Toyota Prius

mrvadeboncoeur

The break-in period is listed in the Owner's Manual.

For the 2004 US Prius:
Break-in Period:

*Drive gently and avoid high speeds.*

Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break-in. But following a few
simple tips for the first 1000 km (600 miles) can add to the future
economy and long life of your vehicle:
* Avoid full-throttle acceleration when starting and driving.
* Avoid racing the hybrid engine.
* Try to avoid hard stops during the first 300 km (200 miles).

----

I'll note that they don't define what a high speed is.
The classic Prius used to say not to go above 62MPH
(100kph) for the first 600 miles.

mrvadeboncoeur

24/7 Toyota Roadside Assistance still comes with
the 2004 Prius as standard (out to 3 years/36,000 miles).

don't let your dealer charge for it!

your car should also come with a full tank of gas.

sadly, the free maintenance is no longer standard
starting with the 2004 Prius.

daysailer

We must reside on different planets.

pb17

Does anyone know how many cubic feet volume the Prius has with the rear seats down? Do the quotes of 16 cubic feet refer to the space with the rear seats up or down?

john1701a

> Cost effectiveness...

Read the entire paragraph for clarification.

JOHN

john1701a

I did a quick measure last night with the back seats down. The usable length was about 69 inches with the front seats in the middle.

That would pretty much indicate that "16 cubic feet" is with the seats up.

JOHN

mrvadeboncoeur

Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc. Retail Sales (includes fleet and
Hawaii) of Prius:

mon yr sales cYTD
Oct 03 4,085 15,018
Sep 03 112 10,933
Aug 03 299 10,821
Jul 03 657 10,522
Jun 03 1,069 9,865
May 03 1,233 8,796
Apr 03 1,457 7,563
Mar 03 2,532 6,106
Feb 03 1,968 3,574
Jan 03 1,606 1,606

Total units of Prius sold in the US, from launch to Dec 02: 41,237
Dec 02 1,790 20,119
Nov 02 1,956 18,329
Oct 02 1,775 16,373
Sep 02 1,382 14,598
Aug 02 1,756 13,216
Jul 02 1,411 11,460
Jun 02 1,369 10,049
May 02 1,648 8,680
Apr 02 1,834 7,032
Mar 02 1,763 5,198
Feb 02 1,481 3,435
Jan 02 1,954 1,954

Dec 01 1,780 15,556
Nov 01 1,580 13,776
Oct 01 1,580 12,196
Sep 01 862 10,616
Aug 01 1,311 9,754
Jul 01 1,037 8,443
Jun 01 1,534 7,406
May 01 1,126 5,872
Apr 01 872 4,746
Mar 01 1,378 3,784
Feb 01 1,198 2,496
Jan 01 1,298 1,298

Dec 00 1,134 5,562
Nov 00 989 4,428
Oct 00 829 3,439
Sep 00 981 2,610
Aug 00 788 1,629
Jul 00 841 841
Launch to July 01, 2000: 839

(October 2003)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20031103d
(September 2003)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20031001
(August 2003)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =200309003c
(July 2003)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20030801
(June 2003)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20030701
(April 2003)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20030501
(and lots of further searching through the Toyota Pressroom...)

Prius worldwide sales went over 100,000 units in Aug. 2002:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20020925

worldwide hybrid sales (just Toyota?) went over 100,000 units in April
2002:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20020422

daysailer

>> Cost effectiveness...

>Read the entire paragraph for clarification.

>JOHN

Speculation as to FUTURE hybrid economics does not change the economic picture TODAY. On this planet, we can only buy today's cars at today's prices.

john1701a

> we can only buy today's cars

The question for many is whether or not to buy TODAY.

Being aware of future plans, like a greater upcoming selection, will influence a purchase decision. Some people will wait having that knowledge. So ignoring that fact is...

JOHN

djasonw

Even though I am getting an '04, I feel that the Prius will now be similar to other cars in its evolution. The classic retained virtually the same body style from it's introduction. I have a feeling tha the 2005 Prius will indeed have a leather option, power seats (with greater adjustment) and maybe even a bit more power. That won't disuade me from buying one today. I've said this before and I will say it again, we are at the beginning of an evolution with respect to the automobile. The hybrid system is definitely taking the right path.

john1701a

The ability to play MP3s and access them via the Multi-Display along with the ability to read from DVD+R/RW is a likely tech-goodie that will be available later too.

Each year gets better & better.

JOHN

callmedrfill

It only took Toyota 2 weeks (!) to sell over 4,000 Prius in October! This easily beats it's best MONTH by 1,500.

  The '04 has already beaten the Insight sales for the year.

  Thank you.

  drfill

Sylvia

You can post dealer names in the discussion but not salespeople info (name/email/phone). Also, please share info here in the discussion so everyone can benefit instead of the "email me privately" if possible.

Thanks!

note - if you put your email address directly in the discussion you have a chance that a bot will come through and soon you will find yourself flooded in spam...sad to say, but it happens. If you want to make your email address available to other Town Hall members, simply mark it "public" in your profile.

sms75

Our local dealer has complained enough to get the SE Region to agree to send them two Prius cars they used for the dealer test drives. They are pretty basic models - they don't even have the rear window wiper. Is there anyone with experience or an opinion as to how vital the rear wiper is?

Thanks,

Stephen

john1701a

If you live in the North, the answer is a big YES.

I got the full demonstration this morning. It snowed.

Wet & Heavy snow builds up quickly on that upper portion of the back window, since it is so flat. (Dry & Light snow will just blow right off. And the bottom portion is well protected from snow.) The wiper did a great job of clearing it. Toyota went to the trouble of wiring the defroster in back to include the entire wiper area, even the part you can't see. So you don't need to worry about it freezing. They also left some room on the bottom of the wiper stroke so buildup will have a chance to melt and slide off, rather than just clump.

I definitely like this setup better than the traditional back window, where you had to rely exclusively on the defroster. Having that wiper is is really nice.

JOHN

coolguyky7

The sales number for this October...is that actually vehicles sold and placed in the hands of the buyer? I would think so, but with numbers like that, it's hard to believe they got so many sold, even given the Prius' growing popularity.

backy

Might be useful in the summer, too. I had a Celica with about the same angle to the backlight and used the rear wiper a lot, in Texas, clearing rain. I wouldn't think of ordering my Prius without the rear wiper. By rights it should have been standard.

wwest

For those of us sixtyish, I really can't imaging how we survived all those wintertimes and Seattle rain without rear wipers.

Rear wipers are undoubtedly very desireable, but your outside rear viwe mirrors are a good substitute.

daysailer

>"The question for many is whether or not to buy
>TODAY.

>Being aware of future plans, like a greater
>upcoming selection, will influence a purchase
>decision. Some people will wait having that
>knowledge. So ignoring that fact is...

>JOHN"

Apparantly you have come "full circle". Once the advocate of the Prius as needing nothing more to be the ultimate vehicle, I read tacit acknowledgement that the Prius may be a more economically sound choice in the future, even implication that the purchase of one today is "silly".

I certainly wouldn't charaterize a Prius purchase that way, but it is not a purchase that can be rationalized in economic terms.

And if you prefer not to have your posts interpreted, please take that to heart before attempting to characterize the posts of others.

john1701a

> Apparantly you have come "full circle".

Welcome. Now you finally see the big picture.

The song I've been singing hasn't changed, just the audience listening.

JOHN

Sylvia

The two of you need to stop taking swipes at each other now. You can agree to disagree without the personal attacks.

john1701a

daysailer and I go way, way back. Drawing this conclusion (aka "full circle") was actually exactly what we needed to finally agree. It won't happen anymore, simply because we are now on the same page with each other.

Thanks for allowing us to discuss it unimpeded.

JOHN

gpsiir

Would like to have gotten a Prius, but to order/receive one with my color/option choices I'm being told 4 months (or more)....I priced out a fully loaded Prius with package #9 is $26,204, a fully optioned out Honda Accord 4 cylinder with leather/Nav/XM radio is $24,135. I figured these cars to be roughly equivalent, but with offsetting strengths/weeknesses (such as Prius has traction control, VSC, HID lights, fuel economy, the Accord has heated leather power seats, better performance, better ride, better ergonomics.) The $2000 savings on the Accord (okay, about $1400 with Prius's tax rebates) would buy about 35-40K miles worth of gas on the Honda. This would make them, in terms of gas, about the same cost to run for the first 100K miles. They both have the same emission ratings, not counting CO2 of course. It's a shame the Prius is scarce as hen's teeth, hence, full MSRP+. If it received even a modest discount it might be worth waiting for a couple of months, but 4 to 6...? (One last hope is that the large Toyota dealer in the area is getting ~20 of these in December, if what I want is in the shipment and not spoken for, maybe I can talk myself into $2000 to drive with a less guilty conscience... ;-)

wwest

Prius would be worth the weight, er.. WAIT.

Even 3 to 4 months.

Remember that the reason you must special order is because you don't fit the demographics. So the 3 to 4 month wait is because you're "special".

gpsiir

Note, that would be wait and $2000 more, also, I would lose 25% of the tax deduction, and wouldn't see anything on the tax deduction until 2005 (must take ownership before Dec 31). I admit that *my* scales are pretty closely balanced on this, but they tilted toward the Accord (which, BTW, is available within a week or so). I'm suppose to hear from the Toyota sales rep on what's coming in December this week, so, guess I'll wait and see a few more days. What he was telling me (truth?) was that the shipment was selling before it came in, and that the people buying didn't care what they got in terms of colors/options. Even if the car gave great sex I wouldn't buy it "in the blind" ;-) No one should be *that* desperate to "be green".

pb17

Test drove two Prius. One in Denver and one in San Diego. In both cases the mpg was approximately 35. Previous drivers also averaged around 35 mpg. In San Diego it involved mixed city and highway. This with moderately aggressive driving. Car ran well and accelerated to 75 easily. What are the folks who get 50+ mpg doing to get such great mileage?
Loaded with navigation priced at $25+K.

15minl8

Let me first thank everyone on these Prius forums for their informative posts. We test drove a stripped down '04 10 days ago and were very impressed with the car but disappointed the sales people knew less about its features and package options than we did. No one even knew it was available with a Nav system! We ordered a pkg. #9(BC)last week and were told by the dealership to expect delivery in 30-60 days. Based on the posts in this forum and our local dealer's lack of knowledge regarding the vehicle and various packages, I wonder if our wait will likely be longer. Is anyone else currently getting similar wait times? This may be a silly question, but how exactly does a dealer know even an estimated time frame from the moment you order? The wait is killing me already and I just don't want any unexpected glitches.

eandlcubed

wow. maybe i'll get to drive my first '04 prius after all. i have a business conference in the washington dc area in the beginning of the december. does anyone know a toyota dealer in the washington dc area? thanks!

john1701a

> What are the folks who get 50+ mpg doing to get such great mileage?

The EPA testing highway maximum speed is only 60 MPH, with normally cruising at just 48 MPH. So don't ever expect close to the sticker rating at speeds above that.

With my 2004 this weekend, I went on a 140 mile highway drive. The car was loaded with 4 adults and some cargo. Speed average wavered between 67 & 68 MPH will many soft rolling hills. The Multi-Display showed an average of 46 MPG in the end. I considered that excellent, considering how cold kills efficiency (it was only 42F degrees) and the car still isn't well broken-in yet (only 700 miles).

By the way, the cruise-control is absolutely amazing. I didn't realize that level of smoooooothness was possible. Cool!

JOHN

bobg18

Apparently, Toyota and their dealers are fully aware that the demand far exceeds supply. In south Florida (like all other areas of the US)dealers are loading Prius cars up with additional fees. I think that there will always be people that can rationalize a purchase and feel good about it no matter what economic sense buying the Prius makes.

At this point in time, it's clear to me that the overall cost of Prius ownership (after correctly evaluating the gas savings) does not make sense - versus buying another car.

So I will revisit the hybrid car situation in a few years when my soon to be purchased 04 Accord (that will only get 26 to 34 mpg - according to the EPA)has many miles on it.

I will still be reading this column and I look forward to the information provided by the people that have purchased the Prius.

eandlcubed

i am sure you can get the car from different state at msrp, yes? anyway, the accord is a fine car too. i can't speak for everyone that my purchase of the classic prius not for its mpg but its technological "wonder" and knowing i leave a better world for my children (the car is rated as sulev). yes it does sound a little hokey . i could have purchase a variety of diesel autos here (i do have a voyager diesel) in its place. good luck with the accord...

wwest

Driving style is everything.

Due to the operation of the battery recharge regenerative system a light touch on the brakes so as to slow down gradually to a stop rather than quickly can mean as much as 25% better MPG.

Coasting to a stop is also a bad idea, much better to put your foot ever so lightly on the brake pedal so the regenerative system will kick in.

A heavy brake foot tells the system that the need to stop is urgent so scrap the regenerative efforts, just get this thing stopped!

john1701a

> Coasting to a stop is also a bad idea, much better to put
> your foot ever so lightly on the brake pedal so the regenerative
> system will kick in.

With HSD, regeneration takes place automatically. Touching the brake pedal is not required. Coasting will result in recharging.

JOHN

ronaldk988

Test drove a Prius for the second time today and am very impressed; but the dealer only allows a ride around a large block (maybe a mile or 2), all level, no freeway driving. Acceleration from a stop was good but what about climbing hills and accelerating from 55 to 70 to pass on the freeway?

Also why is Toyota selling this car in this fashion- ie no inventory, all special order? Are they afraid that it will bomb after the few enthusiasts are finshed buying? They don't want to be left with stock on hand? Or is this their "Odyssey" and they want to create a frenzy?

Lastly the skin of the car (sheet metal) is very thin. How is this holding up in parking lots?
Ron

eandlcubed

i don't think you have to worry about the thin metal. i think you should worry more on the quality of the paint. my classic prius has a few chips (dots) (from the road debris) on the paint and you can see the underneath. the same for my chrysler. however, the '89 and '00 mercedes i owned had about 200k miles on it and with lots of chips (dots) and scratches and you still can't see the underneath.

geo2004

If the paint chips so easily so you can see the metal, how does the car stand up to highly salted winter roads? We had an '87 Subaru that rusted out so that we had to get rid of it at 100,000 miles. Our 96 Accord with 145,000 miles has little, if any, rust. We love the Prius but hesitate because of the tight market, price for the options, and the "unknowns" about the car and the dealer service. So we are also considering sticking with the tried and true fully loaded readily available Accord with great dealer service. The new Prius technology, however, is just so attractive and it's a fun car to drive.

backy

Also why is Toyota selling this car in this fashion- ie no inventory, all special order?

Toyota is selling the Prius in this fashion because of the high demand. If there was less demand, there would be inventory sitting on lots. Read through some recent posts here and you'll see that some dealers do seem to have inventory for immediate purchase. As it is, at this early stage in the '04 Prius' rollout, demand is exceeding supply, thus the only way to get one in most areas right now is to place an order. It was a similar situation a few weeks ago with the '04 Sienna, a very popular vehicle that was in low supply because of a gas tank recall. The low supply meant that many buyers had to order their vans, with few sitting on lots. And dealers are charging MSRP or close to it, just like on the Prius. It's not the Prius, it's the way the marketplace works. As for the dealer-added charges, that's one sure-fire way to have me make a 180 out of a dealership if they refuse to remove the fees.

backy

With the side mirrors properly adjusted, they cannot view directly behind the car. I use the rearview mirror for that, and the rear wiper on a fastback-type car (or minivan for that matter) makes that a lot easier in rain and snow. I realize way back when, we did without rear wipers on cars. We also did without stereo systems (with CDs or even tapes), airbags, beams in the doors for crash protection, multi-adjustable seats, ABS, and a whole litany of other features that many people now view as necessities. Pretty soon I suppose people will see talking NAV systems as on the Prius as a necessity!

wwest

One of the very first things I do upon buying a new car is purchase a "ROW" left, US driver's side, outside rear view mirror.

john1701a

> If the paint chips so easily so you can see the metal, how
> does the car stand up to highly salted winter roads?

PRIMER PAINT is all that's exposed from chips, not bare metal.

And after 3 years of driving on very sandy streets (Minnesota has a vast supply of iceage deposited sand) that were very heavily salted, I just ended up with around 80 or so very tiny (1/32") chips near the base of the hood. None of which were at any risk of rusting (or even visible useless you looked closely). That's not bad at all for such an extreme driving environment.

A simple way to avoid chips is to just have the base of the hood covered with that protective plastic layer. Another is to buy a car that's a similar color to the primer, silver or white.

JOHN

nippononly

to see that for so many posting here, the only other vehicle in contention besides Prius is Accord.

Here in California, the Accord PZEV (SULEV emissions plus extended warranty and zero gas cap emissions) is very popular - 4 cyl, automatic, LX or EX trim only. Rated at 24/34 EPA.

Starts at $23,500 sticker, so may sell near to Prius price if Prius is selling at full sticker. Hard to say which has better content, but I would still get the Prius if I could manage 50 mpg on average. The old one was rated 52/45 and I managed 42 in regular driving, so I would think I could get pretty close to 50 with the new one.

If TRAC near me ever gets these things, I will take one out for a week. The local dealers are not keeping any in stock, although I do see them come and go - the nearest dealer has already sold at least a dozen, just the ones I have seen.

Key to getting good mileage from Prius - let the electric motor do the work as much as possible. That means no pedal-to-the-metal unless you really need the acceleration. This should be easier to achieve in the new one with its broader electric-only range.

john1701a

There's a whole bunch of tech goodies the new Prius offers. Here's one I discovered today with SE/SS (Smart-Entry & Smart-Smart, the wireless transmitter that works without the need to touch it).

By reaching into the passenger handle area on the outside of the hybrid, without actually touching anything, you can unlock all 4 doors and the hatch. Just listen for the beep. That's really handy if you want to unlock the back door and one hand is already busy holding something. I know that because I made the discovery for that very reason. I said, "I wonder?" And sure enough, it worked exactly as I had hoped.

Cool, eh?

JOHN

djasonw

I too wondered about the new Accord (I like the style of the coupe!). Here are the MAIN reasons I did not get the Accord:

1-No skid control- VERY IMPORTANT TO ME
2-No hatch- EXTREMELY IMPORTANT

I am not sure if the Accord has traction control
or side curtain bags as an option.

The most important thing of all is that I am willing to sacrafice performance (not really that much) to make a statement. I am willing to embrace relatively new technology that I feel will be mainstream in the next 5-8 years. I was the first person to buy an MS-DOS machine in 1985 (at least on my block). I was the first person to buy a Segway (in my neighborhood). I LOVE new technology and this is one heck of a car. You gotta love it!!!

eandlcubed

i touched up the paint chip right away. and when i said it chips down to the metal, i mean the coating before the bare metal. as for the outside mirrors, euro version has a built in convex mirror (i think that what it is called) on the outer most part of the mirror on the driver side. what is a "row"?
djasonw: i am with you, i love new tech, that is the reason i bought the classic prius. there is not many prius where i live. the gas mileage is not better than that of diesel but got to love the new tech! the classic one is not selling well here. hopefully the new one will change people mind.

mrvadeboncoeur

I thought that side view mirrors was so that you
could see the SIDE of your car. You already have
a rear-view mirror - why do you need 3? With
proper alignment of the rear and side view mirrors,
you can pretty much remove all blind spots around
your car.

Personally, I like that the 2004 Prius has heated
side mirrors. (classic Prius in Europe previously
only had this) that'll be a great help within
the month when snow will be around here!

wwest

rear wipers in order to make the inside rear view mirror usefull was the original subject matter....

wwest

Running mostly on the electrics will NOT result in better fuel economy UNLESS they are being recharged for FREE, at least MOSTLY, via the regenerative braking system.

Using the ICE to recharge the batteries for additional use will always result in a NET LOSS versus just using only the ICE. Basically that's why the Prius' hwy mpg is not as good as city stop and go driving.

Someone stated earlier that the HSD system would use regenerative braking to recharge the batteries during simple coasting. If I'm under cruise control and it overspeeds I would agree.

But what if I'm simply taking good advantage of the low rolling resistance by coasting slowly to a stop? How does any system "know" to use the regenerative braking system absent my having my foot on the brakes?

It's only by my stepping on the brake that the system can know that I want to stop or slow "aggressively" versus extending my MPG by coasting.

mrvadeboncoeur

does happen when you're coasting, and not just with
cruise control.

http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyotaPrius/PriusFrames.htm
(Understanding your Prius > What's going on as I drive?)

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car9.htm
(very simplified and stripped down)

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/ths2/how.html

basics are, as you're coasting, one of the electirc
motors is being spun as a generator. coasting
means not accelerating.

gpsiir

Just heard from the dealer in Denver, no Prius's until late spring of next year, *if* I put down non-refundable $$$ NOW and wait... Kudos to Toyota engineering for making a "hot" car, but boos and hisses to marketing for totally screwing up the market analysis. Guess I'll just become a "lurker" and follow how well the Prius works for the lucky few on this board who manage to get one. Maybe when it's time to replace my 4Runner, in 4-5 years, Toyota will have a hybrid version of that....

daysailer

with a six month lead time???????

Perhaps the dealer figures that since Prius buyers are not motivated by economics, some may accept absurd requirements.