product and they must be sold by a licensed insurance broker. Pricing is filed with the state - no discounting allowed off that price. AFAIK, as a Florida resident, you cannot buy the warranty out of state unless the person you buy it from is licensed to sell insurance in Florida.

dino001

It's even worse than you think. 05 Legacies are worse in side impact crash tests than 06 - they redesigned them due to results on 05. That's why never, ever buy first year, especially early in first year. First in the neigborhood sounds great until it becomes first sucker of the neighborhood

cptplt

you can buy a Subaru gold warranty directly from SOA, or you used to be able to several years ago, they used to send you something in the mail after you purchased the car and did not purchase the warranty at the same time.

how would FL stop them from doing that in the mail?

in fact the one I got for my WRX was from a New England dealer who sent me the paperwork to sign and I live in IL. for my Tribeca last year I showed the local dealer who I was purchasing the car from that NE guys price and he matched it.

glberger

I'd like to install my own hitch - it is suppose to be straightforward. I know you have to lower the two exhaust pipes - I looked under the vehicle yesterday and saw the rubber hangers. How difficult is it to work this free and to reassemble?

Thanks,

Gregg

robr2

how would FL stop them from doing that in the mail?

Florida can't stop them from doing it in the mail but technically it's not a binding contract since it wasn't sold according to state law.

I know that Honda kicks back any extended warranty sold to a Florida resident by a non Florida dealership.

priggly

Let's face it...the C$150 or US$60 premium won't make or break most of us, but the fact that Subaru would essentially screw its loyal customers, ticks me right off.

I have written Subaru Canada, but I have the distinct feeling the response will be less than satisfactory. I wonder what other bulletins exist for my early prodn run vehicle?

Never, ever EVER buy a first year anything.

BTW, did you ever stop to wonder why the cost in Canada is 2.5 times the U.S. cost? This morning the CDN$ is over 89 U.S. cents. Therefore, the cost should be CDN$67.42, not CDN$150.

Maybe, just maybe, there is a bigger rip-off going on than just the fact you have to do the retrofit . . . .

maybesaab

Hi Ken,

Sounds like the best thing I could do...I drove an 06 Legacy sedan yesterday and just doesnt compare to the Outback to me in terms of quiet and smooth ride. Thanks for the info - I will check it out.

ateixeira

Yeah, call around. Rumor has it Subaru might add a web site where you can request discounted quotes, but nothing official yet.

07 sedans get folding seats, but you said wagon. XM will be available. Memory seats on some models, too.

-juice

luck11

Yeah, I hear you about first year. But it was either get rid of my old OB while it still had a powertrain warranty and low KMs, or lose a ton a ton of money in trade value and get the 2nd yr prdn of the new OB. I chose the first. It was a matter of timing rather than being "first on the block". Trust me...if I can avoid it, I will never buy a 1st year prdn vehicle again.

I'm completely aware of the price gouging in Canada and thus why I purchase any parts/acc from an US East Coast dealer when my family goes down for our annual vacation. Parts mngr there is excellent and he alerted me to the Bulletin...not my local parts manager. He orders the parts for me far in advance to ensure he has them when I arrive. He matched the subaruparts.com price for a front bumper protector for my OB XTL.

Cheers.

kens

Has the 1st year Leg/OB really been that bad? In perspective, are the cabin air filter retrofit and the tweaks to improve side impact crash test scores really that significant?

I buy a lot of first year stuff, and I have to say that the Leg/OB really have had very few issues for a brand new model. That's evidenced by the relatively few changes in the 06 model year.

Ken

pf2001

Thanks juice.

mountnman4u

Thanks for the heads up on this. I was just about to order an air filtration kit for my '05 Legacy GT Ltd wagon. Although I bought my car late in the model year run, it turns out it was an early production model (i.e. it sat around on the dealer lot for a long time).

Do you have the part number for this retro-fit kit? I'd like to know what exactly I'll need to order.

Incidentally, after 13 months and 34k miles, my LGT has been trouble-free with the exception of a burned out headlight and a rattle in the dash that I've learned to live with. I think the retro-fit kit is annoying but I can live with it. I would have preferred the '06 because of better crash test results. However, I really didn't have a choice--I wanted a manual transmission (and got one). Manual tranny is not available on '06 Legacy GT Ltd wagon or the '06 Legacy 2.5i Ltd wagon. So, waiting for the 2nd year production model is sometimes not always a good thing.

Please, Fuji Heavy Industries, bring back the manual transmission (and make it a 6-speed) on 2008+ Legacy GT and 2.5i Limited wagons! If not, my next car will not likely be another Subaru!

tsy

Where's your rattle? Theres one that has to do with the mounting bolts on each side of the dash- had both of mine replaced. The center console side trim creaks a lot- removed mine, lined the trim with plastic tape, and the creaks disappeared. Glove box creaks too- they put some rubber trim that seems to help.

Still have a few more periodic creaks and rattles- but we have some very rough roads here. Even Camry's squeak and rattle here.

tom

mountnman4u

My rattle sounds like it's coming from inside the instrumentation panel. It doesn't rattle all the time. It's more like a knocking sound, heard most often when travelling on a highway and going across expansion joints. I figured that if they opened up my dash to try to locate this noise, I might end up with even more rattles!

I only have another 1400 miles to go before my warranty is up, which means about 2 weeks of driving for me. Do you think I should try to get it fixed? I'm betting that the Subaru tech won't even be able to replicate the rattle/knocking sound and they'll think I'm crazy (which I am).

Does anyone else have a different rattle problem with the wagon's sunroof cover? I find that the cover squeaks a lot, in both the fully closed and the fully opened position. Anyone have any good fix suggestions for this problem? Once again, I'm thinking that the Subaru dealership is not going to help me with this rattle either.

kens

I think you should at least get your concern recorded by the service advisor so that in case it does become an issue later on, they will be able to trace it back to someting that came up during warranty.

My moonroof shade does smake a slight rattle when it's in the 3/4 open position (when you hit the open switch twice). The moonroof shade simply rests on the aluminum rails that run along each side of the opening so at certain positions it just has more play. I've read about some owners that placed weather stripping on the top surface of the trim that encircles the moonroof opening. By doing so, the shade has less play eliminates the rattle. For me, I just open it up all the way with one more click of the switch which eliminates the noise.

Ken

tsy

Yup, that knocking sound is the bolts on the side of the dashboard. The tech told me there's a service advisory and they replaced the bolts on both sides of my dash.

If your warranty is about to end I'd get it taken care of earlier rather than later.

If your dealer doesn't deal with it, email Subaru. I did that, Subaru responded promptly and the Service Manager called me the next day to bring the car back and they took care of some of the rattles as well as the sensitive Key fob issue.

tom

saedave

My 3.0 R VDC wagon stops adequately, but I would not like to drive it with a 2000 pound un-braked trailer added on! Note the much improved brakes on the GT that the factory thought necessary. My Outback's tires seem to slip on smooth pavement somewhat also under very hard braking.

Forget the dealer's "advice"; making the sale is their only motivation.

garandman

My 3.0 R VDC wagon stops adequately, but I would not like to drive it with a 2000 pound un-braked trailer added on! Note the much improved brakes on the GT that the factory thought necessary. My Outback's tires seem to slip on smooth pavement somewhat also under very hard braking.
The GT has 15% more power (based on dyno results) and a suspension designed for high cornering speeds.

The Bridgestone Impotenza RE92A's that come on OB's are ranked 2nd last of over 20 tires in that class in user surveys at tirerack.com.

If the dealer told you trailering a 2,000 lb trailer without brakes with a 3,400 lb car is safe, he's an idiot.

doug1

Tom,

What did they do for you re: the sensitive key fob issue. I figured '05 owners were just out of luck on that one, unless we wanted to buy the improved fobs from the '06 model.

Thanks,
Doug

tsy

Hey Doug

There is a fix out by Subaru for the key fobs. But my dealer was willing to replace my fobs with the new ones. Subaru has been very responsive to fixing what needed to be fixed, and for a first year car (I got a pretty early build too- I'm coming up on 2 years!) I have had very few problems.

Ask your dealer service center about the over sensitive key fob issue, there should be a service bulletin.

tom

xwesx

If the dealer told you trailering a 2,000 lb trailer without brakes with a 3,400 lb car is safe, he's an idiot.

Hah. Absolutely, but not because doing so is not "safe." He is an idiot because he told this to a customer that he, presumably, does not know and in a matter-of-fact way!

Were the trailer to have brakes, it would be safer. If you want to reasonably pretend like you are not towing a heavy load, get a trailer with brakes. :sick:

doug1

Thanks a lot for the info., Tom. I found a service bulletin for the key fobs, and will definitely bring this up with my dealer next time I'm in. I'd love to not have to be so careful with the fob while I'm within range of the car.

Doug

garandman

If the dealer told you trailering a 2,000 lb trailer without brakes with a 3,400 lb car is safe, he's an idiot.

Hah. Absolutely, but not because doing so is not "safe." He is an idiot because he told this to a customer that he, presumably, does not know and in a matter-of-fact way!

The owner's manual says the maximum weight limit for a trailer without brakes is 1,000 lbs. And that the warranty does not extend to trailer towing. And not to tow for the first 1,000 miles.

The 3.0 is rated for 3,000 lbs if the trailer has brakes - but a max of 200 lbs tongue weight. the others are rated for a max of 2,700.

goneskiian

I too have had some issues with accidentally unlocking the car with the sensitive fob. I'll have to look into this service bulletin.

I've also got some dash rattles coming from the trim around the center console and the sunroof shade. Yup, it's a wagon and no the roads around here are not very smooth. Actually, a good example of this is to drive south on I-5 until you get to the next county. At the county line the highway goes from filling rattling to dead smooth. Nice. :confuse:

I, too, am getting close to the end of my 3/36 so I'll be making sure the service guys note this stuff at my next visit.

Thanks Tom, Doug (and others)!
-Ian

bad2krt

Do a search for subaru legacy forums. On the most likely result are some good tips and pics. Do you have wagon or sedan.

mph42

Has anyone else the following problem? When the car is started first thing in the morning, or after sitting for more than an hour after having been driven, raw gasoline fumes can be smelled outside the car, in the rear wheel wells, and these fumes are also present inside the cabin for the first minute or so of driving, if the windows are open. The fumes do not reappear after this first minute or so during the remainder of a drive and only are present again after the car has sat for more than an hour and is started again. The dealer supposedly removed the rear seat and examined all the hoses connected to the gas tank and found nothing wrong. Does anyone have any insight into this problem?

ateixeira

I was just underneath my Miata yesterday changing my fuel filter, that's about where it's located.

Any how, the Legacy's filter is under the hood, but the fuel tank is there.

I doubt that's it, though. If it leaked, it would always leak, and the dealer would probably have tracked it.

I suspect it might be a leaky vacuum canister, part of the emissions system. It basically intakes the fumes from the gas tank when you fill up, then slowly burns them off so as to not pollute the atmosphere.

What surprises me is that you did not get a check-engine light.

The canister on my Forester is on the passenger side rear, just behind the tire. It's a black box. See if you can find yours, then check the tubes that connect to it, make sure none are loose.

I'll try to find a pic...got one, it's the black boxy thing in front of the tow hooks.

-juice

mph42

thanks so much for your reply. I am taking the car to the dealer tomorrow and will have them check for this.

ateixeira

I saw that when installing my trailer hitch. Actually had to remove and replace it. I disconnected two tubes, they could be torn or just not sealed properly. They slide on and off.

Good luck.

-juice

xwesx

Juice, what happened to the other bolt in your tow hook?! I use mine a lot to yank other hapless motorists out of various problems, so a missing bolt would be bad news.... and it would just figure that the one hook I was going to use would be the one with the missing bolt!

ateixeira

I removed the hook entirely. I guess that photo was taken while I was in the middle of the job.

The hook comes out, and the trailer hitch is bolted to those same holes. The hitch took 7 large bolts, sturdy enough for the 2000 lbs rating it carries, 200 lbs tongue weight.

It handles more than that easily, I'm about 215 lbs and I can jump up and down on the thing, and it feels like it could handle 3 times as much.

-juice

xwesx

Oh, so the loops and the hitch are incompatible features? I would find that mildly annoying. Granted, you could use the hitch as a recovery point, but it is not nearly as flexible as the dual loops. I am sure that is not an issue for you personally, but still, it could present a problem.

goneskiian

Howdy all,
I've got my '05 GT wagon in for it's 30K service and the dealer is recommending the transmission and differential fluids be changed and quoted me $150. Is it time to have those changed? I know Subaru recommends they be inspected at this time (according to the maintenance schedule) but when should they be changed?

Thanks all!
-Ian

No, I didn't search so I apologize if this has been discussed recently.