Toyota Prius

ruking1

He did state in this or another thread that his point was to be the "devils" advocate.

Sylvia

Playing devil's advocate to a point is fine for anyone. I simply think we are past the point of it being beneficial and now the back-n-forth is simply disruptive and causing the discussion to spiral downwards.

mfullmer

I agree. Can anyone address my post?

While I was out to lunch this afternoon (and sitting in traffic) the battery bars sat at two red bars for a while. It would recharge a bit from light to light but then drop down.

I saw absolutely no difference in performance, of the car or the A/C, but was wondering if this is normal. Could it have something to do with the fact that the car was totally dead when I picked it up and they had to charge it up a bit?

It was kind of cool because it never dipped to one red bar and the engine kicked in a few times while stopped to give it a little boost.

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rpgolfer

Hi gang,
   Is it safe to enter this thread again? Has the smoke cleared? Don't step in the testosterone.
   In 5500 miles, I'm averaging a little over 45 mpg lifetime. Am I disappointed that it's not over 50 mpg?...perhaps, but there's not much I can do about it. I'm happy to get whatever I get. If I lived in Nebraska (flat terrain) I could expect 50+ mpg with regularity. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area we have our share of elevation changes and where I live is mostly hills. I drive the speed limit (usually), I don't overaccelerate and I coast whenever I can. Whatever I'm getting is an improvement over what I had and it's helping the environment, too. None of my friends feel sorry for me if I get ONLY 42 mpg.
Thanks,
Rich

Sylvia

We just had the Hybrid Vehicles chat (new chat every Tuesday 5-6pm PT) I'm sorry you weren't in it...many great questions from new people hoping to get some real-time feedback and answers.

mfullmer

I thought it was later here on the east coast. Anyway, rpgolfer, I grew up in Orinda and, although I live in Atlanta, GA now, I found out that several of the people I know in the Bay Area have purchased '04 Prius'.

One thing I have noticed in the last two days (I have a rented one until Thursday and I ordered mine today) is that I actually WATCH MY SPEED NOW! Funny how I didn't even notice it before but now I watch all of the stuff religeously. Of course I keep my eyes on the road too!

I can't wait to get my leather appointed Pkg 9 Salsa Red. Let me at 'em!

ruking1

From other posts, my take is that your experience is not unlike other folks. For me, it is of greater interest in that I operate my 2003 VW Jetta TDI in some of the same environs. So for example, a 50 mile R/T commute on highway 101; yields a 25 mile commute one way, that can go from 30 min to 1.5 hrs or 1-3 hrs R/T and over the long term (INXS of 15 months or 16,500 miles, it gets the range from 48-51 mpg. We hardly apply any "fuel miser" techniques, except for maybe that we don't exceed 90 mph!

I am also interested in a San Jose CA to Sparks NV run for the Prius. I did it in a TDI 3 hrs (2.75 hrs with 15 min nature break) 245 miles AC on and three persons with 250# or a full trunk and got 45 mpg 0-6550 altitude. On the return 6500 altitude to zero, again the same data with 49 mpg. so that averages out to 47 mpg.

john1701a

That battery-level is totally, completely normal.

JOHN

john1701a

> you posted a huge amount of undistilled information only after being asked numerous times to post it.

Really? I have yet to find a single request. But I did find several mentions of where to find that data.

So once and for all... DO YOU NOW HAVE WHAT YOU NEED?

As for me, I am still waiting for an answer. What about "weighted" averages?

JOHN

usbseawolf2000

"I saw absolutely no difference in performance, of the car or the A/C, but was wondering if this is normal."

Sounds like NiMH battery performance. Nimh gives all it got at fairly consistant discharge rate until it run out of steam. Also remember that even if you have no more bars, the battery still have about 40% capacity left.

Dennis

linda1

to John re shifting to neutral with the 2004 during car wash, This is a special situation as apparently the 2004 is problematic going thru the wash and slips into power on. Here's what Toyota told me
1) with the power off put the parking brake on but not the foot brake
2) press power button twice 3)put the car in neutral 3) release the parking brake. Since this requires an attendant in the car, my car wash will not take the Prius 2004 through if they're busy. Toyota is aware of this problem and is not correcting it at this time. The dealers don't seem to know about it nor does Toyota seem to warn Prius 2004 (and up?) buyers. Linda

gagrice

I hope you are kidding. There is not a chance that it is a car for everyone. It is a niche market car. If it was for everyone the forum would not be filled with debate on all the other cars available. First off if 60 million cars are sold as some have speculated. Toyota is only building 130,000. That is less than one percent. A very small niche market. If you read the debates here It is pretty even between the hybrid and diesel advocates. There are extremists on both edges. Personally I think it is environmentally and economically harmful to trade in a vehicle that is still running good no matter how old. The damage to the environment coming from every vehicle that is manufactured is very substantial. I hope you love your Prius. I think it is a good car. It is far from perfect for everyone. I thought it would be nice to use around town. I find out that is not practical from others on this forum. It is ideally suited for commuters. Lord knows that is a pretty good chunk of the population.

mfullmer

Thanks, I figured that since it jumped all the way back up to nearly "full" on my way home it was ok.

Something else I noticed on my way home a lot. I'm not saying this is an important factor of the Prius as I know "instantaneous mpg" is analystically irrelevent but, what I noticed was my instant mpg on the freeway coming home (not coasting) was nearly a constant 38 mpg. I couldn't help but compare this to my Tahoe which always reads 17-19 on the freeway.

mfullmer

You misunderstood. Note that I didn't say "everyone will want this car". The car is a car for everyone who can afford one. As far as I know one needn't be left, right, middle or have any environmental or social agenda in order to purchase and enjoy one.

djasonw

Gary.. sure it is a small percentage. That't because currently Toyota is limited by production contraints. If they were able to build 300,000 they'd sell them all. Now THAT is not a niche market. In five years time you will see more and more hybrids (not just the Prius) come to market and every one of them will be sold before they even have a chance to hit the dealer's inventory lots. Now THAT is NOT a niche market. You just watch and see. This is only the beginning for hybrids.

mfullmer

This has to do with REDUCTION of speed instead of increased speed.

I love what the regenerative braking does with the speed while coasting. I live on a street with a gradually sloping section and, at our own request, we have cops stationed on the road to catch speeders (50+ mph in a residential!). Yesterday evening was the first time I had come down the street that way and it was cool because instead of coasting and building speed, the vehicle actually slowed down a bit.

I love this car!

Also, I saw on the priusonline board that a dealer told someone that in 2005 the leather will be standard. I'll guess they made a mistake and mean "available" since I've only found it to be available on the 2004s in the southeast. Now if only they will just standardize the auto lighting system they have in Canada. It seems to make more sense to have one control than two for different markets.

gagrice

We will not know the market until the auto makers reach the saturation point. I am still skeptical that the hybrid is being built for less than they are selling for. I have not seen any substantiating evidence to the actual cost of a Prius. Is the US giving Toyota any break on Import Tax for the Prius. All these factors will have as much to do with market share as the willingness of people to buy the car. There is no doubt that there is a larger demand than supply. Personally it would not be a main vehicle for me as a CA driver. Even if gas is $5 per gallon. I just don't feel safe in a small car with the average vehicle being so much larger. I thought we as a nation were headed toward smaller cars in the 1980s. Now every car on the road is larger. I was comparing a 1990 Camry to a 2004. The 2004 is a lot bigger. Now all the Japanese auto makers are building bigger PU trucks. One of the fastest selling SUVs is the Caddy Escalade, it brought them back to the limelight. I don't see the Prius size vehicle as main stream, at least not in CA.

backy

Not in CA? I don't live in CA but I visited San Jose in April and I saw '04 Priuses everywhere. In just one parking lot where I was working that week, there must have been 5 Priuses just in the small section of lot that I was in.

As for the trend to larger cars, I think you are right and it is a sad thing. Some people really need a large vehicle, to haul many people or heavy loads or whatever. But how many people really need a huge pickup or SUV to commute to work? IMO if people would drive the smallest vehicle that meets their needs we would all benefit. If gas prices keep going up, I think we'll see an upsurge in popularity of smaller cars and hybrids. Even during the recent bump in prices, news reports talked about the decline in sales of large SUVs and the surge in popularity of hybrids like the Prius.

mfullmer

My .03 worth (hey, inflation you know). I'm renting one for a few days and drive a 2003 Chevy Tahoe daily normally. I really thought I would not feel comfortable or safe in the vehicle but I am pleasantly surprised.

I think because this car is pretty tall, I don't feel smaller than most cars on the road and certainly not intimidated by any trucks, even the semi trucks I encounter on the freeway on my way in to the office.

gagrice

I would rent a Prius in Hawaii. I think it would be fun to drive around the island. I really like that silence. I just don't like not seeing what is going on when I am on the freeway. Our main problem is we have older vehicles that are very low mileage. Still in perfect condition. We go out and test drive different vehicles. The comfort and handling of the newer versions of our LS 400 and Suburban are not enough to get us to part with the cash. We always calculate the savings on whatever we buy, Refrigerators to hot water heaters. If it does not come out on paper we save the money. The only thing I waste money on is computers and digital cameras. If I had 20 miles of commute everyday, I might consider the Prius.

john1701a

> I am still skeptical that the hybrid is being built for less than they are selling for.

That article link provided here the other day clearly pointed out that the 2004 Prius is not making a profit yet. (Why are you beating this dead horse?)

It also pointed out that profit for the new Prius will be achieved much sooner than it was for the classic model.

Remember, HSD is a technology, not a vehicle. Prius just happens to be the first one using it.

JOHN

azstan

Thank you Sylvia for riding out of the desert and into this forum to save those of us who are tired of "quibbling" and want information. Information that some of the quibblers have and could be sharing (most appreciated by me).

An earlier post said something about the display bar showing battery charge going down into the red. I would like to know just what happens when I see this...should I be concerned and what should I do? I am in southern AZ and use air conditioning a lot and occasionally this has happened to me.

Thanking you in advance.

mfullmer

Understood. If my Tahoe lease wasn't up in January I, most likely, wouldn't be looking at any new vehicle.

That said, it will be nice once we get the Prius to have two TMC products (RX330 and Prius) that I know we can keep for longer than the warranty!

mfullmer

This is just from my 2 day experience but I don't think you need to worry or do anything. I am very humidity intolerant so I keep the A/C on at all times. Those red bars I noticed quickly became several blue bars and this morning on the way to the office I achieved green bars and only one bar was not lit up, with the A/C on, the wipers going and the stereo on.

mfullmer

I'm trying to order an '05 but am not sure how I should go about it.

I need to get it in December. Current vehicle lease is up in January but I want to get the '04 tax deduction. I don't really want it earlier than December though.

Should I get on a waiting list now? If I do does that mean I have to take the first one that comes in that I like? Any words of wisdom would help.

mfullmer

Is there a way to find out which dealership gets the most in my area? I've emailed a couple and have gotten replies back with 12 on their list and one with 82 on their list (waiting for Prius).

djasonw

The Prius is a VERY safe vehicle according to the testing conducted in the US and Europe. Interesting fact is that even though SUVs are big, it doesn't mean that they'll protect you in a crash. We all know that those large hulking SUVs handle poorly and have a greater propensity to turn over. I'll stick with cars thank-you! SUV's have their place on the farm, not on our roads. Long live the Prius (and other hybrids)!

eyeman

How do I reset the Maintenance Req'd light on my '04 Prius after doing my own oil change?

backy

Tell your dealer(s) you want a '05. The dealer I am working with has a list that notes who wants to wait for a '05. Also find out what your dealer's policy is wrt the wait list. Mine is pretty flexible, and if my name comes up and I don't want the car, I'll just hold my position on the list and the next person down gets a shot at it. Also, ask your dealer what their allocation is. The length of their waiting list may not reflect their allocation. Some dealers get 1 per month, others get 10, 20 or more. What you may want to do is get on multiple lists (be sure the dealer doesn't actually run your credit card for the deposit) and see which one comes up first. Also call all the dealers around you, tell them what you want and give them your cell phone or pager number so they can contact you anytime if a car becomes available. And have your financing lined up.

john1701a

They chose that color since it was easy to see. That's all. PINK is just an indicator, not a warning as RED usually implies.



> Those red bars I noticed quickly became several blue bars

For me, I've notice a pattern with the recharging. The three bars following PINK typically take 1 mile each, regardless of driving speed.

JOHN

gagrice

That article link provided here the other day clearly pointed out that the 2004 Prius is not making a profit yet. (Why are you beating this dead horse?)

I thought you posted that the Prius was indeed profitable for Toyota. I have a very logical reason for buying vehicles that are profitable and not experimental. I don't want to end up with a 10 year old vehicle that the manufacturer long ago abandoned, such as the GM EV. Who do you get to work on it? Where do you get spares? In this world of throw away everything, I find it discomforting to think about a vehicle that after 5 or 6 years you just dump. We have a 1990 LS 400 that is still a good vehicle with less than 5500 miles per year on it. It is not worth anything in trade so we just keep driving it and leave the money in the bank. It does not pollute any more than a new LS430 Lexus. Maybe my thinking is not logical to you. You also drive a lot more than I do and can justify a new car every 3 years.

john1701a

> How do I reset the Maintenance Req'd light on my '04 Prius after doing my own oil change?

1) With the power on, switch to the odometer/trip-meter to display "ODO".

2) Power OFF (push the "Power" button).

3) Power ON, while holding the button for "ODO".

4) Wait for the reminder light to stop flashing, then release.

john1701a

> I thought you posted that the Prius was indeed profitable for Toyota.

"was" is correct. But the move from classic to 2004 changed that.

> I don't want to end up with a 10 year old vehicle that the manufacturer long ago abandoned

That why I push so hard for people to focus on LONG-TERM, rather than what is happening today.

> You also drive a lot more than I do and can justify a new car every 3 years.

That is a false picture of me that people are drawing. In reality, the cost of the use of my 2001 Prius I had was only $7,500 (spelled out in detail on the website), which works out to payments $209 per month for 60,000 miles of ownership.

JOHN

usbseawolf2000

Is Toyota making money on the Prius?

Toyota is in business to make money and this generation Prius will be profitable sooner than the last generation Prius. Economies of scale, especially with the unanticipated volume of the new Prius, will make that happen even earlier than initially projected.

Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?

Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20040623

I guess, you did not see my post in "Hybrids in the News" board.

Dennis

mfullmer

Actually, after reading a post on the other board, I realized I'm not looking at it properly. I was actually driving TRYING to charge the battery (with both regen brake and engine).

What was I thinking? Even if the battery did get totally discharged (unlikely) the car still has an engine I had plenty of gas.

Although I know the hybrid system is nothing like the electric EV1 I keep remembering the two times I saw those vehicles on the side of road, apprently out of "juice". I have to block that out of my mind since that was a totally different system.

gagrice

That is a false picture of me that people are drawing. In reality, the cost of the use of my 2001 Prius I had was only $7,500 (spelled out in detail on the website), which works out to payments $209 per month for 60,000 miles of ownership

If I was putting 20k miles a year on a car I would for sure think about a new one every 3 years. I think that is why the Prius is probably ideally suited to your situation. My cars sit for the 3 weeks out of every 6 weeks while I am at work in Alaska. I work the 3 weeks at home on the house and in the orchard. I need a vehicle to run 3 miles to Home Depot and haul back concrete and fertilizer. The Suburban is not perfect for that but it works. I really want a small truck that gets great mileage. None are available in this country.

ruking1

I for one think that your reasoning is sound. I was involved in the acquisition of an EV Ford Ranger for our city. My personal response to the acquisition was DO NOT GET IT! As I recall it was a $30,000 acquisition, which the CFO said was offset (at the time by a FED tax credit to our municipality)

I remember telling the dealership to massage the machine to make sure that there was NO glitches, since it was to be unveiled at a media event! YUP you guessed it! It failed to work! It has long since been unceremonously sent to auction. We had also built a number of "electrical plug in stations" at city hall and also at our light rail station! I am almost 100% positive that this "free electricity" is not even being used! It fulfilled its " media function". The real work horses are the gassers and diesel suvs and pick up trucks!

Vehicles as most folks know function best with systematic use! So for your 1990 Lexus you are correct to want and buy more reliable type transportation! You are also more likely to be on the correct side of the logistic support parameters which customers usually dont care much about. Also the logistical DELIVERY parameters of Toyota as simply awesome!

backy

How many new designs recoup the automaker's entire investment in the first year of production? Yet that is what some people expect of the '04 Prius.

Another example: Ford is leveraging its investment in small cars by sharing a platform, powertrains, and other components across at least four models. I doubt whether Ford could recoup its entire investment in small car technology if they had to recoup the investment through only the Volvo S40 or Mazda3. Similary, Toyota is recouping the cost of developing its hybrid technology by sharing it across vehicles and even with other automakers through licensing arrangements. To assert that Toyota is not serious about making a profit on hybrid vehicles is unjustified, IMO. The Classic Prius was profitable. Once the development costs for the Prius II have been recouped, it too will be profitable. Toyota did not become the most profitable automaker and #2 automaker by volume in the world by making unprofitable vehicles.

djasonw

Home Depot rents a truck for 19.95 for 75 minutes. Instead of owning a gas hog, I park my Prius (or Mercedes) at Home Depot and load up THEIR truck, dirty it up and haul it home 3 miles to my house. Even if I did that twice a month, it sure beats owning an SUV. I also sometimes use the Prius to haul stuff home as the hatch really can hold a great deal of mulch/fertilizer.

gagrice

That is a good idea. I just noticed that $19.95 deal on the side of their trucks the other day. I told my wife the next time we get a load of blocks we should take advantage of it. I just cannot justify getting rid of a vehicle with 45k miles that is paid for and costing me very little to keep around. Although I do entertain the thought of selling to my neighbor who has offered top dollar for it. As has been posted here the Prius would not be a good vehicle for me as my average trip to shop is less than 6 miles round trip. The Prius is not designed for those short trips. I would probably buy a 5 or 6 year old Ford Ranger to do my errands and save the other $20k.

mfullmer

I don't understand. What is your interest in the Prius (and in this board)? You don't own one. You don't want to own one. You are happy with your current vehicles and plan on keeping them for a while.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say only people who own or want to own a Prius should be on this board. I'm just asking because I don't get it.

gagrice

On the contrary. I drove and liked one of the first to show up in San Diego. I came to this board looking for information on a small economical PU truck. I would be happy with a hybrid or a diesel. I am not going to jump on the bandwagon as some have just because the Prius is the "IN" vehicle. I have gained much useful information on this board more than is available from the dealers. If any of the automakers come out with something I can use I will buy it. So far they have not. Also many times the subjects stray from the original and more information comes out. Like I had no idea that Toyota builds most of their vehicles with diesel engines for the rest of the world. I believe that came out on this thread. And I enjoy the debate as long as people do not get hateful.

ruking1

http://www.autopartsauthority.com/qw/toyota_camry~diesel~parts.ht- - - ml?sendroicid=43e87423-f648-4b57-936b-c3a5e49606bc&sendroikwd- - - =Toyota+Camry+Diesel+Parts

I hope this will not be sanctioned, I have no interest in this web site other than it was one of the ones that popped up in a web search: Toyota, diesel.

"Whether you are on the look out for a new car for yourself, or you're in charge of your company's fleet of vehicles, diesel makes an economical alternative to petrol - and Octagon Toyota has plenty of models from which to choose.
After the successful launch of its 2.0 litre RAV4 D-4D last autumn, Toyota's D-4D common rail diesel engine is now available across almost the entire range, including the Yaris, Yaris Verso, Corolla, Corolla Verso, Avensis, Avensis Verso, Previa and Land Cruiser. A new 75bhp 1.4 litre engine has also just become available in the Yaris and Yaris Verso - and with a fuel economy figure of 65 miles per gallon, a tankful will easily last for 600 miles.
Company vehicle and high mileage drivers are also being converted to the Toyota D-4D diesel engine because of its very low emissions compared to its class rivals."

http://www.nikegroup.co.uk/2002summerpage5.php

backy

I don't know about sactions, but there IS a "hybrids vs. diesels" board here...

mfullmer

Thanks. I was just wondering. A hybrid pickup would be a great thing. I can see it being used by a lot of handymen.

I know what you mean about the dealers. The first time I ever seriously thought about the Prius I went into a local Toyota dealer. Of course they didn't have any but the salesman (it is a really sleazy dealership but I was passing by and thought I would hop in.) told me he would take some information and call me when one came in. When he asked me if I was "interested in a STICK OR AUTOMATIC PRIUS" I said "Are you kidding? Loser." and walked out. I know that was harsh but I couldn't believe what he was saying.

kalmikey

Dodge is apparently muttering very loudly about a Hybrid Ram. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one other major manufacturer talking about a smaller Hybrid pickup.

They're coming. They're just not here yet.

midnightcowboy

I want the STICK Prius. Where is it avaialble?

Sylvia

Pickups, diesels and more - take a look at the list of ALL hybrid discussions http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef27a26 and post your non-Prius comments in a discussion more suited for it.

many thanks

ruking1

Actually if and when the Prius is in consideration that is what I would want also! Honda Civic Hybrid comes with the CVT and the manual options!

Sylvia

We now have a weekly chat - Tuesdays 5-6pm PT/8-9pm ET. I was surprised by the small number of attendees given the activity in the hybrid discussions. Is this just a bad time for everyone? What would be better? Earlier in the day (noon EST) or later in the evening?

We will be brining in some industry experts to this chat, so I want to make sure I have a time that works for the majority of you.

CLICK HERE to post the best time for you to participate in a chat. Please include your time zone. Also, if Tuesdays don't work, suggest another day of the week.

Thanks!