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Volkswagen Stops Sale of 2015 Diesel Vehicles After EPA Says Emissions Laws Were Violated | Edmunds.

Edmunds.comEdmunds.com Posts: 9,714
edited September 2015 in Volkswagen
imageVolkswagen Stops Sale of 2015 Diesel Vehicles After EPA Says Emissions Laws Were Violated | Edmunds.com

Volkswagen of America told its U.S. dealers to stop sales of some remaining 2015 diesel vehicles, including the 2015 Volkswagen Golf and Jetta 2.0L TDI models, after the Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board said the automaker sold cars that violated U.S. emissions laws.

Read the full story here


Comments

  • diigiidiigii Posts: 156
    It's amazing how companies like VW love to spin the issue as not their fault but they knowingly put software into their cars to just do the objective.
  • It's amazing that this does not come out until after the EPA itself causes a huge environmental problem with waste from an abandoned gold mine; even though the claim is that the Volkswagens in question have been in violation of emission laws for over five years.
  • Apparently this was discovered not by the EPA but by a university over a year ago. The EPA then did their own testing and came up with the same results. They asked VW for an explanation and initially VW said they had no idea why there was a discrepancy. It wasn't until the EPA threatened to with hold certification for all 2016 VW models did they finally admit to programming the computer to cheat the test.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,741
    You would think that this would hurt VW sales, but I'm wondering if it will in the world of brand-loyal customers.

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  • What is MORE criminal ? .... VW cheating with its emission software or Edmunds.com NOT catching it? I think both have zero credibility.
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 251
    How many TDI owners do you think will ever take their cars in for the software fix?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    edited September 2015
    TDI - “Total Disaster In Diesel” and “Trickery Disguised as Innovation”.

    "The Volkswagen crisis, in knocking the clean-air and fuel-economy reputation of the fuel, might accentuate “a secular long-term shift from diesel to gasoline,” say analysts at brokerage house Evercore ISI.

    Max Warburton, an automotive analyst at Bernstein Research, is more categorical about whether this means the end of diesel. “Yes, it probably does,” he says."


    Volkswagen Affair Casts Dark Shadow Across Diesel (WSJ)
  • texasestexases Posts: 7,759
    Europe was already shifting away as a result of eliminating the lower taxes on diesel vs. gas. Then they added additional pollution specs. Now this. I wonder where all that diesel (an unavoidable product of refining oil) will go in 5 years?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,125
    the_jerns said:

    It's amazing that this does not come out until after the EPA itself causes a huge environmental problem with waste from an abandoned gold mine; even though the claim is that the Volkswagens in question have been in violation of emission laws for over five years.

    So what you are saying is that if the EPA made other mistakes, that excuses VW?
  • mike91326mike91326 SoCalPosts: 251
    I think the big problem will be that a lot of TDI owners will never take their car in for the fix. My friend has a 2010 Jetta TDI and he has never taken it to the dealer for service. He told me that he does not plan to have the car reprogrammed if it is recalled.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    edited September 2015
    If your friend is also in SoCal, registration could be an issue if CARB decides to require recalled TDIs to actually have the recall performed in order to renew the registration. Assuming they have the power to do that. I could see part of the VW settlement to include funding for highway spot checks.

    Wouldn't surprise me if the Lung Association or asthma related groups decide to lobby for just such actions.
  • mike91326 said:

    I think the big problem will be that a lot of TDI owners will never take their car in for the fix. My friend has a 2010 Jetta TDI and he has never taken it to the dealer for service. He told me that he does not plan to have the car reprogrammed if it is recalled.

    I am not surprised. If reprogramming entails dumbing down the car with low mileage, poor torque and poor acceleration, I would not get it reprogrammed either. Let me drive it or pay my money back.

  • Not to excuse VW... But a friend of mine recalls the good old days when people would take their car to be tuned just before going to DEQ...then return to the shop to have them get it back to running right AFTER passing DEQ...

    Suppose it's been a game for ages. And we've made tremendous progress. The good news for Golf owners seems to be that the impact was that VW was trying to pass EPA AND get better gas mileage - so it's not going to hurt driving performance...just gas mileage.
  • texasestexases Posts: 7,759
    No way to know yet. A fix could easily hurt both mpgs and performance.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,741
    How much will be the big question.

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  • mike91326 said:
    I think the big problem will be that a lot of TDI owners will never take their car in for the fix. My friend has a 2010 Jetta TDI and he has never taken it to the dealer for service. He told me that he does not plan to have the car reprogrammed if it is recalled.
    I have a 2013 Passat tdi and I will resist as long as possible unless tests show that it doesn't cause any problems and mpg stays high
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    edited October 2015
    A reporter seeks to interview a current VW TDI owner who expects to buy another car in the next two years. Please email PR@edmunds.com before Oct. 7, 2015 with your thoughts..
  • So vw has indicated they are not going to sell the 2106 tdi models in the usa. Since dealers are not selling any tdi now what does that mean to the value of preowned tdi ? Will the value go up due to limited supply? Will consumers stop demanding tdi and cause  a reduction in price as well?  Anyone tracking  kbb values on tdi models?

    Can I sell my 2013 Passat tdi for  more today or just stick with the original plan to keep it for 20 years?



  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,741
    Well if the demand for the preowned tdi's went up, the price might. But just from casual conversations I've heard at the gym, some folks are thinking about diesel like they have some kind of communicable disease right now.

    Nothing like a good media frenzy ;)

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  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 58,543
    So vw has indicated they are not going to sell the 2106 tdi models in the usa. Since dealers are not selling any tdi now what does that mean to the value of preowned tdi ? Will the value go up due to limited supply? Will consumers stop demanding tdi and cause  a reduction in price as well?  Anyone tracking  kbb values on tdi models?

    Can I sell my 2013 Passat tdi for  more today or just stick with the original plan to keep it for 20 years?



    I think it's too early to tell. The 2016's are not on sale .... Yet. They may be soon. Or not. 

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  • texasestexases Posts: 7,759
    I don't think it's a permanent stop, just until everything's cleared up.
  • I believe VW is missing the boat on this. They have an opportunity to adjust the tuning on the tdi models to provide greater efficiency and thus reduce pollution and increase milleage. Ask any tdi owner about driving their car and they will tell you that the turbo and low end torque of a 2L tdi are sometimes too much for daily driving.  There is a sport mode that changes the gear shifts to Rev the engine higher when performance is needed. They could program the ecu to turn the normal drive option to be very efficient with slower acceleration less fuel and more efficiency. 
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 58,543

    I believe VW is missing the boat on this. They have an opportunity to adjust the tuning on the tdi models to provide greater efficiency and thus reduce pollution and increase milleage. Ask any tdi owner about driving their car and they will tell you that the turbo and low end torque of a 2L tdi are sometimes too much for daily driving.  There is a sport mode that changes the gear shifts to Rev the engine higher when performance is needed. They could program the ecu to turn the normal drive option to be very efficient with slower acceleration less fuel and more efficiency. 

    Not sure I can agree with everything in your post. I suspect many people bought the TDI specifically because of the extra torque, when compared to the sluggish acceleration of a hybrid.

    Taking the performance away will affect how those folks feel about their car, which is why I believe VW is trying to develop a solution that minimizes the impact to the driving experience.

    They may not succeed, but time will tell...

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  • texasestexases Posts: 7,759
    edited October 2015
    The cheat code was to allow higher pollution (NOx) associated with better efficiency. Bringing the NOx down will likely reduce fuel economy. NOx is not unburned fuel, it's a product of high combustion pressure and temperature.
  • kenger1kenger1 Posts: 20
    New York state does not even test emission on diesel engines. I own a 2014 TDI Jetta and refuse to take it to the dealer when they do decide on a "fix" I enjoy my 50mpg too much.
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