2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

alan_s

Forget about those actuarial estimated values. The real value is determined by supply and demand. People are waiting weeks and months for an Avalon, Toyota has admitted that they underestimated demand and are trying to ramp up production.
All fleet deliveries of Avalons have been deferred until February '06 so they can satisfy retail demand first and not too many dealers are dealing on prices.
If you really wanted one right now, wouldn't you pay just slightly less than the cost of a new one to get an almost new used one?
The limited supply ensures that the Avalon will retain it's value for some time to come.
When they are as ubiquitous as Camrys, then that will be another story...

As for SUV retaining their values - forget about that. The KBB and other projected valuations are based upon historical data, not the situation as it is now.
The gas scare has caused a slump in the sales of ALL SUV's including the Highlander and Pilot and the new car lots are flooded with them and are being offered at invoice from the outset. What do you think that is doing to resale values?

fin

Just for fun... I called around Atlanta looking for a used '05 Avalon. I found a live dinosaur, the formula for Coca Cola.... and a map to the remains of Jimmy Hoffa. But no used '05 Avalons... Hmmmmm....does this tell us anything about the resale value?

alan_s

They had a "used" Blizzard Pearl Limited at Toyota of Roswell about a month ago with only a couple of thousand miles on it. It was priced at new MSRP. It sat there for a couple of weeks but it sold. I always wondered why such a new one would be on the used car lot so soon.
They also had a demo XLS (with door dings in it :sick: ) at MSRP too.

retired7

I think Toyota owns us an explaination on what caused the "hole" in the Limited's new engine block (see #6197). It was on my mind as I drove the lonely Interstate 70 in eastern Utah into Colorado! Toyota should have some kind of failure analysis done by now..Are you there TOYOTA??

lnt

There is a black Avalon(Limited) at Fowler Toyota in Dallas for $37,995!! It is an 05 with 800 miles on it. That is $4,000 more than I paid for mine in March. I think it has the navigation system on it though. Anyway, the reason I'm posting is to see if anyone has seen the regular kind of spoiler on the avalons - not the lip kind that the touring model has on it. The one on this used Avalon at Fowler has a spoiler that looks like the ones that come on camrys or the previous generation Avalon. I keep looking at that car and drooling because I really wanted a black one when I bought mine. I haven't seen but one other cassis pearl. I am wondering if everyone thinks they are ugly or something! I would see if they would trade with me, but with all the problems people seem to be having, I would be afraid it was traded in because it was a lemon and I've had NO problems with mine - except the loose fog lights and uneven tail pipes.

lnt

I think your pictures are awesome!! I wish I would have had some pictures like that to compare car colors before I bought mine.

dandl

I have seen the rear aerodynamic spoiler offered as an accessory on Avalons sold in the gulf state regions. It seemed a little "over the top" for our car. We opted for the rear lip spoiler on our Blizzard Pearl Limited as this one seemed a little more classic in our humble opinion. However, having looked at the aerodynamic one again on a Florida dealers site, I bet it looks really good on a black Avalon as this color car looks more sporty to me.
Laura

n0v8or

lenp . . . I've also noticed my '05 engine is noisy, particularly so during the first few minutes after a cold start. Even when hot, there are running noises I've not heard with other Japanese engines. My '94 Maxima engine is as quiet as a church mouse compared to the Avalon. However, I would not equate the noise to a Diesel. I can hear a Diesel idling 100 feet away. Not so with the Avalon.

For now, I've convinced myself that this clatter is a consequence of the three timing chains, but I have no scientific basis for that theory. The Maxima V6 has a timing belt. I would much rather have timing chains than belts, and I can live with the noise.

I suggest you compare your engine noise to other new Avalons.

captain2

Agreed, Supply and demand will generally set a price for about everything - especially cars. For anybody that looks at something called trade-in value, remember that the only thing a dealer likes more than a late model trade-in is whatever you might spend in his service department. Typical used car margins are 25% or more - well above what the dealer will make selling the cars new. So, of course, a mid 20 trade-in value is possible - how else can the dealer make a 6 or 8 grand profit reselling it for the 32 grand or so it is actually worth! For that post that really wants to trade his Av in on a Buick - be prepared to lose on both ends. OR y list it in the newspaper and recover most of the the Av's true value and then, go negotiate a cash price for that Buick. In Houston, new Ltds. are beginning to appear in dealer inventories but are almost all stickered right at $40k, including NAV and a couple of grand worth of unnecessary distributor adds - and they are certainly not having any trouble moving them! A used or demo Av Ltd. with a few thousand miles on it, warranty, of course, - for $32k would last maybe 15 minutes...

martyi45

Please post your experiance driving/owning this car and the price (lease) in your area.

pat

Hi martyi45, welcome.

You are asking for information that has already been posted in this discussion and also in our Toyota Avalon: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion. You can learn a whole lot by looking through the previous posts in both of these topics. You can just page through the posts or use the Search This Discussion feature on the page bar, whatever suits you the best.

Then if you have more specific questions you can post them in whichever place is more appropriate - that way it will be easier for folks to jump in and help you.

Good luck!

alan_s

You are right. The dealers want to make an absolute killing on used cars. They offered me only $13,500 :mad: (yeah right!) for my 2002 Avalon, loaded to the hilt, 25,000 miles in brand new condition. I was in the auto business over 20 years ago, and they called this "stealing the trade.". They had 2000 and 2001 models on the lot with less equipment, scruffy condition, nearly 100,000 miles and priced at $22,000, and they obviously paid less than $13,500 for those! They'd probably drop that price by 2 or 3K, but they do end up making an absolute killing on the used cars. I understand they have to make a profit, but almost $10K on a used Avalon is nothing but a greed-grab.
The advantage in having a sought after vehicle like the 05/06 Avalon is that one could sell it privately for almost the new car price, not $10K less. An older Avalon is a lot harder to sell privately. They were great cars but nobody noticed.

ange

Has anyone given any thought to loosing the Smart Key? We would have to be hauled to a Toyota dealer to get another one.All this could take a fair amount of time and money.

I have, in the past, taped a spare key under the rear bumper. You can't do that with the Key. I was going to place the Key in one of the lead pouches used for film and give it a try. The thought of loosing the Key when hundreds of miles away is not a good one. Any ideas? ange1

cms1528

I don't know about your smart key but a spare "key" comes with each key fob. The little black tip on the key fob, that has the door/trunk lock button detaches and can be use as a key to unlock your car door. Its the same tip that you probably use to attach your key ring to.

Check your owners manual and it will show you how it pops out and its use. I think its suppose to unlock the door if your battery went dead.

captain2

and most folks don't seem to understand that the dealers would actually lose money if all they do is sell new cars. That fictious invoice only allows about 10% that they give all or part of away, and whatever remains in incentives, holdbacks etc. is not enough to cover commissions, support personnel, inventory interest costs, franchise costs, and what it costs to actually build and operate the place. But let's not feel sorry for them - the money is made at the used car lot and mostly in the service depts.
have a friend that owns 4 dealerships, 3 for Japanese brands, and claims to be losing hundreds of thousands selling new cars - but couldn't wait to open his new Ford dealership - wonder why.
Hope you didn't take the $13k for your 2002!

alan_s

Nope. Didn't take the 13K. Bought my '05 from another dealer. The '02 was leased so I waited a couple of months and turned it in to the dealer who offered me 13K. He was upset that I didn't buy the '05 from him and said he woulda coulda shoulda offered me "at least 16K for the '02". Play it again Sam...
I can't feel sorry for the dealers. I saw for myself the dirty tricks they play on unsuspecting consumers. I am all for making a profit, but I do believe in honesty and fair play and that a deal is when both sides win. Perhaps I really am an anachronism.

touring05

Keep in mind if you do "hide" a smart key under the car some one could get in the car just by touching the door handle. They couldnt start it though. I am pretty sure that little key you slide out can be duplicated. This will at least allow you to get in the vehicle if you do not have the key fob.

captain2

all of which gets back to your original point - don't worry about some concocted 'trade-in value' because whatever that number is, it is directly proportional to how far you are willing to bend over ! From a strictly financial standpoint, about the worst thing we can do - trade vehicles in on new models every couple of years or so, selling them yourself and negotiating 'cash' prices - much, much cheaper and a more accurate reflection on what is actually paid for any new car.

rdjsw

My window was just as bad. I did talk to the service manager and finally the regional rep. They agreed to replace the window (I think mostly because the rep. was driving an Avalon and his was not too bad). As we investigated the situation, which my dealer took very seriously, we discovered that every Avalon in stock had this distortion to some degree. I was quite surprised to hear that my complaint was their first (I purchased by car in late August of this year).
My new window is definately better but still has some distortion. Like you, I was constantly distracted by the every shifting size and shape of the cars in the mirror.
I would complain, the more that do, the better the chance of them issuing a TSB and fixing the issue.

dmorcos

I looked at a container of Bon Ami cleaning powder today and on the back on cleaning windows it said "Do not use on windshields"

Did I look at the wrong powder which had a sticky at the top saying it was fiberglass powder?????

alan_s

Just an FYI - every Toyota product I've had since 1997 has had distortion in the rear window to some degree, including my new Avy. The greater the relative angle of the glass from the driver's perspective, the more distortion you will get. The Avalon rear window angle is quite steep and curved, and with any curved glass surface you are going to get refraction.
Not sure if this will make you feel better about it or not!

paul_p

Awesome job documenting the process, n0v8or. Thank you very much for sharing this!!

- Paul

paul_p

If you opt for the gray interior, you might think it is actually blue becasue it is a gray in many shades from light to dark. Not your typical one color gray interior found on some economy cars.

- Paul

leinad

an this armor all, is good for cleaning the scuff marks off, not just putting the shine on this particular area?

thanks, jd

dmorcos

Oops,
The sticky actually said "safe for Fiberglass cleaning"

But still not to be used on windshields.

robertu

Good to hear from you, just me. My friend Old Groza sends his regards. We've just turned over 5000 on the car. It's just as fun as the first day.

ROBERTU

limiteddriver

Had my car checked today for the "valve noise when cold" problem. Tech rode with me and said it's the valve lifter adjustment being a little loose while cold and is normal. It stops after about a mile. I mistakenly though the engine had hydraulic valve lifters, but he said no. They are adjusted with shims like the ones on my '01 Miata. They too made a little noise but never gave any trouble. I watched my first Avalon oil change (put in Mobile 1) Wednesday. Easy job if you have a lift. As noted by everyone there's several o-rings to worry with and the filter element isn't very large. A spin-on would have been easier and faster.

n0v8or

Typical Dealer misinformation to placate you.

Ask this tech to read Page EG-14 of the Avalon training manual, a portion of which is reproduced directly below. Because they don't bother to read it themselves, these guys don't seem to realize Toyota makes this information available to the public.
========================
2GR-FE VALVE MECHANISM

1. General
 Each cylinder of this engine has 2 intake valves and 2 exhaust valves. Intake and exhaust efficiency is
increased due to the larger total port areas.
 This engine uses roller rocker arms with built-in needle bearings. This reduces the friction that occurs
between the cams and the areas (roller rocker arms) that push the valves down, thus improving fuel
economy.
 A hydraulic lash adjuster, which maintains a constant zero valve clearance through the use of oil pressure
and spring force, is used.
 The intake camshafts are driven by the crankshaft via the primary timing chain. The exhaust camshafts
are driven by the intake camshaft of the respective bank via the secondary timing chain.
=================================

n0v8or

At least you generated some mirth amongst the mechanics. They are probably enjoying a good laugh over how thay got another patsy to buy the shim story.

fin

More interesting reading from Toyota...for mechanics, who are sometimes the last to figure it out:

There is a new cylinder head design. Says Paul Williamsen, Curriculum Development manager, University of Toyota (Torrance, CA): "In some ways, it's kind of a throw back for us." What!! A throwback!?! Ah, but Williamsen continues, "It's the first engine we've had in America in about 20 years that does not have direct bucket-actuated valves. Instead, the valves are actuated by roller-follower rocker arms." Why the retro approach? "It allows us to have a hydraulic lash adjuster," he says. They've never had one on any vehicles in North America. It reduces maintenance. "More importantly, there's the roller bearing assembly, the roller-follower between the cam and the rocker arm. A conventional cam in a bucket lifter cylinder head is going to press down on a large flat lifter to operate the valve. That affects the grind of the cam—you have to have a very smooth shape. It's also interesting to think that this is one of the few areas of an engine that's designed to have direct metal-to-metal contact under substantial pressure. We've obviously not had any issues with that metal-to-metal contact, we can handle that through lubrication." The roller rocker allows them to have a more-aggressive cam grind, which allows the valves to open further, faster and holds them open longer.

nimimi

There is a conflict between the Owner's Manual and the repair manual for the 2006 Avalon: the owner's says rotate front to rear/rear to front and the repair manual says rotation is front to rear/rear to opposite sides of the front. Has anyone figured out which is correct?

ososlick

I had my Toyota dealer install xm receiver in my 2005 xls yesterday. The radio works fine except that I am not able to change the xm stations via steering wheel control; I have to use the round tuner knob on the radio to scroll through all of the individual stations. Does anyone know if this is normal operation or am I doing something wrong? :confuse:

06graylimited

I have same set up in my 2006 Limited. As I remember push the SAT button on front of radio (silver button) your readout on "blue screen" should say SAT 01. ( You will have SAT 02 and SAT 03, so you can have as many as 18 XM presets) Manually tune the station that you want as preset #1 then push the silver faced button #1 on radio face until it beeps then release. Follow this procedure for 2 through 6. Then if you want more presets, push SAT button again to acces SAT 02 (on blue screen) and repeat. I use SAT 01 for my six primary favorites and SAT 02 and SAT 03 for less listened to. If this DOES NOT, work reply to me. The car is not at my fingertips but this is how I remember doing it 4 weeks ago. (No help from toyota dealer by the way. "Nobody buys these XM units" ENJOY! John in KC

beeman4u

Has anyone found the solution for this. My 06 Avalon is GREAT.. across the board. Thus far, 1,100 miles, the only problem I've noticed is a squeak coming from the passenger side dashboard as well... Please let me know. I'm very HESITATE from asking the dealer to rip out my dash fearing the squeaks would be RATTLES when they put it back

beeman4u

Has anyone found the solution for this. My 06 Avalon is GREAT.. across the board. Thus far, 1,100 miles, the only problem I've noticed is a squeak coming from the passenger side dashboard as well... Please let me know. I'm very HESITATE from asking the dealer to rip out my dash fearing the squeaks would be RATTLES when they put it back

just__me

Thank you Robertu. I still read the forum. I haven't seen Groza posting for a look time, I guess us old timers are just happy with our Avalons. Say hello to him for me.

limiteddriver

Did the '04 Avalons have hydraulic lifters? Your comment is probably true so I'll talk with them again Monday. I guess I'd rather it be a leakdown problem.

allavalons

I had a squeak in the same area, I really only noticed it once it got colder. I took it to my dealer and they had a technician ride with me over a couple of bumpy roads. He heard it and said it was from body flex causing the squeak where the dash is mounted to the firewall.
The fixed it 1st time... no problems. The repair said they added insulation. Whatever that means it is quiet and rattle free. :shades:

n0v8or

I do not have Avalon training or service info for model years earlier than 2005. The ,04 and earlier literature is all available on the Toyota Tech Info site, but my suscription has expired.

I ran a search on the '04 and earlier Forum; the messages I found were not definitive relative to the valve train.

curry

My experience has always been to rotate radial tires front to back, back to front, on the same side only. I think the only confusion arises when you want to mix in the full-size spare tire into the rotation mix. I leave the spare tire in the trunk for later use when I need to put a fresh set of tires on the car. I have never wanted to mix in a tire with 0 miles on it in with 3 other tires that have some wear on them - I'd like all 4 tires to be similar in terms of wear and tread depth.

But, then again, I am an engineer by training, so we worry about things like that!!

zekeman1

You can't. Use the "round tuner knob on the radio" or use presets.
zekeman1

zekeman1

Wow - based on all of the squeaks people talk about on this board, I guess I should be grateful that I have a high frequency hearing loss - otherwise, I might be going a little crazy!!!! (Actually, my wife has perfect hearing and our LTD is quiet!
zekeman1

luvmyavalon

I had the same problem and didn't know what I was doing wrong. I called the dealer and they explained what to do. The controls with the little symbols for up and down on the steering wheel are for preset stations only. Use the tuner knob to tune to the satellite station you want and preset it. You hold down a preset number until you hear a beep. You can preset a number of stations on each number for satellite. Then, when you have preset the stations, use the buttons on the steering wheel and, by looking on the screen, you just tap up or down and get your station. This is the same for nonsatellite stations also. Mine works great now that I know how to do it!

fosman77

I have always rotated 5 tires, I rotate front to back and side to side, I have a 1992 Thunderbird that I rotated this way I got 111,000 miles out of my first set and I now have 91,000 on my second set and they look pretty good still, I plan to do this with my Avalon also, I rotate every 5000 miles.

mikes.

I had some time to kill so I thought I'd drop in and see whats new. Nothing much I see. Some old faces still around and several new ones.

I've had my 05 ltd for 9 months and 14,350 miles now. The only problem I've had is that the right rear door rubber at the bottom had to be replaced. Otherwise I love this car now as much as I did back in Feb. when I bought it.

MikeS.

ososlick

Thank you for the excellent instructions regarding xm operation. Now it works fine for me. The owners manual certainly lacks any useful information on the subject and the Toyota dealer is not much better.

norcalmike2

I want to thank everyone for all the great things I have learned by reading this forum. I bought a silver 2006 XLS last week at $500.00 over invoice from Elk Grove Toyota in northern California. I really enjoyed learning how to take the oil filter out by reading this forum. Does anyone know what Toyota's position is on using synthetic oil in the new Avalons? If synthetic is OK, do I stick with the 5-30 viscosity? Thank you very much.

limiteddriver

Went back to the dealer this morning and got a print out from the parts department of the valve train in the '05 and '04 Avalon V6 engines. The '05 has the hydraulic lifters and the '04 the shims/mechanical lifters. The technician said he was thinking they were the same. Thanks to you and fin for the copies of the valve train description.

kessler

Thanks Zekeman1 for the tip on moving the antenna. Piece of cake!

10 Character display:
Like others in this forum, I am greatly disappointed with the limited XM display. Toyota's claim for the Avalon's advanced technology is overstated.

I would encourage all who feel as I do to call Toyota's customer concern line (1-800-331-4331) and file a concern over this issue. It quite possibly could result in a "fix" for present and/or future owners.

Interestingly, after finding that my Dealer had absolutely no knowledge of the issue, I contacted JBL, who passed the buck stating that although their name appears on the radio they do not make it. They claim that Toyota's OEM Division is responsible for the manufacture, installation, and operation of the radio.

Trying to find someone at Toyota with any information is next to impossible.

The above number (1-800-331-4331)has been the best bet so far. The customer relations gentleman suggested I encourage others to follow suit.

Other than the XM display issue, and a wimpy NAV system, I love the car. Garmin's portable GPS is sooo much nicer. It's database allows guidance off the major roads and even displays current vehicle speed on the screen. That is a GPS capability that should be shown.

captain2

In the last few years most mfgrs. have been recommending 5W oils partly because lighter oils help fuel economy. Viscosity (thickness) breakdown (hot engine)is more likely with the lighter weight oils, likewise cold engine lubrication better with lighter weight oils. Synthetic oils have improved to the point that they can maintain a correct vicosity and therefore provide better overall lubrication than mineral based oils - regardless of temperatures. There should be no question - use the 5W-30 as recommended, and use a good synthetic such as Mobil 1, its easily exceeds Toyota recommendations - About 4 bucks a quart at WalMart/Costco etc. - spend the extra money!