for the titan this week, and the F150 was by far the closest second place truck. the only real disappointment i have with the ford is the engine/safety. smooth ride, quiet, capable...but anemic on power and doesnt offer advance trac or side airbags! in 2004?!?!
is the amount of model choices available, specifically those with 8' beds. Also, F-150 Super Cabs with the 8' bed comes standard with an 8200 pound GVW. This almost matches that of the F-250 Super Duty in terms of GVW and payload. This 8200 GVW is also available in select regular cab/8' bed models too, as an option.
So, for the time being, Ford offers more to those who would use their truck as a "work vehicle."
in time, nissan will incorporate the LWB truck, but likely only for fleet sales. but even ford's regular cab has 4 doors now...that really illustrates the direction the cabs are going. research says that 85% of half-ton pickups are extended cab or crew cab.
also, the utility setup of the titan's bed allows for the bed extender, which extends the bed in the king cab to 8'6"...minus the rounded corners, though.
one difference also, is that the truck you describe has an MSRP of $28410, equipped like a titan king cab XE 2WD.
if you equip the titan with the utilitrak bed system, you actually get an 8' usable bed for about $2500 less.
Bowke28 I've noticed that you have started several Titan vs Competition discussions. More than reasonable. Could you be you this forum to drive sales/interest up? I appreciate a good debate about which product better serves our needs, but whats with the duplication of topics? Is there personal gain to be had?
no personal gain. most buyers live out of range of me, so its not realistic to waste time trying. these discussions are inevitably going to come up anyway, and being one of the few fully knowledgeable people here on the titan, i thought i would go ahead and start them. dont overthink things...i was bored too! ;-)
i have been in MANY discussions about my product, and other products, simply for informational purposes. if you were familiar with me, you would know that as well.
also, a discussion of ALL trucks under one title would be just about unmanageable by the hosts.
Bed extenders are great for golf clubs or groceries, but bad for cargo large cargo, like 4 wheelers, or sofas. The specs don't look too bad on the Titan, but we'll see what she'll do in the real world. Or basically if Oklahoma/Texas accepts it as the truck it's trying to be. Remember Tundra failed/fails in this department too, but I do admit the Titan looks to be much better than the Tundra.
king cab has a 6'7" bed with an extender that makes it 8'6". the curve in the extender doesnt happen either till 8'. also, those of you that have never seen the titan's utilitrak system, you are in for a treat...the idea that a work truck is defined by an 8' box is gonna be over. the accessories that come with the bed system will blow you away.
drive a titan with 305 HP next week...and a ford with 300...THEN you will realize the problem.
we have both a nissan franchise AND a very large ford franchise in a town that has 2 ford plants. 5 or 6 of our ford salespeople are ford retirees, and die hard domestic buyers, and 2 have already inquired into buying a titan. that should tell you something..
I just took a 2004 f150screw with a 5.4l out for a test drive and it was noticeably stronger than my equally equipped 2001 f150. So I am not sold on the anemic tales being spewed out by Nissan salesmen comparing the two motors. I'm in the market for a new truck and the Titan will be considered. However, I am also skeptical about a unproven truck, its motor, and its surrounding components. I will give the Titan a chance, but all this unproven pre hype I'm reading about it is hard to swallow.
Looking seriously at Titan. They just won Truck of the year from 4X4 mag or maybe 4 wheeler mag--- read that press release yesterday which claims they really test truck and do not sell the award like Motor Trend. Own Nissan Murano now and have 19000 miles on it and being first year for vehicle it is the best vehicle I have owned of now about 40 vehicles over the years. The info about this review of Titan can be found on freshalloy.com which is a Nissan site. Will keep Murano but need second vehicle to tow street rod to shows. Have been buying Nissan, Toyota and Honda for the last 10 years and been very happy but have had some perfect Chevy and Ford products but the horror stories I read about GM and Ford in these forums makes me reluctant to go back to them. Maybe some good positive stories about new Ford will make me look seriously at them. I like to looks of the 04 Ford also. Seems that Titan pricing may blow away equivalent Ford. Guess we will see. I look at quality first then price and if first year Titan is anything like first year Murano it will be fine. Think car companies now want their first year vehicle to be perfect if they can do that. Did not seem to be much positive to say about first year vehicles but my first year Toyota RAV4 was also perfect but too small.
There have been several reviewers of both the new F150 and the titan that have said the Titan feels much more powerful than the F150 with it's 5.4l V8. Several reviewers of the Ford have said that it feels "anemic" and underpowered. In some reviews months ago before the HP figures were released by Nissan, reviewers were saying it felt like it had more bang than the Dodge Hemi which has 345hp.
The word anemic was used by professional reviewers to describe the F150 not by anyone on this board.
As to the difference of 5 HP, that means squat. There are many ways for one vehicle to be more powerful than another with only a slight HP advantage. The first thing is obviously Torque. The second is gearing; rear-end, transmission specifically. The Ford has a 4 speed, the Nissan a five speed. That makes a difference!
Also, F150 XLT 4x4 Super crew with 5.5 foot box with the smaller 4.6l engine tips the scales at 5502lbs. The Nissan Supercrew 4x4 SE tips the scales at 5088 lbs with the 5.6l engine (according to Nissanusa.com specs posted Today). That is a 400lb weight difference without the bigger Ford engine. That also accounts for the power seemingly less as the HP to weight ratio is much better for the Titan!
A small note: To get the maximum tow capicity in the F150 of 9800 lbs, you must get a 4x2 (in my area, you tow with a 4x4). The maximum a 4x4 F150 can tow is 9300 lbs! I guess when you look at the numbers, in 4x4 mode Nissan does claim the better tow capacity than the Ford.
IMHO, the Ford isn't a new generation as they claim. It only has a four speed auto tranny, SOHC engine, it is very heavy, etc... The Titan is truly a new generation full size pickup truck, as Nissan claims! But that is only my opinion and I reached it by researching both the Ford and the Nissan.
I hope this answers your question about the Ford being anemic, in a manner speaking.
I have to recind my comment about nobody on this board referring to the Ford as anemic; but Bowke did. BUT, I still think he was right (see my last post). Just to add a little bit of ammo to my comment please see this review of the Tundra, F150 and Titan: http://www.nissanusa.com/m/pdf/Titan_FourWheeler_012004.pdf
They were scratching their head about how the Ford doesn't seem to have the power Ford says it does.
Now Saddaddy, go find an article that compares the power in the Titan and the F150 by road testing them and says they our equal. Otherwise, we can call the F150 anemic (maybe a little strong, but it makes a point).
With this bed extender in the Nissan, where is the center of gravity of the load in relationship to the rear axel if I load 2500 pounds of 4 X 8 sheets of drywall?
that the F150 has over the titan...that payload, however, is only for the long bed. with the supercrew or short bed, the payload is about the same as the titan.
Since you like Four Wheeler magazine so much where was the frontier in this one? http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/16558/ I love my tacoma, but even I had to take their test with a grain of salt here -- as should you with this litte article you guys keep strutting around? But if not, I guess you concede that my Tacoma is a better offroader than an H1??? Rock on!
Its all in good fun -- I just wish I had a bigger truck, "ultimate 4x4/king of offroad" or not.
I've carried 3300-3500 several times in my '01 GMC 2500HD ,which has a gross payload of 3600,and I wouldn't do that in the privious model F150 that we have at the shop.If the new F150 will do it that's an impressive half ton!
My trainer wheel remark was about bed extenders. It may very well be that the long bed F150 will carry 2500 lb of 4x8 sheets,but nothing with a bed extender is made to carry that kind of load and still steer.Not even the new Titan.
That was my point. I have a ten year old half ton GVWR 6200#, that weighs about 4500# empty. On a recent project I had 1800# of shingles and plywood on the back, and my wife and me in the cab. That put us about 400# over the gross weight rating, but there was still about 1/4 the empty distance between the axel and the rubber stops.
The rear axel on my truck is behind the center of the box. I have not check the new Titan, but most Japanese trucks I see have the axel slightly forward of the center of the box. These trucks are less safe when overloaded (as we all do occasionally) than most domestic trucks.
For a driveway queen it makes no difference, but if you do large projects from time to time, the abilty to safely handle some overload is important.
While I prefer GM trucks from a personal point of view, the new Ford is an impressive truck.
There's more to a vehicle than just the initial power ratings, or how much it can haul, and all depends upon the priorities of the consumer's. Given the fact that a greater number of people will probably stick to jumping curbs and medians with these vehicles, such number's might not be a selling point for most consumer's.
Having driven both, the F-150 in my opinion is clearly ahead in many aspects. The interior by far as set the benchmark in material quality, and this is something echoed by almost every auto journalist in the industry. I was not impressed with the Titan's GM-like plasticky interior which is becoming a Nissan trademark in it's recent vehicles.
Overall the ride/comfort/quietness/solidity of the F-150 is much greater than that of the Titan in my opinion. Something that the majority of consumer's will appreciate and look for.
Also helps having so many configurations and 5 alternative interiors to choose from, but again, that's subjective towards the needs of some consumer's although it's nice to have those choices present if need be. And because of this, it's not hard to understand why the F-150 has the highest returning consumer's in it's class, and why it's been a sales leader for around 20 years.
I do think the Titan is a good strong effort from a manufacturer's first try in that segment (unlike Toyota's 7th/8th approach) and would place it 2nd behind the F-150 (in a spot were GM would have placed in).
Anyone that thinks truck buyers are impressed by 0-60 times is in for an education. Ford trucks have supposedly been "anemic" compared to the competition for the last decade yet sales haven't been hurt. It's having the power available when it matters that counts. Maybe the Titan has it, maybe it doesn't. But magazine numbers mean nothing. GM brags up the power of its Vortecs and Dodge does the same with its Hemi. Hitch a 5000 lb trailer to those and they are left trailing an "anemic" F-150.
Bed extenders? They are one of those things that looks great on the showroom floor but end up in a corner of the garage.
at the Motor Trend auto show in Vegas. From a cab perspective, I'm sorry, (acknowledging my Ford bias), the F-150 is class leading by a mile IMO. What a totally awesome interior! Almost as appealing as my Navigator! The Titan, OTOH, was highly disappointing inside. Will look forward to driving them both and comparing. But the #1 thing with me in purchasing a vehicle, is how I feel when I sit inside. If it feels like home, (driving position, comfort, seat, etc.) and the dash, which is what I see when I drive, don't know about y'all, I'm usually a customer. If it doesn't excite me, I move on. The F-150 got a WoW! The Titan, didn't.
I sat in a F150 a month or so back - I was very unimpressed - in fact both my wife and I thought it was kinda crappy. Haven't been able to see a Titan yet, so I can't compare as nvbanker did, but the F150 was not awsome!
some people, no matter how wrong they are, ;-) will like stuff that others dont. nvbanker...once you check out the mechanicals, im sure you will reconsider. also, sit in the back seats. the ford still has the cardboard box-style back seat, where the titan's is reclined properly.
Since everone is entitled to their own opinion, I'll add mine ;-) I think that Ford did a very nice, clean job with the redesign. Yeah there are somethings that are still from the last generation F-150 such as the transmission, but it is a very strong 4-Speed unit. Why argue with success? Overall I also am very impressed by the interior(s), though I must say that I haven't actually sat in one. However, from what I have seen peering in the window they look well thought out. Plus you have 5 to choose from! The owners whom have posted in the "New Cars" protion of this website seem particulaly pleased with the interior, especially those with the upper Lariat trim. Which to me is the most impressive of the 5. While I will acknowledge that Nissan did a good job with its homework for the Titan, I am a Ford guy, and because of the bias there I see the F-150 as the best pick-up offering out in the current market. I guess I also feel more comfortable with liking the F-150 because Ford has had more experience in building a good, reliable, full size pickup (the last generation has consistently scored very well in CR's reliability ratings). Anyway, those are just my thoughts, and will probably stay my thoughts despite what some may say about my post ;-) And Folks, the main thing is that you are happy with your purchase whatever that be, and that is all that counts. So if you don't like the F-150 and you think the Titan is 100x better, then I am cool with that! Enjoy!
Styling is subjective... that depends upon the persons taste. But interior materials go beyond that point idealism, onto what is actually an item that is benchmarked for it's quality. Just as VW/Audi receive numerous praise for it's interior quality/materials.
Here's some example of it's interior quality in materials from some auto-journalists....
...."That cabin is amazingly quiet, too. The bottom line is that the new interiors really make the competition look dreary and old-fashioned. "...
...."Then he peeked into the cabin of the ritzy Lariat model and said it reminded him of a Land Rover, it was so gorgeous. So it was a very positive experience all the way around. "...
...."I've driven all the competitors in recent weeks, including the new Nissan Titan and the upcoming Toyota Tundra Double Cab. They're pretty good trucks. The F-150 is better. No, let me correct that. The new F-150 is the best truck money can buy. Period. "...
...."After several hundred miles of driving and riding over a variety of Texas terrain, my overwhelming impression is that the 2004 Ford F-150 is the best America has to offer. "....
...."the result is a near-world-class interior that leaves the other guys in the dust. "....
...."The mid-level XLT is classier than most of the premium trucks from the Chrysler Group's Dodge brand and General Motors Corp., while the high-end FX4 and Lariat are simply best in class. "....
...."One surprise was the quietness of the cabin, particularly at freeway speeds"....
...."If you're inclined to spend that much money on a pickup, at least you can take comfort in knowing that you're getting the best truck that money can buy. "....
...."there's little doubt that this truck sets new standards for full-size pickups when it comes to cabin design, ride and handling and load-carrying capacity."....
...."Build quality on our early build test trucks was impressive. Door panels didn't budge an inch when pressed upon and dashboard gaps were straight and of close tolerance. Materials quality is also better than before, with none of the glaringly cheap plastics that detracted from the previous model's interior."....
...."When it comes to providing an upscale experience, the Lariat has the current competition beat hands down."....
...." The result is exceptional ride quality and sharp handling for a vehicle of its size"....
...."Quality comes from design as well as materials, and elements like the stereo controls are much more pleasing."....
...." Perhaps the most appreciable improvement in the F-150 is its interior design. Ford Motor Co. has made interiors a priority, and the results are already clear on the 2003 Expedition and Lincoln’s Navigator (see the First Drive) and Aviator."....
...."The F-150’s interior designs are a masterstroke in a market in which luxury is in heavy demand."....
...."One of the most exciting elements of the F-150's design brief is an upgraded interior look and specification. "....
...."The Lariat and FX4 are the most impressive, with metal-trimmed gauges and bright door handles and levers that recall the look of premium Euro sedans"....
...." and resets the meter at an altogether higher level in terms of light-duty-truck interior design and execution."....
...."Inside, the massive center console, finely wrought instrument cluster, and delectable trim materials prompt a search for the hidden Lincoln logo."....
One Titan specific article which uses the F-150 as the benchmark and recommends the F-150 overall.
...." The 2004 Titan full-size pickup truck is Nissan's ticket to the major leagues. Although the preproduction trucks I tested fall short of the benchmark new Ford F150 in some areas,"....
...." The curious thing is this: Although the Titan handily beats the F150 on paper -- more power, more room, better fuel economy -- the Ford turns out to be the better vehicle. "....
...."It also has shortcomings, including more noise and vibration than the F150 and a less composed ride over bumpy surfaces. "....
...."Some of the interior materials felt a bit cheap in such a carefully designed truck however, particularly the thin and fibrous headliner and the plastic map pockets at the bottom of the doors. "....
...."The truck is not as quiet as the F150"....
...." The ride is also slightly less smooth than the F150's"....
Careful how you interpret things! most of the articles you refer to were done in the summer. They only had some crdue prototypes of the Titan to compare too, and some didn't even look at the Titan.
Also, several of your articles pick apart the F150 interior eg:
"Although we logged a relatively modest number of miles, the seats became tiresome regardless of trim level, and we found it strange that even the upgraded leather captain's chairs still use manual adjusters for the seat back angle and lumbar support. The climate control dials look good but feel cheap, same goes for the door handles — both being items that we think should have a good, solid feel considering how often you touch them. We also found the turn signal stalk hard to reach, the grab handles too far away and relatively few storage compartments. "
This came from the Edmunds article you posted.
All I am saying is you are showing articles on Prototype Titans. I suggest you wait and see some new articles on head to head comparisons.
"All I am saying is you are showing articles on Prototype Titans. I suggest you wait and see some new articles on head to head comparisons. "
The most you can place blame on prototypes might be fit of components, a few suspension tuning components, and computer related/software management pertaining to shift quality/responsiveness, etc. Prototypes WILL carry the same interior finishes as the final product and that was my point of those posts, I'm in the industry so I would know.
While they all will nitpick one item or another, being no vehicle will be perfect, and ALL vehicles will have one flaw or another...the perfect vehicle has not yet been built... the point was that the F-150 definately has the better interior quality/materials....Prototype or not. Some of those articles also had "prototype" F-150's as well, so I threw those into the mix.
"try looking at the recent 4-wheeler magazine article"
And while one article won't tell the whole story, I threw in numerous sources, many different backrounds, different journalists, different circumstances, etc. Someone would have to be denial not to accept the fact that the F-150 has the best interior materials/presentation/quality. And that was the objective of my post.
I guess it's what ya like. Me, I love the Ford. I love the interior, I love the 3V engine. I love the rack & pinion steering. I'm sure the Titan will be a fine truck too. But you heard it here first folks, that F-150 is gonna sell a million.........
Hey, Iike the looks of the F150 as well, and I believe the interior is top notch. BUT, have you guys sat in the back seat??? When I sat in the back seat of the new F150, the back seat felt stiff like a board, the setback angle is not very good. A person's back would hurt after about 30 minutes of driving. Why in the world Ford would not design a comfortable back seat for a crewcab is beyond me. Also, NO side airbags, which is also surprising. Since, side airbags have been proven to increase safety.
The vehicle weighs over 5500lbs, I'm not worried about side airbags. I've bought vehicles without side/airbags when side airbags were being introduced in competitors vehicles. At some point it'll be phased in I'm sure. At least for me it's not a deal breaker (like red interior instrumentation is for me).
I didn't sit in the back seat, but I don't sit in the back of my Gator either, nonetheless, my clients do, so guess that matters. From the power seat though, it's a lovely view. I also love the torque being 80% available at 1000 rpm.
It seems a lot of truck owners are affected by brand loyalty. I'm coming new into this truck stuff sort of.
IMO the big 3 & now Nissan are all pretty close in specs. Yah, they each jostle for bragging rights; one may have 300lb capacity advantage, another 1 sec faster to 60mph,another 3/4" more ground clearance..etc. Percentage wise though, the differences IMO really are minute.
The f150 looks nice enough, but driver door enter/exit was horrible. That gallon sized cup holder & tray at the bottom of the door you have to get your foot past by just to get into the truck was annoying. Not to bad when you can open the door wide at autoshow; but in day to day parking spaces,garage etc; entrance/exit would be difficult at best. This may sound trivial, but mistakes that obvious are ridiculous.
Someone mentioned "that just right" feeling. That was my experience with the Titan. I agree,all the trucks have advantage but like a good shoe, try it for some time before you buy. I made that mistake with 7/8ths Tundra.
you're just a domestic car bigot. All the Domestic trucks are darn good, as you sort of imply, so the fact that you would buy a Tundra rather than a real truck, and now will take another chance on the Titan, after being dissatisfied with the Tundra, tells me that you just like foreign steel better. No problem. But, your opinion of the Ford won't ever be positive unless we change the badge on it to a Japanese name. Therefore, let's call your critique what it is - you don't like American cars, rather than you can't get in and out of the Ford.
You should get the Titan, because you won't be happy in anything else. I can't explain this phenomenon, but it's a real one. It's the same way I feel in a Chevy. Just don't like 'em. And, I admit it.
The best defend for stability control is the idiot driving the vehicle. If someone can make one of these vehicles lose control, they need to be OFF the road.... Personally, I think they should die. :-)
Majority of buyer's will opt. for 4WD if they are concerned about traction. From my experience, many have their Anti-Skid Systems turned off in their vehicles not knowing what it does exactly. Whereas 4WD is something most understand (no matter what age demographic). Having Stability Control system doesn't hurt, see it as an added benefit your paying for.
But this is part of the "this has this, this has that" nitpicking that in reality won't sway the consumer much. let's not forget the hardcore demographic and extremly loyal buyer's in this segment, and a few features here or there isn't enough to prove much for them.
you obviously dont have children...if you did, the airbag debacle with the f150 would bother you to no end. MOST, not ALL, buyers will have families with children in the trucks. the fact that ford left something this pertinent to the market out of a brand new vehicle makes me wonder what else they "forgot".
I think that may be a little, no a lot overly stated. How about we say, that it may be of some concern to some individuals in the market for a full-size pickup?
Comments
So, for the time being, Ford offers more to those who would use their truck as a "work vehicle."
Bob
also, the utility setup of the titan's bed allows for the bed extender, which extends the bed in the king cab to 8'6"...minus the rounded corners, though.
one difference also, is that the truck you describe has an MSRP of $28410, equipped like a titan king cab XE 2WD.
if you equip the titan with the utilitrak bed system, you actually get an 8' usable bed for about $2500 less.
i have been in MANY discussions about my product, and other products, simply for informational purposes. if you were familiar with me, you would know that as well.
also, a discussion of ALL trucks under one title would be just about unmanageable by the hosts.
about your product? Do you make these trucks?
What kind of extender are you talking about?
we have both a nissan franchise AND a very large ford franchise in a town that has 2 ford plants. 5 or 6 of our ford salespeople are ford retirees, and die hard domestic buyers, and 2 have already inquired into buying a titan. that should tell you something..
but back on topic...GMC/Chevy?
SWIFT.....
The word anemic was used by professional reviewers to describe the F150 not by anyone on this board.
As to the difference of 5 HP, that means squat. There are many ways for one vehicle to be more powerful than another with only a slight HP advantage. The first thing is obviously Torque. The second is gearing; rear-end, transmission specifically. The Ford has a 4 speed, the Nissan a five speed. That makes a difference!
Also, F150 XLT 4x4 Super crew with 5.5 foot box with the smaller 4.6l engine tips the scales at 5502lbs. The Nissan Supercrew 4x4 SE tips the scales at 5088 lbs with the 5.6l engine (according to Nissanusa.com specs posted Today). That is a 400lb weight difference without the bigger Ford engine. That also accounts for the power seemingly less as the HP to weight ratio is much better for the Titan!
A small note: To get the maximum tow capicity in the F150 of 9800 lbs, you must get a 4x2 (in my area, you tow with a 4x4). The maximum a 4x4 F150 can tow is 9300 lbs! I guess when you look at the numbers, in 4x4 mode Nissan does claim the better tow capacity than the Ford.
IMHO, the Ford isn't a new generation as they claim. It only has a four speed auto tranny, SOHC engine, it is very heavy, etc... The Titan is truly a new generation full size pickup truck, as Nissan claims! But that is only my opinion and I reached it by researching both the Ford and the Nissan.
I hope this answers your question about the Ford being anemic, in a manner speaking.
http://www.nissanusa.com/m/pdf/Titan_FourWheeler_012004.pdf
They were scratching their head about how the Ford doesn't seem to have the power Ford says it does.
Now Saddaddy, go find an article that compares the power in the Titan and the F150 by road testing them and says they our equal. Otherwise, we can call the F150 anemic (maybe a little strong, but it makes a point).
Harry
Most folks don't put that in thier long bed half ton.
Does that bed extender come with trainer wheels?
kip
plus this:
i drove both back-to-back
The F-150 is the new standard everyone else compares to.
Harry
Since you like Four Wheeler magazine so much where was the frontier in this one?
http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/16558/
I love my tacoma, but even I had to take their test with a grain of salt here -- as should you with this litte article you guys keep strutting around? But if not, I guess you concede that my Tacoma is a better offroader than an H1??? Rock on!
Its all in good fun -- I just wish I had a bigger truck, "ultimate 4x4/king of offroad" or not.
My trainer wheel remark was about bed extenders. It may very well be that the long bed F150 will carry 2500 lb of 4x8 sheets,but nothing with a bed extender is made to carry that kind of load and still steer.Not even the new Titan.
kip
The rear axel on my truck is behind the center of the box. I have not check the new Titan, but most Japanese trucks I see have the axel slightly forward of the center of the box. These trucks are less safe when overloaded (as we all do occasionally) than most domestic trucks.
For a driveway queen it makes no difference, but if you do large projects from time to time, the abilty to safely handle some overload is important.
While I prefer GM trucks from a personal point of view, the new Ford is an impressive truck.
Harry
Having driven both, the F-150 in my opinion is clearly ahead in many aspects. The interior by far as set the benchmark in material quality, and this is something echoed by almost every auto journalist in the industry. I was not impressed with the Titan's GM-like plasticky interior which is becoming a Nissan trademark in it's recent vehicles.
Overall the ride/comfort/quietness/solidity of the F-150 is much greater than that of the Titan in my opinion. Something that the majority of consumer's will appreciate and look for.
Also helps having so many configurations and 5 alternative interiors to choose from, but again, that's subjective towards the needs of some consumer's although it's nice to have those choices present if need be. And because of this, it's not hard to understand why the F-150 has the highest returning consumer's in it's class, and why it's been a sales leader for around 20 years.
I do think the Titan is a good strong effort from a manufacturer's first try in that segment (unlike Toyota's 7th/8th approach) and would place it 2nd behind the F-150 (in a spot were GM would have placed in).
Bed extenders? They are one of those things that looks great on the showroom floor but end up in a corner of the garage.
I think that Ford did a very nice, clean job with the redesign. Yeah there are somethings that are still from the last generation F-150 such as the transmission, but it is a very strong 4-Speed unit. Why argue with success? Overall I also am very impressed by the interior(s), though I must say that I haven't actually sat in one. However, from what I have seen peering in the window they look well thought out. Plus you have 5 to choose from! The owners whom have posted in the "New Cars" protion of this website seem particulaly pleased with the interior, especially those with the upper Lariat trim. Which to me is the most impressive of the 5.
While I will acknowledge that Nissan did a good job with its homework for the Titan, I am a Ford guy, and because of the bias there I see the F-150 as the best pick-up offering out in the current market. I guess I also feel more comfortable with liking the F-150 because Ford has had more experience in building a good, reliable, full size pickup (the last generation has consistently scored very well in CR's reliability ratings). Anyway, those are just my thoughts, and will probably stay my thoughts despite what some may say about my post ;-)
And Folks, the main thing is that you are happy with your purchase whatever that be, and that is all that counts. So if you don't like the F-150 and you think the Titan is 100x better, then I am cool with that! Enjoy!
Here's some example of it's interior quality in materials from some auto-journalists....
...."That cabin is amazingly quiet, too. The bottom line is that the new interiors really make the competition look dreary and old-fashioned. "...
...."Then he peeked into the cabin of the ritzy Lariat model and said it reminded him of a Land Rover, it was so gorgeous. So it was a very positive experience all the way around. "...
...."I've driven all the competitors in recent weeks, including the new Nissan Titan and the upcoming Toyota Tundra Double Cab. They're pretty good trucks. The F-150 is better. No, let me correct that. The new F-150 is the best truck money can buy. Period. "...
...."
Article: New F-150 is a 5-star truck all the way
http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=10- 951
...."After several hundred miles of driving and riding over a variety of Texas terrain, my overwhelming impression is that the 2004 Ford F-150 is the best America has to offer. "....
...."the result is a near-world-class interior that leaves the other guys in the dust. "....
...."The mid-level XLT is classier than most of the premium trucks from the Chrysler Group's Dodge brand and General Motors Corp., while the high-end FX4 and Lariat are simply best in class. "....
...."One surprise was the quietness of the cabin, particularly at freeway speeds"....
...."If you're inclined to spend that much money on a pickup, at least you can take comfort in knowing that you're getting the best truck that money can buy. "....
Article: Ford F-150 gets major makeover for 2004
http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=10- 900
...."there's little doubt that this truck sets new standards for full-size pickups when it comes to cabin design, ride and handling and load-carrying capacity."....
...."Build quality on our early build test trucks was impressive. Door panels didn't budge an inch when pressed upon and dashboard gaps were straight and of close tolerance. Materials quality is also better than before, with none of the glaringly cheap plastics that detracted from the previous model's interior."....
...."When it comes to providing an upscale experience, the Lariat has the current competition beat hands down."....
...." The result is exceptional ride quality and sharp handling for a vehicle of its size"....
Article: Motor City Meal Ticket
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/ford/f150/100313505/roadtestartic- le.html?articleId=100353
...."Quality comes from design as well as materials, and elements like the stereo controls are much more pleasing."....
...." Perhaps the most appreciable improvement in the F-150 is its interior design. Ford Motor Co. has made interiors a priority, and the results are already clear on the 2003 Expedition and Lincoln’s Navigator (see the First Drive) and Aviator."....
...."The F-150’s interior designs are a masterstroke in a market in which luxury is in heavy demand."....
Article: First Drive F-150
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?szc=33174&srv=parser&am- p;act=display&tf=/features/mvp/ford/f150/f150_overview.tmpl
...."Seat materials, whether vinyl, cloth, or the leather standard (heated optional) in Lariat, are the best we've seen in a pickup."....
...." The new Ford truck has the coolest, most carlike interior in the industry, "....
Article: MotorTrends First Look
http://www.motortrend.com/motor/roadtests/pickup/112_0303_fut_f15- 0
...."One of the most exciting elements of the F-150's design brief is an upgraded interior look and specification. "....
...."The Lariat and FX4 are the most impressive, with metal-trimmed gauges and bright door handles and levers that recall the look of premium Euro sedans"....
...." and resets the meter at an altogether higher level in terms of light-duty-truck interior design and execution."....
Article: Motortrend First Drive
http://www.motortrend.com/motor/roadtests/pickup/112_0308_f150
...."Inside, the massive center console, finely wrought instrument cluster, and delectable trim materials prompt a search for the hidden Lincoln logo."....
Article: Driven
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0308_driven_f150/index.html
One Titan specific article which uses the F-150 as the benchmark and recommends the F-150 overall.
...." The 2004 Titan full-size pickup truck is Nissan's ticket to the major leagues. Although the preproduction trucks I tested fall short of the benchmark new Ford F150 in some areas,"....
...." The curious thing is this: Although the Titan handily beats the F150 on paper -- more power, more room, better fuel economy -- the Ford turns out to be the better vehicle. "....
...."It also has shortcomings, including more noise and vibration than the F150 and a less composed ride over bumpy surfaces. "....
...."Some of the interior materials felt a bit cheap in such a carefully designed truck however, particularly the thin and fibrous headliner and the plastic map pockets at the bottom of the doors. "....
...."The truck is not as quiet as the F150"....
...." The ride is also slightly less smooth than the F150's"....
Article: Remember the Titan: Full-size pickup from Nissan, due in December, rivals Ford's new F150
http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan21_20030821.htm
Also, several of your articles pick apart the F150 interior eg:
"Although we logged a relatively modest number of miles, the seats became tiresome regardless of trim level, and we found it strange that even the upgraded leather captain's chairs still use manual adjusters for the seat back angle and lumbar support. The climate control dials look good but feel cheap, same goes for the door handles — both being items that we think should have a good, solid feel considering how often you touch them. We also found the turn signal stalk hard to reach, the grab handles too far away and relatively few storage compartments. "
This came from the Edmunds article you posted.
All I am saying is you are showing articles on Prototype Titans. I suggest you wait and see some new articles on head to head comparisons.
The most you can place blame on prototypes might be fit of components, a few suspension tuning components, and computer related/software management pertaining to shift quality/responsiveness, etc. Prototypes WILL carry the same interior finishes as the final product and that was my point of those posts, I'm in the industry so I would know.
While they all will nitpick one item or another, being no vehicle will be perfect, and ALL vehicles will have one flaw or another...the perfect vehicle has not yet been built... the point was that the F-150 definately has the better interior quality/materials....Prototype or not. Some of those articles also had "prototype" F-150's as well, so I threw those into the mix.
"try looking at the recent 4-wheeler magazine article"
And while one article won't tell the whole story, I threw in numerous sources, many different backrounds, different journalists, different circumstances, etc. Someone would have to be denial not to accept the fact that the F-150 has the best interior materials/presentation/quality. And that was the objective of my post.
Thank you
IMO the big 3 & now Nissan are all pretty close in specs. Yah, they each jostle for bragging rights; one may have 300lb capacity advantage, another 1 sec faster to 60mph,another 3/4" more ground clearance..etc. Percentage wise though, the differences IMO really are minute.
The f150 looks nice enough, but driver door enter/exit was horrible. That gallon sized cup holder & tray at the bottom of the door you have to get your foot past by just to get into the truck was annoying. Not to bad when you can open the door wide at autoshow; but in day to day parking spaces,garage etc; entrance/exit would be difficult at best. This may sound trivial, but mistakes that obvious are ridiculous.
Someone mentioned "that just right" feeling. That was my experience with the Titan. I agree,all the trucks have advantage but like a good shoe, try it for some time before you buy. I made that mistake with 7/8ths Tundra.
You should get the Titan, because you won't be happy in anything else. I can't explain this phenomenon, but it's a real one. It's the same way I feel in a Chevy. Just don't like 'em. And, I admit it.
Majority of buyer's will opt. for 4WD if they are concerned about traction. From my experience, many have their Anti-Skid Systems turned off in their vehicles not knowing what it does exactly. Whereas 4WD is something most understand (no matter what age demographic). Having Stability Control system doesn't hurt, see it as an added benefit your paying for.
But this is part of the "this has this, this has that" nitpicking that in reality won't sway the consumer much. let's not forget the hardcore demographic and extremly loyal buyer's in this segment, and a few features here or there isn't enough to prove much for them.
I think that may be a little, no a lot overly stated. How about we say, that it may be of some concern to some individuals in the market for a full-size pickup?