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I on the other hand LOVE EM!!! They were the deciding factor over Honda (plus a $9000 advantage when you factor in rebates and supplier discount).
None of the Window Stickers for the 2005 GC SE minivans in Dodge dealer inventory listings show a 2005 GC SE with this configuration...nor does Edmunds.
This is a Grand Caravan SE and is not to be confused with the Grand Caravan SE Plus.
I picked up the 3rd storage bin/table combo. I'm a huge camper and table will come in handy, and the bin will protect the hole when I throw firewood etc...in there!
One comment....I thought it was a bit pricey$$$ $250 total, but the table is very well constructed with metal braces etc...
Any other suggestions? What is considered broken in??? Thanks!!!
Go to pages 82-83. They give a detailed recomended way to break in your new engine.
Tuesday February 1, 5:37 pm ET
- DaimlerChrysler minivans continue growth, Dodge Caravan sales up 48.6 percent - Jeep(R) Grand Cherokee posts sales of 906 units, up 73.9 percent - Chrysler Pacifica sets new sales record with 429 units, up 59.5 percent"
"To date, Chrysler Group has sold more than 1.3 million minivans in Canada and over 10 million minivans worldwide. In Canada, DaimlerChrysler continues to be the leader of this segment, with 34.9 percent of the minivan market. Dodge Caravan was the best-selling minivan and second most popular selling vehicle in Canada for 2004."
"Today's announcement reinforces the company's commitment to our minivan heritage and our manufacturing facilities, creating greater flexibility in our product offerings and the way in which they are built every day," stated Frank Ewasyshyn, Chrysler Group Executive Vice President, Manufacturing. "We also show through our actions that supporting our existing plants in urban America is fundamental to achieving our long-term corporate objectives."
Consumer reaction in early market research clinics for the 2005 Chrysler and Dodge minivans was a home run. Prior to launch, Chrysler Group conducted an extensive survey to gauge response to the exclusive Stow 'n Go seating and storage system, comparing it to every competitor in the market. Overall, Stow 'n Go scored six times higher than Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna.
My 2002 T&C LX has much better space under the 2nd row seats for the feet of the 3rd row passengers than the 2005 T&Cs and GC's with Stow and Go. The 50/50 split 3rd row seat is also much more comfortable than the 60/40 split Stow and Go 3rd row...even sitting in the middle over the split.
For me, the seats in the 2nd and 3rd rows of the 2005 Odyssey are more comfortable than those of the 2005 DC minivans while the driver and front passenger seats are equally comfortable.
It appears that DC now offers the GC SE with 60/40 rear Stow and Go while retaining the bench seat 2nd row or traditional, optional 2nd row bucket seats. (Not to be confused with the GC SE Plus that has 2nd and 3rd row Stow and Go). Now DC needs to have the overhead console with compass/outside temperature and trip computer as an option on the GC SE.
you'd have to ask Chrysler
"For me, the seats in the 2nd and 3rd rows of the 2005 Odyssey are more comfortable than those of the 2005 DC minivans while the driver and front passenger seats are equally comfortable"
I think you are right. But I see the Dodge/Chrysler vans a lot different than the Honda and Toyota vans. All three will carry passengers fairly nicely. But I think the Dodge/Chrysler has a lot better advantage of carrying other things that I don't think many would want to put in their Honda/Toyota vans. Such as drywall, 2X4's,plywood, bags of cement, etc. Even if you take the middle seats out of those vans, they're really finished off to nice to want to haul anything more than baseball bats, gloves, socker balls,etc. I think a person really needs to think of all the things he would use his van for, before deciding what kind to get.
I do agree with Marine2 on the interior finish of the DCX vans vs. Japanese. Of all the Minivans out there, DCX's have the cheapest interior. One of the benefits though, I believe the interiors will be easier to keep clean, having reconditioned cars for years in college.
As far as seat comfort in 2nd and 3rd?? Mostly the kids are back there, usually jumping around anyways.
My complaints: I HATE the armrests....a molded piece of hard plastic, that my arm can't rest on for too long!! I'm sure it's a lot cheaper to produce vs. a padded, cloth cover one like in the Japanese version. Is there an aftermarket solution?????
Here in Detroit, I'm hearing the Freestar is dead due to very poor sales. This is what happens when you don't even try to "follow" the competition!! Ford thinks "hey!! lets put a new name on the winstar, update the interior a bit and people will buy em"!!!!
The next Gen DCX Minivans are being designed by Ralph Gilles (of Chrysler 300C fame). They're suppose to be radically different. Knowing Ralph, they will be!!! He once tricked out a DCX minivan for racing with a 300M engine, Viper brakes and wheels etc!!
Nissan tried a radically different van and sales are disappointing. DC has a better track record with styling though (the PT Cruiser for example).
Steve, Host
You can do that in any of the vans,(tarp). Did you move the washer/dryer, refridge in your Dodge? I think I hear you also have a Honda. I can't see hardly anyone putting those in a Honda or Toyota even with a pad down. You would diffently have to take the middle seats out if you did.
Steve, Host
That scares me and would be the clincher for me to buy the Odyssey instead of a Grand Caravan.
I do not like radical styling such as in the new Quest, Pontiac Aztek, Dodge Magnum, oval Taurus, AMC Pacer, AMC Gremlin, etc.
Ford killed the Taurus with a radical styling and DC might do the same to their minivans if they make a radical styling change.
Here's the thing . . . our neighbor works at Chrysler, and the Sales Manager wants us to call him, that he'll match the offer on a Town and Country Touring, same features, as well.
I'd like some advice on whether there is a difference between the cars . . . we thought the SXT was more comfortable. Can anyone comment on there being a difference between the top of the line GC or the middle-tier Chrysler???
Thanks for your time.
I got the rebates and a DCX friend gave me his employee discount.....almost $7k off!!!
I"ve not seen a SXT with wood trim, is this dealer installed? aftermarket??
Thanks!
The Chrysler T&C do have some minor cosmetic features, like nicer gauges; more chrome trim inside and out, body side cladding, and I think also an outside auto-dimming mirror (not sure if the Dodge GC offers that).
2) 21st century engine .... Multivalve etc...
3) No booming exhaust note at 75 mph
4) Higher quality interior
5) Stow 'n Go seats that can be fitted together to form bench.
6) Front windshield defroster BACK!!!
7) Larger glovebox
8) More interior storage bins/boxes. They don't cost a lot if designed into the trim molds initially!!!! DCX will spend $$$$ to have two different front door panels...just use all that $$$ to creat ONE nice panel!!!
Is your # 3 situation caused by the Stow-n-Go feature? My 2002 T&C does not have a booming exhaust noise at any speed (up to 90 MPH...but I normally drive 65-70 MPH on Interstate roads).
I think 2nd row Stow-n-Go is overkill. How many families also own a motorcycle they may need to haul in the T&C/GC when it runs out of gas?
The 2005 Odyssey EX has almost perfect seating arrangements. ( Sienna 2nd row seats and DC Stow-n-Go not comfortable like Odyssey). Just copy the Ody design for 2nd and 3rd row but keep former DC overhead console and trip computer that had the Instant Economy feature. Offer the current 3.3L as base, 3.8L optional, and offer the 5.7 V8 Hemi for a performance minivan.
Personally, I think the less complex OHV engines with more low end torque are preferable to complex, many valve per cylinder, double-triple-or quadruple OHC engines.
I would like to add to the list:
Higher quality interior: plus make the controls illuminated for night driving (which I do a lot). (Includes headlamps controls, switches for power door locks, windows and mirrors, ignition key ring, and cruise control and perhaps audio controls on the steering wheel).
Stability control! - plus all-speed traction control. The current DC vans controls traction only up to 30-35 MPH.
Larger glove box: Plus a light inside. I think that older DC vans (96-00 MY) used to have them.
More interior storage bins: Put a cover on the lower portion of the controls (below the cup holders and climate system) so we can use that useless room for storage.
Bring back all the lights. I mean DUAL liftgate lamps, security lamps on the front doors, DUAL lights on the vanity mirrors with adjustable illumination, and by the way, add a larger mirror on the sun visors, the current one is way too small.
Copy some useful features from other vans. Ford Freestar when you click the "unlock" button on your key fob, the headlamps comes on along with the interior lights, very useful for those dark nights. I also like the "baby sleeping mode" in the Freestar, and so is the little "conversation mirror" which has been copied by Toyota and Honda on their new vans.
I really hope Chrysler understands that they're not the dominating the van market anymore, and they should do something to show the world what they can. With vans, just the look won't do the job as in the 300. of course a good (Hemi?) engine and 5-speed would help a lot, but some other things is necessary to win back all the Honda and Toyota lovers.
In my opinion, the column shifter should be left on the steering column like the current design. It gives much more useful room between the 2 front rows. I don't care about the shifter which i use once before i start driving and don't look at it anymore until the end of the trip. What's your opinion?
Another minor thing bothers me, is the lower part of the windshield (where the registration sticker is placed) is very hard to reach. Whenever I need to change inspection or registration stickers I have a hard time. The bulky speaker makes it very difficult to remove one sticker and replace it with another one. Did you notice that?
DC should have copied the Odyssey seating for 2nd and 3rd row instead of their Stow-N-Go. The Ody 60/40 split 3rd row folds into or out of the floor more nicely than the DC Stow-N-Go and both rows of seats are more comfortable than 2nd and 3rd row SNG.
As far as interior appearance, I feel my 2002 T&C LX interior is just as attractive as the Ody EX-L-Nav-Res although the Ody leather is VERY comfortable. (DC leather is not as supple and soft as Ody leather...but I have cloth and would get a cloth Ody EX).
VERY sad that DC has eliminated too many of the nice features of my lowly LX with their newer minivans. My LX has all of those lights that are so nice. Maybe DC minivans are falling below the competition (Odyssey is the only other minivan I would purchase).
And it's not only me, even Consumer Reports agrees to that. Let me just post you the words from the new April issue I just got from CR:
Chrysler Town & Country:
"...Interior flexibility got a boost with the introduction of the 2005 model, which has optional flat folding second- and third- row seats. This setup forced Chrysler to drop the AWD model. The minivan rides well enough with a light load and handles securely. Interior noise has become more pronounced. The 3.8-liter V6 isn't as smooth, quiet, or fuel-efficient as the engines in the Odyssey and Sienna..."
Dodge Grand Caravan:
...Our tested Grand Caravan was pleasant, but it's falling behind the competition. The optional flat-folding second- and third - row seats improve interior flexibility, but noise levels increased...."
It's not that I trust CR, they are VERY biased as seen in other boards (and I'll give you an example in a minute), but they are otherwise pleased with the DC vans, and always praised the quietness of the DC vans. Now all-of-a-sudden they complain about the increased noise?
BTW, both, Chrysler and Dodge vans are recommended by CR.
Anyway, Hans, the above message is for Chrysler to improve in the NEXT generation minivans (2007?). I know it's too bad they eliminated all the good stuff, but it's kind of too late to cry now, especially that they are still leader in sales (with rentals included, I know, but it doesn't matter). All we want now, Chrysler should take care and try to surpass the competition - if that is possible at all - and copy features and improve in all areas.
The interior of the DC vans is not that bad, but it's dated, too busy, and not clear and simple, it's way more confusing than it should be. I could give you many examples. Also I don't like the white background on the instrument cluster (gauges). True, the creamy light-blue background in the T&C Limited is quite nice, but the one in the LX and Dodge models are not pleasant at all. The Ford Freestar has much more attractive designed interior IMO. I don't like the interior design of the new Odyssey either. But I give them credit for the illuminated window controls - finally the first time for a Honda minivan.
Now a word about the CR April (car) issue. There are several new vehicles out there. Example: the Ford Five Hundred and Freestyle. When CR rates reliability, they need to have at-lease one year of information, so most new models aren't ranked, it just say "NEW", which means it's still too early to rate it. So most new models are rated "NEW". Even though the above models are more than 6 months out there on the market. On the other hand, the new Toyota Avalon, which is less than ONE month old, is already rated for excellent reliability and highly recommended. The same goes for the Honda Odyssey - it's just a few months out on the market, and it is already reliable, recommended, and even a "Best Pick"!
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/06/B01-108426.htm
While Chrysler tries hard to bring stylish designs to their vehicle lineup, they will have a problem with the minivans.
"...The biggest challenge, however, may be a minivan redesign to update its dowdy image without alienating buyers who have made it one of Chrysler's best sellers. Creed has put Chrysler 300 lead designer Ralph Gilles on the job, but still recognizes what he faces.
"We will give people who own minivans," he said, "as much style as we can give them..."
I posted the same thing in the "minivan shopping" board last week.
mrblonde49, "Minivan Shopping" #413, 2 Mar 2005 10:17 am
It does seem a bit biased...
I personally think the DC minivans are THE MOST ATTRACTIVE of any minivan except for the grille of the 2005 T&C that resembles the cheaper Voyager of earlier years. All DC needs to do is copy the better designed seating of the Odyssey, include the nice items formerly standard on DC minivans, and include a 5 speed AT.
CR measurement of interior volume is about as deceptive as the elusive WMD we were told about a couple of years ago.
CR uses an expandable rectangular area that measures the volume using the VOLUME of that inclosed area. In the real world, DC minivans have more cargo space in the area not inclosed within that mythical space that CR measures. When we travel, we can put bags between the middle seats and the sliding doors in the large area that is not included in CR's measurement.