Mazda MPV Prices Paid and Buying Experience

stever

New owners, please tell us about buying your van. Thanks!

Steve, Host

scott31

Got our Midnight Blue LX on 2/28/03.

Came with:

Rear A/C
4 seasons
6-disc CD
ABS/Traction Pkg
Power Doors
Rear Bumper plate
Rear spoiler
Fog lights
AutoDimming rearview mirror

$24,516 S-Plan price.

Brown's Mazda in Alexandria. Buying experience was fantastic.

bsvoller

'03 Sage Green LX on 7/9/2003 with:

Traction Control/Air Bags
Power Moonroof
4 Seasons
Rear Air
Fog Lights
Rear Spoiler
Wheel Locks
Cargo Organizer
Rear Bumper Step Pad
Class III hitch, wiring harness, brake controller
Auto-dimming Mirror

Took $2000 rebate and financed 60 months at 4.34% through dealer. Put about 35% down with rebate before taxes and tags.

Price before taxes & tags (includes destination): $23249

Buying experience at McDonald's Automotive in Littleton, CO was excellent.

-brianV

bottgers

'03 Sage green LX purchased on 7/11/03

DVD
Rear air
4 seasons
Roof rack

S-Plan price $21,726

Purchased from Mazda of Lakewood, CO. which was the best buying experience I've ever had.

aia1

Cory Fairbanks Mazda Longwood Fla....Currently under investigation by Florida Attorney General's office. I unfortunately found out why. The place is a high stakes casino were the odds are stacked in favor of the house. Paid too much. Felt ripped off...I was told that cops are called almost weekly by distraught customers. I had my full deal put together for an EX but they did not have the right car. I made the mistake of switching to the LX and that's when everything fell apart. I should have smelled the rats before signing. Lessons learned....but this dealership is a blight on the Mazda brand.

sparkymarky74

We were offered a invoice price of $23,373 for a 2003 LX MPV with 16" alloy rims, wheel locks, power sliding doors, rear air, roof rack and rear step plate. We were going to but 2 grand down and take the 0% financing. The problem is that we would lose about $1500 on our trade-in. We don't need the car but would like to have a minivan.

I need some outside input. Pros/Cons?....Take it/Leave it?.....Negotiate somemore?

Thanks.

robevts

Is the dealer offering 0 financing on the invoice price?? If so I think it would be a very fair deal. I was checking out MPVs at dealers in Tucson, and they only give 0 if you pay MSRP. Maybe they are trying to make up for it buy screwing you on your trade. It was a joke what they offered on my 98 caravan. I ended up selling it in the paper last week for 3000.00 more than what the best price the dealers would give me for it. I priced it fairly, and sold it to the first person that came to look too!...piece of cake. My experience over the past decades has always been that the dealer always has the financial upperhand when you trade. Anyway, we really liked the MPV, but last wknd, I ended up putting a 500 dep on a 2003 odyssey that I got in Houston for invoice. Good luck with your vehicle purchase!

rj8957

2003 MPV LX
Silver metallic
Rear air
Roof rack
Rear bumper step

Sticker: $24,500
Paid: $20,200 + tax and dest. at Morande Mazda, Manchester, CT

We love this van, looks great (for a minivan) rides great, feels solid, very functional, best vehicle I've ever owned.

dtownfb

As far as trades are concerned, you have to understand that the used car market took 2 large hits over the past few years. (1) All the lease returns. In the mid 90s the dealerships pushed leases and all of a sudden people were returning the vehicles to the dealership and leasing new cars. The good is they buy or lease a new car, the bad iss what do you do with all of these used cars. So the dealerships are stuck with all of these used cars on their lots. If they can't sell them, then they go to auction where you get less then the car is worth. Thus it re-adjusts what the car is worth on the lots and for lease returns. Too much supply and not enough demand. It creates a nasty cycle. (2) Sept. 11th and all the rebates that followed. When a manufacturer offers a cash rebate on a car, that money is comes off the value of the car. So a car that is $15k with a $1500 rebate has a true value of $13,500. Now all the used cars get re-adjusted based on that price. So two years ago, there was a major adjustment in the value of cars. You have the rebates being offered and all these off lease cars on the used car market drove down the cost of used cars. Also is caused many problems for leasing companies. The Guaranteed value of the car after X years (in the lease contract)was now too high. So they were stuck with cars that were lower in value then they guaranteed.

Right now, the only way to expect a good money for your trade is if you have a late model car in demand or if the dealer is really trying to get asale. Otherwise, you are better off sellingit on your own.

sparkymarky74

Yeah, we leased the car a 2000 Nissan Maxima SE in June of 2000. It was a new design and people were paying top dollar for the car then. We were able to write-off some of the expenses but I hate to have to dish out an additonal $1500 for "nothing." We are negotiating with the dealer to see if they will give us an additonal $500 off the selling price or towards the trade-in value. 0% on a $24,000 minivan is a pretty good deal. We will see what happens. Thanks for the info

scott31

NEVER put money down on 0% financing.....

NEVER

sparkymarky74

What's wrong with putting money down on 0% financing?

ccna

It makes no sense to put money down on a 0% loan. You are getting a free interest loan so why cheat yourself. It doesn't cost anything to borrow money for next 5 years. Only reason I can see why someone would put money down on a 0% loan is, if they want to pay it off quicker or have lower monthly payment they can work with. You can also pay it off quicker by paying extra each month but why would anyone do that unless they just want to pay it off qucker.

dtownfb

0% financing - Don't forget some manufacturers require you put 10% down on the 0% financing. It all depends on how long you plan to keep the car. Now I would definitely say never put any money on a lease except the required fees.

sparkymarky74

Thanks for all of the input. We picked up a 03 LX about a week and a half ago. We got the car for invoice with 0% financing but were upside down on our trade-in. So we put a little down to lower the monthly payments.

Karen_S

Mazda Mania Chat
Tuesday nights - 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET.

nikkifastcar1

I went to a dealer in Oakland...BIG mistake. At first they were happy to sell me the car at $20,055 before taxes and before the $2,500 REBATE. Then they found out I had a pre-approved loan from my Credit Union and they freaked out. The salesman even yelled at me and told me I should be ashamed....how he had to keep the lights on and so on it really got ugly for no good reason other than he couldn't screw me on th financing and stuff. I walked and am still searching to match the deal someplace else. o

stever

Makes this new article even more timely:

Financing Pitfalls and Solutions

And it's ok to name dealers, per the blurb above. Best leave the salesperson out of it though :-)

Steve, Host

daron1

I'm in the midst of dealing for an '03 MPV, or passing it buy & waiting for an '04. I'd love the cash back rebate, but I also wouldn't mind waiting...since I've waited this long...for a slightly updated '04. I almost gave up hope trying to find one optioned exactly as I wanted...w/ the all-sports package, etc. CW11 over on the MPV string re-kindled my hopes when he wrote about finding such a package in NY. I had a dealer in MD look one last time, & they found one in midnight blue...which was not my color choice, but not bad either. Anyway, he offered 24480 + 99 dealer fee. I countered w/ Edmunds price of 23698. He was suprised I was asking for the car below(-204)invoice. Another web site gave a market price of 24141, which is 239 over invoice. He's getting back to me today. Should I hold out for the Edmunds TMV on a van I 95% like, but am not emotionally tied to...yet? Thanks

bjsettle

I am in the market for a "bare bones" '03 MPV ES.

I live in Central Arkansas, and there are not many to choose from. So, I went to the Mazda site and started searching nearby cities and states and was amazed at how many '03 MPV ES's are still available. At least 1000 between Chicago, St Louis, Tulsa, Kansas City, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Shreveport.

That seems like a very large number given that it is at the end of the model year. It also tells me that holding out for Edmunds TMV is not unreasonable.

On Sunday, I requested a quote from 4 dealers across 3 states and so far I have received only one real response (the rest were automated responses).

I am going to hang tough until the end of the month and see just how hungry these guys are.

Ben Settle
Hot Springs Village, Arkansas

subearu

that the inventory listings on the Mazda site aren't always up-to-date. It could be behind a week or so. It's best to call the dealer or check their website for a more to up-to-date listing. There is also a phone number at Mazda to call to see where vehicles are (at the port, en route, etc.)

-Brian

lumbar

Don't know where you are in Md. but have you tried either of the Fitzgerald dealerships in Annapolis or Frederick. They both show MPVs for a little under invoice on the website. Of course they may not have exactly what you're looking for, but they appear to be a couple of hundred below even after the cash back.

daron1

I live in NE MD & I found a dealer in Bel Air who was willing to help me & has been great, so far, to work with. Earlier, a dealership in DE couldn't find ANY w/sports pkg., so the MD dealer atleast found one...maybe it was in Annapolis or Frederick? Anyway, I've pretty much decided to wait for an '04, which my dealer told me he could get for me at invoice...and then I'll have exactly what I want. Now I just have to find some official, NA photos so that I can see exaclty what I'm getting. Thanks again.

lumbar

I've kind of decided to wait too, but there are some deals on 03s that are pretty hard to pass up. This one in Frederick almost got me:

http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=03- 76865&photo=MA03MP2ESA&loc=FCG&mall=FD&year=2003&- amp;mk_code=MA

I'm hoping the 04s are actually pretty close to the Japanese pictures we've seen. The titanium 04 is one nice van IMO.

sebr0d1e

This is from a post (#6369) I entered back in August in the MPV chat when my wife and I had just purchased our MPV ES. I never got a response over in the other chat, so if someone is able to provide me with an answer here, it'd be greatly appreciated..thx.

Howdy Yall! Like 2 intro myself..me'n the missus're proud new owners of '02 MPV ES..since we got it, found this here msg board..went back to start of conversation on '02s and read all way to latest msgs today (3 days..yes i have a j-o-b, but your discussions were that riveting 2 say the least)..anyways, just wanted to say, glad 2 be able to join the discussions of MPVs...u guys r so passionate about your vehicles..i like that..i'm a car nut! reading, working on (although I don't, wish i new how)...anyway..want your opinions on whether i got ripped off/not..here goes...purchased:

'02 MVP ES: std w/ all std 02 ES stuff; no moonroof, spoiler, 6D CD changer, foglights, or DVD (want DVD tho for 6yo daughter).

Had 11,200K miles, paid $20,860 + ttl, warrant (gold pack, extd from 3/50 > 6/100) & gap ins..total = 24331.44 at 4.1%/72mos. pmt = 385.20/mo. 1st pmt not due for 3mos.

Good deal or bad?

forgot to mention..no money down, no trade in either.

bjsettle

According to Edmunds TMV - you can buy a new barebones ES for $21,935 (after $2500 rebate). That's about $1100 more than your '02. Only you can determine whether the 11,000 miles was worth the $1100 difference.

Now, that TMV is below invoice, so it depends on the dealer and your negotiating skills whether or not you can get that price.

BTW, according to the www.mazdausa.com website there are a lot of '03 MPVs still available, including the ES model.

quest132k

Wagner Mazda, Fostoria Ohio
2003 MPV LX; 4 seasons pkg; all-sport pkg; rear air; traction control/side air bags; roof rack, wheel locks; (MSRP 25,890)
Actual Total $21,620 =
Invoice 23810 + 200, - 2500 rebate, + 110 doc/title fee.
That's not quite as low as the Edmunds TMV "below invoice" deals, but the dealer had it delivered to me out of state (200 mi). I still have to pay my sales tax when I register it.
Took 2 5-minute phone calls to negotiate, and 3 minutes to sign papers when it was delivered.
No nasty dealings with F&I, no pushy extended warranty plans, no overpriced dealer add-ons (I can buy a can of Scotchgard myself, thank you).
I won't be losing any sleep over whether I could have maybe gotten the same van for $200-300 less.
I have been watching the inventory in 4 - 5 states for about a month now. There seem to still be quite a few of the low-price SV models and also the high-end SEs - but not too many in the just-right middle of the range.

steppwolf

Purchased '03 LX at Sunflower Mazda in Lenexa, KS on 10/18. All seasons pkg, wheel locks, roof rack, moonroof . . . sticker $26,045. Discounts and rebate brought down to $21,328 before taxes.

I'd been driving a '91 Toyota Previa (original owner). That was a very serviceable vehicle and still has some life in it. Buying decision included test drives of Odyssey and Sienna, as well as some SUV's. MPV seemd the best fit for my situation (overall family utility + economy + reliability + price), and I found the driving position/seat comfort to be the best of the lot for me. The MPV's handling is a bonus in the equation.

Hope this vehicle turns out to be as sound a long-term investment as the Previa was.

chris209

4 seasons, rear air, roof rack. $22,500 before $2,500 hundred rebate. Good deal?

scott31

You got a $250,000 rebate???? Wow, what dealership?

:-)

charlontario

My husband and I purchased a new 2004 mpv dx Sand Mica colour with convience package, your basic model with automatic locks on Sept. 30 2003. Last day for sale msp $27500 cad sale $24795 cad. We were told by our sales agent the price would not be lower. I really tried to get him to lower the price but he could't do it. His hands were tied. Looking back on it why I didn't think of course it would be lower as each day the car gets older. Hindsight can be cruel.
 
The dealership gave us $1000 for our 92 Previa, really rough shape 214 km and tailgate was very rusted. We, like fools took the extras
such as rust proofing, special shine and glass tint. Paid $29786.00 cad. On Oct. 3 there was an ad in the Toronto Star same van sale price $22995.00

I was sick. Felt like I sold down the river. A sucker. At first our dealership said it wasn't the same van. It was. Said couldn't really do anything. The deal was done on Sept. 30, month end.

My husband said you can make this right.You can do something. Spoke to Mazda Canada who suggested we write a letter which we were doing when we got a call 3 days later. The manager called offering us the extended warranty, 7 yrs 160 km.
Value $1610.00 plus pst and gst 15%. We took it
but I still feel stupid. Lesson learned.

I thought I did my homework by reading up on these sites but I was looking at resale then decided why not go for brand new. I have never had a brand new car. Always had used. Now I feel used.

But I will get over it. I do like the way the van rides although I have noticed the jerky feeling it has sometime from 2 to 3. Is that just because it is new? Only have 520 km. I had thought the gas mileage would be better, it seems like the fuel gauge moves down with each mile. Is tis beacuse it is new?

After reading all the great deals some people got I will make sure I do better next time.

lazyfox

Did you get 2003 model or 2004 model?

charlontario

I had bought a 2003 MPV not 2004. Sorry about that. The dealer said he did not know that the price would be advertised at a new lower rate. Mazda Canada controls those big sales, so the dealer said. This I know can be possible as I work in sales and sometime ads come out and you really do have no prior knowledge but part of me still wonders.

I feel I have been zoomed zoomed.

bigdadi

Seeing the best/lowest price on the paper doesn't mean anything. Firstly, only "1" ad car is available, it may have been sold long before your call or visit, it may be not the color you like, it may be some fine prints, like college grad discount that you may not be qualified. Afterall there can be ONLY 1 person bought this ad car and the rest owners bought a little higher or similar price. In October Mazda rebate is $2500usd compared with Sept $2000usd, extra $500usd bargain. Don't feel so sick as long as your price is close to that ad car.

bigdadi

I bought the mpv in 9/29 with Mazda's $2000 rebate, I would have wait till Oct if I knew Mazda rebate in Oct is $500 more. See my point?

charlontario

How kind of you to suggest that maybe there was just the "1" ad. There was no grad discount either and the later the following week there were more ads. The ad was very specific, MPV DX with convience package. $22995.00 cad and all those lovely fees, freight tax etc. Exactly like what I had bought. I quess there are lots of 2003 MPV Dx out there and Mazda has to sell them before the 2004 come along.

I had got it into my head that buying at the end of the month would be give a better deal in that the dealer would want to make it's month. I was lucky that way with my last two cars. Not 3rd time lucky I guess.

charlontario

I see you point. Where would it end. I guess what got me was that it happen in the same week. If only I had waited but my Previa was not working well and could of packed it in. So I keep that in mind. If I had waited my Previa might not have.

samiam12

Please tell me something, I just bought black '03 MPV LX SV with Rear AC option. I have to pick it up tomorrow. I paid $17600 plus tax and title. This was after rebate. I think this was pretty good but not sure. What do you guys think??

Sam

lumbar

Edmunds doesn't list the rear air as an option on the SV, but, if you figure about $500 for it, that puts invoice at about $21050. If the rebate was $2500, you're still almost a grand below invoice. What not to like?

I don't see how the dealer could do that and make any money. Did you finance through them? Any other fees to pad the bottom line?

samiam12

Samiam, I felt good when I left the dealership yesterday, and today I even feel better after reading your post. Carsdirect.com lists the rear AC option. It is about $500. No I did not finance through them, I intend to pay cash. No other fees besides title, tax and doc. fee. The only problem was that they only had one MPV LX-SV with rear AC so I had no choice on color. I got black color. Not my first choice but still good.

audia8q

Don't sweat it....the worlds second biggest lie is what somebody paid for a car. Cruise around edmunds and you will see tall tales of people buying the hottest cars in the world for thousand below cost, hahaha. Last time I checked santa clause is not a dealership employee!!

In the long run, you can consider this a lesson learned...maybe you can do a bit more next time but you did end up with one of the best mini-vans offered for sale at any price. Don't spend alot of time second guessing, the hard part is over, enjoy your new van!!!

quark255

Hi,
   I am also debating the same thing myself for a MPV LX. I would like the rebates of the '03 LX. The big differences I see are that the '04 it gets rear disc brakes to me, and rear AC become standard. Anything else?
  What would be the price impact of a '04 vs '03 for the same model (LX) with the similar options. I am preapred to pay a little bit more for the rear disc brakes, but need some idea of how much this would cost me.
Thanks

backy

The Edmunds TMV calculator can be of some help here. I ran the numbers for similarly-equipped '03 and '04 LX models (only the '04 has rear disks of course) and the difference was about $2000, based on more rebates and dealer incentives on the '03.

mnana

I just had the most horrible experience from Sansone mazda at route 1 New Jersey. I was in on Monday (11/3/2003) and was already very upset with them. They kept us hostage for 2 hrs because we would not deal. I told them RIGHT at the beginning that I wanted to test drive Quest and Oddessy before I decide on the Mini van to purchase. The salesperson, ***, would not let us leave. He kept on implying that we promised to buy the car when we asked to test drive and that in New Jersey, customers are not allowed to test drive but he let us do it because we look professional. When we finally stand up to walk out, he was still badgering us. Then phone rang and I thought that it would be a nice gesture to ask him for a name card. When I asked him that, he was in the process of picking up the phone. He waved rudely at me, frowned and said "give me a minute". I had a 2 yrs old and a 8 mths old. I had enough of this waiting game. He took forever to get the keys, to go into his manager's office for negotiation, to make copies of our license. I just wanted to leave so I interrupted him and said very nicely "I just wanted your ...". He waved at me and frowned again (this time even more pronounced) and said "give me a minute". I just walked out. My husband felt really bad for him so he went to get the name card. He again complaint about us not buying form him. This whole time he was talking really loud and we felt really intimidated. I was so afraid that he would beat me up if I negotiate the price. We left and on Wednesday and Thursday, the dealership called us and told us that they can work with us. *** also called on Thursday to tell us to just give him a price. Today (Saturday), we saw their advertisement for MPV ES for $20800+ with MSRP at $29510. We called *** in the afternoon and asked him about it. He said that we can pick ANY in the stock and get around that price. First we went to Quest for a test drive. We were quoted a very good price. Then we decided that since *** also promised us a very good deal, we would chose MPV although it is a smaller van. We were late for our appointment with *** and when we called him, he did not tell us that the van was sold just a while ago nor did he say the price was only for 1 van. When we arrive at the dealership, it was 10 minutes to closing. I was prepared to give a deposit and pick up the car on Monday so that they can go home. When we found out that it was only for 1 van and that it was sold, we chose 1 with the same features and told him the price we are willing to pay which was very close to their advertised price. He went into the manager's office and the manager came out shouting across the showroom saying "Madam, we cannot sell the car to you for $21000. We would be making a lost of $8000+". He was really loud. I was really glad that we were so late or we would have been embarassed. It was this later part that totally disgusted me. *** started the talk about us being educated people and intelligent. That we cannot expect them to sell us the car for that price and kept on forcing me to give them another price. He started saying that he infact sold the advertised car for $22900. I told him that he can give me another $500 rebate because I am in graduate school. He was talking so loud that I think he couldn't hear me. When we gave the price of $21000, we expected them to give us a counter offer. At this point, I felt lied to, totally embarassed, fustrated and just wanted to go back to my Quest dealer. So I told him that I just wanted to pay $21000. Since he was obviously not keeping his word, I said Thank you and began walking out. He then began saying that he waited for us and that we wasted his time. At one point he repeated the educated, intelligent and reasonable talk thus implying that we were being totally unreasonable. My husband was upset at this point. My 8 mths old was tired and we, their parents, were being shouted at. We do not think it is a good experience for them too. My husband said, "Thank you for being sarcastic". He replied "Thank you for being stupid". I feel totally upset at this point. My husband and I both felt that we might not have been the most profitable customers for Mazda but now we will never be a customer for Mazda. About four years ago, I went shopping for a Mazda in Ohio with a friend and when we asked if we could negotiate the price, the salesperson said that we should come back only when we have the money. It was true that he was quite poor at that time because he just graduated from College. So instead we went to Nissan and bought an Altima. Now, Mazda dealer has done it again to us again. We are just going to buy from Nissan because they were much friendlier. I will also educate my children and friends to stay away from Mazda because their salesperson are horrible.

stever

Ugh. Maybe you should write up a complaint letter to your local consumer affairs agency and copy the dealer General Manager and Madza corporate.

Have you checked out our Tips & Advice pages? Don't miss Confessions of a Car Salesman either.

Steve, Host

subearu

It's sad this still affects virtually all car manufacturers, not only Mazda.

Do write or call MazdaUSA and file a complaint with your local BBB.

-Brian

backy

Wow. Now I understand why the "no-haggle" dealerships are increasing in number. Personally I enjoy negotiating for a car, but when buyers have experiences like this, it shows the benefit of the no-haggle method. I don't think you can get the absolute best deal at one of these places, but if it saves grief as described above, maybe it's worth paying a little more for a stress-free buying experience. I only ran into a car salesperson like that once in my life, when I was with a friend who was shopping for a '79 Chevette. The salesperson was loud and insulting. Fortunately, the sales manager intervened and apologized for her behavior. But my friend went to another dealership anyway.

mnana

I called MazdaUSA this morning and the CSR said that he documented the incident and will pass it on to their board. Then I called Sansone. I told the operator that I want to talk to their Customer Service. He transfered me to a senior sales staff. I got the feeling that there is no department to file my complain with the dealership. Anyway, I told him that I want my information destroyed and explain the situation to him. He said that he will talk to his manager. He also asked if he can try to work out a deal, similar to the one advertised, for us. I said no. Sounds tempting but I would be a fool to let them do it to me a third time. I do not expect anything to happen.
I went back to the same dealership on Saturday because I read the Confessions of a Car Salesman and thought that the salesperson must be under a lot of stress to push the sale. So I felt that his attitude was excusable.

tomj5

Tj Rules on buying a car....

1. Determine your NEEDS, not wants... (Example;Do you REALLY need FWD or a moon roof?)
2. How much money can you take out of your income.. Don't forget yearly plates and insurance.. Look at daily costs/maintenance. Just because the car has a low price doesn't mean it is affordable. This is a joint DW/DH decision both must agree..
3. Go to Edmunds and research your vehicles. Use Edmunds to find the options. Dealers will not disclose the options. They want to sell you a "Lot Queen" with no options.... They will also "forget" to mention factory rebates. (Dealer pockets rebate)
4. Go to the dealer "armed" with Edmunds info and prices. Stick to your prices(know how much you can go up before you start)...
5. NEVER trust a dealer's word. GET IT IN WRITTING. Never ASSUME what the dealer said...
6. Dealers don't give a damn about customer relations. (How many cars a year are you going to buy?)
7. Don't get emotional when dealing(walk out if it gets intense). Never chit chat with the salesman. He is probing for your weaknesses. (Never take the kids of any age.. Keep your focus on the deal not chit chat.. Don't discuss issues with DW/DH in salesman's presence. Most dealer offices are bugged.. Sit in the car.)
8. Not a good idea to use dealer financing, but that is up to your judgement. Just beware...
9. Think over (24hrs)a deal before you sign... Ignore "must sign" today deals...
10. Trade ins are dicey. Beware...(know what your trade in is worth locally.)
11. Take a shower when you get home to wash off the Dealer Scum, you will feel better..

I would add: Any attempt at intimidation or signs of disrespect, RUN, not walk to nearest exit!!!
Plus NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give your car keys to the salesman to check your trade in!!! (The hostage ploy is an old trick. Once a salesman "lost" my keys. I saw them on the manager's desk. He had "gone" to lunch. I kicked in the door and got my keys and left after a few choice words.. never heard anything about it. (Don't mess with a Marine!))

Assume the worst about salesmen and you will be right most of the time....
It is not Mazda, it is ALL of them.

Learned the Hard Way....
Tj

pb17

How much has the 2004 price increased over 2003? Are the rear discs the reason? Or just a general hike? Where can one get this info?

audia8q

funny, I've always said something similar.

"Assume the worst about customers and you will be right most of the time....
It is not Mazda buyers, it is ALL of them."