Up front: I'm 39 slipping fast into 40, and for the first time a big car like the new Avalon is looking really super-nice. Haven't actually spun it around the block yet, but I mean to. The power, refinement, and overall design are very appealing, but here is my problem: Over the past five years I've had euro sports sedans (Audi a4, Saab 9-3) that have made me become accostomed to a "driver-oriented" motoring experience, so the only Avalon trim level I would consider is the Touring with the tighter suspension, interior accents, etc. But please, can anyone tell me why Toyota does not let you add VSC and TRAC to the Touring line? I find this incredibly short-sighted, and a potential deal-breaker. It seems to maybe be a marketing idea so they can start the different trim lines at different price points, but even the Camry is available with these on all but the base trim. Will the '06 Avalon maybe offer VSC and TRAC on the Touring? And if anyone has any comments on the mid-life transition from the "woo-hoo" fun of great handling but sometimes harsh ride, to the more sedate (mature?) but still fun of the new Avalon, I'd appreciate the help. It ain't easy getting old, but 280 hp can sure make it not so boring...
What Toyota meant by the Michelins being designed exclusively for Toyota, was that size was not previously available in the MXV4, and they got Michelin to manufacture it. Now that's it available for the Avalon, anyone else needing that size can get it too, like for the Infiniti I35 and Acura TL.
they tested the '05 Chrysler 300, new Ford 500 and Buick Lacrosse against the 04 Avalon. What a waste of an article. I mean could they not wait a few months for the '05 Avalon?
Maybe someone could explain what is happening here in the Southeast in regard to the $699 Toyo guard protection packet. In past years I have noted that some (most) of the cars in this region seem to be re-manufactured by the distributor. The accessory groups don't correspond to factory numbers in regard to content. I think yesterday I saw a car that was supposed to come from the manufacturer with a leather interior have a distributor add on for installing leather. Does SE Toyota have some deal with Toyota to buy unfinished cars and make their own add ons? No one (well, hardly anyone)wants to buy that $699 undercoating/towing service/etc. package but if the dealer has to buy it he has to pass the cost on or eat it. I would like to deal with my local dealer. If I go out of my region to buy a car will I avoid this add on? BTW - I am 77 on the outside, 29 on the inside - maybe 30 - 31 at the most. I drive the same 356 B Porsche I bot in 1963, I have a 97 Avalon that looks too good to trade, and an 86 Camry that is only driven when the wife has the Avalon and it is raining.
Chinton - Congrats on your Porsche 356B, a wonderful machine. I have a Porsche Boxster which will soon be keeping company in my garage with a new Avalon. (Avalon will be replacing a '93 Camry)
I'm wondering if it's a deal cut by the dealer with the SE port. I've asked dealers about this before and have never gotten a straight answer. I can check one dealer's inventory and every Avalon listed has the Toyoguard. I can go to another local dealer and out of about 12 Avalons in stock, only one has Toyoguard. As a matter of fact hardly any of this dealer's inventory is "Toyojunked". Just seems strange.....
I agree with you, they had to write something to fill their pages without comapring apples to apples. As you know this motor trend article link you posted is comparing the 2004 Avalon against the 2005 American cars, that is crazy. That's apples and oranges. How can an established auto magazine write a respectable article comparingan 04 against 05's. It's nuts. They should do the same test, the 05 Avalon against the 05 American cars and then see what they have to say. What a wasted article.
True enough. Had front alignment checked and corrected at 7,000 miles--was a little off. Although (off-topic briefly) my mother's '67 Eldorado (front wheel drive) went through expensive Vogue tires like cheap chewing gum, whereas the Michelin replacements were much more durable.
I found that switching to a manual transmission in my Passat has made driving infinitely more fun,even if I'm just on my way to buying more diapers for my two-year old twins!
My 2004 Avalon and my new 2005 doesn't have the Toyo Guard 600 plus bucks rip off. My dealer is in GA. On the 04 I said i don't want the Toyo Guard and got one without, the new 2005 just didn't come with it, period, I forgot to mention I didn't want it, but my dealer probably looked for one without it realizing the deal I made couldn't afford it, so I'm sure you can order it without it. My other Avalons had the Toyo guard and honestly I didn't see the difference. Hope this helps.
Southeast Toyota and Gulf states Toyota are the only privately owned distributors unlike Central Atlantic Toyota and the rest of the other region distributors. What this means is that basically they can do whatever they want to the cars they get from Toyota (the manufacturer),like adding Toyoguard, removing factory wheels and replacing them with Enkei wheels, two tone paint jobs, etc, etc,. That's free enterprise at work. I don't agree with it but the owner does and its made him a lot of money. : ) Mackabee
Both my '99 XL and my '03 XL came with this extra added in by SE Toyota. The dealers gave it to me for what it cost them, essentially. Many dealers will because of the rip-off image of this extra. But, the liquid wax/sealer applied with this option is some of the best ever made. With the extra cans you can protect the paint longer and remove scratches and stains nicely. It is not worth full price, but look at the complete package...car, options, purchase price, etc., before you refuse an otherwise good car with this extra. Bargain tough...use Edmunds and KBB info...don't worry about the Toyoguard.
I got the toyota guard on my new Limited...the charge was $250. I got it because of the salt spray down here and the dealer assured me it would help to have the car undercoated, he also said the car is quieter with it. Might be baloney, I don't know but for the price it seemed like a good deal.
Sorry to bother you one more time my friend. Getting real close on a Limited. Are mud guards standard on the Limited? The parts people can't locate any for a Limited which seems to indicate they must be standard equipment? Thanks once again.
This is the real story.. SE Toyota Dist has the EXCLUSIVE rights in the SE region to buy ALL Toyotas from Toyota Sales. His company is not related to Toyota in any way. He then resells the Toyotas to each and every dealership in this region. He can do whatever he wants in terms of vehicle prep ( Toyoguard ) or accessories or markup. Obviously he cannot go crazy in adding these or nothing would sell. But with hot vehicles like the 05 Avalon ( and the Prius before that and the 04 Sienna before that ) the prices are normally higher than in other regions and rock-solid.... or... as in the case of the Prius the SE region just doesn't get as much inventory allocated to it ( his decision ?).
SE Toyota Dist. is a separate company and can do what it wants in it's own best interest.
SE Toy Dist also owns the port where the vehicles arrive and are prepped. It also owns its own finance company which competes with Toyota Motor Credit Corp for the consumer loans.
I would be interested to hear from posters here what they consider over the years has been the best wax they have applied to their cars that also gives it that high shine wet glossy look while protecting it. Thank you.
prime time, the mudguards are an option and available through the parts department With the car being so new they are probably not available yet. No bother, I'm happy to help. : ) Mackabee
Best wax I've ever used is any with a carnauba base. Especially on darker colors. I used to put that on my wife's 92 wineberry Camry. Still looked like it came out of the showroom years later. As far as the Toyoguard goes I imagine is similar to the stuff we sell up hear as the environmental protection package. This is good to have in areas where acid rain is a problem What you are buying mostly is a warranty to cover you in the event the acid rain chews through your paint. The vehicle will be repainted under this warranty. It usually runs for 5 years and considering the cost, about $499-699 depending on dealers may not be a bad thing. : ) Mackabee
I've been searching high and low and I really liked the results of Meguiars NXT Wax. Granted, I do more than just wax as I have an aresenal of products I use and even have a Porter Cable for the tasks.
I need to mention that I HATE, absolutely despise, swirl marks. I recommend using a quality polish to remove them.
Fitzgerald Toyota lists their paint sealant for $139. I used to really love a wax called Slipstream, originally intended for airplanes. My neighbor swears by something called Liquid Glass, available at Pep Boys; he says it requires two applications to be effective. Here in Virginia Beach Hammerhead Boat Works has gained local fame for their Cleaning Frenzy, supposedly made of "100% white Carnauba Brazilian wax." Intended for finicky boat owners, and supposedly works on cars too! They have a web site. I'll probably give it a try.
Thanks for the info, very interesting. Do you think that a dealer can specify that they want cars without port options? I'm just curious as to why some dealers in the SE have large inventories with very little or no port/regional options while other dealer's inventories are loaded with them.
I was backing my 2003 Avalon out of the garage this morning and accidently hit my driver's mirror against the garage. The casing shattered in pieces so it does not hold the mirror anymore. The dealer ordered a replacement based on the VIN but when I got there, it did not fit. Now the part needs to be ordered from Alabama and may arrive on Wednesday. It was an expensive day $229 or more for the part and $85 labor. While I was at the dealer in Plano, TX, I saw a 2005 Avalon light blue XL. The salesman was making a pitch to a fellow in his 30's who was trading in a Lexus. Later when I saw the fellow in the finance office, I asked did you buy the XL. He said no he bought the only other 2005 Avalon they had, a red touring model. I didn't have the nerve to ask how much he paid but knowing this dealer, I bet it was no less than MSRP.
If you are near Bucks County in PA Thompson Toyota of Doylestown PA on my 1st email ask for a quote gave me $1700 under MSRP on a Limited. I went to the showroom on Saturday without telling them I got a quote online and they said they are selling at MSRP. Probably can negotiate more online but haven't yet.
I use Meguiar's NXT on my 2004 Corvette and really like the results. It is very easy to apply and remove and leaves a lasting shine. You should be able to buy it at your local WalMart or Target.
While the NAV system in the new Avalon is not exactly like what I have in my XLE 2004 Camry, I'm sure this particular function - screen dimming - works similarly. When you turn your headlights on (not the DRL lights), the NAV screen automatically dims and causes no glare at all in the Camry. When the headlights are turned back off, the screen brightens to allow for the assumed daytime driving. On cloudy or rainy days, I use the DRL lamps so that the screen does not darken as it would if you turned on the actual headlamps. I hope that answers your question.
I know there are opposing camps on the issue of having NAV. I don't think I would buy another new car without it. I travel often and it is such a nice feature to have, so that you don't have to pull over and try to read a map at night.
It's nice to be driving in a strange area, you need gas in a bad way, but don't know where a station is or how close it is. With NAV, you just punch in "gas station", it pops up a list starting with the closest station to you. You pick Amoco, or whatever brand you like and it tells you how to get there.
At the risk of turning this site into a Zaino-head convention, I recommend all readers look at the Zaino forum. I have had great results with that product line. As a disclaimer, I am not a dealer or investor...just a customer for the last 5 years.
BUT, from the day we bought our Red 2000 Solara SLE, I've only used Zaino products. 5 years later we have no swirl marks and the car looks as good at 60,000 miles as the day we bought it. It takes a little time to use Zaino, but the results are (IMO) fabulous. I think there might even be a Zaino forum here at Edmunds, but I'm not sure. (I spend most of my time in the 2005 Avalon forum!) The spouse was skeptical, but even she admits that the shine and feel of the Zaino treatment is in a class by itself. I use Zaino on our 2004 XLE Camry. It's silver and doesn't look as awesome as the Red Solara when done, but it still looks darn good.
I replied to this in post 1801 but it got deleted as it was deemed as near solicitation by the hosts. I apologize as it was not my intent to do so. The post was explaining what TDA, Holdback, and Wholesale financial reserve are. TDA is a co-op charge levied to all dealers in a particular region to pay for regional TV ads and radio. Holdback is a charge that is shown on the invoice and the dealer pays this when the vehicles are ordered. If they are lucky and the car sells before ninety days, than it is returned to the dealer. After nintety days it's gone. There is a misconception among the buying public that dealer holdback is pure profit. Not so. Wholesale financial reserve is money that is used to help finance or "floor plan" the dealers inventory. It's best to negotiate from invoice to MSRP and find a common ground where both parties will be happy rather than focusing on these and that fee that is shown on the invoice. Toyota is the only manufacturer that itemizes these charges although other manufacturers have them but are not required to list them line by line. This came about due to a class action suit against Toyota Motor Sales USA out in California a few years back as some unscrupulous dealers were double charging customers on advertising fees. : ) Mackabee
I have heard a lot of praise about Zaino but have never tried it (due in part that they sell it via website to New Jersians) They are good if you don't have swirls. I heard that they don't remove swirls but maybe somebody can tell me if that's right or wrong.
I've used nothing but Meguiars. Granted, I have some other products including a Carnauba wax which I just for protecting headlights, foglights and tail lights. Also emblems and chrome.
I heard a lot of positive things about Liquid Glass too.
Our son drives a dark blue 1994 Camry (150,000 miles) that did have a good amount of swirl marks on it before we started using Zaino. We used the Z-5 product that was listed as a product that would eliminate much of the swirl marks. It took about 3 applications of the product and did a very good job when finished. It didn't do much for some pretty good scratches, but for the normal swirl marks, it seemed to work well.
We live in Illinois and I think the shipping charge is $8.95 whether you order one bottle or a whole carton. And that's the same charge to most other states. If you only order one item, that seems like a lot. But if you order a normal qty of product, $8.95 seems reasonable to me. There are also distributors in some states -- I am not one of them and I don't know any of them. I'm only a user.
I probably should try Meguiars or one of the others mentioned, but I've had such good results with Zaino, that I hate to change.
It sucks since, all of the continental US, NJ is the only state that being able to recieve from the website. Why is beyond me. There is actually a distributor but it's an hour drive north so I'll pass.
For Meguiars. A combination that mostly works 95% of the time of defect removal would be #83 followed by #80 then a wax of your choice. Also a clay bar should be used before polishing for any surface crap removal.
My 1995 Camry (in Forest Green Pearl) has never looked better. But I haven't polished it in a while and swirls are appearing during winter from pushing snow of the car and things like that.
I highly recommend it but #83 and others are professional level and usually used with a random orbital polisher.
This reply is also for barclay3 on post 1832. Once upon a time in another life I was a car salesman. You will find the dealers best price by being willing to buy the car now. He is not going to give you his best price and let you better the deal at a competitor As Macabee said - you start from the invoice and work up. Make your best offer and be willing to leave if it is not accepted. You may not buy the car but the dealer will likely give you his best price or close to his best price. You can always buy the car another day at another price. If Barclay took out his checkbook and offered the Internet price he would probably own the car. And too many people get mixed up in whether they are selling their old car or buying a new car.
Yes, the first Avalon I have driven was a red Touring. The color is very nice and dignified; not the red one would want on a Solara, but the dark and rich red one might not mind having for a family or business car. As for me, of the colors I have seen, the inidigo ink is best--even though it will show dust and dirt more. I have yet to see the green or light blue colors, but I don't think either would please me.
I'm approaching 1k miles on my new Avalon so I went looking for oil filters. I tried 3 online toyota parts places and my 2 most local dealerships. None have the oil filters in stock, yet. The place I usually buy from thinks they should have some in for me on Tuesday. I should get them Friday.
I almost always change oil&filter @ 1k and again @ 5k then every 5k after that. At 10k I'll switch oil to Mobil1.
If anyone else wants to use Toyota filters I suggest you plan ahead and make sure you can get them for when you want.
My local garage gives me a great deal on labor for oil changes. I supply the oil & filter and he charges me a flat 10 bucks. I can't get dirty for that price.
Thank you to those who answered my question regarding name of wax. The Meguiar's NXT is what I was told by other people but thought i would check it out here. I used to use the Toyo Guard, but my dealer no longer has it, it was very easy to apply and wipe off, but will buy the Meguiar's NXT. Thanks for all your answers. Mikes, funny I also change the oil after the first 1,000 miles because of machine filings that I heard about when I was real young, but was told you don't have to be concerned about that anymore but you can't teach an old dog new tricks, so 1,000 miles and for me every 3,000 after that. Macabee, I ordered mud guards for my new Avalon, they got back in, but was told there will be colored keyed ones, so I will wait, they aren't as you said available yet, but have them on order.
Well after waiting for 6 months to buy a car until the avalon came out, we've decided to pass. We test drove an XLS three times and here were my (and some of my wife's) impressions:
1. Exterior - nice, but not blow you out of the water nice. 2. Interior - very nice. Before I read it in the review poster here, however, I did mention to my wife that I didn't like the "seams" on the dash around the AC vents. Other than the seams, the interior quality was excellent. I did have a little concern about the "doors" on the radio/tape getting busted - my 10 year old thought they were pretty cool, however. 3. Power - it has a lot of power...I just am not use to a car that, when you floor it, it doesn't rocket off...rather its a smooth, albeit, fast increase. I assume this is the drive by wire feature. I did not notice any throttle lag, however. 4. Ride - near perfect. Quiet, smooth, comfortable. I'd say nicer than the ES330 we tried a few months ago.
If we didn't live in snow (and hill) country, we probably would have bought it. However, in the end, my wife decided she couldn't live without AWD (we also have a steep driveway). I can't live with a Ford (500), so we decided to get her a highlander.
Now, please forgive me for asking here, but this board is active (and the HL board isn't). I live in Washington, and am working with a dealer in California. Does anyone know if highlanders (or avalons) in california have different emission equipment than ones elsewhere in the country? One local dealer told me that cars from CA get worse milage b/c of CA emission standards, but when I was buying my Sequoia, a lot of "out of state" folks bought from one of the big so cal dealers.
Coug, that was a very nice post by you. You stated your reasons for not buying the Avalon and presented the facts and impressions without trashing for the sake of trashing. I respect that and wish you good luck with your Highlander.
Comments
I live in west-central Florida, and the local dealers will not budge from this rip-off.
I'm going north to buy my new Limited.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0412_mojo/
Cheers!
: )
Mackabee
SE Toyota Dist has the EXCLUSIVE rights in the SE region to buy ALL Toyotas from Toyota Sales. His company is not related to Toyota in any way. He then resells the Toyotas to each and every dealership in this region. He can do whatever he wants in terms of vehicle prep ( Toyoguard ) or accessories or markup. Obviously he cannot go crazy in adding these or nothing would sell. But with hot vehicles like the 05 Avalon ( and the Prius before that and the 04 Sienna before that ) the prices are normally higher than in other regions and rock-solid.... or... as in the case of the Prius the SE region just doesn't get as much inventory allocated to it ( his decision ?).
SE Toyota Dist. is a separate company and can do what it wants in it's own best interest.
SE Toy Dist also owns the port where the vehicles arrive and are prepped. It also owns its own finance company which competes with Toyota Motor Credit Corp for the consumer loans.
: )
Mackabee
Best wax I've ever used is any with a carnauba base. Especially on darker colors. I used to put that on my wife's 92 wineberry Camry. Still looked like it came out of the showroom years later. As far as the Toyoguard goes I imagine is similar to the stuff we sell up hear as the environmental protection package. This is good to have in areas where acid rain is a problem What you are buying mostly is a warranty to cover you in the event the acid rain chews through your paint. The vehicle will be repainted under this warranty. It usually runs for 5 years and considering the cost, about $499-699 depending on dealers may not be a bad thing.
: )
Mackabee
I need to mention that I HATE, absolutely despise, swirl marks. I recommend using a quality polish to remove them.
I used to really love a wax called Slipstream, originally intended for airplanes. My neighbor swears by something called Liquid Glass, available at Pep Boys; he says it requires two applications to be effective. Here in Virginia Beach Hammerhead Boat Works has gained local fame for their Cleaning Frenzy, supposedly made of "100% white Carnauba Brazilian wax." Intended for finicky boat owners, and supposedly works on cars too! They have a web site. I'll probably give it a try.
I know there are opposing camps on the issue of having NAV. I don't think I would buy another new car without it. I travel often and it is such a nice feature to have, so that you don't have to pull over and try to read a map at night.
It's nice to be driving in a strange area, you need gas in a bad way, but don't know where a station is or how close it is. With NAV, you just punch in "gas station", it pops up a list starting with the closest station to you. You pick Amoco, or whatever brand you like and it tells you how to get there.
BUT, from the day we bought our Red 2000 Solara SLE, I've only used Zaino products. 5 years later we have no swirl marks and the car looks as good at 60,000 miles as the day we bought it. It takes a little time to use Zaino, but the results are (IMO) fabulous. I think there might even be a Zaino forum here at Edmunds, but I'm not sure. (I spend most of my time in the 2005 Avalon forum!) The spouse was skeptical, but even she admits that the shine and feel of the Zaino treatment is in a class by itself. I use Zaino on our 2004 XLE Camry. It's silver and doesn't look as awesome as the Red Solara when done, but it still looks darn good.
: )
Mackabee
I've used nothing but Meguiars. Granted, I have some other products including a Carnauba wax which I just for protecting headlights, foglights and tail lights. Also emblems and chrome.
I heard a lot of positive things about Liquid Glass too.
We live in Illinois and I think the shipping charge is $8.95 whether you order one bottle or a whole carton. And that's the same charge to most other states. If you only order one item, that seems like a lot. But if you order a normal qty of product, $8.95 seems reasonable to me. There are also distributors in some states -- I am not one of them and I don't know any of them. I'm only a user.
I probably should try Meguiars or one of the others mentioned, but I've had such good results with Zaino, that I hate to change.
For Meguiars. A combination that mostly works 95% of the time of defect removal would be #83 followed by #80 then a wax of your choice. Also a clay bar should be used before polishing for any surface crap removal.
My 1995 Camry (in Forest Green Pearl) has never looked better. But I haven't polished it in a while and swirls are appearing during winter from pushing snow of the car and things like that.
I highly recommend it but #83 and others are professional level and usually used with a random orbital polisher.
Nav
VSC
Toyoguard
Z1 package
Spoiler
Sunroof Screen
Not bad ... huh? Paid tooooo much!
If I waited after the stupid hupla -- probably in a month or two -- buy the car at invoice
+ $500. -- Just a 'ho. At invoice by August.
I almost always change oil&filter @ 1k and again @ 5k then every 5k after that. At 10k I'll switch oil to Mobil1.
If anyone else wants to use Toyota filters I suggest you plan ahead and make sure you can get them for when you want.
My local garage gives me a great deal on labor for oil changes. I supply the oil & filter and he charges me a flat 10 bucks. I can't get dirty for that price.
MikeS.
MikeS.
Well after waiting for 6 months to buy a car until the avalon came out, we've decided to pass. We test drove an XLS three times and here were my (and some of my wife's) impressions:
1. Exterior - nice, but not blow you out of the water nice.
2. Interior - very nice. Before I read it in the review poster here, however, I did mention to my wife that I didn't like the "seams" on the dash around the AC vents. Other than the seams, the interior quality was excellent. I did have a little concern about the "doors" on the radio/tape getting busted - my 10 year old thought they were pretty cool, however.
3. Power - it has a lot of power...I just am not use to a car that, when you floor it, it doesn't rocket off...rather its a smooth, albeit, fast increase. I assume this is the drive by wire feature. I did not notice any throttle lag, however.
4. Ride - near perfect. Quiet, smooth, comfortable. I'd say nicer than the ES330 we tried a few months ago.
If we didn't live in snow (and hill) country, we probably would have bought it. However, in the end, my wife decided she couldn't live without AWD (we also have a steep driveway). I can't live with a Ford (500), so we decided to get her a highlander.
Now, please forgive me for asking here, but this board is active (and the HL board isn't). I live in Washington, and am working with a dealer in California. Does anyone know if highlanders (or avalons) in california have different emission equipment than ones elsewhere in the country? One local dealer told me that cars from CA get worse milage b/c of CA emission standards, but when I was buying my Sequoia, a lot of "out of state" folks bought from one of the big so cal dealers.
: )
Mackabee