Toyota Tundra vs. Nissan Titan

bowke28

ok...pf_flyer...the titan is out now. please let us talk about it.

triat

As a Tundra "access cab" owner, I figured I would in time move up to the new Double Cab.

Then at the Austin Autoshow sometime ago there was the new Double Cab sitting close to the CrewCab Titan. The Double Cab wasn't even out yet, and the Titan was a prototype.

Nevertheless it was pretty obvious the differences sitting in one after the other back and forth a number of times. First, the Double Cab from the driver's position felt almost identical to my Access Cab, except the DC looked really long to the back, & it was hard to see over the high tailgate. And I'm 6'1. The biggest impression was how much more ergonimic the Titan was. While I feel like I have to adjust my body to the Tundra, everything just feels better in the Titan. The adjustable pedals are a nice touch.

From then on I started Titan research in detail. Later driving an early delivery Titan finally changed my mind. Now I'm buying one!

Tundra is a good truck, I just think the Titan is that much better.

jcmdie

Well I suppose that the Titan is officially out, but you couldn't sell me on the fact that it is out. I was out yesterday making a delivery and was near one of the larger Nissan dealers in the area. Not only did they not have any shipped to them yet, but Nissan has informed them that it could be another month before they see any. All that advertising on TV is pretty well wasted on a product that isn't really here. I got a nice broschure to look at. The truck will have a few very nice features and a few not so nice.

bowke28

i agree...my dealership is one of the largest on the zone, and we were just told that we MIGHT get ONE by the end of the month. i think nissan is dropping the ball

triat

Manufacturers do have target markets. For example manufacturers tend to supply first trucks to Texas market. Car manufacturers like BMW,MB first focus on California, East Coast, & some high income cities like Dallas.

Then there is supply/demand, and shipping. Initial demand on a solid product like Titan will outstrip initial production. Then there is shipping logistics. I know from prior similar situations, where vehicles get railed through extra ports on seemingly endless careening routes to reach what would otherwise be a short or straight shot from assembly.

However not getting one of the new models for a whole month seems extreme, even for the largest dealer in a zone. Maybe the dealer is not so large afterall...

kg11

They are building up enough stock to avoid the kind of price gouging that comes with short supply of a popular vehicle like what happened when Mazda first introduced the Miata.

Another posibility is a pre-production recall like what GM did with thier "01 HD series. It was six months late to hit the dealers and another year to work out the bugs.
 I sincerly hope this is not the case.

kip

bowke28

"Maybe the dealer is not so large afterall.."

we are 2nd in the zone in volume, and just spent $4 million to build the largest facility in the nation. we get alot of favors from nissan for that. also, the regional rep. told us that we would have the 'first and most' titans in the zone.

so far, noone has any, so thats SOME consolation. ;-)

admasters

They are out here (Atlanta area) and at several dealerships. I have read that Nissan is only introducing them into the market at 3 cities and Atlanta is one of them. Then judging from the success/failure/comments, they can make changes during production.

bowke28

im in louisville, and we will get our 1st one on the 15th. XE king cab 4X4.

triat

I've heard the same about target markets from several other sources also.

I also think Nissan is making changes. I seem to remember Nissan announcing mostly KCab's in November-December, then Ccab's starting month later, like December or January.

Other than prototype Kcab at Austin Autoshow early November, I haven't seen a KCab since. Only CCab's coming in; and they're selling...

bowke28

yeah...thats what is so irritating. they are selling ELSEWHERE. its like im reaching for a paycheck, and its just past my fingertips! ;-)

triat

but when Toyota was negotiating last Spring with San Antonio for it's huge manufacturing plant to build new Tundra's(& I believe Tundra engines); combined with the fact this is pickup country; I believe Nissan decided to come out strong in the Hill Country.

All the parts & vendors companies for Toyota are scouring the Hill Country towns for sites. One company today announced 100 new jobs for Georgetown.

I know in competition you go for the pass or meet the competition head-on if you can make it stick, and when there's a good opportunity.

triat

Bowke, I can imagine the huge frustration. Are you getting any build sheets? If so, is the KC the only one coming in?

bowke28

is the only one we know about for now.

triat...we have no clue about the delay. everything we were told before december 1st was that we would be ready for launch. we have had no solid answers to the reason for our delay.

keanec

Ya know, I have read a lot of P releases and other stuff and never once did I read that the Titan will be available everywhere Dec 1st. The impressions I got were they were being released in select markets Dec 1st and then gradually introduced throughout the US throughout Dec. Maybe we were all just wanting it faster than we were being told.

But, hang in there, they will come and people will but from you Bowke. Don't worry about the customers that are leaving for the other trucks right now, because you will still be able to sell all you will be allowed to get...and that's the problem...you won't get as much as you want.

My nissan dealer is very sad they are only getting one a month (especially being in truck country!) But they have to live with it as Nissan is not flooding the market to start off with...they are rampning up slowly. This has the effect of building demand.

motownusa

When is the new Tundra coming out? 05 or 06? Is it really going to have 300+Hp?

daily_output

Nissan is only releasing the Titan in 10 major cities at first. Washington, D.C. is one of them, the others are mostly southern, midwest cities and Cali. New York is not one of the 10 cities. I have seen a truck carrying Titans around D.C. two days in a row so we have them around here. The first truck had KC Titans, Armadas, Quests and I think Maximas. The second trailer was stricly carrying Armadas and Titans with some Crew Cabs on board.

rsholland

just outside of DC had two dark green Titan SE King Cabs on their lot yesterday.

Bob

lsmith9231

I just got back from Winchester, Va and can you believe they have 7 Titans! All of them 4x4, 2 were crew cabs, 5 king cabs, either SE or LE...one LE was Loaded w/ a sticker of $41k. They were trying to sell for MSRP, so I'll wait 2 or 3 months until they come to their senses!

tom224

bowke? why do you not have any titans yet. I am in houston, we received 6 from our fisrt shipment and currently have 14 in stock. people are going nuts over this truck. I've sold three so far and have four waiting for specifics coming.

tom224

these trucks are about $3,000 less than comparably equipped competitors. Why wait?

toetruck

Hey MR./MS.Host,... Thought this was supposed to be a Tundra vs.Nissan(Renault)Titan board ? Looks like a Nissan(Renault) Titan salesperson "Love Fest" to me !!??

kg11

The Tundra didn't offer much competition.

obyone

It should be renamed to Tundra vs. Dakota topic. May get more responses that way.....hmmm why does this all sound familiar?

motownusa

The new Tundra will be more than a match for the Titan with its 5.5L 300+hp engine. Just wait another 10 months

bowke28

renault was nothing more than cash to nissan in '98. they have no input on products, and do not have controlling interest. kinda like a sugar daddy! ;-)

rosey4

I saw the messae above regarding the 2005 Tundra. Can anyone confirm whether Toyota plans to build the 2005 Tundra with more horsepower? I really like the Toyota Tundra Double Cab, and actually plan to purchase one, but I may wait, should Toyota build one with more horsepower. Does anyone know what Toyota's timeframe is?

toetruck

Hey Bowke 28, ...where I come from the "Golden Rule" is "the guy with the gold makes the rules". Who intro'd the Nissan(Renault)Titan last year at the auto shows? AAAAA.. a guy named Carlos Goshen, check who he works for, I don't think it's Asia,looks like a French Connection to me. Sorry it's a Renault.

bowke28

carlos is nissan's design specialist. he works for nissan, and has worked for other american/japanese companies before as well.

and actually, he's belgian.

you can also find, on nissan-global.com, the actual relationship between nissan and renault.

p.s. the golden rule? since nissan still holds 69.2%, that means they make their own rules, huh?

kg11

Are you shopping for, or do you own a "truck" at all?

Or did you come here from one of the other toyota boards to tell the world they don't know how to shop?

Do you mean to imply that only aisians can sell aisian cars in America?

Do you have a question to ask or any valid information to offer?

PF_Flyer

Try to avoid falling into the trap of making the discussions about each other.

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

bowke28

as long as you dont close the thread again!

;-)

toetruck

The previous messages make my point in #22. Thanks. I own a 1988 toyota p'up, 1990 4 Runner, 2001 Sequoia , 2003 Avalon, great vehicles. I'm just an interested observer in the "second coming" of Nissan.

triat

My choices came down to the Tundra Dc or the Titan CC. I thought F150 too much a gamble Ford 1st year model, for me. C1500 nice drivetrain, but I didn't like questionable quality or sopha style foam seats with no support. Ram 1500 nice styling but engineering suspect, come on, two wheel ABS?

My above discriptions are simplified for brevity.

Sitting in a Tundra DC at an Autoshow, I realized several ergonomic problems for me similar for my Access Cab. 1.) The floor to roof height distance still too low. It's still awkward with my dimensions to find a comfortable position for longer periods. It seems best designed for 5'6"-5'10",or if taller have shorter legs. 2.) Toyota claims DC is wider, but I think everything(front seats,dash,center console) still all a tight fit. I think the 1 1/2" was added between the door & seat of each side, not in the middle... 3.) In light of #1, no adjustable pedals or telescope steering to accomodate wider range of drivers? Nor footrest or place to put driver's left foot 4.) Same engine as Access Cab? I disagree with Bowke, my V-8 Access Cab way powerful, however with additional 300-400lbs base weight of DC? 5.)My turning radius is similar to full sized trucks! For DC add another foot or so? 6.) DC's back seat comfortable enough, however folds inefficiently using too much space. 7.)High bed. This meant rear visibility over high tailgate poor for backing up. I also could barely touch the bed floor reaching over bedside panels. 8.)My final personal nitpick-this thing is one foot too long. Kind of like the Excursion to the Suburban. Just a foot too long for most.

The DC does have the most solid shutting doors of any trucks-much like the older Mercedes cars.

In addition to all my praises of the Titan in my mid November test drive; the Titan has far more innovations, and the drivetrain is silk smooth with the engine & transmission nicely matched.

I think the DC was a natural Toyota evolution, but Toyota was too conservative. Some of my gripes would have been easy to update. I think this will affect their numbers.

'05-'06 is way off for Toyota. Especially if the 3/4 ton proves to be an addition, rather than a replacement of the Tundra DC.

triat

A friend of mine & I were going to hook up with a couple of his buddies for mountainbiking. My friend mentioned to them we would swing by with my truck. He apparently failed to mention to these buddies my truck is a Tundra Access Cab.

You should have seen the look on their faces. It turns out "those buddies" were both also over 6'.

Needless to say, they followed us in their car.

I can't wait till the Titan gets in, sigh.

triat

seriously consider the 3/4ton market? The Tundra's success is partly due to a niche market not needing full size trucks. Secondly a 3/4 ton means a new frame. So unless they discontinue the Tundra older "short" frame series in favor of the Tundra DC lengthened frame, they would be building 3 body sizes & 3 frames. You would have to sell a lot of each just to cover the manufacturing costs!

btw, I think GM is most efficent. Same body/interior parts on all the trucks C1500-C3500(Except CCab),and they just use 2 frames!!

Someone who knows 3/4 ton-sales figures/market help me out here...Is the 3/4 ton market so large, knowing Toyota has to consolidate their offerings, that Toyota could turn a profit in 3/4 market??

oldharry

The HD pickup market is HUGE. Ford sells more Super Duty trucks than F-150's.

Harry

jimbob7216

Yesterday I drove the Titan and F150 crewcab, then the Tundra doublecab. I loved the acceleration of the Titan, and the room, and the seat comfort. I did not like the seatcovers, or the cheap looking plastic materials. It is no doubt a fantastic truck, but I just wonder why Nissan doesn't spend a little more and make the interior first class too. I currently drive an 01 F150 supercab, and will be leasing something else in the next few months. The F150 was nice, with a better quality interior. I had just about ruled out the Tundra, but after I drove it, I loved it.
I have concerns about the build quality of both the Ford and the Nissan, especially since they are new products, which I don't have about Toyota. I found the Tundra to have very nice pickup, with a beautiful interior, and it drove just like a car. I was really surprised, and instead of being last on my list, it is now first. Just my thoughts.

By the way, I am in San Antonio, TX, and the Titan salesman said he had 6 or 8 (which I saw, and drove 2 over 2 days), with 12 more due any day. Supply doesn't seem to be a problem here.

jimbob7216

I forgot to mention that the versions I drove were the Titan SE,the Ford XLT (4.6), and the Tundra SR5.

kurt123

excellent build quality, but I find it strange Toyota didn't up the horsepower/torque to match it's bigger weight/dimensions! Also, why are they only offering this new Tundra in an expensive double-cab model and no access cab? I hope that if Toyota does upgrade the Tundra again for 2005/06, that they'll bring back the access cab version along with the HP/Torque immprovements. Nissan builds quality products too, and so far, it seems the Titan has the edge as far as power,standard equipment, and value for the dollar! Just my opinion.

bowke28

the point of the titan is to bring an import truck with full capabilities to the market. if you want a truck to haul a couple bags of mulch twice a year, then the toy might work...but when you talk about real truck functionality, its a far cry from the rest.

rsholland

Bowke, the Tundra is right in the ball game when it comes to payloads, and the double cab even has a longer bed than the Titan crew cab. The real-world differences between the two vehicles (and the domestics!) are not nearly as great as you suggest.

So the Titan is bigger (not necessarily an advantage in my book), it tows more (although the Tundra will tow anything I might tow), and it has a more powerful engine and 5-speed automatic (that I will grant you).

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/tundra/specs_dcab.html

Your not so subtle innuendos and put downs of the Tundra just don't hold water under close examination. People buying this vehicle know what they're getting, and I have yet to hear from a Tundra owner who's not happy with their truck.

Bob

keanec

I have to agree with you...the DC Tundra has every right to be compared in the same league as the other full sized pickups.

In a direct comparison with all the others, the Tundra DC will match out well in size (dimensions) and handling and other things like that. It will probably be tops in quality, also. There are only really two or three areas where it WILL fall short, performance, seating, and capacities.

Although some will be satisfied with it, as rsholland is, others won't find the engine to have enough power. All other full size trucks offer seating for 6 in thier CCs - the Tundra doesn't, and the GCWR (and towing capacity)are much too low for many people pulling boats and campers and such.

BUT, these are only shortcomings in some peoples minds, and each of the other Full sized trucks has their own list.

The dimensions of the Tundra DC SAY it has earned the right to be called a fullsized! They have just limited the people who will buy it because of those main three areas.

rsholland

And despite my above post, I prefer the Titan over the Tundra, but capability or lack-there-of has nothing to do with it.

I just think the Tundra gets criticized way too often because it doesn't match the dimensions of the other full-size trucks. The 4.7 engine is a fine engine but I do wish it were hooked up to the 5-spead automatic found in the Land Cruiser and V8 4-Runner. Those wishing for a larger Tundra engine will have their wish fulfilled in about a year, in the meantime the 4.7 is fine, IMO.

I also wish it had the Land Cruiser/4-Runner's full-time 4WD available, at least as an option. I also wish the Titan had the auto full-time 4WD found on the Armada. Those who think full-time 4WD has no place on a pickup are wrong IMO. Dodge seems to agree, as the '04 Ram 1500 is now available with full-time 4WD. The Chevy and GMC 1500/2500 (not 2500HD) models have had on-demand full-time 4WD (AutoTrac -- which is similar in function to the Armada's auto 4WD) for several years now.

Question: Do the Titan and Tundra V8s use a timing chain or timing belt?

Bob

keanec

The specs on the Titan list under valve train "silent chain" so I assume they use a chain.

As to the 4wd, I was told by my Nissan Sales Rep that the 4wd in the Titan is the same as the Armada. When you turn the switch to 4wd you can run it on dry or wet pavement (like Auto AWD). Now, he can be wrong and I don't have a Titan owners manual to check, so don't quote me or take it as Gospel.

As to the Tundra - If I was buying a truck in 4 months or a year or so, it would be one of my top two choices - along with the Titan. The only problem now is it still isn't available in Canada, so I can't wait that long as I am walking right now. The only other problem I would have is I tow a 5000lb travel trailer and I would be limited by the GCWR! That would be a deal breaker as I wouldn't want to tow unsafely.

rsholland

The Armada has an extra 4WD mode; I think it's called Auto-4WD, or something like that. Having said that, maybe in Canada it's different?

Bob

keanec

I agree with you 100% I looked at the picture in the Armada's owners manual and the switch is different than the Titan. The Titan doesn't have the Auto position because I remember looking at it. The salesman is totally wrong and I will have to let him know as he is a friend of mine. And he might cause problems on a Titan if somebody listens to him.

Too bad they don't have it - that is a big negative!

triat

in every exterior dimension. It can carry more mulch than any other half ton.

So bowke, other than the fact it's V8 isn't 5+ liters(limited towing); why do you think the Tundra DC doesn't have "real truck functionality", and explain how you think it's a far cry from the rest?

I find the Tundra DC is quite capable. It also has the most vault-like structure, proven reliability, the best quality fit/finish, and
proven resale value.

twinbladesz

Wheel Base . Also according to Autovantage these are the payload and towing ranges for the F150 and the Tundra

Towing / Payload Capacity Ford says F-150 has the highest towing a payload ratings of any 1-ton full-size truck. That is true, but the numbers are only slightly better than Dodge, Chevy, and the new Nissan Titan. Maximum payload is 3000 lb when equipped with the payload package, 2000 lb without the payload package. Towing capacities range from 6000 lb to 9500 lb depending on model.

Towing / Payload Capacity Tundra payload capacities range from 1110 lb on the 4WD SR5 Stepside V8 to 1800 lb on the 2WD SR5 Access Cab V8. Six-cylinder Tundras are rated to tow from 4800-5000 lb; V8s are rated for 6900-7200 lb.

Also of note in their reviews the Double cab gets a 4 for acceleration while the Super Crew gets a 6.

Toyota claims about 8 sec 0-60 mph for a 2WD V8 regular-cab Tundra. Test 4WD Access Cab clocked a respectable 8.8 sec--without a load. We haven't yet tested V6 models, but they're just 10 percent of Tundra sales. Double Cabs are at least 250 lb heavier than comparable Access Cabs, and thus feel sluggish up steep hills and sometimes even in normal traffic.

Did I read that right? Sluggish in normal traffic?

Then again F150 gets this:

Base V8 has modest acceleration, but works well enough for light-duty hauling and commuting. The 5.4 has stronger acceleration and is well-suited to heavy work, but still trails Dodge Hemi V8 for overall power and GM 5.3 V8 in refinement. With base V8, automatic transmission tends to rush upshfts, delay downshifts, frustrating passing response and driving in hilly terrain.

Cant shift to the right gear? LOL

The moral if you get an F150 dont get the 4.6L its as underpowered in the F150 as it is in the Expedition. And the Tundra DC is still underpowered with its added weight until it gets an upgraded engine (coming soon to a Tundra near you)

But wait isnt this the Titan Vs Tundra board how'd that F150 get in here?

triat

It's easy to mix numbers. I think right now the Tundra DC is similar performance/capability to F150 or C1500 with their small V8's.

I also like the tests where they compare brakes. When I carried a full pallet of grass for a coworker in my Tundra, 0-60mph was no issue for the 4.7, power was plentiful. But stopping all that mass in traffic was something I was careful about!

rosey4

I finally test drive the Nissan Titan over the weekend, and came away impressed. The Titan has much more to offer than the Tundra Double Cab does. Much more power of course, but it was roomier on the inside, much more than I anticipated. It has a rear sonar device that lets you know how close to something when backing up. The one I drove was fully loaded, it was an LE with Navagation and a DVD. The Titan is something to really consider. It is a monster truck, an impressive one.

Though I test drove the Tundra Double Cab briefly I knew what to expect. The Tundra is a much more smoother ride than the Titan. I really want the Tundra, but what happens if I eventually need more power? Does anyone know when Toyota plans to build a larger engine? I was told last year it would be soon. Could it be mid-year 2004? Or, will it be next fall? Will it be a 5.5 liter engine?