2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

havalongavalon

Thank you to all who responded to my message #11762, and several others who have followed this issue with related comments.

I counted 10 direct replies, of which 9 reported having had some hesitation problems. It is impressive that of these, all 9 found that placing the foot more vertically was helpful! If we add two earlier reported cases and my own confirmation, there are now a total of 12 reported cases to date, for all of which this remedy has worked.

The consistency of these replies provides stong support for this set of observations:

1. the Avalon gas pedal is more difficult to control when pressed near the bottom than near the middle,

2. "toe drivers" generally seem to exprience more hesitation problems,

3. "toe drivers" who try to place the foot more vertically and contact the middle of the pedal, find that this change cures or improves the hesitation problem.

It is interesting that similar hesitation problems were also solved by changing the foot placement on the gas pedal in a 2005 Camry, a 1991 LeBaron, one or more Volvos and possibly a BMW.

These numbers so far are small, but very consistent. It would be good to hear from more contributors to this forum to see how this theory holds up as more drivers try to modify their foot placement.

Thanks and regards,

havalongavalon

motownusa

Tried the pedal experiment with my 03 Camry V6 and I must say the car feels way more responsive than if I step on the top half of the pedal instead of the bottom half. The rpm goes up consistent with the speed and no lag or hesitation. Wow the guy who came with this theory deserves the nobel prize :P

captain2

glad to hear it's helping you (and others) - thank our Canadian friend (see post 11732) for his 'discovery'. Afraid I may have coined a new phrase 'toe driver' - post 11759.
BUT, while changing foot position can certainly serve to mitigate some of the 'jumpiness' out of our driving, it's no cure and is not changing the basic transmission programming (holding onto higher gears) that apparently is present in most all Toyota/Lexus products - which does aggravate the 'hesitation' problem.

endovit

I'm sure. Don't have the alarm system.

sofl06avalon

I believe "discovery" came post 11643 on 3/17/06, not #11732 as credited.

bmavalon

Well, it's beginning to look like this will be my first and last Toyota. After putting up with a smell every time the heater came on during the winter I have had my 05 Avalon Limited into the dealer twice. After the first attempt by the dealer to fix it failed, one of the dealer's employees sat in the car, confirmed the smell and said it should not be like that. We rescheduled an appt. and the dealer was to consult with Toyota. The car was in today and the handling of the problem was very interesting and, frankly, very disappointing. During the day the dealer personnel called and asked for another explanation (which was already in their work order in great detail)for the Toyota rep because the Toyota rep. did not understand the problem. Howevr, after they test drove the car and confirmed again the smell, the explanation of the Toyota rep was - "that's normal". This despite the dealer telling me that they had not had any prior complaints of this type and the fact that the Toyota rep made no mention of such smell being normal until he rode in the car. Hard to believe that a $35,000+ car is supposed to smell every time the heater is on. I'm coming to the conclusion that "Toyota Quality" gets too much credit and is an oxymoron.

bluesman3

It's also called "anti-theft" and as I said it's standard on a Limited.

limiteddriver

Today I tried the infamous "toe position" on the gas pedal. I don't drive this way, but I wanted to see what I have missed. I found the position to be very uncomfortable for my foot and leg. Maybe you get used to this, but I don't think I could.

limiteddriver

Please tell us what it smells like.

tstrick320

I haven't experienced the hesitation problem in my 2006 Limited (built 12/05) but I was interested in your "solution" and experimented with "toe driving".

I can't produce the hesitation problem in my car, regardless of how I press the gas pedal -- toe, flat, bottom, top, middle. I don't doubt others genuinely have this problem but I'm going to count myself lucky to have bought one of the "good" Avalons. Perhaps I'll invite Toyota to reverse-engineer my car (for a fee) so they can fix everyone else's... :P

tstrick320

There are a variety of iPod integration kits that seem to claim they can integrate with the Avalon audio system. "Integration" is a loosely-defined term and it's often not clear whether these devices connect audio, provide steering-wheel control of the iPod, or display song information on the dashboard display. Some work by pretending to be the CD changer so you lose CD playback and have a compromised interface to the iPod.

The most promising device I've found, so far, is the SoundLinQ SLI from Vais Technology (http://www.vaistech.com/sli.html). However, even this unit isn't very clear on exactly what it does in the current-generation Avalon and there are inconsistencies on their web site.

I have an iPod and I'd really like to use it in the car IF I can find something that provides quality sound, steering wheel control, song text display on the dash, and does NOT disable the CD player/changer.

I'm wondering if anyone has installed the SoundLinQ and can vouch for what it actually, truly does in a 05-06 Avalon with navigation.

I'm interested on feedback for the SoundLinQ or any other device that people here have actually used that provides this integration.

havalongavalon

"Afraid I may have coined a new phrase 'toe driver' - post 11759." captain2.

"I believe "discovery" came post 11643 on 3/17/06, not #11732 as credited." sofl06avalon.

Sorry, guys, but avalonbad deserves this honor! He reported his problem in post 11387, back on 13 Feb 2006, as follows: "as a toe driver my foot woud touch the tip at times and send the drive by wire into a frenzy." Although avalonbad thought that his problem was due to a softening pedal tip on warm days (as I discussed in my post 11761) he described the same symptom, and also found the same cure: "I adjusted my foot to place the greatest pressure high on the pedal and the problem went away."

So avalonbad gets my award as the first Avalon poster who brought this up!

Anyway, as you know, to gain new insights takes the summed efforts from many contributors to a forum such as this. Some provide important anecdotal evidence, others provide theories, yet others challenge them, while others absorb the evidence and may provide new theories or conclusions. And it's useful to remember that

"Theories have four stages of acceptance:

i) this is worthless nonsense;
ii) this is an interesting, but perverse, point of view;
iii) this is true, but quite unimportant;
iv) I always said so!

-J.B.S. Haldane, 1963

:shades: havalongavalon

endovit

Anti-theft - yes. Alarm system, no.

algee

This is nonsense. Every driver has been used to driving the way they have for years and therefore compensate for whichever way they touch the gas pedal instinctively.

This thread proves you can convince people anything is right. Hysteria.

It is not even a blind test and everyone that drives a different way is automatically very aware of what they are doing and probably compensating.

This test is useless.

mem4

Sounds like someone isn't too happy the issue may be something simple and caused by the driver and not the fault of the transmission and Toyota which he's been trashing for months.

captain2

think we need to change your forum moniker - how about "major bringdown" Useless and nonsense, perhaps - but, apparently does work for some folks - so, I guess, you need to tell them that they are just imagining that their car is driving a little more smoothly! And a simple application of the the laws of physics (leverage), if you think about it, that I guess also don't apply?

limiteddriver

Reading between the lines of your post, you tried it and it worked and you don't want to admit it.

zekeman1

Ahhh Algee, other than Toyota, is there anything in life that would make you happy? Have you always been this miserable? :confuse:
zekeman1

pat

Ever heard the expression don't feed the trolls?

regis

"Ever heard the expression don't feed the trolls?"

In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as in online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants (see Anonymous Internet posting). "Troll" can also mean the message itself or be a verb meaning to post such messages. "Trolling" is also commonly used to describe the activity.

pat

Other comments may be directed to me in email. Thanks.

chrstna446

Curry,
I have the same problem and asked the service department if they could fix it. They told me I have an after-market car alarm that is causing the horn to honk and they can't fix it other than disconnect the alarm. Since I bought the car from a broker and the original dealer is about 100 miles away, I'm trying to live with it. I might have to have them disconnect it, though since the horn is very loud.

hylyner

"Ever heard the expression don't feed the trolls?"

Good advice. It would be wise to heed our host's request.
Some folks are obssessed with negativism, and use forums like this to get attention.
Irrational?
Definitely!!
Does responding add value to any discussion?
No way!!
It just encourages more troll.
Ignore, and it eventually goes away.

billyg

You are so right. This is my third Avalon, not to mention many cars before. This is the first time that it was suggested that the car train me how to handle the controls to overcome the CAR'S Problem.

Probably someday, just like the loose fog lights, a TSB will be issued to correct what way previously "normal".

You should be able to jump in the car and GO. Don't let Toyota off the hook or the transmission shortcomings will never be corrected.

calhoun213

I was getting close to pulling the trigger on a new Camry when one of the local dealers started offering new Avalons for $24,099. Since they are not discounting the new Camry very much you can get an Avalon for close to the same price. So what do I gain by getting an Avalon? A little more room, not really that important to me. Is there much difference in the ride / handling between the two? How is the cloth interior on the Avalon? Since the Avalon is considered an upgrade does the lack of a leather interior hurt the resale?

tkevinc1

I posted some time earlier that I had three appts at different dealers to review my engine knock. The results were not impressive. All three techs and service managers acknowledged the noise. The first dealer told me I needed fuel injector cleaner and to buy my gas somewhere else. The second acknowledged this was a valve train issue but was normal for the VVTi and had me drive 4-Runner with the VVTi. Same noise only louder!! The final dealer just told me some do it and some don't but it won't hurt the life of the drivetrain. I contacted Toyota and advised of the results and requested an appt with a regional rep. They of course refused. Anyone else having any luck with this issue?

I am also finding that transmissions issues seldom are evident when the engine is running smoothly. The rougher the engine the jerkier the transmission. They may not come from the same cause but definitely feed off each other. Anyone else experience this?

algee

Thank you.

There are so many people on this board that are afraid to admit that TOYOTA is not the god of autos.

Imagine, changing your foot position the you have been using with many other cars for years and then blaming yourself for not using the right foot position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem is the Toyota design and the hesitation is their problem, not yours. Please don't beat yourself for their problem.

Toyota Avalon has many good features but I will not let them off for the poor design problems.

I love the fact here that if you blame Toyota you are a troll :-)
There sure are a lot of Toyota lackies here.

Now, try and get out of your hypnotic trance that they put you in and realize that you are a good person and Toyota has the hesitation design problem.

Al

captain2

and this would be the first intelligent sounding post I've seen from you in months - and not far off base either! Raving about 'excrement' not the way to get a point across?

bmavalon

It is kind of a dry, stale smell which is very obnoxious (whenever my kids are in the car they have to roll the windows down because they say it makes them feel sick). I have tried to think of an apt description and the best I can come up with is a smell of heavy oil (not machine oil) being burned off of a hot surface. It happens the first 15 minutes or so that the heater is on and then goes away.

havalongavalon

"Imagine, changing your foot position the you have been using with many other cars for years and then blaming yourself for not using the right foot position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yes, Algee. This is exactly what Avalon drivers who are unhappy with engine surges or uneven shifting, need to consider. And this may apply to not only the Avalon, but also to other DBW cars, to different degrees.

Remember when ABS was introduced? We all needed to re-learn HOW to step on the brake pedal in slippery conditions. We had been taught to pump the pedal fast, to prevent the wheels from locking and skidding, and now we were told DON'T. With ABS, we need to apply a steady pressure. Pumping the brakes can confuse the ABS electronic control system.

Imagine!

Algee, have you tried to change your foot position on the gas pedal yet? Some drivers who press on the bottom of the gas pedal may involuntarily produce large, more inconsistent pedal sensor signals that can confuse the electronic control system, leading to inappropriate engine surges and downshifting. I'd like to have you try to place your foot upright so it contacts the middle portion of the gas pedal, and notice whether the engine and transmission response is smoother than when you step on the gas pedal near the bottom, with the toes. Try it, and then tell me what your conclusion is.

You are right, this is not an experiment that can be easily done double-blind but if you want, you can try it single-blind, by asking a passenger to come along and judge any differences in the car responses as you repeatedly change your foot between "position A" and "position B" while driving in conditions that usually have caused your car to hesitate. Same type of test as when you have your eye glasses checked, the optometrist asks you which way you see better, without telling you the properties of each test lens.

Thank you for your participation!

havalongavalon

havalongavalon

bmavalon, this is not normal, and you should insist that Toyota look fully into it.

Sounds as if some small creature may have crawled in there and died, or there is an accumulation of organic debris, or some type of oil may have spilled inside during manufacture. Who knows? But whatever is the cause, what should happen is that Toyota accept the responsibility to take the system apart and clean it out or replace any suspect parts.

Best wishes!

havalongavalon

limiteddriver

May I suggest that you try this for a few days? Run your air conditioner and heater and see if this helps. The condensate from the AC may flush out some odor causing item in the duct work. Don't worry that you'll get cold, the heater will be hotter than the AC. A mustry smell is sometimes caused by mold or algae in the system too. I run my AC any time the car is operating and have never had odors in any of my cars from the HVAC.

melbc

I hate posting a reply to people who chose to resort to name calling to get their point across but I simply cannot let this go by. I am one of those who got the answer to their transmission hesitation problems by simply changing the position of my foot on the gas pedal. It sounded so simple that I was very skeptical that it could help in any way. My previous car had many problems and I thought here we go again.

But guess what, by simply moving my seat ahead a few inches and firmly planting my foot on the pedal, the problem has been solved. It is as simple as that. No hesitation at all.When I want the car to go, it goes and a heck of alot faster than any car I have ever driven. I really appreciate the poster and dealership mechanic that discovered the answer to this dilemma and I hope the message gets out to more people who were getting as frustrated as I was.

As for calling people lacky's because they are enthusiastic about finding the answer to their problems... My previous car was a Chrysler Intrepid. My husband's family are Chrysler fanatics and we nearly caused a family crisis by turning to Toyota for the reliability factor. I really liked Chrysler and thought some of their designs were rather unique. We have always bought Chrysler's. But the problem is solved and whether it is a Toyota design problem or whatever, I don't care. We have no problems now and I really like this car.The quality in comparison to Chrysler is really no comparison at all. For now I am satisfied.

By the way...my Intrepid had a similar problem and I always thought it was the car. I wish I could have my car back and test this theory on it, but I guess I will never know.

MelBC

retired7

A TSB using a hack saw to cut off the bottom 1/3 of the gas pedal forcing us to place our foot on the "hump"!

retired7

It's a safety issue (can lose valuable time) to have to recheck for proper foot location on gas pedal for best tranny/engine response in a emergency situation. The first time an accident happens with this as a contributing factor will get the accident attorneys involved..

havalongavalon

A TSB using a hack saw to cut off the bottom 1/3 of the gas pedal forcing us to place our foot on the "hump"!

You know, I also thought about it! This alone might do it... for drivers with shoe size 8 or larger, anyway.

Problem is, the target "hump" is about 6" up from the floor. Drivers with small feet can only reach it by holding the leg and foot up in the air, a situation that can lead to fatigue and poor control, again. The ideal foot position is close to vertical and with the heel resting on the floor. So, better don't hack off the bottom of the gas pedal!

havalongavalon

havalongavalon

It's a safety issue (can lose valuable time) to have to recheck for proper foot location on gas pedal for best tranny/engine response in a emergency situation.

No, I don't see it this way, except maybe while you experiment with best foot position, which you should obviously do on an empty road with no traffic!

The idea is not to try to shift your foot position back and forth according to circumstances. The idea is to permanently modify your seating posture, so that your foot is further up and closer to the pedals, as this will prevent undesirable "toe reaching". Once you have modified your posture, you will quickly become used to it. And you won't spend any more time rechecking it.

havalongavalon

melbc

Maybe I am just not getting it?! Really, maybe I misunderstood the 'fix' I just jammed my driver's seat ahead a few inches and my foot automatically 'sets' exactly where it should be. I don't really think about it anymore, except the odd time when I notice how fast the response is to my pressing my foot on the pedal. Before it seemed like the transmission had to think about how to respond and that could take a couple of seconds. Now it just goes!

MelBC

bmavalon

Hi. Thanks for the input. Actually, the first time the car was in the dealership for this problem they said they checked the "whole heating system" and then put some smell good chemical in it. As I said, initially a dealer rep. sat in the car and said it was not normal. Once the Toyota rep experienced the smell, all of a sudden it was normal. I have driven more than a dozen cars in my life and if this smell is normal, it is only normal for a Toyota because I have not experienced this problem with any other car. At least the Toyota rep should have the honesty to say that it isn't normal but they are not sure how to correct it. It is not something in the air conditioning because the smell does not occur at all when the a/c is on, only when the heat comes on. Very disappointing handling by Toyota and the Toyota dealership.

havalongavalon

By the way...my Intrepid had a similar problem and I always thought it was the car. I wish I could have my car back and test this theory on it, but I guess I will never know.

MelBC, thanks again for sharing your really useful experience with regard to the Avalon gas pedal. Can I just ask what shoe size you wear, if you don't mind?

To relieve your curiosity about the Intrepid, you can of course find any number of them in used car lots nowadays. Just ask to take one for a test drive! (But better do it quickly; these ancient cars may be fast disappearing... )

havalongavalon

melbc

I am a size 8 in women's sizes. I think that is a 6 mens.

As for the Intrepid, yikes, have you typed in the words Chrysler Intrepid on Google search. People think Toyota has problems. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years these cars are obsolete. Ours started to blow blue smoke and Chrysler was no help at all. We were just a few hundred KMs outside the warrenty and the car was considered finished. After investigating other companies who had similar problems with that particular engine having engine sludge we went with Toyota. Toyota handled the difficulties satisfactorily, Chrysler is being hauled into court with a class action suit. They basically told us the problem was in everyone's minds. But look at the internet sites and the horror stories! Never again!

MelBC

MelBC

havalongavalon

hylyner, you said

"On the other hand, it certainly is interesting reading about this foot position issue. Maybe it is true--the solution has been there all along. It certainly makes a lot of sense, so let's hope that turns out to be the answer which has been so elusive for so long.
But why be insulting or abusive to those who feel that maybe it is the answer?"

Here are some classic thoughts in that direction:

"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells

"Almost all really new ideas have a certain aspect of foolishness when they are first produced." - Alfred North Whitehead

"All great truths begin as blasphemies." - George Bernard Shaw

"The voyage of discovery lies not in seeking new horizons, but in seeing with new eyes." - Marcel Proust

Sooo... let's be patient...

havalongavalon

hylyner

Great quotations, but I think not quite appropriate to the current situation?
The "patience" part certainly works though!

Perhaps Mr.Churchill may have come closer when he spoke to the House of Lords during the dark days of WWII:

"Appeasement, as a general rule simply results in more aggression"

Or how about:

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it".

Regardless of how we view it, thanks for your input in these forums.

BTW, I think Churchill was the best of them.

yanker

We had similar problem with 1986 Corolla They changed the heater box although several people thought we were crazy. That was exactly what the problem was. a dead creature in the heater

pat

No one said if you blame Toyota you are a troll.

Trolls post for the sake of aggravating others into responding in an annoyed fashion. You have to decide if that shoe fits or if it doesn't.

Some folks have found a work-around for a problem they have experienced. I don't recall reading that therefore Toyota is not at fault. All that's going on here is people are dealing with reality instead of sitting back and doing nothing while waiting for Toyota to do whatever.

There is no need to blame them for that.

Meanwhile, name-calling and/or insults of any sort are inappropriate. That's true for you and true for everyone else here.

Had someone emailed me earlier about this situation, it would have been dealt with sooner. I cannot be here 24/7.

wwest

When you use the tip-end of the accelerator pedal you need less pressure to overcome the pedal's spring return. The higher you go on the pedal the more pressure it will take to move the pedal an equal distance.

Wait, there's more...

Lets assume the gas pedal has 18 compass degrees of angular movement from idle to WOT.

If your toe is on the very end of the pedal and you move it, depress the pedal 1/4 inch lets assume that that would mean 5% of throttle opening.

On the other hand if you move your foot up that same 1/4 inch of depression means a much greater level of throttle opening.

My point is that by moving your foot's contact point with/to the accelerator upward then any specific movement, depression, will result in a much more definitive command to the engine/transaxle ECU.

A more "definitive" accelerator pedal movement will always result in less indecision by the engine/transaxle ECU.

A 1/4" of movement of your foot's contact point on the "far", extended, end of the gas pedal will not yield as great a throttle command as would a 1/4" of depression farther up the pedal.

Additionally the farther up your foot's contact point with the pedal is the more pressure will be required to overcome the return spring's tension.

An example, maybe. My 1978 Porsche has a mechanical bottom mounted clutch pedal. Because its a mechanical system I can adjust the clutch release/engage point where-ever is the most comfortable for me given my heighth.

A friend has an 88 Porsche with a hydraulically actuated clutch and it continuously adjust the clutch "throw" such that the release point is always at or near the top of the "throw".

I cannot readily or easily drive his 88 because my leg strength is poor at just the exact point, angle of my knee joint, when the clutch reaches its disengagement point. It turns out that as long as my leg is reasonably straight or close thereby I have good "tactile" control of the clutch pedal.

But once my knee joint is bent beyond a certain angle I no longer have good leg strength and so my "tactile" clutch feel is not good.

My real problem with the 88 is that in order to be comfortable with my position with the stearing wheel I adjust the seat travel, which apparently at my heigth that puts me out-of-wack" with the clutch pedal.

Now I guess we can understand that quite a few new vehicles now have adjustable pedal clusters.

algee

I was called a troll. I am not. I merely stated that if I am a troll then I get to define what they are.

The main point was that there are excessive excuses for Toyota problems and it is apparent that some people like to address me as a troll or if you look at some of those posts again you will see innuendo to calling me other names.

I post because it is my main purpose to alert newcomers that there are Toyota problems and let's not leave them off the hook with pseudo fixes.

I have an Avalon limited and these problems exist in my car and the dealer states it is normal. It is NOT normal for the engine hesitation and other problems. These are design FLAWS.

I do not resort to name calling. I simply respond to those who call me names either directly or indirectly. There are people here that (in my mind) are Toyota lackies, that may be here from Toyota and trying to make us belive it is our fault that the car has design problems.
Thank you

Al

catman2050

Al --

a couple of things:

1. Have you tried re-positioning your foot on the gas pedal...and, if so, have you noticed a difference?

2. maybe its a design problem...or maybe its just a drive-by-wire thing. if this hesitation thing is common to all drive-by-wire vehicles, then its not a design problem. Instead, its something that accompanies drive-by-wire vehicles...and those of us who choose to buy those vehicles should be aware of how to step on the gas pedal.

3. and, if this is common to all drive-by-wire vehicles, I agree that all salesmen and dealers should know this and be able to inform the consumer of this. the dealer should not get off the hook by calling the hesitation thing "normal".

4. I've had my Avalon for just one week and I love the car so far. I have not encountered the hesitation problem, but I have also made a conscious effort to put my entire foot on the gas pedal (as a result of reading comments on this board). All I've experienced is a smooth delivery of power when I step on the gas.

5. I agree that Toyota isn't perfect...and neither is the Avalon. However, I don't know that there are too many perfect cars (I haven't found one yet). I do believe that the Avalon gives you a lot of car for the money and, for me, it was the best fit. Anyway, I respect that you believe there is some type of flaw in the Avalon. If you are aware of a flawless car, I'd appreciate learning its name.

scoti1

"if this hesitation thing is common to all drive-by-wire vehicles, then its not a design problem."

It isn't common to all DBW vehicles. It does not even appear to be common among all Toyota vehicles using DBW.

Regardless, I disagree with your statement (if all have it, it is not a design problem). You can have a design problem that is across the board. You can also have a design problem that effects only a certain percentage. A manufacturer's excuse that "they all do it" does not relieve them from responsibility.

lavalo

My experiences since delivery early Mar 06.

The 06 Avalon Blizzard White came fully loaded.

Molding & Mud Guards

Side moldings /w/ matching color to car can be found at website www.toyotapartsdelivered.com. Select accessories then follow paths for year, model and body style.

Moldings are matched to color scheme of car.
Mud guards are "black"

I let the dealer do the ordering and installing. I would have saved $235 if I had ordered the parts myself and installed them, but a 71 I didn't want to botch the job on a $38000 investment. If the dealer makes any mistakes he has to deal with it. If you don't get these sticky moldings on right the first time, I suspect you'll have a mess on your hands. Same thing holds true for the mud guards. I understand this requires some drilling of holes into the wheel well walls. For those that have little fear of these things, I say GO-FOR-IT and save some dollars.

Actually the dealers total install price was $33 less then indicated at the above website. The web site gives a break on parts if you buy direct from them, but I don't think the price break includes shipping, handling and taxes. I may be wrong here since I did not go all the way to the website "check-out" to see what my total cost would be. The dealer charged me the parts list price indicated on the website. I don't think it made much difference whether I ordered the parts or the dealer ordered the parts, again taking into account the costs for shipping, handling and taxes.

In my opinion the addition of these protective accessories did not detract from the Avalon's appearance, and gives me something less to worry about in a parking lot.

Fuel milage.
I have filled the car twice since leaving the dealership. The first fill up calculated out at 18 MPG, which was strictly city driving. The second fill up after a short trip was 30 MPG which was a combination of rural and freeway driving miles. I used the pencil and calculator method to get these figures (miles/gallons). Hope this figure holds up on my next trip to Calif.

Comfort. Test trip results (200 miles)

Rural and freeway miles.

Seating was very comfortable, ride was smooth over some what less then perfect roads. Nothing unusual about road noise, no bothersome exterior wind noise or interior noises.

Handled curves nicely, in fact I pushed it slightly above the recommended curve speeds and had no problems, hugged the road nicely and did not have to over steer. No power lags, especially on road grades, just very smooth power transitions through the transmission. I prefer the use of the "standard cruise" control but intend working with the "Laser Cruise" control to see if it's a useful feature.

Interior environment held steady at the selected temperature so there was no need to play around adjusting fan speeds or temp settings as you do in other cars. This is great for two people that can't ever agree on personal comfort zones. Overall my wife and I thought the Avalon gave us a very enjoyable 200 mile trip.

Navigation System.
My wife and I are techno freaks, so this NAV system will be another thing to learn and work with. On the surface it seems to be a bit easier then other systems I have worked with, but don't know for sure yet. Will be giving it a good work out when I take off for Calif in a few months. My last NAV system got me out of a driving jam when I hit the busy Calif freeways and tolls last year. Some people can do with the NAV system, but for me I view it as another safety system when I travel. Breaking down or having a medical emergency demands that I am able to let someone know exactly where I am, using my other techno gadgets like cell phones.

I think the only feature I can do without is the remote control starter. For some people this may be a great feature, however for me it's just not practical, but it came with the fully packaged 06 Avalon Limited.

Will be coming back here at a later date with my comments regarding the trip to Calif.

This web site is an excellent vehicle for trading useful general information, problems and solutions.