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Why don't dealers want to make money?

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Comments

  • toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    That's absolutely right on the other end of the spectrum. I think that letting a customer walk after spending that much time and effort spent over $25 or for that matter $100 doesn't make sense either. If it got to that point, I would, and for that matter, have paid for something like that out of my own pocket when the desk is getting idiotic over something like that. At the same time, you gave them the opportunity to earn your business. It's not like you got done with all of your negotiations, left a deposit, etc. and then called back to say that another dealer was willing to match their deal and give you a couple of extra keys and so you were going to purchase there. Doesn't make sense to me.

    Now I don't assume that other people are like me, but I know that I still go to a particular furniture store in the area as they have been wonderful in their service to me. They're not the most expensive in the area, but certainly not the least expensive either. But when I walk in, I get treated well by everyone there, especially the sales rep we work with each time (my wife can't seem to let us out of the store without buying something *LOL*). But after the time spent with them and the time they've spent with us, I wouldn't even consider purchasing something before at least giving them the opportunity to find something similar and come close on price.

    Just different viewpoints on the purchase process I guess.

    I did have a good day today, BTW. Didn't have anyone purchase a Toyota, but had a repeat customer call up and met them at our Buick store and they purchased a Rendezvous from me. So it all works out in the end.

    Ken
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Some people can be very "small". that's how they go through life.

    You don't need a customer like this...move on!
  • toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    No doubt and I have. Had a very busy day today with appointments and deliveries and ended up being a very good day overall, so in the whole scheme of things, pretty minor.

    Ken
  • mikezoomzoommikezoomzoom Member Posts: 69
    I'm still waiting.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    ...I hope, holding your breath.
  • mikezoomzoommikezoomzoom Member Posts: 69
    As most already know, I work at a dealership in Fort Worth, Tx where we have recently offered "Factory Unauthorized Employee Pricing To The Public." THIS IS NOT A MAZDA PROGRAM!!! We essentially were selling cars to stimulate business and increase volume, with no substantial gain of profit. I made about $1,200 total last month by selling 8 units.

    Employee pricing is easy to verify. Every vehicle has it's S-Plan price clearly stated on the factory invoice. This is the same price which I would pay if I was purchasing a new Mazda. You would also receive any applicable incentives as well. Simply ask to verify pricing by requesting to view the factory invoice. If everything is on the up and up, there should be no problem at all.

    The biggest difficulty I've had is the mindset of the consumer. Many times the S-Plan has been given, then the rebates, then the MAC bonus cash, only to have the customer respond with,"THAT'S IT?"

    I truly do what I can to earn my "mini" commission of a $100, including top notch service and treatment, product presentation like no other. However, consumers also need to realize your not going to get a $10,000 discount on every car, truck, van, or SUV.
  • crownlinecrownline Member Posts: 1
    hey mike.. liked your post and wondering if you could help me. I want to be a good customer and I want you guys to make a decent buck myself.. trouble is that there are many salespeople out there that will get you for all they can. Let the buyer beware right? I am looking at a mazda 6 myself but I really don't see any benefit of the S plan? can you enlighten me? I have done my research on a 2005 Mazda 6 and I came up with an invoice price of $20,574(I Sport) which includes destination. I added $750 for automatic trans, $1,150 for Bose and moonroof, $30 for a stupid cargo net that I wouldn't want anyway and $50 for edge guards that I could also care less about. that comes to $22,554 minus $3,500 in incentives for a total of $19,054. However the dealer gives me the purchase proposal of List:$24,700 minus the "S Plan" discount of $2,103 for a total of $22,597 minus the same $3,500 in incentives for a total of $19,097!! pretty close.. However I also have $300 worth of coupons from the Internet and paper that I could use in conjunction with my research price. I was told I could not use that $300 worth of coupons with S plan pricing!! so my question to you is "who needs S plan pricing?
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    personally I would call $43 above invoice a great price. However, if you can get them to sell you the car for $257 above invoice or less and can get them to accept all of your coupons, then you will do better than the S-plan. Good luck with that.

    I suspect that they will only allow you to use one coupon, which would probably throw a monkey wrench into your plan. But if you can do it, more power to you.

    For people who don't want the hassle of arguing about coupons or haggling over the price, the S-plan is pretty darn good I'd have to say.
  • jksledsonjksledson Member Posts: 14
    How many times have you gone to look at or buy a vehicle only to have the salesperson know next-to-nothing about the vehicle?

    Do they not make enough money to care to learn about what they are selling?

    They should at least know basics on a vehicle plus know how it matches up against competitor vehicles. Or is this just not necessary any more?

    What are your thoughts?
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    All I ask a car sales person to do is carry my written OTD offer to the sales manager without losing it.

    If you need any info about a car you might want to buy, then do your own research.

    I like car sales people and enjoy talking with them, but I don't expect them to know anything.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I expect nothing at all from salespeople. The guy I bought my Acura from told me he had just transferred over from a corporate Toyota store and didn't know anything about the car.

    Salespeople are basically employed to play games with the customer and waste as much time as possible until the customer gives in, resulting in more profit for the dealer (and a bigger commission for the salesperson, I suppose).

    Funnily enough, in more than a decade of buying new cars, the only time I had a salesperson who actually knew about the product was at Saturn in '94. There have been a couple of new Toyotas, one Subaru, and the Acura since then, and all those salespeople were "clueless".

    Actually, what irritates me more than a clueless salesperson is one who will start to make up answers to your questions, sounding knowledgeable the whole time. I don't know how many times I have been on ride-alongs with friends buying cars, and had to call the idiot on something he/she had just made up.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • jksledsonjksledson Member Posts: 14
    I'm willing to entertain this notion, as I usually get great probing questions like:

    "What's your favorite color?" (Maybe that's all most buyers care about.)

    How many salespeople can quickly and logically explain the model line they are selling? Explain at a high-level how features work within a specific product line?

    My guess is not too many...

    Is the job not profitable enough to make them care?
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    Salespeople are basically employed to play games with the customer and waste as much time as possible until the customer gives in, resulting in more profit for the dealer (and a bigger commission for the salesperson, I suppose).

    I don't think that is what the plan is upon employment, but in some cases and in the eyes of the consumer this is possible. I have had said many times before, that often times its is not the fault of the salesperson, it is the culture and the lack of training from the dealer. Go to an Audi store and unless the salesperson is brand new, it is required at that level of that the salesperson be knowlegeable about the product and if a question is asked that the salesperson does not know the answer, he or she knows where to find it. A good salesperson does not waste the customers time, because the more time that is wasted, the less likely the customer will commit, and the worse CSI is. There are many good salespeople out there, and the ones that are successful, did not become successful being "clueless" and waste customers time. :blush:
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    I've met some knowledgeable salesmen.

    I've also met some who would be better salesmen towards appliance-shoppers than towards me. But since most people are appliance-shoppers, I think those salesmen are good to have. A car nut will probably earn distrust upon going into detail...
  • jksledsonjksledson Member Posts: 14
    ABS?
    Air Bags?
    Xenon Headlights?
    Autodimming mirror?
    What options there are for satellite radio?
    Maintenance Schedules?

    What's important and what's not?
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    When ever I shop for a car, I call the dealer, ask for the salesmanager and tell them I am most likely going to buy a car from them, but I would like to talk to the most experienced and knowlegeable salesperson there. If he/she sticks me with a green pea or some one who is an idiot I leave. Speak up! You are not held hostage by these people and you can say it in a way not to offend anyone. Such as "I really think we have hit an impasse with this negotiation, Is there someone WE can talk to get things moving along in a direction to benefit both of us??"
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    They should know how to use every device in the car.

    They should know if it HAS the items you mentioned, or if not then whether they are options.

    They should know some basics - how many cylinders does the engine have? Approximate power output? Timing chain or belt? How many speeds in the auto tranny? What is the basic and (if applicable) powertrain warranty? Just for starters...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • jksledsonjksledson Member Posts: 14
    great suggestion on asking first. But you'll have to let down the 'sprinter' who runs up to you in the middle of the lot trying to claim you as his 'customer'.

    Why can't any of them explain what the 'post-sales' pitches are? Undercoating? Leather treatment? Exterior paint protection? Tire Warranty? Extended Warranty? I'd like to know if my monthly payment is going to bump up after I negotiate the sales prices.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    "Why can't any of them explain what the 'post-sales' pitches are? Undercoating? Leather treatment? Exterior paint protection? Tire Warranty? Extended Warranty? I'd like to know if my monthly payment is going to bump up after I negotiate the sales prices."

    Because most likely the salespeople don't care about this stuff...the F&I manager that "closes out the deal" with the paperwork is the one that pitches all of this stuff to the customer and makes commission off of it. I have had friends that sell cars tell about how they have lost money from the original deal they negotiated with the customer after their customer went in to meet with the F&I guy. In other words, the F&I guy lowered the price of the car that was negotiated between the sales person and the customer (therefor lowering the salesperson's commission), but then added on a the leather treatment, paint protection, etc... and made a commission off of it himself, and still increased the overall profit to the dealership.
  • jksledsonjksledson Member Posts: 14
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That's funny as hell....If I was a salesmen, I'd take the F&I guy to the back 40 of the parking lot for a good detailing !!!!!! :P
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    It took me a while to figure this out, but here it is:
    "Car Sales" is about "Sales". It is not nearly as much about cars.

    There are idiots everywhere, but good salespeople know their customers, and they know what they have to do... I'm sure good BMW or Porsche salespeople know their product, because many of their customers would value that.

    I'm equally sure that the skills required to successfully sell Kias are different.

    -Mathias
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    7*No
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    People who buy hi-line dont NEED a car.....People who buy KIAs NEED a car. Many of them are called "get me dones" as in "If you can get me done and payment is no more than 200 a month im in..."

    There are the few who appreciate the warranty and the price point..... :P

    As for the salesperson...they are there to get the customer to commit which isnt that hard because like I said they are need buyers, It is a pretty easy job I can imagine. But You would have to deal with alot of BAAAAAAD credit.
  • punkr77punkr77 Member Posts: 183
    I've always been amazed at the treatment I've gotten at dealers. I've only had a bad experience at one of their service departments, but have had a bad experience every time I've tried to buy a new car.

    When I went to purchase my first new car in 1995, I walked into the local Honda dealer, had a salesman walk up to me, and I told him exactly what I was looking for (95 Civic EX, red, manual). The salesman's reply: "you can't afford it" and he walked off without another word. I went to the next closest dealer and bought the same car the next day.

    When I went to buy my current car, I knew exactly the car I wanted (Mustang SVT Cobra). I went to the closest dealer, was standing in the showroom for 15 minutes before a salesman approached me. I said that I was interested in the car and asked what kind of deal he could cut me. His response: "you'll pay sticker". Well can you get me another color, I wanted a yellow one. His response: "They don't make them in yellow (lie) and we can't get another one." I then asked if I could take a test drive His response "Sure, if you sign something that says you'll buy it." I asked him if this didn't defeat the purpose of a TEST drive and he just shrugged. I walked out and ended up getting a used one with 4K miles on it and saved $5000.

    I wonder how many potential customers dealers just turn away. Every time I've bought a new car I've had to go to one or two dealers before I could even get a salesman that actually wanted to sell me a car.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Do they not make enough money to care to learn about what they are selling?

    I agree that salespeople should be well versed in their product and direct competition. But, based on my experience, the salespeople who have produced the best seem to know little or nothing about cars...they do know something about people and how to read people. That's not to say you can't be informed and good at sales.

    Despite what some on edmunds would like us to believe...people buy payments, options and color more than those nifty features that a well versed salesperson can point out.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    In my experience, most know damned little about their product or people. My business goes to the those who are the exception. I think my biggest gripe is that they simply don't listen, apparently being too busy trying to figure out what tack to take.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah that is very true. From a technical standpoint I know more about our vehicles then anyone else but the techs. Not only can I tell clients what the vehicles have I can explain how the fancy gizmos work too.

    I am not normaly the top salesman at our store. Some months I am the top one but on average I am not.
  • jaydee49jaydee49 Member Posts: 7
    Not sure where to post this but could use some advice. Dealer about 45-60 minutes away had the exact car in stock that I wanted so I made a trip there to take a look. Brought in my current car to trade in (I have about 6-8k in equity depending on value).

    Anyway, my main concern was getting an appraisal on my trade-in, since if they weren't going to offer me much I would keep the car, sell it for more on my own and come back with cash for the down payment.

    To make a long story short, after about 2 hours of haggling on trade in and car price, we can't come to a deal as they don't want to offer anything close to the KBB trade-in value, which is fine. They had a price after trade-in that they wanted to go, and I had my price and they were about $500 apart. Fair enough. I thank them for their time, and after going through the "wait, my GM wants to talk to you, etc." and them playing "hide the keys" we finally leave.

    Salesman calls back a week later, and basically says "we had your trade-in registration stapled to your paperwork and forgot to give it back to you. Can you come back down and get it?"

    Of course I don't buy this for a second, they intentionally kept it so I would have to come back (numerous other unsavory tactics when I was there earlier confirm this in my mind). I told them I needed it because I had people looking at the car that upcoming weekend (true) let alone if I get pulled over driving and told them to FedEx it to me, and they said they would. Of course, 2 weeks later I still don't have it. Do I have any recourse here? I am not going to spend 1.5-2 hours of my time and gas driving back there to get my registration back.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    "...Do I have any recourse here?..."

    Sure you do. Call the police and report that the dealer stole your registration. Then call the local investigative reporter at the TV station. Have the reporter go to the dealer with the cops. Should make for some fine TV. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Or just go to the DMV and pay a small fee to have the reg doc replaced.

    -mike
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Wonder if they would fax you a copy?

    You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get your own registration back.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Or call whatever state agency licenses dealers (it may even be the same one that issues registrations). File a complaint demanding instant action on the situation.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Are you sure you need that piece of paper to sell the car? All I think I would need is the title. In my state I've never needed the registration document for anything, but I know different states have different rules.

    In about 30 years of driving only once did police ask for registration, that was in AL...not sure if they do that routinely or if it was because I was from out of state. It did not matter that I did not have the paper, he just asked if I was the owner and if the address on my driver's license was correct and then I think he was able to check out the registration from his squad car.

    I think the only other states I've been pulled over in were IL and WI, never had request for registration in either one.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    as paisan said, get a copy. Cost me $5 here in NJ. Cheaper than Fedexing the old one.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,194
    "...Or just go to the DMV and pay a small fee..."

    But my way is more fun. ;)

    Seriously though, why should he have to pay anything? The dealer is just trying to get him back for more nonsense. Holding his keys hostage? Stealing his registration? He should have called the cops before he left the place.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yeah, and in NJ not being able to produce the registration when they pull you over is certainly a problem.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    oh yeah. what is that now? $180 ticket, i think.
    and they compound. $180 for not having your reg with you. $180 for not having your insurance card with you. $180 for not having your license on you. That's a nice $540 bill for the forgetful sort.

    and, mind you, for those outside of jersey reading this, it is not a fine for not having these things at all, but merely for not having them on you at the moment.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • exb0exb0 Member Posts: 539
    That reminds me of a story.

    A while ago I was pulled over by NJ state trooper doing 75 in 55 on the turnpike. The trooper asked for license and registration. I didn’t have the registration on me and told the cop that in VA we don’t have registration cards. He laughs and tells me: “Ye, right, like I have never pulled over VA cars before!” And, then he lets me go with a warning, not even a speeding ticket. :surprise:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    a trooper letting you go with 20 over? Man, you don't need any more detail than that. It is an incredible tale unto itself. ;b

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    I had a local police officer pull me over in PA (interstate 83) for doing 82 in a 55. I only got a warning. I guess I was lucky but still not sure how he clocked me since local police officers are not allowed to use radar.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    He PACED you. That's what the CHP in CA did for years. I don't know if they have radar now but for many years, they didn't.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Pennsylvania, huh?

    I was disappointed when they took down the signs that would tell you what the fine for a specific speed was. Kind of a "choose a speed within your price range" approach.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    I remember those signs when I first moved to PA back in 1989. The running joke was you speed up so people riding with you in the car didn't think you were cheap.

    PACED me huh? The issue I had was I wasn't going 82 (at least not at that point) and there were three cars that passed me two minutes before the cop stopped me. Either way, I only got a warning and it only held me up 10 minutes.
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