2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

4439

The next time you are driving at 25mph to 35mph in regular mode, shift into S-mode. You will notice that when shifting into S-mode the transmission will automatically shift into 4th gear. You will feel the car downshift into 4th gear and if you look at the Tachometer you will see a rise in RPM's (it will be a slight rise). Shifting back into regular mode will make the car shift into 5th gear and there will be a decrease in RPM's. The car will shift into 5th gear whenever the computer determines it is necessary not at a preset speed.

As far as the 7 forward gears.....I am unfamiliar with that.

bluesman3

You can buy an iPod input device from Soundgate.com, supposedly it will interface with the Toyo. display unit.

ange

I have not seen any Avalon manual topics re watching DVD on the navigation screen. I know the big Lexus auto has that feature. Their system uses the touch screen and has more features

jdre86

For your information 4439, the Avalon does not automatically shift into 4th gear when you shift into S-mode. The display below "S" will indicate "4", but that does not necessarily mean that the transmission is in 4th gear @ the time. Another thing, the transmission is never in 5th gear between 25 and 35 MPH. The transmission will shift into 5th gear at around 45-46 MPH. At or above and only at or above 45-46 MPH will the transmission downshift to 4th gear when you select S-mode.

Shifting back into regular mode will make the car shift into 5th gear and there will be a decrease in RPM's.

Again, this is only valid if the car is above the 45-46 MPH required for a shift to 5th gear.

Here's a test. Drive your Avalon on a flat straight road and set the cruise control at 44MPH. You can do this in Drive or in S-Mode. I can guarantee you that your Avalon will not shift into 4th gear.

I'm not knocking the "7 forward gears", but I'm unfamiliar with that as well.

clarkkent

I just rented a new 2006 Avalon. Very nice car. I found it just like a Camry, but a little more leg room in the back.

I thought the leather was a little cheap and the engine was great on power but it had a buzz to it. Just a little vibration. You just noticed it.

A very nice car.

I would not buy one, but, only becasue the arm rest is too low for me. I could not rest my elbow on it while driving.

That is the ONLY reason I wouldn't buy it. It's a biggie for me, but probably not for everyone.

Next I will rent a Lexus to see if the arm rest is higher!

I was overall very impressed with the Avalon! CK

gladiator99

Hello havalongavalon!! Hi to beeman4u.
Nice post. After 12,000 KM and almost one year, I too am very satisfied with our 05 Avalon. In spite of a few minor problems, which have been corrected, this car continues to impress us. I have gotten used to the indecisive shifting which only occurs infrequently. I am glad we made the decision to purchase the 05 instead of waiting for the 06.
I have been checking out the new offerings from Lexus and have found the new IS 350 to be a bit small compared to the Avalon. I have seen some pictures of the new ES350 which looks larger than the IS series. Will be interesting to see this car.
As I have been away for the last two months I have put a nav system on hold. There have been quite a few new gps systems introduced including the Cobra series and the garmin Nuvi 350. I am planning a trip to Calgary in April and will visit GPS city where I can see these units demo'd and I may purchase one at that time. Check out the features of the Garmin nuvi 350. It is a smaller unit but I like that feature, as it doesn't clutter up the dash.
As far as changing out my headlights, I am planning to replace the low beams with the silverstars from Sylvania, #9006 ST. I haven't looked at how easy or difficult the changeover would be.
It is great to see that some of the original 05 owners are still around and reading the posts here.
I have really enjoyed reading the experiences of many other owners and getting tips and ideas about our new Avalons. Keep up the great posts.
Gladiator99 (havasmartavalon)

mem4

I've read all these posts about transmission hesitation and I have one thought- if the automatic in the Avalon is at lease as good as I would be with a 5 speed manual then I'm happy. I drove manual shift vehicles from 1980 to 1999. Even after driving a stick for all that time on occasion I would still pick the wrong gear downshifting or up shifting. One of the hardest choices is exactly what people are criticizing the Avalon for, finding the right gear when slowing from say 60 to 40 then accelerating. If you go to 3rd from 5th then the engine will race, if you go to 4th then you may be lugging and then when you accelerate you have to drop to 3rd to get the RPM's up.

The only difference between a human and a 5 speed manual and an automatic 5 speed is the human can learn and adapt. If you get to know a vehicle as you drive it you can anticipate what gear to use, say on a hill you drive every day, by trial and error. An automatic has no idea you are going up the same hill day in and day out, it's logic will stay the same and it will pick the same gear sequence. If that sequence bothers you then you will be bothered every time you drive up that hill.

scoti1

Some people experiencing hesitation report that one of the most frustrating factors is that it is inconsistent, so it is difficult to adjust driving style accordingly.

limiteddriver

A previous post said placing the foot in the wrong position on the accelarator caused the hesitation in the car in question. This explains the hesitation problem, right?

jdre86

What wrong way can you put your foot on the accelerator than...on it ? This doesn't explain the hesitation. All of the hesitation is coming from the "brilliant" transmission that does such a good job of not hurting itself, but leaving the driver in tight situations. Floor it, give it a second to decide what it wants to do (pick the right gear yadda, yadda, yadda) and then those 268 (now) or 280 (pre-SAE blah) horses will take off. I've actually grown accustomed to it. Every now and then, it gets a bit annoying, but for the most part everything's ok. Mem4 gave a pretty good analyzation of it.

havalongavalon

If you get to know a vehicle as you drive it you can anticipate what gear to use, say on a hill you drive every day, by trial and error. An automatic has no idea you are going up the same hill

Precisely. Very good analysis, mem4. I drive up the same 10% grade daily at 30-45 mph, as traffic allows. When I reach the plateau I ease up on the gas to continue driving at the same speed. If I drive in automatic it will not upshift; it will keep revving at over 3000 rpm in 3rd gear even though it could shift to 4th and 5th on the flat. I drive in S-mode so that I can nudge it into 4th and 5th upon reaching the plateau.

I believe the reason it won't shift when in automatic, it that the system interprets my letting up on the gas as an intention to possibly slow down to a stop, which it would accompany by downshifting, not upshifting. We anticipate transitions from uphill to level to downhill and can make adjustments that a car cannot match, even if it has tilt sensors. Driving in S-mode, we can provide this extra input when needed.

havalongavalon

captain2

actually the arm rest can be adjusted and locked to a higher position

nimimi

If the armrest to which you are referring is the cover to the rear console box between the front seats, it will slide forward and lock. How do you raise it up and down?

wnavalon

I have noticed that the 2006 3.5 Avalon is rated at 268 hp while my 2005 was rated at 280 hp. I also noticed that consumer reports said that the 2006 Avalon requires regular fuel. My 2005 required premium. Torque is down from 260 to 248 2005 vs 2006. Anyone know why ???

alan_s

I finally managed to get some kind of response out of Toyota, several weeks after filing a complaint about the transmission quirks. This is the info I received:

1. Toyota are aware of the hesitation and driveability concerns. They have received many complaints.

2. The problem is most prevalent and compounds itself when the vehicle is driven in a lot of stop and go traffic, or gas-on, gas-off situations.

3. They do not consider this a problem but a "characteristic" of the transmission and drive by wire system.

4. This "characteristic" is common to Camry, Sienna, Avalon, Highlander, ES330 and other Lexus models.

5. There is no immediate plan to address this issue on the Avalon.

6. Having the ECU chip reprogrammed by Jet or anyone else invalidates the ECU warranty.

7. They told me that all manufacturers have the same "characteristic" with their transmissions/DBW systems on their new vehicles.

I drove a 2006 Sienna and the problem was WORSE than the Avalon. I drove a 2006 Honda Pilot and Odyssey and the problem was NON EXISTENT.

In James Healy's road test of the 2007 Camry in USA Today, he reported "slipping" in the new 6 speed transmission. He also reported on the 2005 Avalon's transmission quirks when it was released. Perhaps this "characteristic" has not been resolved in the new 6 speed either.

I have fixed the 14 rattles in my Avalon, so for the first time in 8 months it is actually running like a new car.

We have decided to get a Pilot to replace our old Sienna. The build quality of the Pilot seems a lot better than the Avalon and as there is a lot of stop and go traffic in Atlanta, we don't want to live with this transmission "characteristic" in yet another car.

We won't be buying Toyotas until the "characteristic" is fixed.

havalongavalon

Hi alan_s,

Thanks for sharing this update from Toyota.

A word of caution about the Pilot: Based on over 80,000 km experience with a 2003 Pilot, it has proven to be an excellent vehicle in many respects, but all the door window frames squeak annoyingly. There were posts about this. I wonder whether Honda has fixed the cause of squeaks in the current model. If not, this alone might drive you mad.

Good luck,

havalong

limiteddriver

See post # 11387 for how to incorrectly position foot on accelerator pedal. Maybe you have the same problem?

alan_s

Thanks havalongavalon - don't tell me that about the Pilot!!! If I hear another squeak or rattle I'll have a real serious case of rattle-rage!

havalongavalon

Sorry to have brought this up, alan_s, but since it may really bother you, may want to fully research this issue before buying a Pilot. I just did a quick search for squeaks in the Pilot forum, that indicated that this particular problem may have been solved. That would be a very good thing.

alan_s

Thanks, will do. You really got me "rattled" on that one!

captain2

same engine same actual HP - all mfgrs. were forced to comply with a new set of standards that involved some realtively minor changes - such as testing the engines with the oil level low, PS pumps disconnected, and also, not coincidentally, testing the engine on whatever grade fuel is actually recommended for the car. The 05 premium was recommended, the 06 now regular is OK. Both engines, of course, will run fine on regular, although there is some power benefit to be had paying the extra 20 cents. Almost all engines will produce more HP with more octane, the Av engine no different. Honda/Acura had to do the same thing.

jdre86

With all due respect, I know how to put my foot on a gas pedal. I wear a size 15 shoe, so there's not much room for error at all. Thanks anyway though. I guess the hesitation is just a "characteristic" we all have to live with.

limiteddriver

Not all of us.

ange

You hit a sore spot when talk about 2005 avalon 280 HP.I bought my car based quite a bit on the HP. This was advertised and listed everywhere. But toyota took a short cut when they ran motor HP ratings. Some things they did was, did not add the full amount of oil, did not run the auxilaries such as the power steering pump, did manual calculations and maybe others that we have not been aware of.

We hear from the dealers the engines are the same except for the down rating. Some people say, who cares, the car has a lot of power. I had a ford police car version of the crown victoria and I expected the 280 HP. When I bought 280 HP I expected to get it, not 268. I am surprised that really no one is unhappy about the HP story.

I use regular in my limited and have no problems as the antiknock sensers and timing adjustments take over. Some HP is lost but very little. angelo

ange

I use the S mode all of the time. I have been on turnpikes and every kind of road. There is one thing, if you shift up and down, don't forget to get back into 5th when above 45 mph. I caught myself doing 60 mph in 4th gear a couple times. Milage takes a dip. ange1

luxosport

I'm amazed that a 12 speaker sound system in my 2006 Limited has no customizing capabilities other than bass, treble, fade and balance! Am I missing something? I also have a 2004 CTS that allows for numerous audio enhancement options that dramatically improve the listening experience.
Another disappointment is the lack of buttons and/or switches that are illuminated with fiberoptic lighting for night driving. The only lighted switches are my window controls. What about the door locks, rear windows, side mirror control? We got the Toyota survey questionnaire about 1 week after we took delivery asking for our comments. It would make sense to wait at least 3 months so an owner can be better prepared to make suggestions. The car is a pleasure to drive and to look at but for a top of the line car, it should be better equipped with these and other luxury touches that are found in this price range.

deanie

Hi Ange:
Yes, it's annoying that Toyota (and Honda) were the worst of the HP testing/rating abusers (deceivers?), but some if not most of the lost 12 HP is regained from using Premium gas - exactly how much will likely remain unknown until one of the car mags does a test. More annoying is the fact that Avalon doesn't have strut trunk supports instead of gooseneck hinges (for increased trunk space), an intuitive MPG meter that could be manually reset, and build quality concerns not befitting of any Toyota yet alone any $30K vehicle. But I digress....

Finally, you can rest assured the police Crown Vic would never see anything but Avalon tail lights in a straight line race, and against a Touring, the same might be true in the curves as well. Cheer up!
Regards,
Deanie

deanie

Hi Lux:
Remember, it's a Toyota, not a Lexus. Toyota artificially handicaps the Avalon so it does not embarrass its pricier Lexus siblings. As it stands, there's little to justify the roughly $30K price difference between an LS430 and an Avalon Ltd (the upcoming LS may change that).

I agree with you about the stereo - I have the 12 speaker JBL too. All things being equal, it sounds "nice", but for the audiophile it's sound is rather flat and lacks features. Want better styling, a better stereo, or real wood and metal trim, better quality leather choices/colors, selection, etc, blah, blah, blah... You have to pony up for the Lexus.

Toyota may be dumb sometimes, but they're not stupid. There have to be some sacrifices made to get a car as good as the Avalon is for $30K-$35K, while simultaneously giving people a reason to spend more for a Lexus.
Regards,
Deanie

jl618

Did you ever get the Parrot installed & if so how do you like it?

jhavign

Does the Avalon run on regular gas? I know it gets good gas mileage, but does it run ok on regular or do you need a higher octane to run well. I don't own one yet, but I'm leaning toward it.

captain2

quite well and have not observed any difference in mpg either. There is a slight difference in power - something like 0-60 in 7 seconds as opposed to 6+, but nothing that 99% of the Av drivers would really ever use. These new computer controlled engines will sense detonation and make the ignition and valve timing adjustments required. A number of these high tech engines have systems like this.
My wife's 03 Altima 3.5 - manual also says 'premium recommended for maximum performance' but it also runs fine on regular.

captain2

still a sore spot? Be thankful you weren't around in the early 70's (72 I think) when magically all cars lost 40 or 50% of their rated HP (SAE gross vs. net, along with some changes in emissions laws). Or had you bought a TL that lost the same 12 hp, and is still a great (and quite quick) car. The Avalon remains one of the most powerful 4 door sedans available especially considering its size and price. The 2GR engine (280 or 268, take your pick) without a doubt revolutionary for Toyota as it becomes the basis for many Toyota and Lexus models, and is certainly the Avalons best attribute.

ednovak

"I guess the hesitation is just a "characteristic" we all have to live with."

Just an FYI. I have a 2005 Sienna which suffered horribly from the "hesitation" issue. Toyota has a not well advertised TSB that all but eliminates the problem. My Sienna now responds with essentially no hesitation and as an added bonus the laser cruise control now is MUCH smoother as well. I don't know if they have a similar TSB for the Avalon but at least it proves it can be fixed.
One poster suggested that the reason they don't change it for everyone is that it may affect gas mileage or some other parameter that they can't afford to change for "all" of their vehicles so they only apply the TSB to those of us who complain about the problem. (Incidentally, some Toyota dealers have been known to deny all knowledge of the TSB until presented with it.)
Bottom line. With the fix in place, the Sienna is great. I believe they have a similar TSB for the 5 speed Lexus transmissions so hopefully, they will come up fix for the Avalon as well.

deanie

Hi Again:
In post 11570 I said Toyota may be dumb but they're not stupid. It seems I spoke too soon. After close scrutiny of the new Lexus ES350 photos, I couldn't believe my eyes but saw gooseneck trunk hinges (just like my 05 Avalon XLS) - not the struts that almost all luxury cars have - and some cheap cars like my Chrysler Sebring Touring (my company car). I guess I can no longer complain about the Avalon not having struts. Maybe Toyota will reintroduce those god-awful 1980's power seatbelts on the New Lexus LS460. What's next Toyota - steering column-mounted tranny shifters? Sheesh!
Regards,
Deanie

havalongavalon

Toyota has a not well advertised TSB that all but eliminates the problem. My Sienna now responds with essentially no hesitation

Interesting.

ednovak, is your Sienna's gas mileage any different now?

Also, to clarify, the Avalon does not suffer from a "hesitation" or a delayed response upon stepping on the gas; the Avalon's issue is about hunting to be in the right gear, at times, but it sure moves. Was your Sienna problem the former, or the latter?

Thanks,

havalongavalon

captain2

believe it or not, would imagine Toyota did lose a few Av sales with the console shifter and the unavailability of a front bench. Not nearly what they gained, of course - I never would have even looked at an '05 so equipped.
Haven't seen pricing or specs. yet on the new ES but imagine it to be marginally higher in price and slightly smaller than the Avalon - wonder if they will offer a 'Touring' ES...

motownusa

Console mounted shifter is synonymous with old person's car, and Toyota is trying very hard to appeal to the younger crowd, you know the baby boomer :P as opposed to people who are old enough to remember the great depression.

scoti1

Regarding the gas pedal comments, read up on wwest's theory regarding how it may be attributing to the hesitation problem. Here is a link to a post he made to someone on this issue in another Edmunds forum:

wwest, "Lexus RX 330: Problems & Solutions" #1367, 7 Mar 2006 3:31 pm

scoti1

Unfortunately the Toyota hesitation TSB does not work on everyone's vehicle. Even Toyota admitted this in their press release regarding the TSB last year. It is probably worth it for anyone who hasn't had it done yet to give it a try.

auburn96

Picked up a new limited Avalon equipped with NAV, Headrest DVDs, VSC, LaserCruise, and yes Bluetooth... It is available.

motownusa

Nice to know bluetooth is finally available. That is one area the Avy was lagging behind the competition.

mdchachi

Is the Bluetooth linked into the sound system? Where is it located? In the overhead compartment where the sunglass holder normally goes?

fragmire

alan_s: You mentioned that you have fixed 14 rattles. Did you fix these yourself? I'm experiencing mild rattle in the rear-left (near sunshade), driver-side air vent, and the rear portion of the moonroof (near the absolute center of the car). I can live with them as long as I turn on the radio, but would really love to have them fixed. Been to two different Toyota dealers a total of 5 times, but without luck. Any suggestion would be GREATLY appreciated!

kirkkempen

I'm planning to buy an Avalon soon, but have a problem. I really like the suspension in the Touring model, but don't like the interior or wheels on the Touring. Do any of you know if the suspension upgrades in the Touring are available from Toyota or elsewhere so that I could add them to the XLS?

By the way, the horsepower rating change for 06 is a government mandate. All horsepower ratings must be made using 87 octane fuel. (The 05 rating is with premium fuel.)

fragmire

I just spent about two hours reading up on whatever I could find on the Camry, and in short, I really don't see how the Camry (even the XLE) cuts in to the Avalon Limited market, especially for those who actually care about luxury features. This is what I think personally about Camry XLE V6 vs. Avalon Limited.

Things I love in the Avalon: HID headlight (would never buy a car without this again), laser cruise control (can't live without when driving from SF to San Diego), the cooled seats and rear sunshades (great in CA weather, even with window tinting), the interior dimension (enormous and great for my family), and auto-dimming outside mirrors (something I've always wanted when I had my 2001 Avalon XLS and will never go without again).

Things I don't really care about: Bluetooth (I don't talk on phone while driving, and I don't have a Bluetooth-enabled cell phone), 6-speed transmission (I don't feel that it makes that much of a difference), sound system (8 speakers in Camry vs. 12 in Avalon, so Avalon is probably better, but having listened to the Mark Levinson system in Lexus GS, both Camry and Avalon sound average).

Things I personally prefer: exterior styling (I think the Avalon looks much stronger and substantial; the new Camry has a fake sporty look with the rear taking lots of hints from Lexus IS, which is a car I really don't like in terms of styling), interior styling (I know some of you guys don't like the center console design, but I love it; my co-workers marvel at how the clutter is all hidden away in sleek covers, and how the air vents can be completely flush when closed), and name (you can call me shallow on this one; although I have minimal Lexus envy, I would never buy a car as common as a Camry / Accord; having 5 other cars that look the same to mine on the freeway within visible distance is just boring and make my car seem like a commodity)

Things I'm bitter about: touch-screen (even though the Nav in Avalon has been extremely useful for me without problem, be it the correctness of direction / location or the accurate interpretation of my voice commands, I would LOVE to have a touch-screen instead of the annoying joystick; I saw a sales at Lexus input an address into the Lexus GS nav, and it took less than 3 seconds, literally), and tire pressure sensor (I've never had any problem or accident related to tire pressure, but a nice thing to have).

Anyway. Just my two cents. Aside from a few minor gripes, I absolutely love my 2005 Avalon Limited (loaded without XM). I have no doubt the new Camry is a great car, but I would've bought the Avalon regardless

captain2

There is certainly a feature difference XLE vs. Ltd., but, also about 7 grand. Same can be said for the Touring vs. SE although not that much. What I think sells the Camry is that it does have the same drivetrain and similar performance, even though it is smaller. Same 'problem' Toyota had in 2004.

alan_s

fragmire: Yes, I fixed all the rattles myself rather than have an 18yo intern at the dealership rip my car to shreds.
I'll help you where I can.

Sunshade rattle
Question: "mild rattle in the rear-left (near sunshade)" - is that the moonroof sunshade or the rear window sunshade?
I have fixed a number of moonroof rattles and also rear parcel shelf rattles.

Air vent rattle
I don't know about the air vent rattle but if you describe it further I may be able to help. Does it rattle with the fan off? At some but not all fan speeds? Is it a constant rattle or just when going over bumps or just when cold? Can you replicate it by drumming with your hand in the general area?

Moonroof rear rattle in center of vehicle.
This is caused by the inside of the roof lining hitting up against the transverse roof ribbing that runs between the moonroof and the rear overhead map light. Can be induced by drumming gently on the roof lining by hand.

I fixed this as follows:

1. Remove the rear overhead map light assembly by gently pulling it downward until the plastic clips are visible, depress clips and then ease out.

2. Unplug wire connector from lamp assembly.

3. Gently pull down the roof lining by inserting your hand forwards into the lamp aperture and using a flashlight you will see the transverse rib running ahead of you.

4. Using roughly a 2 inch by 6 inch piece of foam, gently push the foam thru the aperture and position between the rib and the inside of the roof lining in the center, so the roof lining is no longer in contact with the roof rib. The roof lining will hold it in place.
5. Reconnect map light and gently press back into place.

Let me know the details about the others...

If anyone else is interested, I have fixes for the following rattles:

1. Driver's door trim.
2. Dash area below steering column.
3. Console.
4. Front right passenger seat.
5. Rear parcelshelf.
6. Front map light roof area.
7. Moonroof.
8. Moonroof wind deflector.
9. Roof areas at left and right of moonroof.
10. Rear roof lining.
11. Traveling "marble rolling" noise below driver's seat - (that was a killer to find and fix).
12. Rattle in left of trunk.
13. Spare tire cover rattle.
14. Heat shield vibration/rattle above rear mufflers.
15. Rear left door noise.

Whew, perhaps getting old and going deaf won't be so bad after all!

captain2

it's not just the shocks/spring rates etc. but also the steering - the Touring not 'one finger' light as in the other trims - more road feel. Would think it would be cheaper to change the wheels, and replace the aluminum plastic with the wood plastic - unless, of course, you dislike black leather.

fragmire

alan_s: Thank you for the rapid and detailed response. I will attempt to fix the moonroof rattle using your procedure. I'm assuming the foam is something I can get from Home Depot?

As for the other rattles I described, I think they have the following mapping to your list:

Sunshade -> 5. Rear parcelshelf
Basically, the rattles occurs whenever I'm driving, even without significant road imperfections

Air Vent -> 2. Dash area below steering column
I know the rattle is coming from that general area, but can't really pin point is since, obviously, I'm always driving when that happens. The dealer did remove the air vent and tightened the assembly, but that didn't help with anything.

I also have occassional rattle from 1. driver's door trim near the seatbelt assembly (could also be 9. roof area to the left of moonroof) and console, but these are infrequent enough that I've learned to ignore them.

I know this is a lot to ask, but if you have time, do you think you could post instructions on how to fix all the rattles you described? I'm sure some of those are happening to me and I'm just classifying them incorrectly.

If not, I'd be very happy to have instructions on how to fix the two I mentioned. Thanks!

fragmire

I see your point, but I personally disagree with this view. In my opinion, once the engine power / performance exceeds a certain amount, it doesn't matter anymore. To me, that was around the 250hp / 7s 0-60 mark. Beyond that, it's all about luxury features that I described. Just look at how many people still prefer Lexus GS / LS over the Avalon. If you take away those who are in for the badge, I'm sure you'd find plenty of people who value the "small amenities" enough to pay the extra $30k.

Just my 2 cents