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Comments
___I don’t know if any of you follow this kind of thing but Toyota could be in a bit of trouble if they are not careful how they handle the fuel tank capacity issue
> What’s the big deal?
General Motors Litigation
Dougherty, Hildre, Dudek & Haklar - located in San Diego, California - successfully litigated a class action lawsuit against General Motors Corporation involving 1995, 1996 and 1997 four door GM Tahoe and Yukon vehicles. This Class Action Lawsuit, which was certified by the Superior Court in San Diego County, claimed that "window stickers" and other point of sale materials inaccurately stated these vehicles had a 30 gallon fuel tank--which they do not.
After many years of litigation, General Motors agreed to compensate class members, including original purchasers and lessees of these vehicles, by providing a certificate worth up to $750.00 toward the retail purchase of a new Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac or GMC Truck.
For more information, contact the class action attorneys at Dougherty, Hildre, Dudek & Haklar. Serving San Diego, California.
___IIRC, the above tanks only held 27 to 28 gallons of fuel?
___I know the 03 Toyota Corolla holds at least 15.3 gallons in its 13.2 gallon capacity (rated) tank. The 03 Acura MDX can hold at least 22.9 gallons in its 19.2 gallon capacity (rated) tank. With that, I have the capability of driving almost 700 miles on a single tank in either of these vehicles. If the Prius can only hold 9 or so and is receiving 50 mpg tops, the range doesn’t come close to meeting what many may have expected from the many press releases on fuel economy and range?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___In defense of the Prius, since the bladder is a part of the PZEV emission HW, I believe it is warranted for 150,000 miles. If it is, that would take most as far as they would car to drive one down the road If it were to fail after that point in time, I still believe it would pass any emission test to date but it would no longer be an SULEV
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
> in its 13.2 gallon capacity (rated) tank
The tank isn't where the extra gas actually goes. The vapor-canister and filler-neck hold that over-capacity gas.
JOHN
That isn't the slightest bit constructive.
JOHN
___You said it wasn’t a big deal above as quoted
> What’s the big deal?
___It must have been a big deal for GM because they were sued over it.
___I take it since the 04 Prius doesn’t have a filler neck and this is where the confusion of < 10 gallons in a 11.9 gallon tank is coming from Yes, that must be it.
___I don’t think Toyota or Acura can be sued for less then stated capacity in the Corolla or MDX but it sure appears to be a problem with the Prius? With the loss of fuel capacity, what is the range of your 04 Prius right now? I am at 553 miles and the low fuel light just came on at 545 miles in the 03 Corolla. I still have at least 107 miles to go before I have to fill up at my current consumption ;-)
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I already stated that I drive to a specific distance and don't try to ever drain the tank dry (which is never wise when the temperature is below freezing, see "frostbite" and "death from exposure" for details), it is has never been an issue for me.
Not waiting until I'm desperate for gas also allows me to take advantage of a low price when I find it.
And of course, winter filth (sand & salt from the roads to prevent ice) needs to be routinely wiped from the windows. Doing that while pumping is rather convenient.
JOHN
___You just stated the range of the 04 Prius is less then that of an 03 Corolla? Apparently you HAVE to fill up ~ 50% more then I do as well. And running the tank dry? Who said anyone was doing that? I see a few Prius owners have done this to attempt to find a true range Over the next 3 fill ups, remember there are those that have only had to stand outside in the cold to fill up their car TWICE. I also use my windshield washer fluid when my windscreen needs a cleansing between fill ups. How do you do it ;-)
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
That is just plain WRONG! You can't use a personal preference to draw a conclusion about a design.
Do a search on the "Trenton Challenge". That documents the first of many owner experiences of having exceeded 500 miles on a tank of gas in a classic Prius.
The ante has now been upped to 600 miles.
JOHN
___If you only have a 10 gallon capacity tank because of the bladder problem and you get 47.9 mpg before it really gets cold, what is the range of your vehicle? 479 miles.
___In the case of a particular 03 Corolla, I usually fill up at the 550 mile range because I cannot make the next 180 mile round trip without refueling. Fuel is usually $0.05 to $0.10 cheaper near my home then work so I usually fill up at the 550 mile mark. I can easily run ~ 650 miles before each fill up over the last 3 months. I know you can’t.
___You do remember this post, don’t you? Take a good look at the gallons of fuel purchased at the ~ 550 mile range mark.
Date Miles Gallons Mileage
09/15 - 568.9 - 13.100 - 43.42748
09/25 - 368.7 - 08.832 - 41.74592
10/03 - 468.9 - 11.174 - 41.96349
10/08 - 396.3 - 08.668 - 45.71989
10/10 - 297.6 - 07.155 - 41.59329
10/15 - 628.6 - 14.957 - 42.02714
10/21 - 673.7 - 15.360 - 43.86068
10/25 - 177.7 - 03.978 - 44.67069
10/28 - 576.6 - 13.988 - 41.22105
11/01 - 642.2 - 14.738 - 43.57443
11/05 - 556.4 - 12.751 - 43.63579
11/08 - 547.8 - 12.540 - 43.68421
11/11 - 545.6 - 12.502 - 43.64102
11/14 - 543.7 - 12.225 - 44.47444
11/17 - 544.6 - 11.954 - 45.55797
11/20 - 543.8 - 11.830 - 45.96788
11/23 - 544.1 - 12.002 - 45.33411
___In other words, I am not generalizing nor am I using personal preference at all but simply my own real world facts.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
IMHO...
Toyota has an incredible overt corporate committment to the environment. They render that very well in a variety of ways to the benefit of all of their stakeholders.
Toyota wouldn't have spent the capital and time to embark on hybrid technology without a desire to insure that this path to meeting thier committments was fully explored, understood and exploited. And they've just begun to scratch the surface.
The Corolla is a great car. Millions of satisfied customers agree. It's the most manufactured single model in automotive history.
However, endlessly benchmarking the Prius against it isn't fair to either car. Different times, design points, corporate goals and constraints.
I think its important to help peole with questions about the car and its technology get fair answers. And since it is still quite new in the long history of things in the auto world, it's prudent to let some time pass before we get too judgemental. ;==)
___I agree to a point. I see every negative finding brought up about the 04 Prius being commented on as being nothing, who cares, or why would anyone be concerned with that? Un-ergonomic comments by most professional reviewers, two location start ergonomics, digital gauges, torsion beam rear suspension, 0 to 60 in > 10 seconds, EPA estimates will not be met, no driver side seat height adjuster, no leather, no lumbar adjustment, no sun roof, no DRL’s, and even the new found bladder problem is no big deal yet reduces the 04 Prius’ range by hundreds of miles. The fact that GM was recently sued because of a similar non-disclosure/incorrect disclosure issue should have rang a few warning bells but it is no big deal. Can every one of these items have been commented on as being nothing for the new or future 04 Prius owner? For non-automobile enthusiasts looking over the Prius enthusiast commentary in this thread you would think the 04 Prius has no faults?
___As for benching only aginst the Corolla, maybe this list of the Prius, Echo, Corolla, Camry, Matrix, Mini-Cooper, and Acura MDX comments will help. I got most of them anyway
Bamacar: Poor Prius mileage – xcel: Benefit of the doubt
John 1701a: Jealous – xcel: Prius trade
John1701a: Matrix – xcel: Prius, Echo, Corolla, Camry, Matrix
Djasnow: Down button, SPIII, Jeep, Corolla – xcel: Down button, SPIII, Jeep, Corolla
John1701a: 0 to 60, 60 to 0: xcel: 0 to 60, 60 to 0
Civicw: Prius commentary – xcel: Professional Prius review
Backy: 01 Poor Elantra purchase – xcel: Poor XR4Ti purchase
Ateixeira: US and MD tax deductions – xcel: Colorado state tax deduction
Alstair2: Synthetic and max pressure – xcel: Synthetic and max pressure
Jchan2: Prius before Christmas – xcel: Prius purchase leads
Backy: Auto-off and 60 to 0 Camry, Golf, Civic, Protege – xcel: DRL’s and 60 to 0 Camry, Corolla, Prius
Greyscale: Mini-Cooper Safety – xcel: Mini-Cooper Safety
Footie: NUMMI/Georgetown – xcel: Toyota Case study
Backy: Auto on vs. Automatic - Auto lights – xcel: DRL’s
John1701a: Gas tank Bladder – xcel: GM Lawsuit and an Acura and Toyota actual tank capacity. John1701a: Desperate for gas – xcel: Corolla’s actual Range.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Do you remember the TV channel or news organization that reported the Case Study you reported in 1521. I'd like to read the details of it and contact them. It sure differs from my understanding and available financial information on Toyota.
Thanks
> of the bladder problem and you get 47.9 mpg before
> it really gets cold, what is the range of your vehicle?
> 479 miles.
I averaged 50 MPG all summer long. The capacity then was 11.9 gallons. That works out to 597 miles, in my Classic. So you could easily see how many 2004 owners averaging 55 MPG will exceed the 600 mile mark.
And since the maximum capacity reduction is 1.5 gallons, it is inappropriate to use 1.9 gallons as a value.
> I cannot make the next 180 mile round trip
Since you are such a number-cruncher, try this: How much money would you save if you moved CLOSER to work? Also, how much time would you save?
> I can easily run ~ 650 miles before each fill up
> over the last 3 months. I know you can’t.
Other Corolla owners can't even do that.
Your MOSTLY HIGHWAY with tire pressure at 47 PSI (beyond the manufacturer specified 44 PSI maximum) data is not a good basis for comparison, since that won't reflect what the typical owner would ever experience.
But on that note, thanks for sharing anyway. It is actually nice to see what an extreme driver could achieve. However, your ULEV emissions just plain can't compare to the PZEV coming out of the Prius tailpipe. Prius is significantly cleaner.
JOHN
THE BLADDER STRETCHES.
That makes your argument about expanding after filling completely irrelevant. The stretching provides the entire buffer size needed for temperature changes.
JOHN
Based on the data he provided for his 180-mile commute (plus running errands and such), he puts roughly 48,000 miles on his car each year.
Based on my data for my 40-mile commute (plus running errands and such), I put roughly 19,000 miles on my car each year.
Distance from work was never part of the overall TCO calculations... until now.
So assuming you milked a vehicle for all it was worth and achieved 240,000 miles before requiring full replacement, Wayne could drive it for 5 years and I could drive it for 12.5 years. He has to replace his vehicle more than twice as often as I do. Ignoring that in the big-picture analysis of TCO is not appropriate.
All of a sudden the numbers turn significantly in my favor.
If you want to save money overall, rather than just on a car, move closer to work.
JOHN
___I found it! It was called “Power of Place: Geography for the 21st Century” and aired on Tuesday, December 2, 5:30am
Content: Regions and Economies
Competition for water in Oregon; influx of Japanese automakers in the U.S. Midwest
___It was on WYCC Analog channel 20/digital channel 21 here in the Chicago area. Here is the programming link --> http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/?station=WYCC&date=2003-12-01&- amp;format=long
___Just scroll to the bottom and you will see it.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
just received my Motor Trend last night and was stunned to see the car of the year award, Pruis.
Check it out.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/112_031120_coy/
> gallons more than the gas.
Hello!
40 degrees isn't enough.
The temperatures has to from 70F to -20F to see that big of a change. That's 90 degrees, not 40.
And it is only under that very specific temperature-range will you see that capacity change. To my knowledge, that has never happened anywhere in the United States over the past 100 years.
> Punch a hole in the balloon the water squirts out because
> it is under pressure. What if this were gasoline?
Hello again.
You obviously haven't ever changed a fuel-filter. Gas is normally under pressure anyway. The Prius tank interior takes that into account.
Your logic does not match with actual real-world experiences.
JOHN
My questions: What are possible/potential problems of having excess oil (above full mark) in the engine? fuel economy? the owner's manual does not say much about risks of having oil level over the full mark. By the way, I plan to switch to Mobil 1 after the "break in" period.
Side issue: As for how much gas I have pumped into my bladder... Have not had the car long enough for a fill up yet.
Your comments will be appreciated. Tony.
> You never answer that one simple question.
I already did. I stated that I have never run the tank dry. For details, just look at my spreadsheet.
I also stated that other owners have. But what I did not mention was the highest volume squeezed in unintentionally was: 12.1 gallons. The highest intentionally was 13 gallons.
JOHN
A little bit (less than 1/4 inch above) most likely won't have any consequence other than a MPG drop. More than that; beware, all kinds of problems can incure.
The distance between the "full" and "add" marks is 1.5 inches. So I prefer to keep mine exactly 1/4 inch below "full" (with 5W30 Mobil 1 Synthetic).
> Have not had the car long enough for a fill up yet.
You'll discover the bladder is more forgiving as it ages. Getting stretched a few times from temperature changes actually helps.
JOHN
BTW, since I will be switching to Mobil 1, have you consider also switching fluids for the planetary gears (if possible). In my old MR2, I used to use "Redline MTL". Redline also makes an ATF version, wondering if this will work on the Prius.
Tony.
> I averaged 50 MPG all summer long. The capacity then was 11.9 gallons. That works out to
> 597 miles, in my Classic. So you could easily see how many 2004 owners averaging 55 MPG
> will exceed the 600 mile mark.
___It appears that a certain post by an 04 Prius owner that ran his tank dry to find out his actual range was deleted this morning? In his post, he drove until the car was out of gas and could only place 9.x gallons into it. I also don’t know why you are mentioning 55 mpg combined is doable by most when even Toyota says those numbers are bunk. Aren’t you averaging something like 47.1 mpg in your 04 Prius to date? I haven’t seen a calculated 55 mpg post yet and I am giving the Prius the benefit of the doubt because I don’t think a single one is broken in yet nor are they being driven in optimal high mileage temperatures for most. 10 gallons (more then the individual with the deleted post could pump in from empty) X 47.1 mpg = a max range of 471 miles possibly?
___Here is another item for all to ponder? Toyota is saying that receiving 55 mpg combined in an 04 Prius will probably not be realistic because Hybrid’s perform differently in the EPA test cycle vs. a std. ICE. They also say it is illegal for them to post any other combined number. Well why are they still using 55 mpg in their Fuel savings calculator when they have stated the above? I don’t think they are legally bound to state 55 mpg in the calculator but they do? Who is misleading who? You can find the calculator here: http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/prius/key_features/fuel_cost_sav_calc.html.
___Here is yet another interesting but similar Toyota factoid as shown here: http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/prius/faq.html
“Despite its larger size, the next generation 2004 Prius is one of the most fuel-efficient cars on the market -- due to its sleek aerodynamic shape and amazing Hybrid Synergy Drive® powertrain. With an EPA-estimated combined city/highway average of 55 mpg [5] and a tank size of about 12 gallons, Prius can travel well over 500 miles between fill-ups.” It sure can travel over 500 miles, can’t it. I wonder what happened to 600?
> Other Corolla owners can't even do that.
___You can’t in an 04 Prius either although I hope you will be able to sometime in the future. That is questionable right now however
> Your MOSTLY HIGHWAY with tire pressure at 47 PSI (beyond the manufacturer specified 44
> PSI maximum) data is not a good basis for comparison, since that won't reflect what the
> typical owner would ever experience.
___Since you brought this subject up Didn’t we just go over this last month? You are member of the Yahoo-Prius forums and read posts about higher tire pressures then this. I know you didn’t come up with it on your own, that is a guarantee. You are also a member of the Insight Central.net forum and have read about the even higher pressures that those members use. You know where maximum mileage comes from and you also know many that are running much higher pressures then I in both GY Integrity’s and Bridgestone Potenza’s. Why are you running 44 #’s currently? Toyota states in the Prius FAQ the following: “Make sure tire pressures are maintained at levels specified in the Owner's Manual.” The average Prius owner will never run 44 #’s or more yet you can post on your web site your real world mpg over the years and people would probably come to expect similar. All you need to do is read the sticker on your Prius’ door. It will tell you what the appropriate and proper pressure to run at is but you, just like I want better fuel economy so we both up the pressures in our respective automobiles to maximize that attribute. Does your car have a soft and supple ride with 44 #’s in it vs. 32 – 35 #’s? You know it doesn’t. I just went from 44 to 47.5 just last month and with that increase, there is a loss of ride comfort and a slight gain in mpg. Say what you want, you are running well beyond Toyota’s manufactures spec. and so am I for one reason and one reason only. Fortunately for me, I can get 650 to almost 700 miles out of tank whereas you are appear to be struggling to get over 500 with the misstated fuel tank capacity caused by a bladder problem.
> But on that note, thanks for sharing anyway. It is actually nice to see what an extreme driver
> could achieve. However, your ULEV emissions just plain can't compare to the PZEV coming
> out of the Prius tailpipe. Prius is significantly cleaner.
___I won’t doubt you on that one but didn’t you just spend $16,000 to $17,000, paid tax on the difference, AND give away your perfectly running 01 Prius for your 04 Prius? I spent less then you did on a more reliable vehicle and paid just $16,200 including the state TAX without giving the dealer a perfectly running Hybrid automobile. I will pollute a bit more and keep the $17,000 in my savings account, thank you. I also believe the manufacture of an automobile will pollute and use more fuel then the vehicle will use in its lifetime. Lets hope your older Prius will see 200 to 250,000 miles for this reason alone
> Since you are such a number-cruncher, try this: How much money would you save if you
> moved CLOSER to work? Also, how much time would you save?
___Because my job was displaced almost 5 years ago 90 miles south. If I moved closer to work, my wife would drive farther to work. In both cases, it’s 95 miles between the 2 work locations and she makes just as much money as I do. It didn’t make financial sense for us to split the difference and pay the realtor’s any fee’s to move half way in between. Since she is driving the MDX and me the Corolla, what is more economical? Over those last 3 years, I have been car pooling with 2 others in the exact same situation. Unfortunately, that is not the case as of 3 months ago once again. As it stands, the Corolla has also been to 8 other states and a 2 Provinces in Canada.
___Along similar lines, you appear to be a single guy. If so, shouldn’t you move closer to work since you obviously have no attachments? Almost 20,000 miles per year for work and play? You could have instead moved closer and rode the bus.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
> 55 mpg combined
"SUMMER" was in the quote. Read carefully please. It is very much winter here now. All vehicles summer lower efficiency as a result. Just air density (thick in cold) alone makes a difference.
And since southern owners with non-broken-in 2004s are already reporting MPG in the low 50's, mid 55's is quite realistic during the warm season.
JOHN
Regarding tank volume, my first fill-up was with just a single square on the fuel gauge and was 6.2 gals. My second was with the single square flashing and was 8.6 gals. The gauge reading appears a little better now, but still off by somewhere around 2-3 gals.
If bladder shrinks in cold, it would show up after emptying at least a few gallons and refilling. Clearly, the bladder could not compress the gasoline, which (as a liquid) is essentially incompressible. Until I have more experience with the gas gauge, I'll assume that it will work itself out in time. If not by return to CA, I'll have the dealer check it out when the replace the transaxle.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/toyota/prius/100326481/roadtestar- ticle.html?articleId=100988
___I have been comparing the Prius to any number of mostly Toyota vehicles but I am focusing on the Corolla and Camry most because of how the Prius is constructed and where it fits in the Toyota lineup. I have also posted comparison specs on the Camry LE/XLE, Corolla LE, Civic Hybrid(s), Echo w/ Auto and Manual, Focus ZX5 PZEV and ULEV, and the Matrix XR/XRS as well.
___The 04 Prius, 03/04 Corolla, and 03/04 Echo use the same or similar lower quality rear suspension and brake HW. The Camry on the other hand uses a much HQ setup for both depending on trim. If the Prius used the HQ HW of a Camry, then I believe it should be compared to a Camry even more but as it stands, it doesn’t. The Prius is more expensive, smaller, uses lower quality HW, has lower braking and acceleration performance, is less comfortable, but does receive better mileage then the Camry. The Camry is also available as a PZEV although it may not be in your locale. Even Edmunds has made mention of the Prius’ as not being in the same league as the Camry: “The lightweight body doesn't feel as rock solid as a Camry, and the driving position can be a bit awkward for some, but the overall comfort level is comparable to most other sedans in its class. “
___As for meeting the EPA mileage, I am sorry you are not even meeting the city mileage EPA estimates in yours. I have never recorded a trip cycle from its first tank, in 5 to 10 below weather traveling in excess of 80 mph, or its last anywhere near that low. Because of this, I think I could achieve at least 53 on the hwy in an 04 Prius as mentioned quite some time ago. From the few 04 Prius owners that have reported actual measured mileage, they aren’t anywhere close to city, hwy, or combined as a group either. This is probably to be expected since Toyota themselves have said so, new Prius’ are not broken in yet, and the temps are too cold to achieve a good average. I hope the warmer weather will help.
___The NHTSA Corolla ratings are 5/5/4/4/4 and the IIHS is rated G all the way across. It is one of the best compacts in terms of safety on the road today. These tests were performed on the 03 w/out side air bags. I can only hope the new Prius is safer then the Corolla because the 01-03 Prius scored rather mediocre in its crash tests. Currently, the 04 Prius is still waiting for the testing to begin so no one knows if they improved from the 01-03 or not? They better have!
___Size I can’t fault you there. The Hatchback Corolla’s in Europe appears to be Prius sized as well but the Prius doesn’t come in a sedan like the Corolla/Camry so there is no direct comparison. If you want size and comfort, the Camry is the easy choice given it has the room front to back and in particular side to side. The 04 Prius fits between the Corolla sedan and Camry sedan as follows: 103.9 / 112.3 / 118.4 (cu. ft.). If the Prius were a sedan, it would be ~ 108 (cu. ft.). Even as a hatchback, it isn’t the size of a Camry nor is it the size of an Avalon at 121.5 (cu. ft.)?
___Lastly, the 04 Prius costs a heck of a lot more then a Corolla or Camry. The 04 Prius when loaded up costs quite a bit more then even a loaded up Camry XLE which carries even more luxury features. When Toyota offers the HSD in an Echo, Corolla, or Camry for $12,500 to $20,000, then it will not only be up to the chore, it may even save the world in the short term. As it stands, 40,000 Prius’ costing an average of ~ $23,000, are pretty darn expensive for an underperformer in quite a few metrics against its peers IMHO.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___I thought you were saying you use your scroll down button? If you don’t want to read, don’t.
___Did your father also test drive a Camry? They are boring too. They are larger, less costly, better performers, are more comfortable etc. At what point does the anemic Prius become boring? While you are running through a sweeper? Running from stop light to stop light? It might even drive with less driver feedback given its nature and lowly performance.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___You aren’t using your scroll button again - hypocrite To bad you added nothing again.
___If you take a look at John’s web site and the lifetime mileage charts in particular, you will see a cycling of mileage from their minimums at the coldest point of the year to maximums in the warmer periods. Unless A/C is invoked where you might see a small drop off if you are lucky in the warmest months and don’t use it all the time. This is a classic fuel consumption chart for most automobiles. In many large cities in the US, a switch is made to a higher oxygenated fuel for a supposed cleaner burn in the warmer summer months. There is a lot of controversy on this as the additives can be more dangerous then the cleaner burn achieves. This summer fuel supposedly lacks the BTU’s of the winter mix thus leading to lower power and economy from what I have read. The warmer temps however more then mask this lower economy fuel so you will still see an increase in economy during the warmer months irregardless if there is a higher oxygenated summer blend fuel or not. Key point. Not all areas have to use summer high-oxygenated blends thus you won’t have any losses due to the fuel itself. I cannot provide links as it has been some time since I looked into this and may be off the mark somewhat.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Sylvia; can't you do something to stop this?
This WAS a nice informative Prius site. It's less enjoyable all the time. Can't you few regulars just back off or go away and drive for a while?
Come back when you have relevant and astutr observations to share.
I am so glad I bought my '04 and appreciate insightful comments on features and performance, not tedious meaningless comparisons.
> Long Island region but I still seem to be
> averaging 46-47 in my commute (quite pleased).
Last weekend's trip from the Twin Cities to Northern Wisconsin was quite pleasing as well, despite pounding on my poor 2004 Prius.
With 4 adults inside and the cargo area packed, the car was well loaded. We traveled along country highways. The speed averaged 60 MPH, with a few short spans at 70 MPH. Only 10% of the 290 miles driven were at city speeds. The temperature only averaged 35 F degrees. The calm morning air turned into a very nasty head wind on the way back.
Regardless of all that, I still managed to average about 42 MPG.
That's not too bad; however, some won't understand that. Looking at only my raw data, you'd have no clue the driving conditions were so harsh. And of course, true break-in won't be complete until around 10,000 miles.
Oh well. At least no one can claim my data isn't real-world.
> Does anyone (John??) know if I will see higher
> numbers in the warmer months?
You'll be amazed! My routine driving so far this week has yielded a 49.7 MPG on the Multi-Display, despite the cold and newness of the car still. That would have been quite impressive in my classic Prius.
I can't wait until the temperature climbs. At 80 F degrees, the hybrid system reacts like it is gliding over melted butter. The smooooooothness is wonderful. It's because you get to take full advantage of the electrical system. MPG will skyrocket! You'll maintain efficiency in the 50's with the greatest of ease.
JOHN
So let's see... nice review by Edmunds.com; MT COTY; and C/D 10Best. Either Toyota is spending a lot of cash paying all these editors off, or maybe it's actually a good car. ;-)
___Who said it wasn’t a good car? Did you also read about the brake feel? That is an important attribute the you may have skipped over. Edmund’s gave it kudos. Make sure you read the piece where the VW was mentioned as well as the rear seating
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
So no gas engine sounds in other words?
You have to go gas to recharge batteries and it displays the charge level in real time?
Since then, I've had a chance to drive in 3"-4" of wet, heavy snow and was even more impressed by this all-weather tire. Grip was available everywhere, the deep directional tread easily dug down to the pavement and provided an outstanding sense of security. I even went up a very steep hill, maybe a 20% grade, came to a stop half-way, and easily accelerated up to the top. Coming down, I exercised the ABS and came to sure, steady stops without drama. On the flats, full throttle from a stop produced the beginning of wheelspin (as it will in the rain), but TRAC intervened and took control immediately. I then tried an informal slalom in a large empty parking lot and easily maintained control up to the point of VSC intervention (the dash light blinks, accompanied by an intermittent chime). The car didn't attempt to swap ends despite any number of attempts to provoke it into bad behavior. As I wrote earlier, this is the smoothest operating TRAC/VSC/ABS system on any Toyota-Lexus I've owned.
About high speed stability compared to the OEM Goodyears, well there isn't a comparison. Although I only drove on the OEM's for a day and 30 miles, it was up into the Columbia River Gorge, famous for windsurfing because of the high gusting winds. I was concerned because the car was slightly unstable, floaty, and subject to tramlining. Mind you, this was into headwinds of 35 gusting 50. Now that I've driven the same road in similar conditions, I can say that the Potenzas will cure those mildly bothersome problems. It's true that the single most cost-effective upgrade for almost any car is tires. For not much more than the price of the V1 package, I got a much improved Prius that's more fun to drive...until VSC steps in to remind me that I'm supposed to be driving an economy car. BTW, I'm running 42ff/40rr pressures, but may back off a couple for a better ride, not that it's bad at all...it's now superior to the OEM shoes.
For comparison, on a scale of 1 to 10 for straight line high speed stability with the new Potenzas, I'll reference it to my other cars:
- MR2 Spyder gets a 2. It's designed to react to everything, and does that well. Of course it's mid-engine, light weight and low polar moment help.
- Land Cruiser (FJ-100) gets a 9. Nothing short of an earthquake would disturb it.
- Lexus IS300 5M/T gets an 8. Great all-around performer, very well-balanced, but it's been substantially modified for road racing.
- Prius, this one gets a 7.5, but only with the new Potenzas. With the Goodyears, a 5. Just keep in mind that it's a light car with fairly direct steering, but still better than most in either the compact or mid-sized segment.
Lastly, notes about the heater: With ambients in the mid-high 30's, Prius starts producing heat from an overnight cold soak by the end of my block, about 200 yds. I suspect that most of the coolant is directed into the heater core during warm-up. It's the quickest warming car I've ever owned, very impressive and excellent forceful distribution.
In short, the more I drive the new Prius, the more I appreciate the benchmark car it is for the US market. I believe it's a significant step in the transformation of automotive design, at least until the next quantum breakthrough such as Toyota's own D4D diesel technology arrives...if it ever makes it here. Until then, I'm thinking of getting one of those "Danger, High Voltage" stickers for the back window. Whaddya think?
As always, my 2¢.
You'll be very impressed with the increased grip in the wet, dry, or even snow. The only thing to put a lid on the grins is the conservatively calibrated TRAC/VSC. There's a slight fuel economy penalty estimated at 2-3 mpg, well worth the improvement in ride, handling, traction, grip, NVH, and FUN!
As always, my 2¢.
-juice