Acura TSX S-Type

gkearns56

A few weeks back I posted a message about the TSX S-Type eventually would be coming out after watching an auto show on ESPN2. The 2003 Frankfurt Auto Show is wrapping up and in the website's photo gallery (if you are a member) you can see several pics of the new TSX S-Type photos.

On one picture the car reads "Accord S-Type" on the rear end. Clearly this is a TSX because of the styling but just the European moddel.

If you do not find it on that site, you can get to the more then 800 pictures of the "2003 Frankfurt Auto Show" through this VW Vortex site, http://www.vwvortex.com/ and by clicking on the auto show icon.

Enjoy!

uncledavid

is basically very similar to the European Accord S-Type. At this point, Acura doesn't have any plans for a TSX S-type.

jchan2

It would overlap the base TL. At that price, may as well buy the TL.

gkearns56

Uncledavid: The Acura TSX IS an European Accord. This is noted even by Honda. Additionally, it has already been confirmed Honda is going to build the Acura TSX S-Type. This was noted by through Honda management and shown at another Auto Show (ESPN2) I posted a few weeks ago.

There are numerous reason why they will go ahead with this. The price will not interfer with th new "TL" because pricing for the new TL will BEGIN at $33k without the navigational system. The cost of adding 20-25 more hp and maybe larger tires and other detail to make it look sportier hardly competes with the TL's new more powerful '04 car & engine.

Just look at Nissan's Alima can climb to over $30k with options when compared to the new Maxima now $28 - $35 range. Acura is looking at a target date of Nov 2004 for this as a 2005 model.

uncledavid

That is the point. The vehicle you are describing is the sporty version of the Euro Accord, and was rebadged as the TSX. You are not describing the TSX "Type S" you are describing the base TSX as it is now.

Honda has not acknowledged that they are going to build a TSX Type S. I don't know where you got that impression, but if you have a link, I'd be happy to see it. In fact, in the press releases for the TL, there were several comments suggesting there were no Type S versions planned for either line.

jchan2

A-SPEC Edition Currently offered on 04 TL.
FP Edition, currently offered for Accord Coupe and RSX

uncledavid

I'm not saying Honda won't offer a performance edition of the TSX. In fact, I think it is likely that they will eventually. The typical marketing strategy that Honda employs is to introduce some sort of special edition or extra-sport version a few years into the model run. Typically, they do this as a strategy to increase interest in a vehicle that is no longer attracting the hype of a new model. In the case of the TSX, however, sales are red hot and Honda has shown no interest in introducing a "Type S."

I think, eventually, we may see a sportier version of the TSX. I doubt it will be called "Type S" though because Acura seems to want to get away from that designation.

jchan2

With Acura products, introduce a Sport model a few years into a model that hasn't been reaping sales. With Honda, in the last year of a model line, introduce a Special Edition to clear out some parts left over from LX cars and EX cars. Witness the 97 Accord. Came with LX cloth, EX Moonroof, EX CD Player, LX/EX paint.

uncledavid

And that is why, when TSX sales do cool off, we may see some sort of sport model or special edition.

jchan2

I like the Honda/Acura special edition models. Gives them a sense of uniqueness in the sea of all the other Honda/Acuras. Surprised there's no Odyssey Special Edition considering a new one is due for 2005. The Sienna did the same. Offered a Symphony Edition in the last two years of the old Sienna. Hope they offer it again when sales cool. Some of us want two power doors but couldn't care less about the power hatch. (My friend exactly thinks that way- he ended up taking the power hatch and buying leather. Cost him $33K!!!)

uncledavid

because it is still selling like mad. Maybe demand will slow down now that the new Sienna is out.

jchan2

Odysseys are still selling like mad?!?! In my area, all the dealers are willing to sell for invoice and on the EX models, they'll upgrade you to the EX-L model for free.

jchan2

the dealers in my area aren't the most friendly either. The friendliest dealers I'd have to say is the Acura dealer where MDX's are still selling for sticker and you have to order them.

jchan2

badge engineering. All the profits on the MDX will cover the losses made on the RL, which is the slowest selling Honda/Acura product.

uncledavid

as I understand it.

qbrozen

i thought the caravan was still the best selling minivan in America?

maybe i'm wrong... maybe i can find that info somewhere...

uh... nope.. can't seem to find it. But I do believe its still the Caravan. Honda just doesn't pump out Minivans in numbers like the Big 3.

uncledavid

Actually, I think Honda and Toyota both outsold the Caravan last year, but I could be wrong as well.

qbrozen

dodge caravans sold in U.S. during 2002 = 244,911
Honda sold 153,467 Odysseys

unfortunately, no Toyota data for '02 that I can see, but they did sell 88,469 Siennas in '01.

oh, this is all from this site:
http://www.autointell.com

don't know if its a reputable source, though.

geesh. we're way off topic. How did that happen? Well, ok, anybody know any sales figures for the TSX? Maybe that would indicate if they even need a typeS (is that maybe how we got here?)

uncledavid

even if we are off topic, it was nice of you too look them up.

The TSX is selling well. Honda/Acura sold about 14,000 since April. They've basically already reached their sales goal for the year (15,000). I'm assuming,however, that sales will cool off quite a bit when the TL hits the scene.

jchan2

will cool when the TL arrives as some people are tech savvy. The TSX is selling like hotcakes- the TMV on Edmunds is sticker price.

jchan2

The TMV is rarely MSRP.

qbrozen

that's true, jchan, but that doesn't mean that's what you have to pay.

For instance, my wife and I bought a Pilot a little while back. Everyone said MSRP (even TMV). But we held out and got a deal. Granted, not ALOT off or anywhere near invoice, but $1100 off is better than nothing. So I think the same could be done with the TSX. It just takes patience.

kyfdx

I received postcards in the mail.. Honda Finance will waive your first lease payment up to $400 on any 2003 Odyssey through the end of the month. So, there are incentives on the '03s.

regards,
kyfdx

jchan2

Wow. Special lease rates on Odysseys!

gbrozen,
true. But that means that you won't get much off MSRP. Unlike the TMV for the Chevy Cavalier. Seems like the TMV is next to nothing on that car.

jchan2

Any info on whether a special edition TSX will be produced????

chillenhonda

Im not sure of certain numbers, but I had heard from numerous sources that the goal was 15,000 for the year and they had pretty much surpassed that already. A number of dealers I went to said they were selling as soon as they got them in, and pretty much everyone on the lot was sold. Just today went to Cush Acura San Diego and they had none, not even to sit in. Salesperson told me they had 5 yesterday, sold them all. Pretty impressive.

jchan2

TMV on the TSX is sticker. Just like the TL. Both seem like pretty hot sellers.

varmint

No one has confirmed a TSX Type S. It appears that Acura is dropping that designation in favor of the A-Spec packages (as seen at the following link).

http://edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/100691/page009.html

Here are the changes listed by item:

Chassis/Suspension Modifications

Prototype sport suspension with track tuned shocks and springs
Modulo sport exhaust
Brembo prototype front brakes
18-inch wheels
Yokohama 235/40 ZR tires

Exterior Modifications

Prototype front bumper
Prototype deck lid spoiler
Side and rear valances
Front side markers with white lenses
Fog lights
A-SPEC badging

Interior Modifications

Momo steering wheel
Prototype Recaro front seats
NSX-R aluminum sport shift knob
Prototype interior trim finish
Sport floor mats

As for sales, the TSX sold another 1,758 units in October, bringing the total to 15,336 (April through October. It's roughly as popular as the RSX.

http://hondanews.com/Forms/corp/*ws4d-db-query-Show.ws4d?*ws4d-db- -query-Show***005662***-wieck_media***-***corp(directory)***.ws4d- ?corp/results(r)_text.html

theo2709

Of course the RSX sales numbers will start to have less and less importance as they scale back production.

jchan2

debate whether to badge the car a Honda Prelude instead.

crazybabydoc

Why put all that effort into sharpening the road handling skills/appearance for this car and do nothing about the anemic engine?! What idiot would pay $3-4K to "rice up" a TSX?

varmint

Some sporty cars earn their reputations and fun factor through acceleration (Mustang). Others do it with handling (Miata). I think the TSX leans toward the handling side of the spectrum.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but, if you want power... buy a TL or a turbo-charger.

crazybabydoc

I'm sure many people will buy the TSX b/c it handles well for a FWD. But if you bump the price up 3-5K . . . you get in the range of TL, G35, 3-series, A4, etc. Cars that invariably handle better AND possess better hp (going through the rear wheels no less . . . except for the TL of course).

sphinx99

240hp, 8k RPM, no stereo, no AC, no sound deadening.

varmint

Crazy - The stock TSX already handles and brakes better than the base TL. The A-Spec TSX ought to embarass it. And I'd wait to see some comparos before I award a $30-32K A4 and G35 victories in the handling department.

Sphinx - I doubt we'll ever see another Type R in the Acura line. As much as Acura tries to project a sporty image, they also want luxury, refinement, and creature comforts to be part of the package. Type R vehicles don't fit.

The Honda line might be a different story.

jchan2

the RSX should really be badged the Honda Prelude.

crazybabydoc

(Crazy - The stock TSX already handles and brakes better than the base TL. The A-Spec TSX ought to embarass it. And I'd wait to see some comparos before I award a $30-32K A4 and G35 victories in the handling department.)

I would love a TSX with TL hp but I'm not sure I would pay a TL price. Now I would certainly pay a TL-price for a TL with TSX handling. I think Honda/Acura makes wonderful automobiles but the TSX and TL exemplify typical "good enough" mindset at Honda/Acura.

varmint

Crazy - The car with TSX handling and TL power is the G35. But when equipped with the same content, it costs just as much as the TL and still has a cheap interior.

It falls back to the adage... "Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?" The more you add to the car, the more it costs. If you don't want to pay the price, something else has to be deleted. The TSX and TL exemplify balance in that regard. Which does mean "good enough" in some areas, but the cars don't lack for much, either.

varmint

IMHO, the TSX would benefit more from less weight, than more power. In other threads (and probably this one, too), I've mentioned that the TSX would make a better platform for building a sport coupe than the RSX. The coupe would be lighter and have a shorter wheelbase. I found one racer who agrees that the TSX platform is the way to go.

http://asia.vtec.net/article/Spoon2/index.html

The car in that article just took first in it's class in a 25 hour endurance race.

In all fairness, this is racing, not just building sporty cars. What works on the track does not necessarily translate to the road.

crazybabydoc

. . . now that's a point we can agree upon. Granted, I would settle for the same weight on a hybrid TSX with AWD.