Mazda3 (5-door) v. Mazda6 Hatch v. Mazda6 Wagon...

revka

Here is the new place to discuss the Mazda3 5-door vs. the Mazda6 hatchback. Since the subject has come up in other discussions here, I thought it might make for a new topic of discussion. Thanks for your participation!

Revka
Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons

revka

if you know anyone that would be interested in discussing this subject, please send them here. Here's the url to this discussion that you can copy/paste:

/direct/view/.ef213a8

Thanks!

Revka
Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons

johnclineii

I think the topic should include discussion of the Mazda6 wagon. The 6 hatchback will be far sportier and more expensive than the 3 hatch. The 6 wagon will be the one (of the two) that will be compared by most to the Mazda3.

revka

Hi johnclineii- Well, what would you think of a separate "Mazda6 Hatchback or Mazda6 Wagon" discussion? I had thought about combining those two into one discussion.

It seems the Mazda3 5-door might be a stretch from the Mazda6 wagon, imo. Or have you, or others here, seriously considered the Mazda3 5-door vs Mazda6 wagon? ;-)

Revka
Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons

johnclineii

I have considered the 6 wagon vs. the 3 Hatch.

The 6 hatch will almost certainly cost much more than the 6 wagon. It also will have many more standard features, if it is marketed at all as it is in Europe and the rest of the world.

The 6 hatch is to be marketed as an upscale, sporty vehicle. The wagon will be far more utilitarian. Everything I have read indicates this will be the case in North America as well.

The 6 wagon will be far more competitively priced vs. the 3 Hatch. There will be people shopping both. Few, if any, will cross shop the 6 hatch and the 3 hatch.

The word hatch, when used to apply to the Mazda3, is merely attempting not to use the dreaded, downscale wagon word.

dinu01

I agree w/Revka.

The 6wagon will be too large to compare it to a 3wagon.

Nice job on starting this topic though.

Dinu

johnclineii

So dinu, are YOU cross shopping the 6 hatch with the 3 hatch (the wagon that dare not speak its name?)

dinu01

The 6HB will be more than the 6sedan and if I can get a top of the line 3sedan or 3HB I'd rather have that than a 6i without all the goodies.

Dinu

according2me

new Mazda hatches/wagons, with utility and price as a big factor.

mazda6s

I am cross shopping the 3 hatch and the 6 hatch.

But then again I never claimed to be normal.

qbrozen

if i find myself at the mazda dealership when all 3 are available, then i'd be trying out all 3.

pzev

What is the difference in carrying capacity between the three? Excluding that I would go with the Mazda3. Probably slightly better fuel mileage, Japanese build quality, and the body kit looks pretty good on it as well.

If someone wants a V6 though then the Mazda3 obviously would be out. Also the Mazda6 wagon may look better than the Mazda3. The Mazda6 hatchback looks almost like the sedan and that is a very good looking car so no problem in the looks department there.

After this whole rust thing though I'm starting to think the built in Japan thing might be worth something afterall. Also overall build quality is suppose to be noticeably better on Japanese built versions compared to NA built versions. Also the engines in the Mazda3 are built in Japan while the 4-cyl in the NA Mazda6 is built in Mexico. Possibility for quality control problems? This rust thing is making me paranoid.

knhill

I'll be looking at all thee as well. The 3 looks to be more fun, the 6 looks to be more practical. Those nasty boy-racer ground effects that Mazda is forcing on US customers have cooled my enthusiasm for the 3. The crash test ratings and this new rust issue have cooled my enthusiasm for the 6. Mazda's inistence on packaging sunroof's with almost any other option has cooled my enthusiasm on Mazda altogether. However, the Miata in my garage stokes that enthusiasm back up every day.

I have a friend at work who has a 6 sedan. It seems like quite a leap forward from another friend's 626. However, the Fordies may have begun to plague him - he is having check-engine-light trouble.

As for built in Japan vs. built in the US, my dad's 2003 Accord was built in Ohio is is put together Really Well. I'll probably also be cross shopping the Accord sedan (bring back the wangon!) as well as the Prius.

pappy55

Everything on these cars for the NA market is speculation from what I can tell. My dealer is tight-lipped on the 3 (trying to push me into a Pro5 - not a bad option as their prices keep dropping). They know zilch about the 6 hatch/wagon other than a picture in the 2004 6 brochure that says "Early 2004". I'd love to have the 6 hatch, but I am guessing that it's quirky option packages may push it out of my price range for a daily commuter. The 3 will probably have features for less $$ with just as much interior space as the 6 hatch(both are midsize?). The 3 will probably have more cu ft in the cargo area than the 6 hatch from the looks of it. The 6 wagon is definitely hot, but I'm looking for a hatch.

I'll just have to wait and see these in person and the available option pkgs. It's gotta be cheap too ;-)

If my '91 Merc Capri turbo won't make it till then, still considering Focus ZX5, Protege 5, Elantra GT hatch...

bluong1

The 3 will probably have more cu ft in the cargo area than the 6 hatch from the looks of it.

That's not true: cargo capacity rear backseat up/down (litres):

Mazda3 Hatch: 300/635
Mazda6 Hatch: 492/1661
Mazda6 Wagon: 505/1712

Bruno

johnclineii

And those figures, as true as they are, will seem to understate the issue. The Mazda3 is NOT midsize. It is a compact. Just very slightly larger than the Protege. The hatch may or may not be larger than the Protege5, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were smaller...

conflicted

Actually, the Mazda3 hatch is listed on the Canadian site as having 484.2L in the cargo area (rear seats up).

This would make it a larger cargo area than the Matrix has.

In outside volume, the Mazda3 hatch is larger than the Pro5 and similar in total volume to the Aerio, Impreza and Matrix, which have total cargo volumes between 1500 L and 1700 L. So the Mazda3 really should have a total cargo volume similar to those (rear seats down).

So those Euro spec numbers (300L/635L) are incredibly low. They must be using a different measurement methodology than we use in NA.

autohound1

It doesn't seem possible that the 6 wagon is only slightly larger than the 6 hatchback both w/ seats up & down. I would expect the wagon to show a more significant capacity than the hatch. Does anyone know how they conduct the measurements?

conflicted

Actually, the Mazda3 hatch is listed on the Canadian site as having 484.2L in the cargo area (rear seats up).

This would make it a larger cargo area than the Matrix has.

In outside volume, the Mazda3 hatch is larger than the Pro5 and similar in total volume to the Aerio, Impreza and Matrix, which have total cargo volumes between 1500 L and 1700 L. So the Mazda3 really should have a total cargo volume similar to those (rear seats down).

So those Euro spec numbers (300L/635L) are incredibly low. They must be using a different measurement methodology than we use in NA.

mazda6s

For those of us that are metrically-challenged, here are bluong's figures in Cu.Ft.:
Mazda3 Hatch: 10.6/22.4
Mazda6 Hatch: 17.4/58.7
Mazda6 Wagon: 17.8/60.5

But like somebody pointed out, these are the Euro measurements and may not be the same as how we do it on our side of the ocean. They don't look right to me and I will wait for the official North American measurements.

creakid1

"It doesn't seem possible that the 6 wagon is only slightly larger than the 6 hatchback both w/ seats up & down. I would expect the wagon to show a more significant capacity than the hatch. Does anyone know how they conduct the measurements?"

The 3 hatch's rear deck is raised for a flatter cargo floor when seats are folded. & there's another layer of secret compartment underneath. The sedan doesn't & has a lower trunk floor.

Maybe the 6 hatch & wagon got a similar difference.

mazdafun

Those euro specs look like they're only to the tops of the rear seat's back (or up to the bottom of the modesty cover), which is the way it should be rated.

However, in NA, most mfrs rate cargo volume up to the roof. Mazda played honestly to begin with on the P5's rating and got beat about the head in the market 'cause almost everyone rates cargo as stuffed up to the headliner. They switched to this method later to provide more comparable measurements.

boxfan

I remember seeing a review or comparo (I can't remember what web site it was on) that said the Impreza wagon (WRX wagon/Outback Sport) had twice the cargo volume that the P5 had. That's absurd. Obviously they were looking at measurements taken different ways and didn't think about the numbers for a second.

If you measure up to the level of the back seat, then it would make sense that the 6 hatchback and wagon would have similar numbers. Measuring up to the roof would be different.

johncline:"The 6 hatch will almost certainly cost much more than the 6 wagon. It also will have many more standard features, if it is marketed at all as it is in Europe and the rest of the world." That may be true, but from audi8q's post on the 6 board, the wagon will be only available as a V6, whereas the hatch will be 50% 4-cyl, so the cheapest option might be a 4-cyl hatch.

The hatchback should be lighter, so the 4-cyl hatch will give you better mileage with similar performance as the 6-cyl wagon. At least with the stickshift. And I think MOST of the time, the hatch will be just as utilitarian as a wagon would be. I guess on a long trip, with people in the back seat and a huge box or a lot of luggage, you'd need the wagon.

mazda6s

I see they are not offering SAB/SAC on the Mazda3 in Canada. If that happens in the US I will dropping the Mazda3 from my short list. I'll just wait til they get the rust problem fixed on the Mazda6.

bluong1

should be offered in US as an package. Please see the info we know so far here:

http://groups.msn.com/BrunoLuong/ustrimsandprices.msnw

mazda6s

Yeah, I guess the preliminary specs dor Canada didn't list the SAB/SAC so it's no surprize.

OK, the Mazda3 stays on my list for now. Do you think the BP5 is still as pictured in your photo for the US? I'm thinking Strato Blue with BP5 interior. Is Strato Blue 27E as you listed or 25E as it shows at:
http://www.mazda.de/drive/mazda3/mazda3_farben.asp?modelname=2.0l- - +Sport+To

pzev

I think the MazdaUSA site mentions side curtains being offered. Also as mentioned preliminary specs say it will be offered in a package with ABS.

Canada must have a different system but Mazda not offering side air bags on the Mazda3 in the USA is total suicide. Even the Hyundai Accent, which starts at $9999, has standard side air bags.

pzev

Wait a second. I thought the white on the Mazda3 was the same thing as Pure White on the Protege. The white on that page says A4D. The Mazda Protege white is A3D and the Mazda6 white is A2N. So this is a completely new white?

bluong1

Yes, Strato Blue code is 25E, I wrongly type it in my page. Thanks for pointing it out. I think the BP5 showed is correct. For US market, the Strato Blue should come with BP5.

bluong1

Color wise, A4D and A3D are very similar (You can hardly tell the difference by looking at them). The Mazda6 white however is different.

pzev

Yeah I figured they would be pretty close to each other. Maybe I'm imagining things, but I always thought the Protege white looked a little better than the Mazda6 white.

regfootball

just me, but i thought i saw something that said there was no 4 cyl. hatch, or was it no 4 cyl wagon. i know they said you will be able to get a 6 cyl./5 sp wagon.

pzev

I think it is the wagon that is only getting the 6-cyl.

regfootball

BUT AT LEAST THE STICK, TOO.

AND HOPEFULLY NO RUST.

pappy55

why doesn't Mazda import these from Japan for the US market? Why? So I could get a hatch NOW!!! And no rust issue. Plus, if they don't do well, save money in plant tooling costs at Flat Rock.

Maybe they can import one for me. 23Z please.

just my .02

wongpres

"why doesn't Mazda import these from Japan for the US market? Why?"

3 reasons:

1. Hofu plant II (where the Atenza/Mazda6 is produced) is currently overcapacity.
2. Hofu II doesn't build V6 Mazda6's (the V6 is exclusive to N. America)
3. Importing Mazda6's from Japan while Flat Rock still has capacity completely undermines the Flat Rock plant.

regfootball

then why couldn't they INTRODUCE the car with the hatch and wagon when it came out?

mazda6s

Hello, anybody here? I can't be the only person considering the Mazda3 5-door vs. Mazda6 hatchback.

dinu01

The price difference will be significant.

Dinu

mazda6s

Yeah, you're right on that. I can probably get a loaded 3s 5D for the same price or less than that of a stripped 6i HB. And, I would probably have to wait about 3 months longer for the 6i HB. And, due to the better option packaging on the Mazda3 (at least in the US) I can probably find what I want on a dealer's lot instead of ordering.

So, can you predict which one I'll be getting?

dinu01

Yes, no?

Dinu

mazda6s

Yes Mazda3 5-door MT. I guess they call the 5-door the "Sport" model north of the border?

dinu01

I'm still torn - 3sedan GS w/Pwr+Sport or 3sedan GT w/GFX.

I guess I'll take a chill pill and relax: I check mazda.ca daily to see when the configurator comes online

Dinu

mazda6s

Repeat after me - GT, GT, GT ...

gromit45

>Hello, anybody here? I can't be the only person >considering the Mazda3 5-door vs. Mazda6 hatchback.

well, i was considering the 6 hb, but i was disappointed when they didn't release it in the U.S. in MY2003. when i heard about and saw the 3 hb and pretty much stopped thinking about the 6 hb. coming from an integra, i prefer a small, nimble car anyway. and less expensive to boot.

mazda6s

Yeah, what you said. I might still wait for the MZ6 hatch, but probably not.

dinu01

Talked to my cousin last nite: he also said that for $30/mth more I should get the GT, so now I polled pretty much everyone I know and they all said GT. Now the difference in insurance will be interesting to see.

Dinu

mazda6s

Ah, but that's CA$30/month, so it's a bargain. Not much more than a couple of trips to Starbucks!

dinu01

That's exactly what he said: "when we go out, have two/three less drinks per month" and that'll be all Not that I drink more than one beer/rum+coke/etc if I go out...

It really is a bargain, you're right. Now I'm really curious at how the seats are: material type, quality, etc... I'm not too fond on the blue as you know but the red is pretty good. Guess I'll have to get the Velocity Red one then instead of Winning Blue or Titanium. They're all nice colours anyway

Dinu

mazda6s

I hope the seat material quality is better on the Mazda3 than on the Mazda6. Since it's being built in Japan for worldwide sales (or is it?), I would expect the overall quality to be excellent.

Are they planning on building the Mazda3 anywhere else?

dinu01

all in Japan, which is great!

Dinu