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Comments
Fair = $3600.00
Good = $4410.00
Excellent = $4900.00
Dealer is offering $4500.00. Vehicle is in good overall shape but has 20% tread left on tires and needs some minor repairs.
2008 Silverado Crew Cab LT1
4x4
Tow Package
5.3L V-8
Auto climate control
remote start
rear defroster
Z71 package
Out the door price = $23000
Trading in a vehicle that, according to the auction books I can find, is worth $4000 less than what I owe.
Test driving a similar vehicle now, they are bringing on the one that we are dealing on. Looking for the 'gotcha' in this deal. I know that it is verbal at this point but re-iterated, a couple of times, that this is $23000 out the door. The sales manager repeated, "$23000 out the door including doc fee".
Where's my gotcha? Or is this going to be a bait and switch? (yes, I'm a little cynical when it comes to auto dealers)
I looked at their inventory and they have two other LT1s that would work for me. Different colors but they would still work for me.
I'm looking at a new '08 Silverado Texas Edition with the LT2 Package.
The sticker says $ 31,720. They are telling me the invoice is $29,715.
They are offering the truck at $23,791 after the 5k rebate and some discount. It looks like they are coming off the msrp around 3k, plus the 5k rebate. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
NB
A quick look on kbb.com for a used 07 like the 08 you are looking at would probably show a trade in value of 20000 for a 36000 msrp vehicle and many dealers not wanting to trade for that even.
Scepticism is always warranted but the fact the guy dropped his pants so fast for 13000 off may show how bad the market is in your area and in general. Shop your deal around for more off msrp with the vehicle locator on the chev website, leave your cell #. 13000 off is good, but not giving the vehicle away. (they've generally sold frequently for 10000 off in august for years, and that was before this year's train wreck)
Good luck
--jjf
Stickers for $35855. Ya, this really bugs me. The manager didn't take long to make his decision and he is bringing in a vehicle. Doesn't make sense. Tomorrow outta be interesting.
I looked at their inventory and they have two other LT1s that would work for me. Different colors but they would still work for me.
I don't want to start an arguement, but I think YOU should give more realistic advice when pricing a Silverado. Even in the current market, there is no way THE DEALERS are going to let these trucks go for $13k off msrp. Only way you'll see inclusive discounts like that is if GM keeps increasing the incentives (i.e. - larger rebates). The vehicle's price (at least the numbers the public are privy too) remains the same, but w/o a factory subsidy, the dealer does not have enough in his vehicle to let it go that far below invoice. Even if you sub out the ad fee, trunk money (currrently $440), and leave him zero holdback, you're at maybe $8500 "net" off list.
Trust me, I agree that they should be more aggressive and for those in the market who want to grind will probably find a dealer to knock $10k off, but $13k off is not happening and I don't think it's wise to advise as such.
And as for all your "trade in value" opinions, they're simply a guideline and are never totally accurate. Trade values are determined by current auction prices, which are not the same as trade in values you see on kbb. Most dealers will simply offer the ACV (actual cash value) which typically represents what a vehicle can be purchased for at auction. Now, with some negotiating skills, a consumer can have them bump their offer, but it has to be a sought after trade, or something they feel they can make at least $500-$1000 on the resale.
Now, if you want a Dodge Ram, sure, $13k off can be had all day, but there's also $9k in rebate money!!
Invoice values and advertised rebates and holdback frequenty don't reflect dealer cost. (especiallly on trucks) Frequent hidden cash and regional promotions etc, especially in august on slow moving vehicles.
I don't price the trucks, the dealers do. Nor do I price drywall work, bricklaying, painting or anything else. Technically everyone's cost may be the same but that doesn't keep a few from sometimes underbidding the other significantly just to get the business to keep the lights on and employees paid during a bad month. Obviously putting enough bid requests out may smoke a few of these individuals out every month or quarter. Obviously suppliers selling at this price all the time will be out of business, but saying the price "can't" happen is silly.
True cost is unknown. Getting 10-30 bids end of month from (actually suppliers of many things ) will smoke out the one out of 10 or so who are having a difficult month and may reveal 3 -4 or so eager ones really agressively underbidding one another to sell the car for a little profit or actual substantial loss just to rack up a sale. What it actually represents you won't know except it is the lowest price you could get within 100-200 miles which is all that counts.
That 12 k can be had off a (inflated msrp) 39000 Ram all day (usually from feburary on) is old news for at least 5 years and no deal when the truck will trade in for 20000 (probably less) in 12 months if that. 13k off a silverado may be good stuff, 14k off a ram mediocre.
Obviously trade in values are "average values". Varying by perhaps +-1500 or more around the average value. Many of these values have plummeted for trucks below published numbers recently because of the massive number of trade ins. Techinically a dealer with a substantial used lot should pay more than auction value, depending on their inventory, as they will sell it themselves. How effective you are in getting the maximum a dealer will let go of varies by the individual. Few know how to buy cars much less get maximum value for their trade. Technically mimimum difference owed to the dealer.
Happy Huntin
--jjf
If that $29540 is before the $5G rebate, that's a good deal.
I agree with you about the inflated MSRP's and even Invoices for that matter...
People get "invoice" and "cost" confused, and you know as well as I do that those two are certainly not the same, and as to how much they differ, the public will never know. The only thing that knowing invoice does is help the consumer compare prices from dealer X to dealer Y. The owner of the dealership and maybe the GM are probably the only two people (other than those at the factory) who know the true cost, as it involves much more than just how much they "paid" for the vehicle. Salaries, comissions, overhead, etc... they're all part of the "total" cost and these are quite frankly, none of our business. I can say that as a consumer and as a former automotive employee.
Sure, as a consmer, you can offer whatever you want or submit multiple bids, and yes, you may find one dealer that will unleash one for less than all the numbers that can be tallied, but when $8500 - $9000 is a rock bottom deal based on the numbers, all I'm saying is that no dealer (without help from the factory) will quote someone $13k off. That was my original point, at $8500 off (net), that's taking everything on the table (holdback, trunk money, etc). With that in mind, yes we still don't know the true cost, but a dealer is not gonna' be stupid enough to come up with another $4500 of money that the general public knows nothing about, that may or may not be there. What you'll mainly get on internet quotes are Invoice + Rebates. Some will be less and some will be more, and then negotiations can start, but at invoice, there's maybe $1500 tops on the table - at least what the fleet/internet manager knows. The GM won't tell him his true cost either.
If I could get $13k off a Silverado, I would buy one tomorrow - no joke! Like I said before, with a current rebate of $5k, you're still hard pressed to get $10k off.
Again, you brought up some good points in your last post, but realistically, I just didn't think it was advantageous to get prospective buyer's hopes up on an unreal discount.
The best GM is ever going to give anyone is GMS price plus rebates. That's all the dealers are allowed to give! GM controls this, not the dealer. So you guys need to find out the GMS price, and that will be the dealers bottom line. GMS tends to be around 10% off.
Good luck
jjf
Guys going in this weekend to buy a GMC sierra SLT 4x4 with preferred package, 20" wheels. MSRP is $38,810. Worked down to a price of $33,650 out the door 0% for 72 months without any money down or trade-in. What do you guys think?
Yep, if you truly have 3000 ttl (not big dealer doc fees included) (california?) pushing 14000+ off msrp you're definitely in good deal territory. Check out the kbb.com trade in used 07 value of a truck equipped like yours (38000msrp). If its around 20000, 24000 or so is what you want to be paying for an new 08. If more than 20k, better your deal is still.
Good luck
--jjf
Considering that TT&L is about $3000, I am getting the deal for roughly $8200 off MSRP and the 0% financing for 72 mos. I f thats average, what would you consider a great deal as I would hold off till Sept. to get a better one. Any sugestions or recomendations will be greatly appreciated. Also any GMC dealerships in the country who would give me a better deal would be greatly appreciated, as I am willing to fly to a city to get the best deal. Thanks!!
Thanks for those that replied to my question on the 08 Silverado. The gotcha was he was not including the loan on the trade. So from that perspective the deal stunk worse than a skunk laying on the side of the road. I told him that I was not going to owe $34k on a truck that auctions for about $22k.
I found a 2003 Chevy 2500HD LT that is in (apparently) good shape. Runs great and drives like a truck.
Anybody got any gotcha's I should look for? Truck is from a shade tree dealer who wants $15k and has maint. records from previous (original) owner.
Crew cab, Duramax, Allison, new rear brakes, 70% rubber left on set of Michelins, 108k miles, spray on liner, chip (don't know what kind).
Nice to meet you folks... I've read several posts... I'm a noob in the world of diesels, but have been towing with a '90 GMC Sierra 1500 350ci for years. (New in '91).
So... looking forward to getting to know some of you.
Tell me what you think.... or not... :P
To be honest, that was the impetus that made me buy my present truck.If the figures add up- its a good buy.
I have found a few that would work for me. Its just a matter of cutting through the b.s. and biting the bullet.
Ext. Cab Standard Box LT1 4x4 Drive for about four months now.
I sent out multiple quote request out three months ago and got a price range of $24K-26K. Around the same time a friend of mine purchased one for $24K.
Now, with the “employee pricing” around I decided to send out quote request again. Surprise, surprise, the price range was once again $24k-$26k.
After looking around at other post, it seems to me that the focus is on how many rebates, cash back, and dealer incentives one received and not the out the door price. This seems to me a poor way to shop around for a vehicle.
I could care less about which, how many, and the names given to dealer incentives I receive, bottom line for me is price. Anyone else shop that way?
A 31000 08 trailblazer has a 12000 trade in value in its 07 version (kbb.com). The other books put it 5000 higher but the pie in the sky starting asking prices for most used ones around here are about edmunds $17000 trade in. The kbb value is probably closer to right. Without about $15000 off the TB is a joke.
Good luck
--jjf
I got an email from a salesmanager Thursday in regards to the pricing (remember the dealer that tried to snake me with the higher price when "Loyalty Money" was the new hook back in April?
Asked me to check out the Employee price now on their Website. Guess what- they played with their prices so much it was actually higher now than back in March. And dirty me, I let them know one of their trucks was priced wrong. Didn't say exactly which one. Made them audit their site.They figured it out eventually and let me know its "fixed"
Still 2 grand too high. I found one 2 grand cheaper down the street. Delivery on Monday.
Think I'll wait till the end of the year.
One of the main reasons you are not seeing a huge difference in your quotes is because even w/o the "employee pricing", dealers were already dipping into their holdbacks and eating those regional ad fee to be competitive when they're sending you those e-mail quotes.
From a cost perspective, on paper, they are selling you the vehicle for "cost", however, and I've mentioned this before, but only Chevy and the owner of each individual dealership knows his true cost. His cost involves so much more than just the price he paid for his vehicle (overhead, sales comissions, etc.). These figures are really none of the customer's business, but if a dealer can hit his numbers based on profit from other vehicles, and/or volume and misc bonus', he may sell you the vehicle for even less, but those are the deals that need to be timed just right, and the right person in the dealership needs to be dealt with to get these rock-bottom prices. Not all dealer's are equal and not all of their pay plans are the same, which is why one guy will do what it takes and one guy will tell you that he's got no more room.
The spread between invoice and msrp on vehicles these days is a joke, but this is how the manufacturers' have responded to having their "invoices" splattered all over the internet.
The bottom line: GM employee pricing is a great deal, but like anything else, if supply continues to exceed demand, you will see more incentives from the manufacturer's side because the dealer is (in most cases) tapped out on what he actually was billed for the vehicle.
Does GM actually control the minimum sales price of a unit?
I would think a new 07 would sell for a few thousand less than a new 08.
What happens to the leftover 07's:
Fodder for a drunken sailor on shore leave?
Owner's nephews "permanent loaner"?
Funny numbers on a trade deal?
Permanent back lot parking to save face?
What's your bet on Sept 3 prices on 08?
Any Central/East Coast Florida dealers you can recommend?
Is there more "fat" in a LTZ than a WT, (there must be, reason says, at least at the factory level)?
Thanks, Skip
I care little how the dealers were coming up with those numbers 3 months ago, especially since “These figures are really none of the customer's business”, all I care about is price out the door.
Compare all the dealer incentives you want, call them what you want, argue between each other about which and how many you get. I don’t care if you get 5 “dealer incentives” and I “only” get one, bottom line for me is price.
2008 Silverado 1500 2wd ext cab LT1 w/ Ca pkg and 3.73 rear axle.
MSRP: $29,210.00
Invoice: $27,203.18
Emp Price: $26,071.98 (invoice less holdback and national ad fee)
Selling Price: $25,295.91
Doc Fee: $55.00
Tax: $1,960.43
Gov't Fees: $405.75
Rebate: $5,000
OTD: $22,717.09
Net discount: $8,914.09
The selling price was based on an additional $440 dealer cash (my vehicle qualified), then negotiated off the 2nd ad fee of $282.65 (the regional).
Happy to be back in a Chevy!
Regardless of what a dealer's true cost is, you and I will never know, as it entails a lot more than just what the dealer cut a check to the manufacturer for. However, I have seen many factory invoices in my day and when they remit the check to any given factory, in this case, GMAC, they do pay the total invoice, which includes the holdback and advertisng fees.
Now, when the manufacturer "incents" the vehicle, i.e. rebates, bonus cash, dealer cash, what have you... pricing will get better. With employee pricing, the manufacturer has, once again, incented the deals by giving every customer invoice minus holback and national ad fee. But, the reason why your quotes are still the same is because the rebates have not increased, and the fact that dealers dip into their HB's all the time, especially in a competitive market, your selling prices would have been roughly the same 3 months ago to present day.
If on Sept.3, GM raises the rebate to say, $6000, then your deal would get sweeter by $1000 (assuming $5k currently).
Giving someone invoice less the holdnback and ad fee is certainly not a gimmick. The only other way to get more money out of that is to utilize any marketing support (currently $440 on models before a certain build date) and to have the dealer relinquish his regional ad fee (seperate from the national fee that GM already waived in the emp price).
Or, you would need to find a dealer who can sell the vehicle for a loss and make up for it somehow, i.e. volume bonus, finance credit, etc...
I basically got a net $9k discount on my Silverado (see above post), and I'm very happy with that.
Good luck with your search.
Sorry to sound curt. I hate dealing with car salesmen (persons). Especially with the kind of emails I’ve had in the past few days from them. You just can’t tell them “No Thanks” without some of them responding with some very insulting comments.
I was never like that - if I could do something I would, if there was no chance of accomodating someones offer, as unrealistic as it may have been, I'd politely tell them I couldn't and wish them luck in their search, but would never be rude or insulting. Afterall, I didn't makle any money if I didn't move some iron.
I hope you find a truck soon. If you're in Socal, I've got the right dealer for you.
So sure, you can throw out the “most situations” tag and cover your angle, but dealers are still spewing the same ole shtick. News reports are in that sales are still abysmal (GM reported that sales tumbled 20% from year-ago levels), but they did get quite a few suckers in the door with the “employee pricing” gimmick.
(In fact, August turned out to be GM's best month this year. The company sold 307,285 vehicles thanks to a popular "employee pricing" incentive program which allowed any buyer to get a vehicle for the same cost as a GM employee. That offer, in place for the last third of the month, has been extended into September.)
These same prices could have been had months ago.
Auto sales plunge
If as you say the same pricing could've been gotten months ago I fail to see why you haven't bought a truck. You expect a better price or are you just a stroker? I seriously doubt you can get a better price than what's being offered with employee pricing and an additional $5K off.
Dang it I've got to stop feeding the trolls.
MSRP 36255
Employee Pricing and rebates 9072.00
Additional GM Rebate I received through the mail 1500.00
Less Trade in $19500.00
7766.21 OTD