Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • eandlcubedeandlcubed Member Posts: 78
    i went to the mini website, the usa version is lots of fun. the international site has a few movies for download. the toyota one is just informational.

    just out of curiosity, my '02 prius gave me no problem so far. does anyone with the first year model encounter any problem. i know the first year model has problem with the gas tank and premature tire wear.

    since i can't test drive the new prius yet, all of your comments weighed in my decision. thanks for the great inputs....
  • eandlcubedeandlcubed Member Posts: 78
    your name sounds so familiar to me (after you mentioned a mercedes). did you own a mercedes wagon in the past and was looking for the amg body kit?
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    eandlcubed, nope, different person. Enjoy this weird selection process - both cars are different and neither is boring. You're not going to make a "wrong" decision. If you drive the Prius, please come back here and report your impressions.

    - Mark
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    see mrvadeboncoeur Oct 10, 2003 10:34am (message 595 on this board)
    $19995 base MSRP
    +$5245 package 9 BC MSRP
    + 515 DPH fee for most of US (higher in southeast states)
    ------
    $25755
    + 262 MSRP for "Preferred Acessory Package" Z1 (cargo net, first aid kit, carpeted floor and cargo mats)
    ------
    $26017 see this loaded Prius' window sticker: http://www2.kluge.net/2004/hg-Pages/Image28.html

    what else did this dealer add on to get the Prius
    over $27000? the "hard-to-find/high demand markup"?
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    Floor Mats, Carpet, 2004 Prius
    PT208-47045-10 Ivory PPO *1 CF
    PT208-47045-11 Dark Gray PPO *1 CF
    *1 Includes Trunk Mat

    Front End Mask
    TBD

    License Plate Frames by Grenada(r), all years/models
    PTS03-0001C Chrome License Plate Frame
    PTS03-0001G Gold License Plate Frame
    PTS03-000BK Black License Plate Frame

    Mirror, Auto-Dimming, 2004
    PT374-47040 With Homelink PPO N1

    Rear Bumper Applique, 2004
    PT747-47040 Rear Bumper Applique PPO EF

    Vehicle Intrusion Protection, 2004
    08586-47840 RS3200 Security System Upgrade *1 PPO V5
    08586-47840 GBS *2 PPO V2
    *1 Applicable to vehicles equipped with Factory Keyless Entry System.
    *2 Must be equipped with factory Security System.

    Wheel Locks, Alloy, 2002-2004
    00276-00900 14" Factory Alloy Clear Chrome PPO WL

    Ashtray, 2004
    08171-47800 Ashtray

    Audio, 2004
    08601-47800 6-Disc In-Dash Changer PPO P6
    08695-00370 Wire Harness *1
    08695-47800 Installation Kit *1
    *1 Required to complete installation

    Cargo Mat, 2004
    PT206-47040-11 Dark Gray PPO *1 CF
    PT206-47040-10 Ivory PPO *1 CF
    *1 Included in PPO CF with Carpet Floor Mats.

    Cargo Net, 2004
    PT347-47040 Cargo Net PPO GN

    Cargo Tote by Nifty Products, 2003-2004
    PTS07-00020-02 Black PPO 9G

    First Aid Kit, 2003-2004
    PT420-03023 First Aid Kit PPO 3Z
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Based only on my 30-minute test drive, half of which was on the highway, I'd have to say the Prius makes a fine highway cruiser--smooth highway ride without floatiness, straight and effortless tracking, quiet (just a bit of wind noise), and comfortable driving position. The audio system (upgrade) sounded good. Available nav system to keep you from getting lost, if you want to spring for that. Bluetooth phone so you can talk safely while you drive. Plus 50 mpg on the highway doesn't hurt, either. What else do you want in a highway cruiser? I'd say it's a good highway cruiser for up to four adults, or two adults and 3 kids.
  • dupiedupie Member Posts: 22
    Hi all:
    Just to confirm that the 2004 Prius is a good highway ride, I picked up our Prius on October 16 and took the freeway home, the steering and tracking were better then the 2001 Buick that I traded in with 21,000 miles on it. As for wind noise we did not notice any, seats are comfortable with plenty of leg room both front and back. This car is a keeper.
    dupie61
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Everything is subjective, but my comment about the Prius' highway manners has nothing to do with the Prius not being able to comfortably cruise on the highway; it has to do with comparing it with other $23K cars and how they cruise on the highway.

    I think in a back-to-back drive, you'd find that a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry (especially with a V6) would be a much superior highway car: more weight, more power, more room, less noise, better NVH qualities, less vibration, better tracking, better acceleration, and a better ride. This has mostly do to with the physics of a 2900 lb car vs. a 3300 lb car. I'm sure some would disagree, but I would never recommend a Prius as a great choice for someone taking long trips unless fuel economy was paramount. I'll let it go at that.

    - Mark
  • eandlcubedeandlcubed Member Posts: 78
    i don't think many drivers out there with an automatic being a traditional or a cvt gear would ever downshift their cars to get immediate reaction anyway. they just punch the gas and let the car does what it does. i punched the gas on my classic prius many times on freeways and it seems to do fine.
    putting the car in "b" is using engine braking. i don't think it is advisable to drive in "b" mode for a long time. and midnightcowboy is correct that it is similar to shifting from "d" to "1" or "2" in a conventional car.
    and i am sure the opinions rendered here are skewed toward the likes of the new prius. when i first bought my '02, all i had were praises for the car. after owning it for 2 years, i found faults. for instant, the engine is loud and the interior seems louder now than when was new, the car sways in high wind, a few creaks here and there, seat is not quite comfy on longer trips (more than 2 hrs).
    i like the new prius because of its high tech gadgets. if toyota didn't revamp the prius, i would have placed my order on a new mini already but now i have a harder choice to make. thanks everyone for their impressions good or bad.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    On the flip side, for $23,000, a Camry isn't giving you impressive fuel economy or low pollution emission. Each car has its purpose.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > And some of the most well known posters on this thread do
    > not have any engineering knowledge or concept of how
    > physics or engineering really works.

    Posters here can easily join the "Prius_Technical_Stuff" group and read about how a feature works. Then they can recite that information, without needing the background you require.

     
    > By the way the "B" position will engage a lower effective CVT
    > gear and give you the same effect as using Drive 2 or drive
    > 1 on a conventional sautomatic

    The purpose or 1 & 2 is to prevent the transmission from shifting higher than that gear.

    "B" doesn't limit switching to a higher ratio, it just keeps the engine from disengaging.

     
    > this will also provide a HIGHER recharge to the Prius battery

    Those that have connected a meter to measure battery-pack status have proven otherwise, that there is no benefit beyond what you get in "D". In fact, they proved the opposite. Do you have info for the 2004 that states this has changed?

    JOHN
  • brwalterbrwalter Member Posts: 20
    My impressions:
    1) Power was more than enough for my needs. I took it on the interstate and had to be careful not to speed. There was power to spare for passing and merging. Not a problem here at all.
    2) Ergonomics--the speedometer is the best design I've ever seen. You don't have to look down at the dash and through the steering wheel; the number is right up there below the windshield, so you don't have to take your eyes off the road. This should become universal on cars. Everything else was user friendly; easy to master and use.
    3) Seats are well designed. Firmer than on a Camry, but I find the soft Camry seats fatiguing to the back after a while, even with lumbar support; the Prius seat would be better for me on a long trip. I liked the lumbar support. I would guess that some thought went into the ergonomics of the seat design, although I don't know anything about it.
    4) Good headroom. I found that the visors, ceiling, and sides were placed so that it's unlikely I would hit my head on them under force from a collision, and would never hit them in ordinary usage. This is opposite to our 1997 Taurus, which has (knock on wood) never had a collision, but too often I bump my head on the entrance or ceiling just in the course of getting in and out, and I'm only 5"10.
    5) Prius handling--very, very good.
    6) Very quiet.
    7) Good ride, by most standards. It doesn't insulate you from the road like a Camry. But what does? And oddly, in a Camry, a bad join in the road or a bump really jumps at you; here you don't notice it much. Of course, there's a tradeoff between ride softness and having body roll, and Camry has some of that.
    8) Prius looked good, better than in the pictures.
    9) Felt solid.
    10) There's something neat and space-agey about it that makes it exciting to be in.

    In short, I liked it a lot. My humble opinion. Those interested should certainly try it out.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    And some of the most well known posters on this thread do not have any engineering knowledge or concept of how physics or engineering really works.

    Neither is a Town Hall requirement, so of course not all posters here will have that expertise. And it is not required to share what we think about the 2004 Prius. As John pointed out, there is another board for the deep technical discussions.

    I think in a back-to-back drive, you'd find that a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry (especially with a V6) would be a much superior highway car: more weight, more power, more room, less noise, better NVH qualities, less vibration, better tracking, better acceleration, and a better ride.

    What does more weight, by itself, have to do with being a better highway cruiser? Does that mean that a Humvee is a better highway cruiser than a Camry? As for more power, the power requirement for a highway cruiser is that it gets you up to cruising speed safely and maintains that speed easily, and provides enough power for safe passing. I found the Prius has enough power for those actions. Having excess power, e.g. the V6 in a Camry or Accord vs. their fours, doesn't help much with cruising, but it will get you down the on-ramp a little faster. As for more room, the Prius has plenty of room for four adults, with the exception of rear head room being an issue for tall adults (over about 5'10"). It has about 5 cubic feet less than the Camry. As for noise, both the Camry and Prius are very quiet at cruise. I haven't driven a V6 Camry so I can't say whether it is markedly quieter at cruise than the four. As for NVH, I didn't notice any vibration or harshness in the Prius. It was smooooooth. There was some noise from the 4-banger under hard acceleration, but it was muted and I don't mind a little engine note when accelerating--again, that's not a big issue for highway cruising. The tracking of the Prius was excellent--as good as any vehicle I've ever driven (not based on engineering or physics, just on over 30 years of driving experience in dozens of different vehicles). Acceleration is a plus for the V6 Camry and Accord et. al., but the Prius demonstrated to me acceptable power in both. And as for ride, I thought the Prius rode at least as well as a Camry. Remember that it has a longer wheelbase than a Camry or Accord, so it rides bigger than it looks.

    Actually, we haven't talked about one of the most important features of a cruiser: built-in DVD player for long trips! ;-) There, the Camry, Accord, and Prius all fall on their faces, and the minivans shine. The DVD isn't important to me, but I know a lot of buyers who think it's an important feature.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Prius' wheelbase is almost as long as a Camry's, not longer.
  • sonatabeansonatabean Member Posts: 201
    Hi -

    I'm a disgruntled Hyundai Sonata owner and have been toying with the idea of a Hybrid for my next car as (1) it will serve my country well by exporting fewer dollars to anti-US petroleum nations and (2) it is good for my country's environment.

    I frankly like the little car very much . . . but I have one *CRITICAL* complaint.

    I just absolutely *DETEST* the weird dashboard layout on the 2004 Prius. I found it annoying beyond belief.

    Other than that, I pretty much liked the car. Wish one could get leather . . . and it is a bit pricey, too . . . but with the fuel savings over ownership, one recoups the expense.

    Outside that "weird dashboard" issue, I personally thought the Prius makes a nice family car. But I would most certainly be one of those people who counts as an "average Joe" opinion (which is a nice way of saying I am not an aggressive driver, so stellar accelearation and handling are not *THE* PRIORITY when I pick a car).
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > I just absolutely *DETEST* the weird dashboard layout on
    > the 2004 Prius. I found it annoying beyond belief.

    Then you should be quite pleased with some hybrids that will be available a few years from now. They are expected to still have the 20th Century styling, for those that prefer the traditional look.

    As for Prius, it is intentionally designed to reflect what the 21st Century has to offer.

    JOHN
  • sonatabeansonatabean Member Posts: 201
    Actually, you are *slightly* off on that one, John.

    If you were old enough to remember the early 1980s (which based on your comment I am assuming, possibly incorrectly assuming, you are not - and with any luck I'm not about to make a fool of myself by doing so) the digital dash and LED light bars are not, in fact, new 21st century "style."

    Chrysler, higher-end Buicks, Lincoln, and Nissan had them as well . . . back in the *EARLY* 1980s.

    Some of those digital-dash vehicles even spoke to inform you of faults or errors (e.g. Chrysler Town and Country Estate Wagon would repeat, over and over and over, "The door is ajar" when any door was opened while the car was running, often resulting in a frustrated passenger ultimately shouting "No, it's not, you idiot! It's a DOOR!" at the dashboard).

    I like the traditional gauges: for me, they are easier to read and offer some info on how things like speed, RPM, oil pressure, and engine temperature are changing: digital does not do that in a smooth analog sweep of a dial.

    Besides - on a more "visceral" level, the LED readouts remind me of my Mother's generation, who went ga-ga for the Fleetwood and Towne Car with those dashboard layouts . . . only to get irked later when the "lights went out."

    In the end, I know I'd be happiest driving a S-600 for "traditional" styling and excessive comfort, but let's get real: (1) the average family (me!) can't afford that kind of vehicle, (2) petroleum does *NOT* just merrily burst forth from the Earth, (3) prices (petroleum and other) will keep rising over time and (4) our air, land, and water are at risk given the degree to which we use our resouces.

    BUT - thanks for your input. Given I'll be purchasing again in about two years, there is hope. Frankly, my hope is a day comes where a traditional engine becomes passe and every vehicle sports a setup like the 2004 Prius: just plain good business and good public policy.
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    If you'd like a hybrid, but prefer the "old style"
    mounting of the instrument cluster behind the
    steering wheel, take a look at the Honda hybrids:
    while the Honda Insight isn't for everyone, the
    Honda Civic Hybrid is a decent equal to the classic
    Prius. I understand that Honda is planning on
    making a hybrid version of the Accord sometime in
    the future...

    (Mounting the instrument cluster up on the dash,
    towards the center, seems to be the new thing.
    Check out the Toyota Echo, Saturn Ion, or the BMW
    Mini for other examples. It keeps some people
    (like me) from having to duck and turn to try and
    see the instruments that are hiding behind the
    steering wheel, and the high-up on the dash placement
    like on the Prius keeps your eyes from having to
    refocus as much from looking down the road to looking
    at the instruments - saves time (peripheral vision)
    and also reduces night vision glare for many people.
    I see it more as a safety thing.)

    Based on my test drives of the 2004 (currently I
    own a 2001 Prius, my husband is getting a 2004, due
    in Port of NY on 10/27), I do find the Climate
    Control screen to be a bit confusing, to say the
    least. Definately something I'll have to study in
    the Owner's Manual. all the other controls seemed
    fairly intuitive, once you know how to start the
    car. (it seems that I can only select Auto if the
    AC is on...)
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > If you were old enough to remember the early 1980s

    Yes, I remember my grandfather's Sable with the digital readouts.

    But Multi-Display interfaces are brand new, something those vehicles could only dream about. And the ability to interact with it via Voice-Recognition is something that will amaze many people, even today. Also, a button on the dashboard for starting didn't exist in the 80's vehicles, since it wasn't until now that they could be SECURE.

    In other words, it goes beyond just the LED speedometer... which is much, much improved in the 2004 Prius than back then. It is now dramatically easier to see, even in bright daylight.

    JOHN
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi John1701a:

    ___You are letting your enthusiasm get in the way of practicality again ...

    ___Besides the fact that you can purchase Voice Recognition equipped NAVI and Controls in 03 and 04 Honda’s and Acura’s, using the dashboard for starting the vehicle is a huge step backwards. The keyless entry and ignition option is an advance with the appropriate increase in cost but placing the fob into a slot and hitting the start button in separate location is not only less intuitive, it is also less ergonomic. Even the mph display setup just to the right of where the gauge cluster normally would sit not only causes a refocus but an angle away from the primary view. The first generation Prius/Echo made this mistake and the 04 Prius is following right along in their footsteps.

    ___Finally, having a centrally mounted info display is a huge mistake as far as safety is concerned. In our MDX which also has a centrally mounted information display, we have instantaneous fuel consumption, current mpg readout, exterior temps, times, A/C controls, heading, trip data ... etc. Looking over at that display even for an instant is not only un-ergonomic, it is downright unsafe. I don’t know how the manufacturers are going to place all of the available vehicle information directly forward of the driver in the gauge cluster or windscreen but having an information display to the middle of the vehicle is the wrong approach for any generation built vehicle. The Honda Insight and its game gauges in the gauge cluster directly forward of the driver would be a start but even the Insight has an overwhelming amount of data displayed no matter the display chosen thus distracting the driver as well.

    ___Another question for those that now own the new Prius or have test driven one at night, are the steering wheel controls lit? Our local Toyota dealer hasn’t received any as of this writing so I have not had the chance to test drive one just yet.

    PS: Have you received a final TIV for your 01 to purchase the 04 as of yet? I am very interested myself ...

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
    ___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    yes, the steering wheel and joystick are lit at
    night, although the light-from-behind is a little
    dim for my tastes.
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    remember, the Prius pre-dates the Echo, so it is
    the Echo that borrowed the center-mounted instrument
    cluster from the Prius (although, sadly, an analog
    display for the Echo), and not the Prius following
    the Echo.
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Mrvadeboncoeur:

    ___Thank you for the lighted steering mounted control questions answer. This was very good thinking on Toyota’s part.

    ___As for the Echo/Prius centrally mounted display, it really doesn’t matter when it was done, it is that it was done that is the problem. I will correct the first post above if still possible to fix the errata.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
    ___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > placing the fob into a slot

    That's not how SMART-START works. (Sorry, I should have explicity stated that's what I was referring to.) SS is completely touch-free, a big step forward.

     
    > Looking over at that display

    How's that different from looking down?

    Center should be considered safer, since at no time is the steering-wheel or you hand ever in the way.

     
    > Have you received a final TIV

    Please don't use abbreviations.

     
    > TIV

    Since that value won't ever be able to be applied to any other buying situation *EVER*, the amount is irrelevant. If someone chooses to sell their hybrid of the same year and the same mileage even just a few months from now, the hybrid market would have changed so much that comparisons to the past will no longer be accurate.

    I purchased my Prius without any concern for TOC, knowing the market would be totally different just a few years later. And sure enough, that's exactly what happened.

    Once the market is established and hybrids are sold in large quantities just like any other vehicle, then your question is quite valid. Until then, we are still in a developing environment where initial investment is high and we are willing to accept that risk.

    JOHN
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    I must've missed it - what's a TIV and a TOC ?

    ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) and
    TRAC (Toyota Rent A Car) I know, but...
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi John1701a:

    ___Take it easy ... If you read the above, I already mentioned the optional Smart Entry/Smart Start as an extra more costly option. The std. Start as described is that you must place the fob into a slot and hit the start button in an alternate location. There is not much I can think of that is as unorthodox as that to start a vehicle. Maybe turning a hand crank at the front of the vehicle to start it like the first Ford’s about 100 years ago ... Just kidding of course :)

    >How's that different from looking down? Center should be considered safer, since at no time is the steering-wheel or you hand ever in the way.

    ___I believe about 20 or maybe it was 30 years ago, automobile manufacturers were being pressured by the car mags or maybe it was Nader? to make steering wheels that had their spokes placed to the sides so that you can see the instrument cluster through the wheel. I see some here saying they can’t in some vehicles but I haven’t owned an automobile in the last 15 years that I could not see the entire cluster with a glance *straight* down. Why Toyota moved it to the side has to be explained somewhere but even so, a refocus slightly down and to another direction is worse then a refocus straight down. I haven’t driven the 04 so maybe the cluster is at such an angle that peripheral can cover it even with a refocus in which case, it is an advance.

    >Please don't use abbreviations.

    ___John, you know exactly what TIV is and Edmunds describes TMV with abbreviations all over this site? http://www.edmunds.com/used/index.html?tid=edmunds.t.townhall.glo- balheader..2.*

    >Since that value won't ever be able to be applied to any other buying situation *EVER*, the amount is irrelevant.

    ___I just thought I would ask you what your final Trade In Value was since I am very curious is all. You can E-Mail me the final value privately if you don’t want to post it here?

    ___Mrvadeboncoeur, TIV is Trade In Value, TCO is Total Cost of Ownership or here, True Cost to Own, and TMV is True Market Value.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
    ___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > Smart Entry/Smart Start as an extra more costly option

    Yes, since your point-of-view focuses solely at short-term, that is true.

    But in the long-term, the price could easily significantly drop. Just take a look at the PDA market for a similar technology comparison.

    Also, no moving parts means nothing to wear out. Some ignitions do end up breaking after years & years of use. And of course, there physically isn't anything to hot-wire. The biggest benefit naturally is for people who have purses that eat keys or those that don't want to take their gloves off in the dead of winter to unlock & start their car (that's about 99.9% of us, here in Minnesota).

    JOHN
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    TCO, total cost of ownership, seen it often enough.
    should I assume that the TOC I saw in message 758 was
    a typo?
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi John1701a:

    > Yes, since your point-of-view focuses solely at short-term, that is true.

    ___I already mentioned Smart Entry and Start. Did you fail to read this?

    > But in the long-term, the price could easily significantly drop. Just take a look at the PDA market for a similar technology comparison.

    ___I have been known to go OT a bit myself but what are you speaking of now is in regards to PDA’s and such? Someone in another Prius forum mentioned that it cost ~ $6,200 for a battery replacement? Do you know what an 04 Prius battery replacement cost yet? How about the Classic Prius battery replacement? It’s only been available to the world for almost 7 years? Jeeesssh. The long term according to someone that purchases the 04 Prius is what you get when you lay down your $21,000 +. You don’t receive options or parts from an 06 or 07 Prius later on unless a repair is in order?

    > Also, no moving parts means nothing to wear out. Some ignitions do end up breaking after years & years of use.

    ___Why do you keep going here? If you want an expensive repair, get the electronics in an automobile diagnosed and fixed. An OBD-II scan Tool will can give you a trouble code diagnosis but let the dealership tell you that a particular O2 sensor or ignition permissive switch is bad. The bill is expensive. As for a mechanical ignition component going bad, I can bet it has happened many times in the past given the hundreds of millions of vehicles on the road over the last 50 - 100 years with them but I have never heard of it happening myself? The Electronic side? Your guess is as good as mine but lets just say I have a feeling someone won’t be able to start their car for some reason and the security key will have something to do with it. The 03 Acura MDX has had reports of this as it uses an electrical security permissive to allow the vehicle to start. For some reason, too many keys on the Fob, other items’ hanging off the FOB, or other remotes, the signal is interrupted and the vehicle doesn’t start. It hasn’t been reported in mass but it has been reported at least 10 to 20 times that I remember reading about in an MDX forum directly.

    ___Again, just because something goes electronic doesn’t mean its cheaper to the own nor repair. It may be to the manufacturer but to the owner, in many cases this is not the case and for an electronic ignition permissive in the 04 Prius, I can only hope so.

    ___Mrvadeboncoeur, given I have over 41 pages of 10 point font via a Word based document of posts into the Edmunds forums, I can bet you will find more then just 1 misspelling and/or grammatical error. I won’t bother to look up your every post since it is quite meaningless and I didn’t see a clarification for post number whatever until you did just now? Would you mind telling me how many times I spelled TCO correctly in the Edmund’s forum? I can tell you, 41 times as I just did a search through my Word document for the exact number. What does this have to do with the 04 Prius again? To correct said Errat, yes, it was supposed to be TCO.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
    ___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    depending on your height (mainly) and somewhat on
    your arm length, the steering wheel can block your
    view of the instrument cluster in the position of
    behind the steering wheel.

    Myself, I nearly always have to duck, or turn to a
    side, or take a hand off of the wheel to see the
    cluster in most cars. Forget about it if the wheel
    is slightly turned... Then, there's the whole
    refocus thing for a rather close object (the
    steering wheel and instrument cluster), compared to
    the road, and the time needed to duck around to
    view things...

    I much prefer the classic Prius' center-mounted
    and front-ahead position of the instruments. In
    the center, it's easier for assembly (same for
    right and left hand drive). (I don't know why the
    position moved on the 2004 to be about 1/3 in, to
    the driver's side...) The far ahead position doesn't
    require the ducking time to see behind the steering
    wheel - nothing in the way to block the view, therefore
    the transition time from road to instruments to
    road is quicker (I think the 2004's position is
    even quicker, as it is more in the field of vision).
    the further away bits means a bit less refocusing,
    which means less problems with night vision.
    (this is coming from someone who doesn't like to drive
    at night for night vision/glare reasons, besides
    poor depth perception... less problems in the
    Prius (with interior lighting turned down), than
    with any other car I've driven.)
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Mrvadeboncoeur:

    ___I did a check on my Edmunds Posts Word document for TOC and didn’t see it even once? I then checked on message #758 and it isn’t even mine? Were you speaking to John1701a by chance?

    ___I am sorry if I misinterpreted your posts direction.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
    ___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
  • maq4463maq4463 Member Posts: 45
    Things to come!!

    Could it be future US spec Hybrid RX 330:
    http://www.autonews.com/page.cms?pageId=356
    (Scroll down to the bottom)

    Comments?
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi Mag4463:

    ___Wrong forum and it’s relatively old news.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
    ___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > now is in regards to PDA’s and such?

    THE REFERENCE WAS VERY SPECIFICALLY TO *ONLY* SMART-ENTRY & SMART-START, since the technology used in a PDA is quite similar to that particular feature.

    JOHN
  • gilespenngilespenn Member Posts: 3
    After 72 hours with the 2004, I must say that I love the displays-all of them, on the center screen and in the dash. My only caveat is that, as the sales manager warned me, it is entirely too easy to get involved with that screen and drive like someone on a cell phone. It's happened to me twice, especially when I'm fiddling with the climate control. There's a reason Toyota put so many controls on the steering wheel.

    But I really, really like this car. And my other one is a 350Z. (OK, OK, so I make up for that extravagence when I drive the Prius. Maybe it's all about guilt?)

    Right now I'm sitting here thinking of some errand to run...
  • wranglwrangl Member Posts: 2
    Good grief and

    GOOD LUCK!
  • eandlcubedeandlcubed Member Posts: 78
    whoa whoa...take it easy gentlemen. i know you two are very passionate about the pros and cons of the prius respectively. you both have some good points :)

    i do like the center stack. it did look weird for about a week but you becomes accustom to it. it seems more and more manufacturers are going toward the center speedo. look at your quest, bmw mini, echo. all of us have been trained to look directly down at the speedo for so long so the inclination is to reject the new design. give it time wayne. i am sure it is no dangerous either way. my '61 mini has a center speedo too.
    as to the life of the traction batteries, i am sure it may cost a little more to replace but so far the warranty for any hybrid part is 8 yrs/100k. this would include the batteries too. am i correct on this? most of us don't own the same car for more than the "design-life" of the car. for the prius it is about 4 years? just like any product, the batteries will get better in 6-7 years and i am sure the manufacturer will be able to adapt these new batteries to classic cars. well just look at the new freon (can't remember the name) being retrofit on older models' ac system...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    ... so far the warranty for any hybrid part is 8 yrs/100k.

    That is inaccurate. The warranty on the battery is 8 years/100k miles--that warranty doesn't apply to "every hybrid part."

    BTW, the Prius doesn't have a center-mounted speedo like the Mini, ECHO etc. The speedo is mounted directly in front of the driver, in a separate pod high up on the dashboard.

    Personally, I'm hoping the design life of the Prius is a lot more than four years--I'd like at least 7 out of it (trade it before the battery warranty runs out!).
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi John1701a:

    ___As far as PDA’s and such are concerned, if you want to go there, I can give you all kinds of details as to why you wouldn’t want to purchase the extremely high priced voice activated NAVI option so equipped in an 04 Prius. It mainly has to do with almost completely non-upgradeable HW/SW and most importantly, older map and POI data. I am sure with a little searching, you will run upon posts about said OEM built in NAVI units on any number of other forums for any number of other automobiles ...

    ___And on to the SS since you so kindly hate to use even your own abbreviations ;) Are all the Prius’ so equipped with SS? Quite a few of the total? Very few of the total? As mentioned more then once previously, place the FOB in the slot and hit a button somewhere else is two separate actions in two different locations. Bad ergonomics no matter how you try and sugar coat it. Toyota should have let the fob do the work of both actions in just one location since your hand is there anyway or even better, make the SS a std. item just as they should have made the Hatch’s rear wiper a std item as well. The rear hatch wiper as an option was simply foolish on Toyota’s part given anyone that has ever owned a hatch for any length of time knows how important that item truly is.

    ___Eandlcubed, I like to have a little fun in these forums as well. Maybe a bit to much where John1701a is concerned ;) In any case, I just read about a Canadian company out of Quebec that is working specifically on Hybrid replacement batteries (possibly NMH’s?) that should range in the $500 or so area. They are using an Insight as the test bed so you know where to check for that lead and hopefully, this will pan out. That is vs. the wishes of some of the main Prius backers that continue to fill the Prius forums with how the price will come down over time and it’s just around the corner. It only takes a Prius or Insight owner a trip to their local Toyota/Honda dealership to find out what it costs to replace their first (01-03 Prius/Insight) or second generation (04 Prius/HCH) battery packs. For the Insighter’s and their 6 HP capable battery packs, it’s $2,700 as posted by an actual owners experience from a few months ago. For the Prius owners, I have only read of an individual that stated it was $6,200. I am not sure if he was speaking about the first (01 – 03 Prius) or second (04 Prius) generation but in either case, $6,200 for a battery pack replacement that has been out for almost 7 years in the case of the first generation is quite unexplainable given the technology advancements we have seen over that period of time.

    ___Backy, I can’t agree with your more in regards to any warranty (Hybrid or std. ICE) but I haven’t looked up the particulars to note a difference. I don’t even know the particulars of my own (3) 03’s but it is a fair question. My point about the location of the dash indications is that it is not normal or in line for a std. refocus is all. I have watched with interest as the 04 Prius has developed and with that, Toyota has updated their web site (just recently anyway) with interior pics of the gauge/instrument cluster layout. From said pic ( http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicles/prius/gallery/interior/larg- e/photo_2.jpg ), you can see the mph, gear selection, and 2 or 3 other items I can’t make out, just to the right of the driver above the steering wheel vs. straight away in a std. automobile. Sitting in my 03 Corolla, the tach (left), mph (center), fuel and temp (right) all can be seen from within the steering wheels opening whereas the placement of the Prius’ gauge cluster (kind of a misnomer given it’s all digital) is about where the middle left vent adjustment knob is in the Corolla although slightly higher on the dash. From Gilespenn’s comments above, I hope you can also understand my safety concern. Our MDX has the center mounted info display as well and even though I use it all the time (I am a mileage at all costs type individual so the game gauge is really important), I really shouldn’t use it at all given it really is a distraction for on the road use.

    ___Finally, can an 04 Prius owner give me some detail as to how the mph readout displays? For example, let’s imagine you were cruising along at 67 mph in a 55 mph zone. You see a patrol car and instantly let off the accelerator and even tap the brake. Does the mph readout jump from 67 to 62 to 48 or is there also a graph giving you an analog type display letting you watch the deceleration. This is a problem with purely digital number displays but it appears that there might be a digital graph display underneath the instantaneous digital number display as well?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
    ___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    To be clear, the 8 year/100k warranty on the '04 Prius does apply to more than just the battery--also to the battery control module, hybrid control module, and inverter/converter.

    Re placement of gauge cluster--the speedo, fuel gauge, status indicator (Ready, D, R etc.) are directly in front of the driver, not off to the side--at least not any more off to the side as you'd find in a typical car that has both a speedo and a tach of equal sizes (like on my current cars), such that the speedo is in fact offset a bit from the centerline relative to the driver. Any offset on the Prius is no more than that--although I didn't pull out my micrometer to measure it.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    I'm done playing your game. You just oppose what I say and ignore some questions. If others are interested in something, they will ask about it and I will answer.

    If you really want feedback, send an email or message instead. The other forum (where you are doing the same thing) has private contact information readily available.

    JOHN
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Folks, let's focus on the 04 Prius and not on each other. Further posts along this line will be deleted.

    Move on.

    kirstie_h
    Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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  • eandlcubedeandlcubed Member Posts: 78
    from what i can see from the catalogue on the website. there is no bar graph to show the speedo, just the number. it looks very similar to the classic prius. you see the number rapidly changes from 120 down to 100 and so on as you step on the brakes. reverse is applied as well.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    post a picture of the remote FOB?

    tnx
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/warranty.html#prius

    the 8yr/100,000mi (US) warranty is on more than
    just the battery...

    There's a 2001-2003 Prius battery (cover off) here:
    http://www2.kluge.net/2004/hg-Pages/Image113.html
    http://www2.kluge.net/2004/hg-Pages/Image114.html

    recovered from a wreck, will be used to power a
    fuel-cell airplane. the whole pack didn't cost more than $1000.
    (The $6000+ replacement cost was for more than just
    the battery pack - also the cover and a surprisingly
    high labor rate. A stereo installer, drilling a
    hole for a new speaker, didn't check where he was
    drilling and drilled into a cell or two of the battery
    pack. The installer paid for the repair, not the
    owner. Still no idea why the whole pack was replaced,
    as replacing a single bad cell is taught at the
    Prius mechanic training... <shrug> )

    2004 Prius fob here:
    http://www2.kluge.net/2004/hg-Pages/Image90.html
    http://www2.kluge.net/2004/hg-Pages/Image94.html
    http://www2.kluge.net/2004/hg-Pages/Image95.html
    http://newtoyotaparts.com/04prius/dsc00521.jpg
    http://newtoyotaparts.com/04prius/dsc00522.jpg
    http://newtoyotaparts.com/04prius/dsc00523.jpg
    http://newtoyotaparts.com/04prius/dsc00525.jpg
  • geo2004geo2004 Member Posts: 18
    Geo's wife here. Prius came to VT over the weekend. The dealer had a silver BC/pkg on the lot. We drove to see it. It's raining, and people were on the lot seriously looking at this car. Standing next to it, I was surprised how high the car is. The salesman did not even know about Smart Entry and was quite amazed when we told him how it worked. (He goes for training tomorrow.)The car is not yet ready for roadtest driving, but they let me drive it around the lot. Very peppy, and the steering wheel had a very comfortable feel. Very limited rearview vision, but adequate. The beeping going backwards was softer than I expected, so this did not bother me. In fact, I would be glad to have this feature for safety, since the car is so quiet (and with limited rear vision), anyone in the way would be alerted about the car backing up. My only disappointment was the dull gray interior ... not enough contrast to keep it from looking somewhat boring. (This convinced me Salsa Red needs to be my color choice.)I was especially interested in how the fob works. The car is locked from the outside by pushing a black button on the door handle; however, I am told it will not lock unless you have the fob with you, so no locking the fob in the car. Also 2 fobs come with each car. Some have posted that inserting the fob should be the preferred way to start the car; I'm okay with the 2 step procedure because I do not always start a car as soon as I enter -- I can place the fob in its slot, then push the power button only when I am actually ready to drive. Seems to me my Dad's old 49 chevy had a separate start button, so the Power button seems a little retro for me, and I like it. Smart Entry will be a great feature for anyone in cold climates -- no taking off the mittens to fumble in purse or pockets to find the keys, and hopefully this eliminates frozen locks!
    The dealer says, "Order one today, and you have it in 2 months." Really?? The only packages offered are BC, AF, and AI. I was hoping for Vehicle Stability Control, and alas, it only comes with the $2000 Nav system, and the AI does not have Smart Entry and Start. This really cuts down on option choices, at least during first productions.
  • geo2004geo2004 Member Posts: 18
    Mark,
    Yes, #7 is what I'd like, according to the brochure. But the print-out he gave me from his book reads that the AM pkg is #4, and -- by the way -- the BC pkg is #6. So it's best to go by the letters and not the numbers. He was firm about only 3 pkgs being available: AF, AI, and BC, and only the BC has VSC and Smart Entry according to the pkgs he is offering.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Yes, I saw the same printout also and you're right, the package numbers don't match the brochure. But the same printout showed the "AM" package with the options in the brochure's #7 and the car I drove has this package and nothing else. So it is definitely available. I'd bet you're dealing with a dealership policy where they've decide to push customers into the expensive nav to get the safety features.

    - Mark
  • mrvadeboncoeurmrvadeboncoeur Member Posts: 146
    in New England, currently only 3 packages (AF, AI, BC) are
    being offered. see my previous post # 596 - it's not the dealer, it's the region!
    mrvadeboncoeur Oct 10, 2003 10:36am

    You can always special order a different package,
    or your dealer can try and do a swap with a different
    region that does have the package that you want.

    good luck!
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Thanks for the clarification.

    It reminds me of the stranglehold the SE US importer had over how Toyota's came in with port-installed options for many years (and maybe still is this way). They had exclusive distrib rights and always put $2K worth of unwanted options on every car. One reason I drove Mazdas and Hondas when I lived in North Carolina.

    I'd bet 50% of customers would opt for #7/AM if given free choice.

    - Mark
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