Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL

cheerioboy26

I'm guessing Infiniti is at least satisfied with the sedan sales numbers, since after two years on the market they just hit a record in March. fwiw.

jrock65

I think what jpiatchek is saying is that a lot of G35 Coupe buyers would have bought the sedan if the coupe weren't available. You can see many examples of this at the Nissan/Infinti forums. In a sense, the G35 Coupe is hurting the sedan sales. How much, one would never know.

Put another way, the TL sedan would certainly sell less if there was a hot looking coupe version of it, as quite a few would-be sedan buyers would have chosen the coupe instead.

The RSX certainly isn't taking any sales away from the TL. The TSX might be, but not much.

Personally, I'm interested in sales numbers to see industry trends and gauge general popularity. But, I would not say that higher sales mean that it's a "better" overall car. There are just too many other variables that translate into higher sales figures.

danny1878

1. G35 is cheaper--Not so, most mags acknowledge that equipped the same way the G35 is several hundred dollars more expensive
You misunderstood me by cutting my sentences. I said You can get G35 cheaper than TL. Do your research on base prices of both. With A-spec, TL would be around 40k.

2. Infiniti had been acknowledged as almost a joke in the marketing and advertising department--check out the Edmunds Infiniti site
TL outsell any car in this segment, with or without extensive marketing strategy/plan or with/out stupid marketing dept..
Blame it on the rain, if your product dont sell as much as others. Anyway Acura appears less on TV than Infiniti but still can smoke any brand even Lexus. Why?

Infiniti has fumbled and bumbled and not known what they've wanted to be from day one.
I dont wanna buy a product from a company who dont even know what they want from day one. They dont even know about quiet ride, comfort, nice interior/exterior, new technology/features, faster engine/hp.

I respect your opinion about Q45/G35 but you cannot change the majority's opinion. To each his own.

If the product is really good, people are willing to travel. Even BMW has Overseas delivery program. Why? bcuz they have good products. People are willing to travel to get a BMW.

Now its about dealership, next is about the salesman, after that maybe underwear. lol. peace :-)

iwantonetoo

"If any of these so call RWD experts have been to any Formula One Racing, they know pretty much that the experts take it easy on the corners.
I don't see them throwing their rear axel around corners at 145 mph. "

A Formula 1 car will corner at well over 3gs, I would hardly call this taking it easy on the corners, and this is after slowing down with braking forces approaching 4gs!

kdshapiro

"In a sense, the G35 Coupe is hurting the sedan sales. How much, one would never know."

Boy is that ever a connumdrum for all manufacturers. MacD's offers a new type of Chicken Sandwich, is it stealing sales from the classic hamburger. Not if the customer hates hamburgers though. But it brought a customer in that may have never tried a MacD's product.

I think you can say the same thing with Infiniti. Someone who bought the coupe may have never been interested in the sedan and Infiniti got a new customer.

macroorchids

For those of you going through the same thing that i am, here are my thoughts after having just test driven both cars and then some. i narrowed my choices to g35 and tl from a pool of c230k, 325i, a4, passat, altima, accord, s60, tsx. In short, i must admit that i prefer the tl. I was strongly considering both but i have decided to go with the tl. I will beak down the reasoning for you.

Aesthetics: i prefer the tl's unique exterior to the more conservative g35s. On the inside of the car, its not even close. The tl is much more attractive and the materials feel much better to the touch. I would stack it up with vw/audi in terms of interior design and quality. ergonomically, the tl is also superior to the g35. Button placement and tactile feel on the g35 does not compare to tl. Just as an fyi, i never could figure out why infiniti would put the stereo volume and temp controls on the passenger side of the center console. I spoke with a sales manager who informed me that it was because they lifted the center console straight from the right hand drive version of the car. He admitted it to be a cost cutting measure. Quite dissappointing in my mind. I also dislike the toggle buttons for volume and ac temp.

Performance (auto vs. auto): g35 has more low end punch and accel. is more controlled (especially going around corners and accelerating). Tl starts off slower than as rpms increase, picks up like a bat outta you know where. I could definitely feel the front wheels struggle to put the power down a little bit around corners (torque steer). going straight was not as bad of a problem under heavy accel.though. This however was mild. Not as bad as the altima 2005 that i tested. That thing would torque steer going in a straight line pretty obviously. Ultimately, i feel g35 is better performance drivng car. However, not by much. I have also read in c&d and consumer reports that g35 tail can slide out rather easily, which may or may not be good depending on what you want.

Stereo: It may or may not be important to you but was quite important to me. I consider myself an audiophile. I have started an audio club in college and have worked in the audio industry. For my ear, the tl stereo was not only leagues better than g35, it was one of the best i have ever heard. Very, very smooth. Bass not boomy (i hate that) and very accurate. Highs and mids close to transparent. Almost as good as my reference home system. This is a very very accurate system. Very very impressive. g35 bose stereo was awful. Very muddy and uncontrolled bass response. Its not just a g35 thing either, the tsx, 330i, c230k, altima, and a4 all have dissappointing stereos.

Dealerships: infiniti has loaner cars for scheduled maintenance which acura doesnt have. Both with loan cars for warranty repairs though.

Cost: g35 with premium and sport is equal in price to tl auto non-navi from where i shopped.

conclusion: i am choosing tl. my arguement is that i plan to spend more time in the interior than i will be performance driving. i do not plan to take car on track so g35s performance advantage is not so big to me. In fact i believe that both cars are more than enough for 99% of the drivers out there for real world driving. fwd tl is better for people who live in snow states also for the increase traction. These are my opinions after car shopping for the past 3 months. Take it for what its worth.

mdhauke

Kind of like we've been tired of Lexus drivers and BMW yuppies for years on end saying: "that use every type of insane logic to justify that this car is God's gift to the automotive world. It's kind of the old "my Daddy can beat up your Daddy""

jpiatchek

I like what you have to say. Sounds like you picked the one that is best for you. I bought the TL for many of the same reasons you did, and I agree with you. I place a little more emphasis on performance that you, but I have other vehicles that can do this for me. Most of my days are spent in a coat and tie and in that environment the TL performs well. After work and weekends there are times I wish I had the G35for it's handling prowess. I sold an M3 to buy the Tl and I miss it. Overall, though, I'm glad I have the TL.I still have a couple of other vehicles that will outrun the TL and the G35 anyway. I feel also that the G35 interior is on the cheap side. I agree with you about the radio. I test drive most of the new vechicles when they come out each year and I drive them hard. I've owned 160 vehicles and this is my first Acura. Frankly until the new TL and the 6speed, they have never had enough sport sedan in them. They are moving in the right direction with the TL. I absolutely would not have bought it without the 6speed. Anyway, I like you reasoning and agree both are great cars.

jpiatchek

I hear what you're saying. It's obnoxious from whereever it comes. Personally, I never met a car I didn't like in some way. A number of us Tl owners are starting to sound the same way. The more avid and less reasonable in their logic they get, the less proud it makes me to own one. Hey, let's face it, this is the first time Acura has come out with a real sporting midsize sedan. I guese some of the owners(on both sides) are getting overzealous in their enthusiasm. Frankly, if most of the most vocal would spend more time test driving with an open mind other competetive brands,(much like machroorchids has done) they would see we have more competition and fine sporting sedans than any time in history. It doesn't get much better and I'm tired of hearing"my daddy can beat up your daddy "logic everywhere I go, and yes, particularly from TL owners.

jpiatchek

Ya, Danny, you're right. Acura can smoke everybody. They are elsupremo on everything. They are the only ones that know good technology-certainly Infiniti and the others have none of that. THEY HAVE BEEN BUILDING THE BEST TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED SPORTING SEDANS FOR LONGER THAN ANYONE ELSE---RIGHT? Keep up your delusions. Danny, if you spent half as much time test driving the competition as you do bad-mouthing them, perhaps you would be a little bit more informed. I'm glad you weren't the salesman selling me my TL or I would have gone elsewhere. You are dyed-in-the-wool Acura and there seems to be no way to cure it. I wonder when you bleed, if your blood comes out in Acura TL logos?

danny1878

1. TL does outsell any car in this segment. It smokes them bad.
2. Noone says TL is the elsupremo, but in sales yes. Assumption or delusions?
3. Noone says TL has the best technologically advanced sporting sedan. Assumptions or delusions?
4. I dont sell cars and I'm not a salesman. But I do C#/VB.net.
5. This is my first Acura
6. This is only a discussion, you can have your opinion, it doesnt have to be the same as mine. And you dont have to be angry, we r adults.
7. Nobody tries to impress nobody, especially 'makes me proud of owning one'.
8. Can you tell me when/where I said TL is the best car compared to everycar in this segment? Make sure its not your assumptions.

Peace, chill out, dont beat my daddy :-)

danny1878

Did I say TL is the king of this segment? lol.

And I have never said G35 isnt a good car either. I can admit that BMW is a good product. I even love G35 coupe.

I can agree with jrock at anytime and anyday, I wish you'd do the same.

seekperfectcar

I too have spent the last couple of months looking at vehicles and came to the TL and G35. Having read your post, I actually opted the other way, buying the G35. No doubt both are very good cars, and the difference between them is not that much really, so it was hard to decide.

The reasons I did not choose the TL are strictly good for me, not reasons that might fit someone else. Being over 6 ft, the first thing I do when I look at a car is get in, adjust the drivers seat, get out and try to sit behind me (my son is almost as big as me). The G35 won this test. Also, when I sat in the back, the seats in the TL seemed big (from the back) to the point where I felt they sort of isolated the back from the front, not a lot, but enough to make me think of it. Also felt the car more wrapped around me in the TL driver seat, which could be nice, or feel too tight, depending on my mood that ride.

The TL has a stiffer ride than the G35 IMO, not excessively so but stiff to the point where it stepped over my ambiguous luxury/sport preferred balance line. There is more bang for the buck in the TL (in terms of toys/operator technology) with the voice activation and NAV, and I would have liked to get the NAV in the G35 but I'd never use it, in either car, so for me, it did not factor in. I live in Toronto area and the TL NAV was amazingly accurate when I drove it. They both rated equal (to me) in styling and appeal. For HP, anything over 250 becomes just numbers to me.

But what really sold me on the G35, was the AWD. and I HATE AWD, or at least never had it as important on my list. I tested it during my test drive and it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen or felt a car do! After the sales guy went on and on about it moving from 100% rear to 50/50 about 16 times a second, I warned the him I was going to test it and on a corner with gravel decided to try to slide it a bit. Well even with my foot pressing the gas pedal, the computer reduced the RPM's, the wheels did some wiggle waggle control thing, the car stayed straight, found its way off the gravel and immediately gave me 260HP, boom. WOW! I was impressed.

My $0.02.

lmacmil

to seekperfectcar and macroorchids for their very lucid explanations of why they chose one over the other. That's what this forum should be all about.

jpiatchek

I agree with you. Boy, this agreement stuff is getting scary!LOL

jpiatchek

I know you are not a salesman. What I really took issue with was when you stated."They(Infiniti) don't know about quiet ride, comfort, nice interior/exterior, new technology/features, faster engine/hp" I Don't think that was a delusion. If I misinterpreted, my bad. However, if you meant that then we have a long way to go until we ever get agreement, because Infiniti has all of these in spades. If you put their product line against Acura, you will find they are far ahead in most of these areas. If you meant the TL and the G35, then we can debate. Remember, I bought a Tl and I like it, so I am not putting it down, I just take issue with a number of the things you say or maybe the way you say it with the short sentences. I think I am reasonbly informed on Infiniti in that I also own a FX35 tech and it has more technology than about anything on the market(whether or not you like the FX or not). I've also owned 4 Q45's. No big deal, but when you make statements like that I've been around them long enough that I know it just ain't so. I don't have much disagreement with most of what is said on this board, other than some of the statements you've made. Sometimes I feel they are so biased and off base that I just can't resist. Anyway we have done a good job of stirring the pot and the activity has sure picked up on this thread.

pg48477

You seem like a reasonable man, if you have both TL and FX in your garage. But your last post puzzled me a bit, FX does not offer more technology that any other SUV. It does have a rear view camera and AWD, similar if not the same as G35, which is not suitable for SUV but for performance sedan, like the one Subaru use for WRX( brilliant system, but not for SUV). Off road Fx is one of the worse SUV's, and it does not have any room. I have to say interior of FX way better than any other Infiniti vehicle.

jpiatchek

I did not buy the Fx for it's off road capability, nor have any of the other owners I know of.It will not go off road, nor will the vast majority of all SUV's. I did not buy it because it is an SUV, infact, I normally detest SUV's and what they stand for. Most of us bought them because we were looking for a dynamic sports sedan that had some extra room and utility. It has much more technology than AWD and rear view camera. You would be amazed if you looked into it. I drive most of the new vehicles and sport SUV's and read and study everything I can get my hands on. The FX is one of the most exciting, great handling, good looking(debateable) moderately priced vehicles of any type on the market. I've owned 165 vehicles(I'm not a dealer---my wife says I have a disease), so I have a pretty good perspective of what's out there. I will not go in to all the technological merits of the Fx because this is not the thread. My two previous vehicles were a BMW M3 and a BMW 540i sport. I prefer the FX over the 540i and it doesn't get much better than that. I would be glad to debate you on the merits of the technology of the FX over in the FX site. Before doing so, I suggest you read the reports, study the brochures and read the posts. People are selling Cayenne's and G35 coupes to buy them. They are not for everyone. I look at it more as a sport wagon than SUV. The Tl is smoother and quieter, but if I want to raise hell and do the corners, I take the FX. In the spirit of this thread, you will hear no more from me about the FX.

danny1878

I dont wanna buy a product from a company who dont even know what they want from day one. They dont even know about quiet ride, comfort, nice interior/exterior, new technology/features, faster engine/hp.

Cool, I didnt mean Infiniti but any manufacturer(in general) who doesnt know anything from day one, my bad. I didnt write Infiniti thou.

If you read my posts, usually I only respond to what other people say about 'how bad TL is'.

Anyway we did stir the pot lol. :-)

chrisboth

"Do you think manufacturers and dealers are in the business to see less of their products on the street? That tells me how much you know about business"

The manufacturers have a break even point that they must meet to even make the platform plausible. These figures and the initial sales expectations are somewhat public and every model has met or exceeded expectations. Tell me if you know about business....what part of the beating your own expectations is a business failure.

When one platform singlehandedly revives a company and makes it viable to compete into the next decade with all the big boys on equal footing - thats sucess defined and it should be a case study in biz school. Take a look a Nissan sales and profit growth compared to honda. See for yourself and try that GMAT again.

billyperks

that the G35 turned around Nissan sales in terms of profit?

I really find that hard to believe- show me some proof/literature.

As for the GMAT I will pass on that, I am going to give the CFA a try in the near furture.

chrisboth

Hey good luck with CFA - i have 2 parts down - what a bear.

This platform is in the Z; Z roadster, FX35, FX345, 3 G's and a ham sandwhich.

Look i dont have all the hundreds of snippets in front of me that concern the recent viability of Infiniti and Nissans overall success. It's cetainly more than the FM platform as the altima sells well and truck sales are there too with Titan. BUT as for Infiniti which sells the FM in FX and G, I will say INfiniti would be dead without them and NIssan would not have the same level of muti-level market penetration that toyota and honda have. I believe its very apparent that automakers succeed over the long haul by luring you while young with a small car and locking you into thier products for life - you must have a lux product for them to step into or the sales with real margins go to lexus merc and bmw and even caddy/lincoln. Theres more to it than what one can read in financial statements.

I'd like to see some shred from somewhere that even suggests any lack of success for the paltform or Nissan/Inf in general. I haven't seen any in quite a while and regardless when products turn heads, sell at a premium, drive other product sales, create profit (have you seen the margin grwoth), its not a failure and comparing unit to unit sales is fruitless as we were with TL.

cheerioboy26

This is for the fiscal year ending 3/31/03. Nissan will report results for the year ending 3/31/04 in May I believe.

http://tinyurl.com/2yutr

"Consolidated operating profit improved by 50.7% – from 489.2 billion yen in fiscal year 2001 to a record 737.2 billion yen (US $6.04 billion, euro 6.25 billion) in fiscal year 2002. As a percentage of net sales, the operating profit margin reached 10.8%, which is the highest operating profit margin in the global automotive industry."

jrock65

"As a percentage of net sales, the operating profit margin reached 10.8%, which is the highest operating profit margin in the global automotive industry."

Uh oh, you shouldn't have posted that. Now we're going to have many posts saying that the profits came at the expense of cheap interiors.

jpiatchek

THose are pretty amazing numbers. Even if they were produced by Yugo, that would be impressive!

lmacmil

for Nissan's turnaround. He's probably done more for an automotive company than anyone since Iacocca revived Chrysler. Nissan sales were up 36% in the 1st quarter and Infiniti up 17.5%.

jpiatchek

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that. Wonder how that compares to their peer group? I would assume acura has to be up, too?

kahunah

...as of March 2004 where up 26.8%, over same time last year. The TL alone accounted for a whopping 43.6% increase, hitting an all time record high of 7,310 units last month!

lmacmil

I probably should have tried the TL but it's more than I'm willing to spend so I didn't bother. The TSX was nice but lack of low end torque was very noticeable with the automatic (they didn't have a manual available.) No opportunity to check out the handling but the ride was decent.

I did see a couple of TLs this weekend and they are even sexier "in person" than in the pictures.

cheerioboy26

lol. In some ways, the comments about the profits and interiors are valid - of course if they spent $200 more per car on the interiors they wouldn't have the same profit level - sell a couple million cars worldwide and the $200 adds up quick. However, it's only the last 2 years Nissan came back from the brink and became profitable. Going forward from now is they way Nissan proves what type of company they want to be. They have the money to have a great interior, exterior, etc. They whole package. And most would agree that all they need to do is to improve the interior. Early reports indicate that the 05 Altima is a step in the right direction, and supposedly the 05 G35 is next.

jrock65

cheerio,

Definitely agree there. Let's see what they bring out with the '05 G35. The M interior looks very promising as well. Keeping my fingers crossed.

electronik

I'm new here, glad to meet you all.
I am considering the G or the TL and I have just started following this forum. There seems to be a lot of good feedback from both sides of the equation. However, I have one question, for the TL owners: Why insist that the FWD TL handles just as good as the G? I mean do you really believe that a car with a 62-38 weight distribution ratio as good on the road as a car with 52-48 % ratio?
I currently own 03 Max, and while the car is great, it exhibits torque steer and does not allow taking sharp corners due to the FWD limitations and the fact that is also front heavy, just like the TL. (Accords have the same problems too). The only car magazine to place G35 behind the TL is Car and Driver, and if you follow their coverage, you’ll notice that they always were biased against Nissan/Infiniti. They scored Accord as #1 every test they make, that should be enough of a clue as to where they stand. Just as Edmunds is biased toward BMW and VW Passat, even though they still praise G35 for its spirited driving ability. Motor Trend has placed TL behind G35, and the Caddy (can you imagine that?)
The fact is, and it is an engineering fact, that FWD cars will never handle as good as RWD cars, period. I am not saying that TL lacks in handling, but it is physically impossible to compare these two cars – just like I cannot compare my Maxima to the 350Z that I test drove the other day – it’s a day and Night difference. However, I think that TL is a lot more attractive then the G35 (again it’s a personal preference).
So I am at the cross roads right now.
Just my 0.02
Reagrds

95gt

I don't think anyone thinks the TL handles 100% as well as the G. But i think most people believe at 8/10 ths they are so close that 95% of the drivers wont notice any decrease in performance.

These cars compete head to head on price,performance etc. They are very similar and really the choice comes down to personal preference on styling and priorities (All weather/interior vs performance/RWD feel). Both are excellent choices.

danny1878

95gt is right. RWD is always better in handling and driver also one of the factors.

Take an accord to a sharp corner (30mph limit) and try 40-45mph when entering and accelerate as fast as you can, you will find torque steer. But try it with TL, go with 55-60mph and accelerate, you will find little torque steer(still exist), IMO LSD, VSA, and TCS have something to do with it. I dont know whether your maxima has it or not.

Of course with RWD you can go more than that. but the question is by how much is the difference.

If you like doing that, go with G35. You wont regret it.

mdhauke

Looks like your all about the performance and made up your mind. What do you want from the TL owners? Ask specific questions.

jpiatchek

Good post! Are we starting to agree on stuff? How boring. Keep up the good work. They are both great cars in different ways! Five years ago we didn't have these choices. I love this country!

danny1878

but you got to admit that TL is the only FWD that stand up against the impossible. Things will change if SH-AWD TL comes into the market, lets see. :-)

One other thing, besides handling, I think TL won almost on everything. Some maybe a matter of preference but overall, TL has convinced more people to buy than any other car in this segment($32k-40k car's market).

electronik

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the feedback, good to see this forum is alive.
I have questions for TL owners:
Did you experience any problems with the auto transmission? I know that in the past Acuras were known for transmission problems, is this still a factor?
That is the only concern I have with the TL, as far as the interior, it beats G35 hands down. It will be interesting to see the AWD version of TL, but I cannot wait anymore,
I need to get one soon. Still did not decide on G or TL, I guess it depends on which dealer has better customer service. I wish they dropped TL’s body and interior on G’s frame and engine - this would be an absolute winner.

pisciotta

car and driver,road and track, motor trend !!!
all picked the g35 over the TL and the BMW period!!!
and I test drove all three and agree!!! G35 WINS HANDS DOWN!!!

danny1878

the problem is more people buy and trust the TL than G35. I guess they believe Consumer report, motoring TV, Motor week better than those magazines. lol.

elektronik, I haven't heard any tranny problem so far for TL'04. Its true for the prev. generation of TL, but the new TL's tranny is different.

chrisboth

Motor week wasn't that nice to the TL were they - i remembered the understeer comment and that it wouldn't live up to high sports sedan expectations. That may have been one of several other speed channel programs tho.

pisciotta

its not a matter of trust but a matter of which car drives better isnt it....lol I trust my mother but I wouldnt date her......lol

danny1878

G35 might drive better thru corner, but in real world of more straight roads and traffic, good looks, quietness, High quality audio, luxurious interior,faster 0-60 and features are so much better in real world driving experience. In fact Handling is the only thing G35 can brag about, Have you ever heard anything else besides that? :-)

Dont trust me, just ask your mom! lol

mdhauke

Elect, all the tran issues have dealt with the older generation. There haven't been any trans problems with the new TL.

maxcoop727

Bottom Line: Both cars are FANTASTIC, particularly for the money...

+++G-35 Pluses:
handles better. period. (even weight distribution)
behaves more like a sports car (engine growls)
Leather seats are softer
Larger fuel tank and range
Dual glove box compartments are great

+++TL Pluses:
Sound system is infinitely superior
Engine is smoother, quieter
Interior luxury blows away the G-35
Interior dash lighting is awesome

---G-35 Irritations:
Volume control is a rocker switch instead of knob
Brakes are touchy and wear fast (Infiniti will replace prior to 30K miles)
One touch windows too touchy and hard to stop
Memory seat, mirror, and trunk latch controls are inconveniently located

---TL Irritations
needs a compass in the non-NAV version
needs a fast forward on the CD player
fuel door un-locking mechanism is cheap (same as civic)
lights cast an uneven and pattern at night on low beam (mechanic said this is normal)
Outside temperature gauge is wildly inaccurate (location?)

Both these cars are winners.

danny1878

TL's outside temperature is approx. 6 degrees higher after turning on the engine.

Good post!

jjabbytaylor

You can fast forward on the CD player in the '04 TL by holding down the Seek + button on the radio, and you can fast reverse using the Seek - button.

This isn't documented in the manual. I found it out by fooling around. You can also pause playback by pressing the button corresponding to the current disc playing.

Jeff

95gt

Good post overall. Agree with most.

TL gets a good deal better gas mileage so having a bigger tank might mean less fill ups you are paying a lot more because of the poorer gas mileage.

G35 engine also a little torquier which is nice in a sports sedan.

cjs2002

my uncle just got a G and he loves it... I' was debating between the G and the TL for the longest time but I believe Ive come to a conclusion... the TL is for me (I hope) my uncle is rather excited because at the time he got his G the TL wasn't out yet... and he didn't want to wait so he got the G... which he still loves but he says he wishes he would have waited just so he could be sure... so I'm going out there with my TL after I get it and he's gonna get to see it... plus I get to fool around with the G... (mainly love that car because I can peel out in it.. I found it difficult to actually peel out in the TL i can make the tires chirp but not peel out... or am I just not doing it right... then again I shouldn"t be doing it at all but its fun every once in a while to let loose

electronik

What were the main factors, that you have contributed to your
decision to pick TL? I have a hard time deciding myself.
Love the TL for it's design and interior, hate it for having FWD.
I rather have 3.5 VQ in my car, just because it is the best V6 engine ever built.(IMO)