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Comments
It is crazy to ask you place a factory order and give a deposit without even providing a quote...
About the difference between the dealers that have the car in stock, and those that have to place the factory order, maybe there are more differences than just that. Perhaps some of them have some incentives from the factory, or need to sell a number of cars this month, or something else.
Apart of dealer #3, that seems quite tricky, I think you should decide if you want the car now, or want to wait 60 days or more for it.
I was waiting 3 months for my factory order to arrive, and at the end the dealer offered me another car from their lot with more extras for the same price, because they didn't know how much longer it would take... so if you place a factory order you should be prepared to wait more than 60 days.
About interest rates and incentives, nobody knows what will happen in 2 or 3 months, but this car is selling really fast, so Subaru will not offer any incentive in a few months, until they see they need an incentive to sell them. When I ordered my car they were selling well, and the dealer offered me to have any incentive at the time of delivery, but 3 months later nothing changed.
I think your best bet is to think the rate and incentives will stay more or less the same, so the difference is between taking a car now from the lot, or waiting 60 days to get one ordered for you, not a big difference if you don't mind to wait 2 or 3 months, so the final price that they offered is what makes the difference.
No it costs the dealer the least amount to be able to sell a car before it even leaves the factory.
-Frank
Always go with the upfront/honest dealer.
I am also interested in a limited, I am in Seattle area.
Will love to hear the exact configuration of your vehicle and where at u are. $800 below invoice sounds a very good deal, I read thru previous posts and on average folks were getting $300-400 below invoice. Pl post details when you have clinched the deal.
Good luck.
Is the sales tax based on the dealer's location, or where I live? I read that it is based on where you live. I knew that there were issues if you were buying out of state. But if you are buying in the same state, just in another county, why is the tax based on where you live? Anything else you buy at a store in another county, you pay the sales tax for that county.
- "Did you want a turbo? I have a feeling the other dealer quoted you on a non-turbo" (don't tell me you're the internet manager and you don't even know that the "T" in "XT" stands for turbo...)
- "Don't accept that offer yet. I think I can do better, but I have to check the numbers after I am back in the office tomorrow" (I haven't heard back from this one yet...)
- "I can beat that. Let me know when you decide which dealership you want to work with"
- "They will hardly make anything at that price. I find it hard to believe they would do that, especially on a factory order"
Here is one of my favorites, the initial automated response I got from them said that they were a "no hassle dealership" and that they "cut right down to the bottom line price" and that there was "no back and forth from the manager". That sounded promising, I thought. After I emailed them with my lowest quote, I got this response:
- "That dealer is probably planning on marking up the interest rate to make more profit." (they didn't provide me a quote but promised to beat the low offer... so much for "cutting right down to the bottom line" and "no back and forth").
Oh, and of course there was the dealer who guaranteed they could beat any other dealer's quote, but when I told them the low quote I had, they said they wouldn't be able to trade for the vehicle. Funny, I told them exactly the vehicle I wanted when I first contacted them, it didn't seem to be a problem then that they didn't have the vehicle I wanted in stock when they guaranteed they could beat any other price.
If you haven't paid it when you pay for the car, they will tack it on to the total cost to register it.
X = Crossover
XS = Crossover Sport
XT = Crossover Turbo
That's how I think of the labels.
Dealer #1 checks my credit (he said they pulled 2 of my scores) and he said my highest score was 645. I was surprised because I had checked my scores from Myfico.com a few months ago, and my three scores were 709/689/670. I asked him if he was going to pull my third score to see what it was and he said no because the two they checked are usually the highest.
Is there any reason to believe that the dealer is not telling me the truth about my credit scores? I just find it hard to believe that they were that much different than Myfico.com.
So I did a quick search on Google, and I guess these really do exist, and some dealers use them instead. However it says these are based solely on your past auto loans. I have only had one car, which I have had for the past 15 years, and I never missed a payment on it, in fact I paid it off a couple years early.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/23408
I guess the reason my Auto Industry score could be so much lower than my regular FICO score is because I have a very short history, since I only had one loan which I paid off early. According to dealer #1, Subaru only looks at the Auto Industry score, not your regular FICO score. Why does everything have to be so complicated? Anyways, I think I might see what rates I can get on my own if that is really the case.
I would definitely have backup financing in place. You wouldn't want to leave yourself at the mercy of the dealer's finance office.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
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In any case, you should always line up financing ahead of time with your bank or credit union. You can always offer the dealer the opportunity to beat it. Usually manufacturer sponsored financing deals are the best (if you can qualify). Otherwise, a credit union will normally have the best rates.
-Frank
I agree with some of the other posters that if the score is noticeably lower, something is wrong...perhaps they typed in the SS# wrong??? Couple of things you could do...
1. Search for financing elsewhere, there are always other options...
2. Bring in copies of your scores to the dealer and talk to him about it. Ask the dealer to see copies of what he has to verify that it is really you. He should show you this information readily, as it is about you. If he doesn't, perhaps something else may be going on.
3. Chase bank is the one who finances the Subaru loans if you are going for the 4.9%, perhaps you could talk to your local Chase bank (or their 800#) to see what they do use to check the scores for the Subaru accounts. Chase does give a lower rate through Subaru than through their bank.
4. Every time someone pings your SS# your credit score can be lowered, so even if you don't get a loan or credit card, but just asked about one, and they ran a credit check, it can lower the score. Get the detailed version from each of the big 3 to see if someone has been pinging your SS#. It will show up on your complete detailed credit score report that you can get free once per year from each of the big three credit agencies. (Heads up: I had one time when a couple of credit card companies that I already had cards with were pinging my account every single month...who knows why)
5. The dealer/salesperson gets a kickback if they sell you on the Subaru financing, so it is more money in their pocket if you finance through them. So...
6. Make sure the dealer is using the Subaru financing (probably better now due to the incentive) and not their own dealership financing. These are two different options that you would have typically.
Good Luck!
The FICO scores/reports which you can purchase from Myfico.com or from the credit bureaus themselves are what's called your "classic" FICO scores. However, there are also "specialized" versions of your FICO scores used in different industries, one of which is known as the "Auto enhanced" FICO scores used in the automobile industry. These are not available to the consumer at all.
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http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125574
"Each industry that uses a credit-scoring algorithm to judge creditworthiness likely has a specialized version of the Classic Fico model that pays specific weight to the factors associated with that industry?s extension of credit to individuals.
So now, we come to Auto Enhanced Versions of FICO.
Equifax?s partnered with Fair Isaac to formulate a Fico score for the automobile industry called BEACON 5.0 AUTO INDUSTRY OPTION. Experian?s partnered product with Fair Isaac is called EXPERIAN/FICO AUTO MODEL 2. TransUnion?s partnered product with Fair Isaac is called FICO RISK SCORE, CLASSIC AUTO 04. Each of these aforementioned products is a real FICO score model. According to Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion, particular weight is paid to past automotive credit history in the computation of these scores. It is possible that from the above posted chart that the percentage points are slightly skewed in favor of installment history in the computation of these scores.
...
An Auto Enhanced Fico is not available to the consumer. None of the credit reporting agencies, nor Fair Isaac sells this scoring model to the consumer."
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I was able to obtain a copy of my "Auto enhanced" credit scores/reports from a dealer. In my case it turned out that my "Auto enhanced" FICO scores were indeed considerably lower than my "classic" FICO scores. My classic FICO scores are 716/689/680. My Auto-enhanced FICO scores were 672/645/603.
Cited on my Auto-enhanced report was "Lack of recent installment loan information." This is because I have not had any auto-loan payments for the last 13 years. I paid off my first car after a few years and have kept it for the past 15 years. While you would think that this would be considered a positive, it was actually a negative on my score since I had a very short automotive-loan history. And since that is given greater weight in the auto-enhanced scores, that's what brought down my scores, I believe.
At this point I had not yet found out my Auto-enhanced scores, so I was wondering why the scores dealer #1 was telling me were much lower than what I had gotten from Myfico.com. I decided to contact dealer #2 and have them run my credit (dealer #2, you'll recall, was $400 higher than dealer #1, but dealer #2 had the car I wanted in stock). I calculated that if dealer #2 could get me the 4.9% rate, it would more than make up for the $400 difference in price. I tell dealer #2 of the experience I had when dealer #1 checked my FICO scores - that dealer #1 said my highest score was 645, which I thought was too low. Dealer #2 says that some dealers have bad reputations and have been known to try to make money on the spread, by telling buyers that they qualify for a worse rate than they actually do. Dealer #2 asks me who dealer #1 was. I tell dealer #2 the name of dealer #1. Dealer #2 says that dealer #1 is kind of in the middle - not a bad reputation but not a great one either. Now here's an interesting twist - I had previously asked dealer #1 about dealer #2 (since dealer #2 was one of three dealerships who had the car I wanted who dealer #1 could possible be getting the car from). Dealer #1 had told me that he had a pretty good relationship with dealer #2.
Getting back to dealer #2, dealer #2 says that they'll check my credit to see if what dealer #1 told me was accurate. About 10 minutes pass and dealer #2 calls me back. Dealer #2 says that they ran my credit, and tells me that dealer #1 was not lying to me, my highest score was indeed 645. I thanked dealer #2 for checking, and that was that.
I still was not satisfied. Why were my scores so low? Was dealer #2 telling me the truth, or were they backing up dealer #1? Was it really due to these mysterious "auto enhanced" FICO scores? Did all dealers use these "auto enhanced" scores, or did some use the "classic" scores?
I decided to visit the dealerships of several different manufacturers and have then run my credit to see if I could find out the answers to these questions. I know that inquiries into your credit can lower your score. I also remembered reading that several inquiries in a short time span were treated as one, so it wouldn't really have that big an effect on my credit. Plus at this point I really wanted to know so I didn't really care if it cost me a few points on my credit.
First stop was a Jeep/Chrysler dealer. I feigned interest in a car and then asked them to run my credit. They do and come back and show me my scores - 712/680/675. All within a few points of the scores I obtained from Myfico.com! At this point I am feeling pretty skeptical about the trustworthiness of both the Subaru dealers I had contacted (dealer #1 and dealer #2).
Next stop was a Nissan dealership. I again say I'm interested in a car and ask them to run my credit. They return and show me the scores/reports - 672/645/603. The names on the reports were the names of the specialized auto-enhanced FICO scores described in my previous post - Equifax BEACON 5.0 Auto Industry Option, Experian Auto Loan Model 2, TransUnion Classic Auto 4. In addition, the 645 and 603 agreed with what Subaru dealer #1 had told me. However, the third score, which dealer #1 said he did not run, turned out to be higher than the other two, and would have placed me in Subaru's tier III - 6.25% for 64-72 months.
Last stop, a Honda dealership. Same routine. They run my credit, and return with one score. They say they only use Experian. My score is 603, which matches the Auto-enhanced Experian score from both the Nissan dealership and Dealer #1.
Bottom line, of the 4 manufacturers I checked with, three used the "Auto enhanced" FICO scores - Subaru, Nissan, and Honda. One used the "classic" FICO scores - Jeep/Chrysler.
Still, there was unfinished business with the Subaru dealers. Why did dealer #1 check only two of my scores? Why did dealer #2 confirm that my highest score was 645? One interesting thing I discover from my credit report is that Dealer #2 never checked my credit! It showed that dealer #1 checked my credit. It also showed that the Jeep/Chrysler dealer, the Nissan dealer, and the Honda dealers checked my credit. But it did not show any record of dealer #2 checking my credit! Remember, I told dealer #2 that dealer #1 had told me that my highest score was 645. I also told dealer #2 the name of dealer #1. Also remember that dealer #1 had told me before that he had a good relationship with dealer #2. Draw your own conclusions.
Armed with all this information I send dealer #1 an email. I tell dealer #1 that I obtained a copy of my "auto enhanced" credit scores, and that two of my scores matched what he told me - 645 and 603. I also tell him that the score he said he didn't check because it was usually the lowest was actually the highest at 672, and that since he said that Subaru takes the highest of your three scores, that would have qualified me for tier III (6.25% for 64-72 months) instead of tier IV (6.9% for 64-72 months). The following day I get a response from him with good news, he was able to get me the 6.25% interest rate!
After your great credit odyssey, did you close the deal? Do you have your new Forester? It will be all the sweeter for your efforts. Congratulations!
I hope I'm posting this to the right place.
I'm new to the Forum and am seriously considering the purchase of a 2009 Forester Premium or Limited. I was leaning towards a Premium originally (for the lower price) but this week I test drove a Limited and it was very very nice to drive.
I am in the SF Bay Area, CA by the way.
Here is one of the better quotes that I received so far from the internet dealer at one of the local (San Jose) dealerships that has positive customer reviews, which I prefer to give my business to.
This is what I am being given:
2009 Forester Limited w/VDC:
Auto trans.
AUTO DIM MIRROR/COMPASS W/HOMELINK
LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT COVER
PZEV
REAR BUMPER COVER
SPLASH GUARD KIT
MSRP: $27,381
Offered internet Price: $24,970 (before tax, title, and license)
For the Premium 2.5x w/VDC and all-weather:
Auto trans.
TAIL PIPE COVER DUAL EXHAUST
CARGO TRAY PLATINUM
LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT COVER
SPLASH GUARD KIT
REAR BUMPER COVER
PZEV CERTIFIED
MSRP of $25,042
invoice: $23,397
offered price: $22,449
Does this seam reasonable?Not sure if I have everything available to know.
I am not too far along in the process, so just gathering info.
Thanks in advance for advice.
Now I can share the details of the deal:
2.5XT Limited, obsidian black
Auto-dimming mirror with Homelink and compass
Puddle light kit
Luggage compartment cover
Rear bumper cover
Cargo tray
All-weather floor mats
Edmunds invoice price, including options: $27,615
Price paid: $26,516 +TTL
I got the 6.25% rate for 72 months with no money down. Overall, I am very pleased with the deal. I spent about two weeks sending emails to 15 different dealerships. Narrowed it down to the lowest offer, they got the car for me from another dealer. Went down to the dealership and it was a very easy straightforward transaction. There were no surprises, everything was as we had agreed upon via email. I drove the car, inspected it, paperwork was completed pretty quickly, I got my two keys plus the valet key and was on my way.
On the 70 mile drive back from the dealership, mostly highway miles, going 60-65 mph, the trip computer said I averaged 27.9 mpg! Wow, I'll take that any day, especially for the turbo!
I hope you have many more happy miles to go!
That's not even fair!
09 Forester Limited
AUTO DIM MIRROR/COMPASS W/HOMELINK
LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT COVER
PZEV CERTIFIED
REAR BUMPER COVER
SPLASH GUARD KIT
Price: $24,970
with tax (CA 8.25%!!) plus license and doc fees, etc:
Out the door: $27,335
I went by today and got the paperwork started. Took about 20 minutes, no pressure for anything extra.
I pick it up Sunday. Pretty excited about it too.
Replacing my 1999 Mazda Protege.
Thanks for all the info in this forum...hope I did good.
Is there any way to ensure that when I return my lease I can have a new xt limited ready to go? Or will I loose all my negotiation ability if I do that?
For that matter, what are good strategies with a lease return if you plan to get another car of the same manufacturer type?
:confuse:
They're not rare. My dealer has 6 of them right now, 1 with NAV.
Bought a new 2009 Forester 2.5x Limited
Options:
Wheel arch moldings
Auto dim mirror w/ compass
Aero cross bars
rear cargo net
MSRP: 27604
Negotiated 25,804
add $469 documentation fee (dealer wouldn't negotiate this)
+ $55 title/tag
+$744 tax in North Carolina.
Minus my trade in value.
The administrative fee is high, but I was pleased with the deal. I insisted on invoice pricing and the negotiations were short. Edmunds price calculator seems way too high. Other buyers are paying nearly MSRP??? No way.
Depends on where you live and often on how good a haggler you are. Edmunds TMV is usually a good reference point but certainly isn't infallible.
Sounds like you got a great deal. Congratulations!
-Frank
with these options:
FACTORY INSTALLED OPTIONS
(Q9F ) OBSIDIAN BLACK PEARL BODYSIDE MOLDING KIT
(U9B ) AERO CROSS BAR KIT
(Q9B ) FOG LAMP KIT
(K9B ) AUTO-DIMMING MIRROR W/COMPASS
(P9J ) REAR BUMPER COVER
The best price I have so far for this is $23,500 including delivery fee. I am in PA. Can I do better than this price? How much more room haggle do I have?
Thanks!
-Frank
2009 2.5x Premium Manual
Only extra is the Cargo cover and PZEV
The dealer claimed it was at memo price :confuse:
She took Invoice and subjected the dealer holdback of $924.00
MSRP: $23,926.00
Invoice: $22,511.00
TMV: $23,561.00
Paid: $21.843.00 + TTL
New 2009s start at around $19k, so you're getting a $2000 discount, though it is the previous generation model.
I'd say that is a fair discount.
Now you have to decide - do you want a bargain 2008? Or would you rather just spend more and get the new and improved 2009?
Totally your call.
Your decision is on price vs. improved product. We traded in earlier forestor for 09 and would do it again.
I'd say yo got an excellent deal. Congratulations!
-Frank
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2009.html#option%20packages
I'm new here and to be honest with you I was considering buying other cars but I passed a Subaru dealership and was very impressed with the 09 Forester. I did some research and here is what I would prefer:
2.5x with Premium package
Manual trans.
Bumper Protection package (maybe)
Red or Blue color
I thought that with the economy like it is that the dealers would be willing to deal. I see good sales prices posted here but dealers aren't offering me a good price, at lease not yet. My questions are:
1. I am having a very hard time locating a vehicle with just the few options listed above. I could find a manual trans in the color I want but with a lot of options that I don't want. When I ask if they could order one equipped as above they say they would rather sell one that is on the lot. Are dealers not ordering cars because they are having a hard time selling the ones on their lot?
2. With the economy seems to be getting worse, does anyone know if Subaru ever offers rebates on 2009's? The only rebates I see them offering is on 2008 models. Or do they rarely, if ever offer rebates on 2009 models?
I was looking at a Toyota and even they are offering good discounts and rebates. I priced a 2009 Matrix-S, sticker was $21,500 and their 1st price offered was $19,500 ($1000 discount + $1000 rebate) which I thought was pretty good. I guess my question is does anyone see Subaru offering rebates on a 2009 Forester in Nov or December?
Thanks,
Frank
Above someone mentioned the autos start at $20.6k - I think you can do a little better than that. Keep shopping, I think you can beat $20k.
Fitzmall has manual X Prem Pkg. for around $21.5k, so that should be a good target. They've got a red one w/All Weather Pkg (heated seats, windshield, mirrors), for $22k.
What part of the country are you in, fsrph? Perhaps we can give you a couple dealer suggestions.
If you're in no hurry, I'd at least consider waiting til the end of the year. Sales prices certainly won't go up, and the economy may be bad enough to prompt a small rebate by then. They usually start at $500, if that's worth the wait and risk there'll be a rebate at all. Subaru's more interested in profit margins than sales volume, so we likely won't see any fire sale price-slashing. Forester's still going strong, Legacy is up, Impreza's down a little, and Outback and Tribeca are down a fair amount. The economy hasn't affected Subaru nearly as much as most manufacturers, so we'll see...